If Colleges outright start asking where did you serve... it's much closer to an obligation than not
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Democratic Presidential Primary |February OT| It Can't be Worse than Iowa, Right? (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
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If Colleges outright start asking where did you serve... it's much closer to an obligation than not
It's created out of a interview where he absolutely refused to rule it out and say "No, we wont be doing a draft Maddow.."
Again, the candidate himself refused to rule it out. Do you know his plans better then himself? If so, can you please tell me the winning lotto numbers next week?
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This. Even if it's not compulsory compulsory, the idea that it would just be a default expectation means it'd be mandatory regardless.
If you're going to make a claim, you should provide the source, because the context of that conversation matters significantly.
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Hah, you know, that's not a bad comparison at all. Pretty much exactly like that, but with college recruiters instead of kids.Reminds me of this propaganda poster...
the problem underlying all of this is the idea that everyone will go to one of these programs and be "changed" the way he (claims he) was. but what if you don't?
what if the bond you get from serving in the military is different from the bond you get if you're sent to montana to be part of the butte beautification brigade or whatever? what if you don't leave feeling "transformed", but instead just feel like you were stuck for a year with people you hate, doing something you don't want to do, and it wasted your time?
the idea that there are like four million valuable, fulfilling jobs that need done in america (and can be done by literally untrained highschoolers) is kind of ridiculous, is it not? people are gonna be picking up trash on the side of the road or something. they can't all be winners.
that's not going to have any sort of effect on "repairing the moral fabric of america" or whatever. count me out.
what if the bond you get from serving in the military is different from the bond you get if you're sent to montana to be part of the butte beautification brigade or whatever? what if you don't leave feeling "transformed", but instead just feel like you were stuck for a year with people you hate, doing something you don't want to do, and it wasted your time?
the idea that there are like four million valuable, fulfilling jobs that need done in america (and can be done by literally untrained highschoolers) is kind of ridiculous, is it not? people are gonna be picking up trash on the side of the road or something. they can't all be winners.
that's not going to have any sort of effect on "repairing the moral fabric of america" or whatever. count me out.
"If not obligatory than certainly a social norm"
"So afterwards it's the first question on your college application or it's the first question when you're being interviewed for a job"
Starts around 3 min
The idea absolutely is to create something where if you don't do it you're at a disadvantage and he clearly doesn't rule out compulsory.
Source has been posted numerous times. The Rachel Maddow interview.
The full interview is 27 minutes, but this 6 minute segment is where he discusses it.
At around 2:40 he starts.
One remarked "... if its civilian OR MILITARY, that its the first question on your college application..." (He specifically says OR MILITARY.. /Point 1)
Another : 4:00 about the draft... Maddow says the easy answer is a draft, but it's one thing the military does not want... Pete says "Well it's one of those idea's that's always liked but never really talked about" in regards to THE DRAFT.
............
No he's talking about the idea of National Service
The issue at and is that he can't commit that his idea won't be a legal mandate... furthermore even if it wasn't he clearly wants it to be a social one which is only better in as much as you won't get fined/go to jail just be judged and perhaps denied jobs/education lol
These national service plans are mostly Iowa bait because Iowans are absolutely crazy about national service.
"Barack Obama calls his years working as a community organizer in Chicago's South Side the best education he ever had. He believes that all students should serve their communities. Studies show that students who participate in service-learning programs do better in school, are more likely to graduate high school and go to college, and are more likely to become active, engaged citizens. Schools that require service as part of the educational experience create improved learning environments and serve as resources for their communities. Obama's plan sets a goal for all students to engage in service, with middle and high school students performing 50 hours of service each year, and college students performing 100 hours of service each year. Under this plan, students would graduate college with as many as 17 weeks of public service experience under their belts."
"Barack Obama calls his years working as a community organizer in Chicago's South Side the best education he ever had. He believes that all students should serve their communities. Studies show that students who participate in service-learning programs do better in school, are more likely to graduate high school and go to college, and are more likely to become active, engaged citizens. Schools that require service as part of the educational experience create improved learning environments and serve as resources for their communities. Obama's plan sets a goal for all students to engage in service, with middle and high school students performing 50 hours of service each year, and college students performing 100 hours of service each year. Under this plan, students would graduate college with as many as 17 weeks of public service experience under their belts."
It's like how you don't literally and legally need a college degree for most entry level jobs in the US, but you'd be fired for suggesting such a thing as a career counselor. For all intents and purposes you need to go to college (or join the military, or do that ROTC/college thing) after high school. Market competition turns even the slightest career advantages into practical minimums. Until you resolve this underlying pressure there can be no true "voluntary" service.
Here's the transcript: http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2019-04-15
It is very clear from the context of the convo it is not envisioning a draft, and the only person who brings up that word is Maddow, who uses it as a jumping off point after noting that the military is downsizing and doesn't actually want a draft because they want less people, not more.
The social aspect Pete talks about here regarding not being exposed to people outside your community (much the same way college affects many) is believed to be a legitimate unintended negative consequence of ending the draft. Absolutely not one that would have been worth keeping the draft around for, of course. There's no need for him to "rule out" a draft when the program he is envisioning absolutely isn't one.
He is talking about mandatory service, either literal or normative, yes. I was not questioning that E.
It is very clear from the context of the convo it is not envisioning a draft, and the only person who brings up that word is Maddow, who uses it as a jumping off point after noting that the military is downsizing and doesn't actually want a draft because they want less people, not more.
The social aspect Pete talks about here regarding not being exposed to people outside your community (much the same way college affects many) is believed to be a legitimate unintended negative consequence of ending the draft. Absolutely not one that would have been worth keeping the draft around for, of course. There's no need for him to "rule out" a draft when the program he is envisioning absolutely isn't one.
His words clearly say he wants it legal.. however Maddow and Pete realize that its a non starter, so at the *least* he wants it to be a social aspect and a "norm" for society to ask that question on college applications and job interviews.
Let's say he does expand the peace corps, etc to 250K. He would only need 3.4 MILLION ( https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372 ) more positions if every child who graduated high school had to volunteer for a year. Roughly 4 *MILLION* volunteer positions would be required. Are you telling me, for half a second, that this would all be peace core jobs? Since it's inception, the peace corp has only had 235K people in it for reference. ( https://files.peacecorps.gov/multimedia/pdf/about/pc_facts.pdf )
This is a joke, and anyone who glances at the numbers knows it. There is no way he could increase volunteer services by millions without factoring in the military taking some of them, which is why he never says that. Because its common sense.
The military literally doesn't want them. They are currently downsizing.
Jobs Guarantee proposals (which are optional) also envision a mass expansion of government employment programs. And those proposals sure as hell aren't putting them in the military.
You people do realize that the military doesn't just "take people in" without there being an adjustment in authorizations to increase end strength and appropriations meant to increase capacity? Every single service member "costs" more than their paycheck. There are benefits, training, moving (PCS) expenses, health care/retirement, living allowances...
Again: the military does not want any random Era poster (unless that poster volunteers), or anyone else who isn't part of an all-volunteer force; and because people are expensive, that's why the services invest more in capital than labor.
This line of argument is simply not realistic.
Increasing the size of the Peace Corps is objectively way less expensive.
In the same way, Biden sucking up all moderate support then collapsing ruined the chances of other moderates earlier like Beto and Booker, both of which were better (especially Booker) and more electable than Buttigieg who's really a novelty candidate who happens to be the only one around at the right point. Bloomberg should have backed Booker or someone else earlier.
Assault weapons ban.
It's easy to name one thing since being anti-gun is his most consistent thing.
Antigay Councilmember Posts Bestiality Photo On Facebook To Protest DOMA Repeal
Are you ready for your daily installment of
www.queerty.com
15 dollar minimum wage, which I just saw on a YouTube commercial.
If he's onboard for it, that's as clear a sign as anything that the party really is moving left overall.
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Maybe let's just nuke all of South Bend to be safe.Antigay Councilmember Posts Bestiality Photo On Facebook To Protest DOMA Repeal
Are you ready for your daily installment of
Antigay Councilmember Posts Bestiality Photo On Facebook To Protest DOMA Repeal
Are you ready for your daily installment of
Oooopps, I googled this guy to see if he was a legit Councilman but I didn't find this. I'll remove the link
You don't read the military times much I take it. The Army usually misses its recruitment goals. They downgraded them four times (maybe three, rusty as its been awhile) and still missed them.
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Manning the military: America’s problem
Conscription using a lottery based system would be a fair, efficient, sustainable, legal and proven alternative to fixing the military's recruiting problem, says the author of this commentary.
www.militarytimes.com
It’s Not the Economy: Why the Army Missed its Recruitment Goals and What to Do About It - Modern War Institute
In 2018 the US Army failed to meet its recruitment goals for the first time since the height of the Iraq war in 2005. Military leaders have attributed that failure […]
mwi.usma.edu
The issue is, the military is doing what use to be against the rules. To quote:
"Over the past 18 years of "endless war," the Pentagon has adopted numerous measures to prop up the AVF. These measures included: repeat deployments that violated long-standing dwell time policies; stop-loss, a "back door draft"; unprecedented enlistment and reenlistment bonuses; lowered enlistment standards; and the use of prescription psychotropic drugs to deal with service members' emotional and psychological stress. "
Stop-Loss is especially one on my list, as both of my brother in laws were extended beyond their date with a new tour in Iraq as a "Thanks buds!".
So again: The military is indeed getting desperate to keep its recruits, extending them by shady legal means, and is looking at ways to increase recruitment to meet their goals. The Army does indeed want people. They need people in fact.
/Edit/ Probably getting off topic a bit.. suffice it to say the candidates own words betray what those who support Pete would like you to believe. The guys a ratfuck. I'll leave it at that ;)
And apparently Sanders would be in the lead if all the mistaken counts were corrected.
This guy is also finding more and more errors in the counts.
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I hope some major media outlet runs this story with the specific numbers. This shit is really unacceptable
Antigay Councilmember Posts Bestiality Photo On Facebook To Protest DOMA Repeal
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Racists to right of me, homophobes to the right
Here I am stuck in the left with you?
And apparently Sanders would be in the lead if all the mistaken counts were corrected.
This guy is also finding more and more errors in the counts.
Taniel (@Taniel) | Twitter
The latest Tweets from Taniel (@Taniel). Daniel Nichanian. crim justice, local elections, voting rights, pol theory. Journalist. Editor, The Appeal: Political Report. Fellow/JusticeCollab. PhD/UChicago
I hope some major media outlet runs this story with the specific numbers. This shit is really unacceptable
I saw someone suggest that more errors are found for Bernie and Buttigieg than for the other candidates, because that's where people are looking, but no matter who benefits, these examples show that the SDE allocation has so many errors it's impossible to use for anything.
The DNC said they wanted to audit everything. Is that still going ahead or did they change their mind after Pete was declared winner?
I do. I'm actually Air Force. There's a huge difference in not meeting recruiting goals (which would correspond to already established authorized end strength numbers) and expanding the force by absorbing millions. That simply isn't happening.
All that said, I'm sorry about your bothers-in-law.
Don't forget building codes! I type from my apartment building whose fire rating was recently updated to "flammable".
Booker never being a front runner meant he was never a main target of attack. He'd have been eaten alive if that'd happened.
And apparently Sanders would be in the lead if all the mistaken counts were corrected.
This guy is also finding more and more errors in the counts.
Taniel (@Taniel) | Twitter
The latest Tweets from Taniel (@Taniel). Daniel Nichanian. crim justice, local elections, voting rights, pol theory. Journalist. Editor, The Appeal: Political Report. Fellow/JusticeCollab. PhD/UChicago
I hope some major media outlet runs this story with the specific numbers. This shit is really unacceptable
Conclusion: Bernie Sanders won Iowa.
Thanks, really sucks.
I'd agree with the statement, it just seems as if he's a military guy who wants to expand the forces, so that's my position. There's another article about him having a map of afghanistan with all the mineral deposits marked out. That... really bugs me. It tells me hes after resources, and needs the military to do it.. which means expanding it.
Source for the curious.
I've only read this page but from the discussion it sounds like some Starship Trooper-esque shit is going down with Buttigiege lmao
There's a lot to go after Pete with, but this is a conspiracy theory.
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It's not quite that bad, but yeah, there's always shades of that in these discussions. Hard to talk about the issue when so much of the language has its roots in bad places.
It's really not a great look - tacky at best, indicative of imperialist fantasies at worst - but I'd point out that if he wanted to engage in that kind of thing he wouldn't need to create a draft. Our armed forces are bloated enough already!
fuck
It's a fact that Pete has the map. Saying something suspicious-looking looks suspicious isn't a conspiracy theory, it's a speculation that it looks sinister, especially in the context of Buttigieg's racism. Please take a second to examine your internalized biases here, recognize that the US is an imperialist nation that has been mired in Afghanistan for 20 years, and that pointing out something like what we're talking about and going "This looks really bad," and stop just dismissing things out-of-hand as a conspiracy theory just to shut the discussion down.
Reading Thomas Piketty is bad now? Oh, the map. I mean, I have a framed case with an Afghan flag in it, which was a deployment keepsake.
There are a host of reasons to clown on Pete, like the fact that he has 1 black supporter (Charlamagne), but having a map isn't one of them. I'm sure any one of us could look at another's bookshelf or knick-knacks and concoct some nefarious narrative.
There are a host of reasons to clown on Pete, like the fact that he has 1 black supporter (Charlamagne), but having a map isn't one of them. I'm sure any one of us could look at another's bookshelf or knick-knacks and concoct some nefarious narrative.
It's the conclusions drawn from the map that makes it a conspiracy theory.
Got my mail ballot today in Florida. Still debating who to give my vote to. Sanders, Biden or Warren. I'd honestly give my vote to Sanders if I wasn't so afraid of trump steamrolling over him in true General with communist adds and socialism scaremongering which I am sure will get to the minds of Americans everywhere. I just don't see a world where he wins which sucks. That and he's 80. He'll probably die two years in if by some miracle he wins. Warren is done i believe and Pete is....well let's just say if it was between Pete and Trump I would rather sit it out and let the world burn. Biden at least had some administration experience. The Democrats need moderates to win this election and Biden can handle that easily. I also believe moderates are the majority of people in the USA. Then again Biden also proposes no new changes. Just the same status quo.
This election is hard goddammit
This election is hard goddammit
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Did you not get the hint when your last idiotic topic on this got closed?
Can you explain what conclusion I drew that makes this a conspiracy theory? Like what is the actual conspiracy I'm espousing aside from "pete, a known racist, has a thing that looks really suspicious at best"
There's a mod in this thread saying the same thing, so are they also espousing conspiracy theories?
You're acting so suspicious of this, but you won't stop for a second and just question whether or not the thing we're actually talking about looks alarming.
Yes. It is dumb if they are doing it. It is dumb that you are doing it.
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