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Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
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Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406
Isn't that a phrase, like he got way too high up there, further than he should have, and is now coming crashing down

Right, but in the context of your post it kinda seemed like you were saying it was a thing happening to him because he was just too ambitious, so I'm trying to ascertain your opinion on Buttigieg and why he came crashing down. Do you feel he's similar to Klobuchar, who you also referenced?
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Like I could tell you something about every single candidate except for Klobuchar. And I've been following this campaign since the beginning
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
Right, but in the context of your post it kinda seemed like you were saying it was a thing happening to him because he was just too ambitious, so I'm trying to ascertain your opinion on Buttigieg and why he came crashing down. Do you feel he's similar to Klobuchar, who you also referenced?
Pete's crashing down cause he doesn't have a good answer for the decisions he made as major with minorities in south bend, and it's come to the forefront because he is flirting with frontrunner status now.
he's similar to Klobuchar in that they're both competing for that 55 percent of moderate democrats
 

Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406
Pete's crashing down cause he doesn't have a good answer for the decisions he made as major with minorities in south bend, and it's come to the forefront because he is flirting with frontrunner status now.
he's similar to Klobuchar in that they're both competing for that 55 percent of moderate democrats

Ok, that's good at least. I was really hoping you weren't going to apply the same "I can think of nothing he did wrong" you did with Klobuchar, but I wanted to make sure.

Now, that said, "he didn't have a good answer for his record" is DRAMATICALLY downplaying the extraordinary racism of Pete Buttigieg, and the way he contributed to further entrenching systemic racism in his town during his tenure as mayor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,103
Konoha
I don't know if any of this is legit but why are people who work or worked as a paid Buttigieg orgnizer hired as the "voter protection director". I don't think people are trying to cheat/steal the election however this doesn't help right off Iowa. Even if she left the campaign the optics look bad. It's kinda hard to have unity when people make it easy for bad actors/grifters to create fake conspiracies.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
I don't know if any of this is legit but why are people who work or worked as a paid Buttigieg orgnizer hired as the "voter protection director". I don't think people are trying to cheat/steal the election however this doesn't help right off Iowa. Even if she left the campaign the optics look bad.

It definitely looks bad, but that doesn't mean anything. if anything the Iowa fiasco gave that person relative work experience for that new job haha
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,750
Norman, OK
I don't know if any of this is legit but why are people who work or worked as a paid Buttigieg orgnizer hired as the "voter protection director". I don't think people are trying to cheat/steal the election however this doesn't help right off Iowa. Even if she left the campaign the optics look bad. It's kinda hard to have unity when people make it easy for bad actors/grifters to create fake conspiracies.


The people that work on the various campaigns jump all over the place constantly. You're basically signing up for a never-ending series of short term jobs. Nothing to see here.
 

Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406
It definitely looks bad, but that doesn't mean anything. if anything the Iowa fiasco gave that person relative work experience for that new job haha

It does mean something if these things keep happening frequently and in quick succession, because at the very least it creates the perception of corruption and impropriety, and the electorate's perception of corruption in the apparatus by which they elect can be just as damning as actual impropriety. There's a point at which negligence, gross incompetence, and poor optics are indistinguishable from actual malicious wrongdoing.

I work in journalism and went to school for journalism, and something that has always been made abundantly clear to me is that even if no actual conflict of interest is present in the reporting, even the perception of there being one can be harmful to the integrity of the story. Reputation matters, and right now there are a lot of reputations that are on fire.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,103
Konoha
The people that work on the various campaigns jump all over the place constantly. You're basically signing up for a never-ending series of short term jobs. Nothing to see here.
That's why i said the optics look bad right off Iowa not that there is any thing specifically malicious going on because Iowa gave Buttigieg media coverage he didn't deserve and added more to the disunity of the democratic party.
It does mean something if these things keep happening frequently and in quick succession, because at the very least it creates the perception of corruption and impropriety, and the electorate's perception of corruption in the apparatus by which they elect can be just as damning as actual impropriety. There's a point at which negligence, gross incompetence, and poor optics are indistinguishable from actual malicious wrongdoing.

I work in journalism and went to school for journalism, and something that has always been made abundantly clear to me is that even if no actual conflict of interest is present in the reporting, even the perception of there being one can be harmful to the integrity of the story. Reputation matters, and right now there are a lot of reputations that are on fire.
Pretty much this ^^ Like others said the gross incompetence and negligence is just as bad as any actual malicious intent.
 

Starmud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,443
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Allegations of Abuse
If you think any of these candidates are all puppy dogs and rainbows to their assistants and staff your optimism is a little bit delusional.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
I don't know if any of this is legit but why are people who work or worked as a paid Buttigieg orgnizer hired as the "voter protection director". I don't think people are trying to cheat/steal the election however this doesn't help right off Iowa. Even if she left the campaign the optics look bad. It's kinda hard to have unity when people make it easy for bad actors/grifters to create fake conspiracies.


Yeah she had to lock her online accounts, because stupid people are probably harassing her now because they think she's part of some grand conspiracy because they're idiots.

Talking about the "optics" of this makes no sense to me because this is a low level job, probably temporary, at a regional political party, this isn't something that should even normally be publicly discussed except in this case it is because people are extremely online acting like conspiracy theorists.
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
If you think any of these candidates are all puppy dogs and rainbows to their assistants and staff your optimism is a little bit delusional.
There is a wife fucking gap between "puppy dog and rainbows" and throwing a fucking stapler at your employee. My worst ever boss never did that, and I can't even imagine that person doing something like that. Maybe I'd like to hold the fucking President of the United States to a standard at least as high as my worst boss.
 

Prodigal Son

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,791
It definitely looks bad, but that doesn't mean anything. if anything the Iowa fiasco gave that person relative work experience for that new job haha
the problem for me is that its bad enough that it looks bad. it is itself gross incompetence that they keep making hiring decisions like this given the obvious distrust and conspiracy it foments
 
Sep 24, 2019
1,840
So how long will Deval Patrick, Michael Bennet, Tulsi Gabbard and Tom Steyer continue their campaign?
Until March?

I feel like there are way too many people.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,976


Come on Pete we know thats what you meant but a few days after you said black people in your district were locked up more due to drugs and gangs? Jesus I'm still cringing


he is quick as fuck on his feet, I'll give that. The balls to joke and say "African American money?" in that room to try ease any potential tension from his fuck up.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
If Klobuchar manages to surge to 2nd in NH, she may well become a force if she can keep momentum, curious to see how it pans out.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
There was nobody else in the whole country qualified for the position. Nothing to see here.

People who work at political parties are likely very involved in politics, they likely have attended rallies and given money to specific candidates in this race. Should these people be disqualified from jobs at regional political parties? What about people who tweet and argue with people online about political candidates? What about people who are spouses or good friends/hang out with any of the above? If your answer is yes, then we've eliminated almost anyone who would work these jobs.

The truth is that some level of conflict of interest exists for everyone involved in the running of elections. However, by creating strong rules, regulations, checks and norms you can stop people involved in running elections from cheating. That's why former party operatives working the 2020 election aren't going to be mass chucking away votes from the opposition.
Therefore, to me, unless there's a specific broken rule that you're found, or an actual opportunity for wrongdoing, then simply saying X may have a conflict of interest doesn't really mean anything, because almost everyone has that same conflict in some way.

Maybe your answer is that your answer is that you don't believe these rules and regulations work for elections anymore because of Iowa. This makes no sense to me. Iowa was a shitshow, however, despite all the conspiracy theories, it wasn't someone deliberately trying to rig an election. There's literally no evidence for this type of thing happening.

Maybe people are worried more about the visibility of potential impropriety in this case, however this is the problem with conspiracy theories, there will always be something to scrutinize. Looking at out of context loose connections between people can't be treated in this way.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
And what I will say is that baselessly tweeting out a private citizen's LinkedIn page and implying that they're going to be some secret agent acting to rig an election is a really fucked up thing to do to a person.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,125
Sydney
The thing I'm interested about with Nevada is if we see a bunch of errors in how delegates are tabulated similar to Iowa.

One of the things people have brought up is that we are sort of suspecting caucuses have always been massively wrong, and now we are only figuring it out since raw vote totals are being published so people can see how the sausage is made.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,711
United States
I think it's misdirected to be worried about employees who've worked for campaigns in the past. If you can't hire someone who has worked in politics before, who can you hire? Would it really be better to only ever hire somebody with zero experience working for political campaigns just to keep up appearances?

People get new jobs in their field in every industry. It also seems like it would be impossible to hire somebody with no political affiliations whatsoever in, you know, politics.

I guess at best it would make sense not to hire people who worked on active campaigns but I dunno. I can't bring myself to be bothered by it.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
I think it's good that more attention is being payed to behind the scenes stuff. We need more transparency.
 

Other

Member
Oct 28, 2017
152
The thing I'm interested about with Nevada is if we see a bunch of errors in how delegates are tabulated similar to Iowa.

One of the things people have brought up is that we are sort of suspecting caucuses have always been massively wrong, and now we are only figuring it out since raw vote totals are being published so people can see how the sausage is made.
I really liked this part from the NYT article on the subject
On a conference call with the campaigns later that night, Mr. Price struggled to explain the information blackout. He said the problems stemmed from party officials having to collect three sets of data from all precincts for the first time.
"You always had to calculate these numbers, all we're asking is that you report them for the first time," Jeff Weaver, Mr. Sanders's closest adviser, said he told Mr. Price on the call. "If you haven't been calculating these numbers all along, it's been a fraud for 100 years."
Mr. Price ended the call.
www.nytimes.com

How the Iowa Caucuses Became an Epic Fiasco for Democrats (Published 2020)

The problems that beset the Democratic Party’s first state caucus of the presidential race ran far deeper and wider than one bad app.
Every result is now suspect, did Obama really beat Hillary in 08? Did Hillary really outdo Bernie in 16? Has there ever not been a finger on the scale? We'll never know but hopefully this brings an end to caucuses and ushers in a sane system such as instant run-off secret ballots or similar(fat chance)
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,125
Sydney
I really liked this part from the NYT article on the subject

www.nytimes.com

How the Iowa Caucuses Became an Epic Fiasco for Democrats (Published 2020)

The problems that beset the Democratic Party’s first state caucus of the presidential race ran far deeper and wider than one bad app.
Every result is now suspect, did Obama really beat Hillary in 08? Did Hillary really outdo Bernie in 16? Has there ever not been a finger on the scale? We'll never know but hopefully this brings an end to caucuses and ushers in a sane system such as instant run-off secret ballots or similar(fat chance)

Yeah that's a really interesting exchange, because as Weaver points out, if you haven't ALWAYS been collecting that info, what the fuck has been going on all this time.

Whoever ends up running the DNC next, because I think Perez is fucked now, should just strip Iowa of their first in the nation status and tell them if they don't move to a primary then they vote in June or something.

Nevada should face similar pressure to but given they haven't fucked up (yet) they might have more wriggle room.
 

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
If you think any of these candidates are all puppy dogs and rainbows to their assistants and staff your optimism is a little bit delusional.

If they're all so bad, why does Klobuchar have the highest staff turnover rate in the senate? Even if all the other senators are bad bosses by most standards, she seems to be uniquely terrible.

And what I will say is that baselessly tweeting out a private citizen's LinkedIn page and implying that they're going to be some secret agent acting to rig an election is a really fucked up thing to do to a person.

Agreed.
 
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