You're not wrong but a lot of people including a lot of the people in those studies don't see a problem.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Democratic Presidential Primary |February OT| It Can't be Worse than Iowa, Right? (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
- Start date
- Status
Again, those statistics can be true, and those same workers can believe their economic situation is good or not have economic issues as one of their leading problems.
It doesn't matter if the economy "fucking sucks" for anyone who isn't already rich, if the people who aren't rich don't believe the economy "fucking sucks."
If you paid attention to the movement for even a modicum of time, you'd know the campaign slogan is "Not me, us". There is a reason for that - this movement doesn't rely on a single politician. It relies on the millions of disenfranchised working class voters who want to do anything in their power to help change the world for the better. Sanders is the rallying candidate for these ideals, yes, but he isn't the be-all end-all.
Again, I'm not going to vote for Biden in the primary, but Biden wants to spend trillions on climate change mitigation, raise taxes on the rich, further expand the ACA with a public option, and do tons of other actually good things. It may not be as far as you want, but this idea that Joe Biden is running on a centrist platform is actually false.
Every single candidate running this year, including Bloomberg, is further to the left than Barack Obama's campaign was in 2012.
Compare the political landscape now to when he first decided to run in 2016. Back then he was barely a blip on the radar and his ideas sounded impossible. Now here we are in 2020 and there is a growing movement supporting those ideas. There were even lots of people back then saying that "America isn't ready" or "he's too socialist", yet his support continues to grow and these ideas are becoming more popular. These are solid results and we'll continue to see more in the future.
Rhetoric matters. Warren cushions a lot of her policies by saying stuff like 'I have no beef with billionaire'. Sanders is an active advocate for class warfare. Even if their presidencies are effectively identical, Sanders agitates for radical change in a way Warren is not comfortable with. Bernie has helped introduce socialist parlance into the mainstream, and that is already a notable shift in the Overton window regardless of what he would actually do as president.
A lot of those people are still doing better than they were 5 years ago. They may not be accumulating wealth, but they're more likely to be able to pay their bills on time. I know I personally am doing a lot better than I was 5 years ago, despite Trumps policies being a net negative for the industry I work in.
If Biden has a better climate change plan than Sanders, he's done a poor job of expressing it. Most of the shit he says is that he's not Trump, that we need to unite and return to the normalcy of Obama. That's been the thrust of his entire campaign.
He also told rich donors that "nothing would fundamentally change", and that "I need you very badly".
Maybe. But if there was widespread support for his proposals he wouldn't be fighting at ~25-30% with Joe Biden in this primary. He'd be crushing it. But he's not really. He's doing well enough in the polls, but he still has a more challenging path to victory than someone like Biden does.
A lot of these ideas still hit the wall when it comes to politically possible. How does Sanders get a majority of his bills through the Senate, especially if he cannot carry downballot candidates to take the Senate back? If Sanders takes office in 2021 with a Republican senate, it's going to be 4 miserable years that kill any progress he made—If I'm being honest.
Rhetoric does matter.
It's why doing things like cutting an ad based on the endorsement of a racist, transphobic, homophobic birther conspiracist such as Joe Rogan moves the needle against Sanders for some people. No Sanders didn't say those things himself, but playing footise with figures like Rogan (or Cenk Uygur) definitely matters.
Yeah, sanders winning would be a proof of concept for future change, and removing an obstacle to change. By itself it might change the same material things as Warren winning would but Warren is planning for that to be the end, not the beginning.
Not familiar with how it is in the US, but here in the UK there are always putting out rather misleading stats about how good employment is, when zero hour contracts and the gig economy has mushroomed, , contracts are shorter, rent in many cities has increased far quicker than increases in wages, and long term financial prospects for many people, including owning a house and having a decent pension, are much less rosey than they were for their parents. But sure purchasing power means you can get more tat for your buck than ever before. I think unitary economic narratives are often too simplistic...things like the 'economy is doing great'. I always ask, for whom? What does the disaggregated data show when it is resolved to a decent level of detail?
It sets off my ocd that this list is neither sorted alphabetically or preferably by totals. So:
Sanders 9
Warren 6
Buttigieg 5
Biden 4
Ah much better!
Sorry, what results has Bernie gotten??? Certainly you don't mean in Congress, or in the midterm elections.
I'm not saying Biden's plan is better than Bernie's. However, it is better than any Democrat's climate change plan outside of Hillary & Bernie in 2016, and frankly, any actual climate change plan that passes will look closer to Biden's plan than Sander's.
Putting that aside - yes, Biden is doing that, because that's how elections work, or at least how they've worked for decades before this.
When George W. Bush ran for President in 2000, he didn't say, "I'm going to massively cut taxes for the rich, put Dick Cheney in charge of foreign policy, try to lessen abortion access, etc." No, Bush ran on restoring honor to the White House, not getting involved in nation building, giving the middle class a tax cut, protecting Social Security with a lockbox, and the bi-partisan education & Medicare drug bills he wanted to pass. You run on the stuff that's popular to the median voter, then while in office, you pass those things, along with some things that your base wants that hope doesn't piss off the median voter too badly.
I think 2016 broke people's brains in understanding how the vast majority of political campaigns are actually won.
My point is that I don't trust Biden to actually push for progressive change. His actions and rhetoric don't suggest that those are things that are meaningful to him.
There's a difference between how the economy is actually doing and how people believe it is doing. The current system is unsustainable and stacked against the working class, but they don't feel it's so dire, so they're less likely to support dramatic structural change.
Uhh, isn't Cedar Rapids pretty large? Why are there only 24 people voting?
...? I don't think you can back up that claim. Plus Biden recently said that 'no scientists actually agree a Green New Deal can work', which is garbage...
Just saw the Iowa poll on here. I think Sanders could win, but it's not a guarantee based on how the system works. I'm cautiously optimistic. Though I'm not looking forward to hot takes from people who don't understand how the caucus works, Sanders supporters included.
The destigmatization of the idea of socialism is a momentous shift unseen since almost literally a century ago when the first Red Scare in the 1920s began to destroy the socialist movement in the US. Class struggle is back on the table in a way nobody thought was possible. The youth are becoming increasingly radicalized. The Squad exists. The platforms of the other Democrats are all essentially based around what Sanders wants.
The 2016 Sanders campaign was the catalyst that brought together the disparate elements that had been bubbling underneath and caused it to explode into the public consciousness.
The quote-unquote real ones start tonight, these are for folks that have to work at night or whatever
It exploded into a net total of like 4 congress seats out of like 20 attempted...
Yeah for sure. They may even have grievances but their attention is often deflected from the genuine causes of those.
BSWB5964 is clearly some sort of code DeVeaux is transmitting to a deep state sleeper agent.
Getting support, popularizing ideas and establishing a growing movement. I really don't know how anyone can say he hasn't gotten results. Compare that to your standard Democratic Party strategy, which resulted in Trump being elected and apathetic youth.
It's a satellite caucus you have to qualify for (ie, you work the night shift).
A good start, with the most exciting new House members too.
Senator Coons, Sinema, etc. aren't voting for Bernie's climate plan. Period.
The truth is - an argument for Bernie should focus on foreign policy and EO's, not legislative policy, because Sinema, Coons, Hickenlooper, and Manchin will determine policy, not Sanders or even Pelosi.
There is stil
These are great moral victories, but to call these results isn't accurate at all.
Yup
But not really when compared to the biggest weight destroying this country: the far right. They've had like what, 20 percent of the whole country at minimum for the last 60 years?
For every AOC there's like 6 Steve Kings and Matt Gaetz
like 11 pm. go out and live your life and check the news in the morning, unless you're in Iowa then you should probs go to the caucus?
imo if he wanted to downplay the socialist movement he's point out that all of the elected "socialists" are literally just liberals
You are correct about that last part for sure. Sounds like we need to elect people who don't think Republicans are suddenly going to "wake up" once Trump is out of office and actually see them for what they are.
My goal is to talk
This is the democratic primary thread not the socialist OT.
The party isn't socialist yet.
I just want y'all to see some sprinkles of reality before Bernie has to go up against trump and the 40 percenthardcore republicans.
As we all know, converting a few deep blue states from people who vote the right way 95% of the time to people who vote 100% of the time is more important than actually winning swing seats that determine who holds the House majority.
It's not downplaying - it's accurately explaining their actual successes in the real world, as opposed to Twitter. The vast majority of people who actually won in 2018 weren't socialists, but rather center-left moderates that a lot of people in this forum would think should run as Republican's because they don't believe in the revolution.
they don't start until 7pm CST tonight.
Campaigns could release 1st round totals given their organization (Sanders campaign will know the 1st round votes as they come in by precinct due to the captains at each one reporting to the mother ship, for instance).
Then there's re-alignment, then reporting.
So probably more like 9-10pm CST? Though entrance polls will be out quickly on CNN etc.
So lots of data flowing from that 7pm CST window
Again, the rhetoric we've seen from his campaign thus far is that the only real important goal is defeating Trump and returning to the normalcy of Obama. Almost all of his rhetoric suggests centrism and that he's not seriously interested in progressive goals.
Socialists are aware of the long and hard fight ahead of us, we know the reality. That is why we are hoping for a Bernie presidency so the tide can shift and the party can start being pushed further left. And if it doesn't happen, we keep pushing.
Lol
Port Charlotte seems to be made up exclusively of old white people. You'd think that'd favor Biden.
Port Charlotte seems to be made up exclusively of old white people. You'd think that'd favor Biden.
Again, I'm really not sure how you could say these aren't results. Shifting public opinion and getting these ideas in the spotlight, causing many in the party to adopt them are results. If Bernie ends up winning the nomination it will be further proof.
- Status