• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

DiscoShark

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
479
So then they care more about policy than they do about Trump/not Trump.
If you care about policy then Trump vs. Not Trump should be an extremely potent motivator. It feels like I'm rehashing 2016 again where the contingent of online Bernie or Busters conveniently forget that judicial appointment exists or that Mitch McConnel is going to axe every policy proposal you put forward regardless of whether you're progressive or moderate.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,944
A few days ago someone posted about their life being shit on here and the response from someone was a clip of Citations Needed with a recent PhD in anthropology talking about how the world is not incrementally improving and people like Steven Pinker are wrong.
That was me and they are 100% correct on that too. It's not for feeling good about anything, it's reminding us that we are being lied to about the state of the world, the rich are donating what amounts to pennies so they can write it off on their taxes and boast about how much they're helping, and that the people who make statistics about poverty are manipulating the numbers to generate "improvements" out of thin air. The narrative of this whole thing is a sham to help the book careers of Pinker and people like him because optimism sells.

You should also listen to that episode and understand how wrong you are.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,852
The narrative being spun this morning on Politico is Bernie will either win because his supporters are rabble who will disrupt their polite process or something is going haywire in Iowa which we can discard.
 
Dec 12, 2017
4,652
If you care about policy then Trump vs. Not Trump should be an extremely potent motivator. It feels like I'm rehashing 2016 again where the contingent of online Bernie or Busters conveniently forget that judicial appointment exists or that Mitch McConnel is going to axe every policy proposal you put forward regardless of whether you're progressive or moderate.
It's a sore spot, but because of the latter, if Bernie gets elected, you'll suddenly see his supporters realize that incrementalism is ok sometimes.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,944
It's a sore spot, but because of the latter, if Bernie gets elected, you'll suddenly see his supporters realize that incrementalism is ok sometimes.
You should pursue your most ambitious goals with total balls-out reckless abandon, and accept whatever progress you can make. Sometimes it's only a little, sometimes it's a lot. That's what the republicans do and it works extremely well. You shouldn't make piddly incremental changes your main goal because you're trying to be "realistic."

I want Bernie to sign so many executive orders on day one that the right wing guys go back to a 90's level of black helicopter paranoia. That's a strategy for a fucking winner.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,852
It's a sore spot, but because of the latter, if Bernie gets elected, you'll suddenly see his supporters realize that incrementalism is ok sometimes.
Incrementalism will not be enough for his supporters or the movements that are planning on being there on day 1 to pressure and push for real reform.

Sanders won't take his mobilized grass roots groups behind the shed. They will keep him and everyone else on their toes.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,141
Can't believe this all starts tomorrow night. Could be a long next 3 months. I'm stunned that Bernie is at 20% in a new South Carolina poll, he might do better in the southern super Tuesday states than I thought. Same poll said freaking Steyer was 3rd at 18%.... so I dunno about that.


Super Tuesday states:

Alabama - Biden
American Samoa - Bernie
Arkansas - Biden
California - Bernie
Colorado - Bernie
Democrats Abroad - Bernie
Maine - Bernie
Massachusetts - Warren?
Minnesota - Bernie
North Carolina - Biden
Oklahoma - Bernie
Tennessee - Bernie
Texas - Biden
Utah - Bernie
Vermont - Bernie
Virginia - Biden

I guess it all depends on if Klobuchar, Pete, Yange, etc are still in the race. Also, Bloomberg being around takes away from Biden's vote? As Pete and Klobuchar exit the race, how do you think their voters will split? I think when Klobuchar leaves, Warren will get a 5 point bump.

Also, to anyone thinking the GOP would some how be on good behavior with Biden, they won't. They won't do jack shit. At least with Warren or Bernie in office you have someone that will continously be vocal on policy and principles that our country should have.
 
Dec 12, 2017
4,652
Incrementalism will not be enough for his supporters or the movements that are planning on being there on day 1 to pressure and push for real reform.

Sanders won't take his mobilized grass roots groups behind the shed. They will keep him and everyone else on their toes.
True but with Mitch McConnell as Senate Majority Leader?? Good luck.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,722
If you care about policy then Trump vs. Not Trump should be an extremely potent motivator. It feels like I'm rehashing 2016 again where the contingent of online Bernie or Busters conveniently forget that judicial appointment exists or that Mitch McConnel is going to axe every policy proposal you put forward regardless of whether you're progressive or moderate.

I hope that the eventual candidate will actually push more on flipping the Senate than the actual presidency. The Senate is what really matters here, as well as keeping the House, obviously.

It did come up during basically every debate except CNN's, so it's not like the candidates are not aware that they really, really, really NEED that Senate flip more than anything else.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
All I can say is that since Bernie or Busters didn't meaningfully impact the 2016 election in any way, I wouldn't lose sleep over them now. Just like I wouldn't worry about the KHive's effect on the 2020 stage lol

Enough stayed home to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted 3rd party to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted for Trump to change the outcome of the election.

You're taking the truth statement "It was a pretty normal rate of bleed from a primary to a general" and then going four miles further for some reason.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,944
Enough stayed home to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted 3rd party to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted for Trump to change the outcome of the election.

You're taking the "It is a pretty normal rate of bleed from a primary to a general" and then going four miles further for some reason.
You really think it was all because of Bernie Bros?
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Enough stayed home to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted 3rd party to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted for Trump to change the outcome of the election.

You're taking the "It is a pretty normal rate of bleed from a primary to a general" and then going four miles further for some reason.
I wouldn't blame those voters.
 

Mr.Awesome

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
3,077
The right, even Trump himself, seems to be actively campaigning for Bernie to be the nominee. I dont like that.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
The first vote hasn't been cast please chill the fuck out. Let this shit play out and we'll probably end up analyzing how fucked up the primary process is regardless of who wins what state. Don't forget we have two billionaires (One a fucking republican) buying their way into debates now.
You do realize Steyer has qualified by virtue of meeting the previous requirements like everyone else?

You do realize even before he ran he has been spending a ton of money to organize an impeach Trump movement in the west coast within 3 months after he got into office?
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,912
Also, to anyone thinking the GOP would some how be on good behavior with Biden, they won't. They won't do jack shit. At least with Warren or Bernie in office you have someone that will continously be vocal on policy and principles that our country should have.
Please vote for someone who will have a frown on their face as 45% of the populace ensures their policies will not be enacted.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Enough stayed home to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted 3rd party to change the outcome of the election. Enough voted for Trump to change the outcome of the election.

You're taking the truth statement "It was a pretty normal rate of bleed from a primary to a general" and then going four miles further for some reason.
By this logic we should be equally as concerned about Hilary voters. Hell 13% of Obama voters went Trump.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
You really think it was all because of Bernie Bros?
I wouldn't blame those voters.

I don't blame them all that much, but don't make up statements out of the ether like "it didn't change the outcome of the election". It did. It did.

By this logic we should be equally as concerned about Hilary voters. Hell 13% of Obama voters went Trump.

What logic? What statement did I make that you are even trying to criticize?

He said something wrong. I corrected him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,559
How things play out online and offline with politics is surprising. Hot 97s The Breakfast Club has been interviewing candidates all last year, with Charlemagne tha God asking each one what their agenda for Black America is. Fast forward to this year and Charlemagne endorses.... Mayor Pete?? Lol why? How do you get to that conclusion? I feel like we read up on so much shit online that the tv media doesn't touch.

That's disappointing, it's going to come back to haunt them. The old heads should listen to our Black millenials with the Bernie support. "They say the child shall lead..."
They'll just hit us with the "Children should be seen, not heard" :/

I don't get how people want to go back to the quo, it's feels like mainly privileged people want that.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,944
Yeah if you think Trump is playing any kind of 5D chess you are ascribing the same power to him that the Qanon people do. The man is in deep cognitive decline, he can't think minutes ahead, much less months.
 
Last edited:

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
All I can say is that since Bernie or Busters didn't meaningfully impact the 2016 election in any way, I wouldn't lose sleep over them now. Just like I wouldn't worry about the KHive's effect on the 2020 stage lol

I don't think it's about losing sleep over the danger, it's about what the repeated threats reveal about the people who are ostensibly members of our party, and their callousness towards human life.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
yes, when the supreme court is ideologically stacked in your favor you can get away with a lot!

The Supreme Court is just as happy to strike down legislation as executive orders, so the difference there is still not that important. No matter what happens, a GOP president will be able to dismantle a lot of things, assuming the GOP Supreme Court allows any of them to take effect. If we want meaningful change, we need to do things rapidly, things that the American people will protest about rather than allow to be taken away. In this proto-fascist state, the age of procedural power is mostly over.
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
Please vote for someone who will have a frown on their face as 45% of the populace ensures their policies will not be enacted.

Or vote for someone who will actually call out the capitalistic interests that stand in the way of popular, necessary policy proposals, and potentially radicalize or activate more of the populace by supporting labor and other forms of organization that can compromise the smooth functioning of the state and extract concessions.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184

Jordan117

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,994
Alabammy
Take this with a small planetoid of salt, but this dude on Twitter who accurately leaked three previous DMR polls says multiple sources have told him Mike Cernovich's leak is real:



 

b-dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
How are they going to give back student debt? Or legalize marijuana? Or roll back environmental regulations? They would get destroyed for doing that


Keeping it where it is and then having it taken away are two different things tho.
Have you not been paying attention to what Trump has been doing? He's been rolling back environmental regulations on an almost daily basis.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
It's fun to see people saying "the GOP couldn't possibly deal with the political consequences of making marijuana illegal" in a country where the GOP built concentration camps where people are dying.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
my guy, trump has been rolling back environmental regulations on the regular.
Have you not been paying attention to what Trump has been doing? He's been rolling back environmental regulations on an almost daily basis.
Look at my follow up. There is a distinct difference between maintaining the status quo and then giving those things to people for 4-8 years and then taking it away again. Why do you think despite having control of every branch of government the GoP didn't get the votes to roll back the ACA?
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
The Supreme Court is just as happy to strike down legislation as executive orders, so the difference there is still not that important. No matter what happens, a GOP president will be able to dismantle a lot of things, assuming the GOP Supreme Court allows any of them to take effect. If we want meaningful change, we need to do things rapidly, things that the American people will protest about rather than allow to be taken away. In this proto-fascist state, the age of procedural power is mostly over.

The Court's less likely to strike down legislation. They had that chance with the Affordable Care Act.

I agree that it's important to create implicit or explicit political stakes to that, like the courts reversing the ACA would have had a big impact for them, but the issue with executive orders is the next GOP president, because then any reversals are simply the consequence of an election instead of the system striking against the democratic will.

The only path out of this is a Democratic trifecta, and grinding out more gains while you continue to fight at every level to bring change in the states and pare away the GOP's support.
 

b-dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Look at my follow up. There is a distinct difference between maintaining the status quo and then giving those things to people for 4-8 years and then taking it away again. Why do you think despite having control of every branch of government the GoP didn't get the votes to roll back the ACA?
The only reason they didn't was that McCain decided decorum and procedure were more important. That's literally the only reason I'm not in endless medical debt right now. They were literally one vote away, that's it. Let's not act like they never tried or got super close.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
How are they going to give back student debt? Or legalize marijuana? Or roll back environmental regulations? They would get destroyed for doing that


Keeping it where it is and then having it taken away are two different things tho.

They took away current student debt relief methods via basically gutting the Public Service Relief method and it didn't generate a sea-change. Nor would the change of federal marijuana restrictions given the hands-off method the Feds have had with state legalization. States that have it illegal would still have it illegal. And they're rolling back environmental regulations all the time and nobody cares.

Executive changes are written on sand, washed away by the next change of the tide. Sanders could definitely help some people for a few years, but that would be all without the Senate.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
I think completely reversing something like Medicare for all or college debt forgiveness would be a lot harder because it's something even rich people would care about.

Like you'd probably have to sign up for health insurance again and figure all that out yeah
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Medicare for All would probably be irreversible because it outlaws private insurance, which means the formerly existing infrastructure would be swept away and have to be rebuilt. You'd have to pass it very early in the term so that you have time to go to the Supreme Court a couple of times.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
The only reason they didn't was that McCain decided decorum and procedure were more important. That's literally the only reason I'm not in endless medical debt right now. They were literally one vote away, that's it. Let's not act like they never tried or got super close.
And people like Collins who knew they'd lose their seat if they fucked people over. I can't imagine the blowback they would get for giving all students back their student debt, or criminalizing weed again. I didn't act like they didn't get close. But acting like taking away these things after having them for 4-8 years is the same thing as maintaining the status quo is silly. Beyond silly.

They took away current student debt relief methods via basically gutting the Public Service Relief method and it didn't generate a sea-change. Nor would the change of federal marijuana restrictions given the hands-off method the Feds have had with state legalization. States that have it illegal would still have it illegal. And they're rolling back environmental regulations all the time and nobody cares.

Executive changes are written on sand, washed away by the next change of the tide. Sanders could definitely help some people for a few years, but that would be all without the Senate.
Taking away several options vs outright forgiveness is a world of difference and they would outright lose any election with a candidate suggesting they were going to give it back. Same with marijuana. Public opinion on it has shifted so much and I can't imagine what it would look like after 8 years of being legal. Environmental protections are the only onces I could see the general population not getting up in arms over.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.