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Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,111
You liberals that paint rural america with such a broad brush are part of the problem. Yes, Trump's base is partly racists, another part is people that have been completely abandoned by Democratic party for far too long, and Bernie's message will resonate with them.

There are good people outside cities.
Hi, I live in rural America and have worked in low-paying jobs my entire adult life. WWC people around here fucking hate socialism and anything approaching it. They also tend to be racist as fuck, just a little more sly about it whenever I'm in earshot.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
You liberals that paint rural america with such a broad brush are part of the problem. Yes, Trump's base is partly racists, another part is people that have been completely abandoned by Democratic party for far too long, and Bernie's message will resonate with them. There are also a significant number of NON-WHITE people in rural america that have been traditionally non-voting.

There are good people outside cities.
So these people felt abandoned by democrats who were trying to help them and instead flocked to trump who just blamed NON-WHITES for all their problems.
um I don't get what your point is
 

supra

Member
Oct 30, 2017
339
Hi, I live in rural America and have worked in low-paying jobs my entire adult life. WWC people around here fucking hate socialism and anything approaching it. They also tend to be racist as fuck, just a little more sly about it whenever I'm in earshot.
www.thenation.com

Sanders Surged in Iowa on a Wave of New Voters

Sanders closed the gap with votes from college campuses, mosques, and union halls, where newly organized and energized voters had his back.

Cool anecdote, I didn't say the racists didn't exist.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,386

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
www.thenation.com

Sanders Surged in Iowa on a Wave of New Voters

Sanders closed the gap with votes from college campuses, mosques, and union halls, where newly organized and energized voters had his back.

Cool anecdote, I didn't say the racists didn't exist.
image.php


Big wave right there.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
You liberals that paint rural america with such a broad brush are part of the problem. Yes, Trump's base is partly racists, another part is people that have been completely abandoned by Democratic party for far too long, and Bernie's message will resonate with them. There are also a significant number of NON-WHITE people in rural america that have been traditionally non-voting.

There are good people outside cities.
When those people say "they've been abandoned by the Democratic party for far too long", what they mean is "The democrats abandoned us when they backed Civil rights". Period.

This economic anxiety crap you're trying to sell is complete bull.
So these people felt abandoned by democrats who were trying to help them and instead flocked to trump who just blamed NON-WHITES for all their problems.
um I don't get what your point is
They were abandoned by Democrats because Democrats abandoned their support of Jim Crow.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,111
www.thenation.com

Sanders Surged in Iowa on a Wave of New Voters

Sanders closed the gap with votes from college campuses, mosques, and union halls, where newly organized and energized voters had his back.

Cool anecdote, I didn't say the racists didn't exist.
Your own article posits that Sanders's success in Iowa is attributed to immigrants and college students who might not even had the opportunity to vote before. I turned off my ad-block for that.
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Longview
When those people say "they've been abandoned by the Democratic party for far too long", what they mean is "The democrats abandoned us when they backed Civil rights". Period.

This economic anxiety crap you're trying to sell is complete bull.

They were abandoned by Democrats because Democrats abandoned their support of Jim Crow.

As a disabled person who lives below the poverty line and has voted straight D since I turned 18 in 2001 - I absolutely feel abandoned by the Democratic party and I am tired of how many of you here look down on the poor and lower classes. It's pretty disgusting the way you get away with just painting everyone below you as stupid racists.

I am tired of it. There are huge amounts of people who are abandoned and do not vote or think it's pointless because of people like you.

I'm out of the Democrats if Sanders or Warren isn't the the nominee. I'm not going to back your shit anymore and people who don't give a fuck about me.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
My head is spinning from the Iowa circus. Unfortunate that Sanders still doesn't have the most SDEs and that they won't fix all the errors, but hopefully we can just get rid of damn caucuses altogether.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
As a disabled person who lives below the poverty line and has voted straight D since I turned 18 in 2001 - I absolutely feel abandoned by the Democratic party and I am tired of how many of you here look down on the poor and lower classes. It's pretty disgusting the way you get away with just painting everyone below you as stupid racists.

I am tired of it. There are huge amounts of people who are abandoned and do not vote or think it's pointless because of people like you.

I'm out of the Democrats if Sanders or Warren isn't the the nominee. I'm not going to back your shit anymore and people who don't give a fuck about me.
How are republicans gonna make your position better?
 

Deleted member 11046

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
942
As a disabled person who lives below the poverty line and has voted straight D since I turned 18 in 2001 - I absolutely feel abandoned by the Democratic party and I am tired of how many of you here look down on the poor and lower classes. It's pretty disgusting the way you get away with just painting everyone below you as stupid racists.

I am tired of it. There are huge amounts of people who are abandoned and do not vote or think it's pointless because of people like you.

I'm out of the Democrats if Sanders or Warren isn't the the nominee. I'm not going to back your shit anymore and people who don't give a fuck about me.
How do you feel abandoned, Sean?
 

medinaria

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,536
image.php


Big wave right there.

pithy analysis of data turns out to be deeply wrong, news at 11

the problem with saying "well there's lower turnout, therefore sanders did not deliver on his promise" is that bernie sanders isn't responsible for driving turnout to other candidates - it's not his job to make sure that joe biden voters get out and vote for people he's running against

what we know from the iowa entrance polls (which are hardly optimal data, but are the best we have) is this:

Tq5MiVF.png


of those people that did turn out, more of them voted for sanders than anyone else. what this means is that sanders did better turning out first-time voters than every other candidate. in fact, it is not at all a stretch to point out that he was third - almost fourth - among repeat caucus attendees. in other words, the reason bernie sanders won the popular vote in iowa is, quite literally, because he got first-time voters to show up.

perhaps the problem is that biden got beat out with first-time voters by andrew fucking yang, but what do I know, I just look at numbers and see what they actually mean
 

Zeroro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,406
How are republicans gonna make your position better?
They didn't say they're voting for a Republican. They said they're not going to support a party that they feel pretends to care about them without actually doing anything meaningful. Don't see an issue with that. Democrats are not obligated to get votes just because they're not Republicans.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,096
Sydney
People can just not vote, which is why the "you should see the other guy" strategy fails so often in electing a President.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
User banned (1 week): ignoring the staff post with regards to hostility
If you can read this piece and still believe that the the Democrats "abandoned Rural voters", congratulations. You've fallen hook line and sinker for the big whitewashed lie those people having been selling the same way they talk about "States Rights" and "Deficit Reduction" being important to them.
As a disabled person who lives below the poverty line and has voted straight D since I turned 18 in 2001 - I absolutely feel abandoned by the Democratic party and I am tired of how many of you here look down on the poor and lower classes. It's pretty disgusting the way you get away with just painting everyone below you as stupid racists.

I am tired of it. There are huge amounts of people who are abandoned and do not vote or think it's pointless because of people like you.

I'm out of the Democrats if Sanders or Warren isn't the the nominee. I'm not going to back your shit anymore and people who don't give a fuck about me.
I look down on anyone who goes "The guy who is putting kids in cages, instituting muslim bans, etc. isn't worth voting against", yes. For good reason.

You say you feel abandoned, but then you go and say you're going to abandon others in need of help. I fucking hate Sanders but if he's the nom I'll go vote for him while wanting to vomit. Because I'm not a fucking asshole.
 

Deleted member 7572

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,041
Economic anxiety exists, those people just don't vote from what I've seen. They're too busy working and worrying about how they're going to make rent to go to the polls.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
Acknowledging that people voting for conservatives in red states and the republican party are animated by socially conservative animus isn't looking down on them. Note, poor poc in red states aren't mass voting for republicans, poor white people are. That says something.

To me, the really condescending thing is to hear people continually ignore these people when the signal both implicitly and explicitly why they vote for who they vote for.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
As a disabled person who lives below the poverty line and has voted straight D since I turned 18 in 2001 - I absolutely feel abandoned by the Democratic party and I am tired of how many of you here look down on the poor and lower classes. It's pretty disgusting the way you get away with just painting everyone below you as stupid racists.

I am tired of it. There are huge amounts of people who are abandoned and do not vote or think it's pointless because of people like you.

I'm out of the Democrats if Sanders or Warren isn't the the nominee. I'm not going to back your shit anymore and people who don't give a fuck about me.
In what ways have you felt abandoned? The only Democrat President we've had since 2001 was Obama and the ACA made things better for you, if it had any effect at all, I assume? And pretty much all Dems have platforms emphasizing healthcare and social safety nets, even the most moderate like Biden. I really don't understand

Acknowledging that people voting for conservatives in red states and the republican party are animated by socially conservative animus isn't looking down on them. Note, poor poc in red states aren't mass voting for republicans, poor white people are. That says something.

To me, the really condescending thing is to hear people continually ignore these people when the signal both implicitly and explicitly why they vote for who they vote for.
Bingo. This is always brushed aside. There's a reason people refer to the WWC and not just the WC, because it quite literally is only the case with white voters in that group
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
I'm not voting for them either. It's not one or the other. It's - I'm out and done with *you*.

Taking a vote away from Democrats makes it easier for Republicans to win, so not really helping yourself. The Republican wet dream is to slash all social safety nets and kill Medicaid, which I imagine would make your life worse. I'm sorry you feel frustrated with Democrats but I promise you of the 2 major politics parties they're the only one that at least gives a little bit of a shit about disabled people. Republicans literally do not care if all disabled people die, that's how they view government support for people with disabilities.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Economic anxiety exists, those people just don't vote from what I've seen. They're too busy working and worrying about how they're going to make rent to go to the polls.
And those people generally do vote Dem, and if they're in rural areas and/or red states that are GOP dominated, they have less incentive to vote because of the lack of a Presidential Popular Vote.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,710
United States
Because I'm not a fucking asshole.

Take a breath, dude.

Take issue with the perspective all you want, plenty do and plenty will, but it's really disrespectful to call a self-described poor disabled person a "fucking asshole" for only wanting to vote for two of the candidates on the field right now. They're not some cushy privileged voter unaffected by policy who only wants to vote for their favorites. People in disadvantaged positions who feel forsaken by the same system they're obligated to participate in are not "fucking assholes." They're the people who need change the most. Attacking them like this is really insulting. Plenty of people are asking them why they feel this way without treating them like garbage.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Not if you live in a state where the governor refused to expand Medicaid.
But those are Democratic governors, which again brings up my question of why does that poster feel like the Democratic Party abandoned them? Not to mention Dems are the only ones who seem to care about election security and combating disenfranchisement and voter intimidation, which only further deafens the voices of people in Red states.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Take a breath, dude.

Take issue with the perspective all you want, plenty do and plenty will, but it's really disrespectful to call a self-described poor disabled person a "fucking asshole" for only wanting to vote for two of the candidates on the field right now. They're not some cushy privileged voter disaffected by policy who only wants to vote for their favorites. People in disadvantaged positions who feel forsaken by the same system they're obligated to participate in are not "fucking assholes." They're the people who need change the most. Attacking them like this is really insulting. Plenty of people are asking them why they feel this way without treating them like garbage.
If you go looking at Trump and go "oh thats fine to give half a vote to", I don't need to hear an explanation. Not in 2020 after it's clear what the consequences will be. Deliberate inaction in the face of horror and terror says it all.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
You say you feel abandoned, but then you go and say you're going to abandon others in need of help.

Come on, man, you're perfectly willing to abandon people when you think the tradeoff is worth it. You've made it pretty clear in multiple threads that you're A-OK with the decline of rural America because the majority of them are Republicans. You said we should let the minimum wage go up because it would hurt them and they're so dumb that they're already hurting themselves anyway lol

The argument against a 15+ min wage in 2016 (and for a smaller, $12-13 one) was that it would significantly hurt rural areas.

Post-2016, the idea that we should care when they voted in Trump who went and actively destroyed farming economics is...harder to justify on a cost/benefit ratio.

www.resetera.com

Amazon to pay all staff at least $15 per hour

Yeah fuck those people that flip burgers, they don't deserve to have a living wage! They should just get better jobs so you don't get burgers! Yeah! Bootstraps!
 
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cDNA

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
You liberals that paint rural america with such a broad brush are part of the problem. Yes, Trump's base is partly racists, another part is people that have been completely abandoned by Democratic party for far too long, and Bernie's message will resonate with them. There are also a significant number of NON-WHITE people in rural america that have been traditionally non-voting.

There are good people outside cities.
I agree we should not attack rural people, but Bernie did pretty bad in rural Iowa he got most of the delegate from the cities and University towns.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,959
As a disabled person who lives below the poverty line and has voted straight D since I turned 18 in 2001 - I absolutely feel abandoned by the Democratic party and I am tired of how many of you here look down on the poor and lower classes. It's pretty disgusting the way you get away with just painting everyone below you as stupid racists.

I am tired of it. There are huge amounts of people who are abandoned and do not vote or think it's pointless because of people like you.

I'm out of the Democrats if Sanders or Warren isn't the the nominee. I'm not going to back your shit anymore and people who don't give a fuck about me.

I honestly empathize with your position, I want you to know that.

But how, on earth, do you imagine it will help not voting for them when the inverse reality of the Republicans winning is even more disdainful to your position?

I also hope Sanders or Warren are the nominee, as do most of this forum methinks?

I just don't see removing a vote from the Democrats as being helpful, although I can understand and appreciate the emotions you're feeling that are driving your logic here [honestly].
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,357
I'm not voting for them either. It's not one or the other. It's - I'm out and done with *you*.

I'm also disabled and below the poverty line. One party works to help our circumstances and the other works to take away the services and programs that we rely on to survive. Your hostility against the party that works to protect people like us is frankly ridiculous.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
There will never be a perfect candidate that solves all your problems.
you can't skip voting because candidates arent perfect..
Maybe vote for candidates that aren't trying to worsen your situation? And by doing that you make sure the better party is in power?
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,514
Earth
If anyone is having second thoughts on voting a specific party due to how ERA or how specific posters on ERA speak about others, do not worry.

People on ERA are not reflective of the overall Democratic voter at all in the US.

It's always been a thing here that's bothered me. Always felt like if you lived in a certain area of the country you are painted with a broad brush before anyone even asked you to tell them about yourself.
 

cDNA

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
I have been feeling very bad with this primary, now I think all the candidates have serious issues that could affect them in November :(
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
If you can read this piece and still believe that the the Democrats "abandoned Rural voters", congratulations. You've fallen hook line and sinker for the big whitewashed lie those people having been selling the same way they talk about "States Rights" and "Deficit Reduction" being important to them.

I look down on anyone who goes "The guy who is putting kids in cages, instituting muslim bans, etc. isn't worth voting against", yes. For good reason.

You say you feel abandoned, but then you go and say you're going to abandon others in need of help. I fucking hate Sanders but if he's the nom I'll go vote for him while wanting to vomit. Because I'm not a fucking asshole.
I'll never understand this blind hatred for a guy who simply wants to help people. Absolutely bizarre
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
while Hillary still won poorer people overall, with lower class voters Trump made up a huge margin from 2012-2016. It was a massive swing.

The reality is we have to get some of those numbers back and if we do better with lower class voters it should eat into the rural margins. Sanders seems to be good at communicating he's not out of touch with lower class people.

There's some overlap in Romney-Clinton in how they were perceived. Both came off as out of touch, born into the political class wealthy people. Bernie's entire shtick is doing everything he can to make sure he isn't perceived that way and I think that might help.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
There will never be a perfect candidate that solves all your problems.
you can't skip voting because candidates arent perfect..
Maybe vote for candidates that aren't trying to worsen your situation? And by doing that you make sure the better party is in power?

No candidate is perfect, but let's avoid the purity test argument. If you're on SSI/SSDI and struggling to make ends meet, or a low-wage union worker who has seen the last three Democratic administrations fail to protect your right to organize, or a black single mother weighing the tradeoff between getting a job and losing HUD housing assistance, are you really going to be enthused about voting for someone who "won't make things worse"? Stop browbeating disadvantaged people and give them something to vote for.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,641
There will never be a perfect candidate that solves all your problems.
you can't skip voting because candidates arent perfect..
Maybe vote for candidates that aren't trying to worsen your situation? And by doing that you make sure the better party is in power?
The problem with this is that you get perpetually stuck in an alternating cycle when you play within the constraints of the rules and the current system. Ultimately, the increasing concentration of wealth - and the general unwillingness of the two parties to address this, albeit the Democrats are admittedly better at this - is what's contributing to people either tuning out of politics for good or just wanting to tear down the system. That anger can be misdirected, as we saw in 2016, but it can also be used for good when harnessed by someone like Bernie or Warren.

You should never settle for the bare minimum that's being offered.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
No candidate is perfect, but let's avoid the purity test argument. If you're on SSI/SSDI and struggling to make ends meet, or a low-wage union worker who has seen the last three Democratic administrations fail to protect your right to organize, or a black single mother weighing the tradeoff between getting a job and losing HUD housing assistance, are you really going to be enthused about voting for someone who "won't make things worse"? Stop browbeating disadvantaged people and give them something to vote for.
But the alternative is letting those who are RUNNING on making it worse win

simple as this: Democrats win more,it means they have to appease less to the historically winning republicans.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,852


Really hopeful for a decisive victory for Sanders in NH.

Also the rumor from here about Sanders jumping ahead in a national poll is amazing news.

We're going to do it this time.
 
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