of course! Always kept the same username from like 2000
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Democratic Presidential Primary |February OT| It Can't be Worse than Iowa, Right? (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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of course! Always kept the same username from like 2000
So Pete was right claiming victory last night!! Ride that train Pete, next stop New Hampshire..
Hah that's amazing. You and I got into a few stupid console debates back in the day back when the community was a lot smaller. Glad you're still around :)
PLEOs seem like just a way to get more elected party officials participating as delegates, beyond superdelegates. They just happen to be pledged.
Sure, but for delegate allocation purposes it makes way more sense to just combine them with the regular at-large delegates.
I'm really not sure how Bernie fans can spin this as some kind of victory for Bernie in any way. He failed to win Iowa (again) and had about 1/2 of his vote share from 2016. He has clearly LOST support and not brought in any new supporters and somehow he is supposed to cruise his way to the nomination from here? Yes, he''ll probably win NH (though there's practically home state advantage there for him), but remember with the Dem's proportional system he needs to consolidate the vote to pick up 50+% of delegates. He has not shown any sign of being able to hit that number, and by the time Super Tuesday is through about 1/3 of delegates will be gone already.
Unless Biden turns it around or Pete somehow consolidates the center, I think we're heading for a brokered convention which I can guarantee Bernie would not be chosen in as he's basically the definition of not a compromise candidate.
Unless Biden turns it around or Pete somehow consolidates the center, I think we're heading for a brokered convention which I can guarantee Bernie would not be chosen in as he's basically the definition of not a compromise candidate.
Talk about a strawman, everybody is better than Trump. Doesn't mean that one Democratic nominee isn't better than the other.
Absolutely.
Because there are other much better candidates.
He has 0% of the vote from anyone who isnt white. He cant win. Thats not even mentioning the multitude of reasons hes a shithead.
Vote Bernie
Defeat Trump
It's because his biggest obstacle to the nomination, Biden, was just weakened considerably.
His policies would represent objectively the most progressive/social democratic agenda since LBJ and certainly veers to the left of Obama. He's a talented politician and he'd be a good president, and his win would be an incredible advancement for the LGBTQ+ movement in the US and around the world. Even his likely victory here in Iowa represents a major historical milestone and yet we have people on this board literally calling him a fascist and spinning conspiracy theories about him stealing the election (which Trump is already promoting as well).
he wont win. even biden has a higher chance moving forward that pete does atm
Lol yep it's just as simple as 'knowing how it works'. Galaxy brain take.
I wonder what percent of Bernies 2016 support was for him versus just being against Hillary. I voted for him then, but i think there's better choices this time around.
They're against him because he can't beat Trump. He can smile for the camera and get votes from white folks, but he can't secure the black vote and doesn't have the populist momentum of Bernie or Trump.
I mean, it's not ideal, but Biden did terribly and if he continues to underperform his polling then that opens a path for Sanders. Pete polls so poorly with non-white voters that a win in Iowa means very little for him outside of a boost in NH (likely at Biden's expense).
He'll lose to Trump. It cannot be overstated how bad his favorables with black and Latino voters are.
Bernie has more votes yet Pete is beating him.
This is fucking ridiculous. The whole system is so stupid. I'm not even just saying it cuz I support Sanders — no matter who this happened too, I'd be pissed off. It's 2020, how can we still be doing things so backward and inefficiently? Ik it's not THAT big of a deal but it's just so frustrating
This is fucking ridiculous. The whole system is so stupid. I'm not even just saying it cuz I support Sanders — no matter who this happened too, I'd be pissed off. It's 2020, how can we still be doing things so backward and inefficiently? Ik it's not THAT big of a deal but it's just so frustrating
This is a self-fulfilling prophecy - Biden has objectively been the worst candidate of all of them on racial justice issues (huge drug warrior, mandatory minimums, busing, etc.) and yet he has the highest black support. General Election numbers at this point mean little, and if Pete can somehow win the nomination that means that he will have already started to pick up black support which would only be even further consolidated once Obama and everyone else endorses the eventual nominee. It's worth noting that Obama is a huge Pete fan - he even wrote in a New Yorker article that he saw Pete as one of the future stars of the party. If he's out stumping for Pete I think those numbers turn around quickly, and if the left doesn't stay home then there is some real crossover potential for him among independents and moderate Republicans.
You think black and Latino voters will seriously vote for Trump over Pete? Again, Biden has been worse on every actual issue facing those communities.
Knew this nonsense would come...
2016 was a 3 (really 2) person race.
The result is a great one for Sanders because it weakened his #1 opponent.
The rules are the rules. At least there is some preferential voting with the realignments, and apart from a few coin flips (which don't make sense when one candidate was ahead, should just be rounded) it's proportional at each place.
The weighting is the real problem, but again was a known thing.
you only have to look at him barely beating trump if not getting destroyed by him in almost every hypothetical matchup poll to be concerned. this says nothing of the reputational damage he has and will continue to experience because of the persistent thrashing from hugely disproportionally influential portions of the young american left. pete would be fucked
it really did didnt it. fucking america
The problem isn't necessarily that black voters will vote for Trump, as much as it is that they won't vote for Buttigieg. Buttigieg earning the support of effectively 0% black support does not bode well for him. And he's also trailing Trump head to head, nationally. For comparison, Hillary lead Trump by about as much prior to the election.
Buttigieg isn't a good bet.
They just won't vote. Pete isn't entitled to their votes, he has to earn it. Not being Trump isn't enough of an argument. Clinton, for example, underperformed with Latino voters compared to Obama in 2012. Pete would be much much worse.
While not entiled, everyone (all people) should know that not voting = vote for Trump and they should feel ashamed.
i hear you but duh. its a little tired how often the response to the empirical reality that some candidates inspire less excitement is 'well it shouldn't be like that'. it is. you cant count on everyone being this high-information, utilitarian voter. voting in america is annoying as fuck and people are more likely to turn out for someone that gets them fired up thats just how it is
And yet his immigration policy and racial justice policies are far more comprehensive than anything Hillary or Obama ever proposed.
Anyone who thinks the choice of Pete vs. Trump is worth staying home for will get what they deserve. That would be the clearest choice of this century.
Shaming people like this doesn't work if they don't like either candidate.
Yeah that is true and a sad state politics are in, where media presence and popularity is more important then actual policies.
What's more likely:
Well off white people over 30 voting for Sanders
Old people vote for sanders
Black people vote for Buttigieg
I think a reality we have to face is: well off (not wealthy) moderate white democrats might prefer voting for trump vs voting for Sanders. They're white. They have nothing to lose.
Well off white people over 30 voting for Sanders
Old people vote for sanders
Black people vote for Buttigieg
I think a reality we have to face is: well off (not wealthy) moderate white democrats might prefer voting for trump vs voting for Sanders. They're white. They have nothing to lose.
Honestly, I take back saying it's not that big of a deal. Shit like this is the reason we got fucking Bush and Trump
No, but they are adults that have to take consequence for their actions. So in this case everyone that stays at home and not vote is enablers of the current Republican lead goverment.
EDIT: But they should feel ashamed still.
It's true. He does clear the lowest possible bar imaginable.
Lol tell that to people who have been routinely fucked over by both sides forever.
You seem like youre not able to even imagine the amount of ambivilence one can have in this scenario.
It is what is. If we nominate someone with poor unfavorables with black and Latino voters then we're gonna get a depressed turnout of black and Latino voters. Which is why Bernie and Biden and Warren are all better candidates.
Shame historically is not a motivator to get people to vote. You want them to vote, gotta give them a reason.
So why are we calling out people here when they say they wont vote if it isn't X candidate? Why is this different?
And it must be better that to help other groups that get help while mine might not get help.
If not 4 more years of Trump isn't a motivator, I am not sure what.
Who is suggesting we should shame people to get them to vote?
I think Buttigieg's campaign making this argument in a primary would driven his numbers with black and Latino voters below zero lol
Nominate Pete and you'll not only kill black turnout, but you'd be looking at the GOP's dream scenario- 15-20% of black voters break for Trump. It would be an absolute disaster. We aren't turning out for Pete, I'm sorry. If you are going to go with that centrist lane it'll probably have to be Biden in order to be viable among minority voters.
These people have been living under their version of Trump for decades
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