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Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
I'm not painting all Bernie supporters with the same brush, I'm having a discussion here regarding the people here who do it. And Cenk gave Sanders cover for his endorsement withdrawal by saying he wasn't accepting endorsements. In his statement, Sanders acknowledged that people had a problem with it, but didn't take any responsibility for the endorsement in the first place. Decisions like that gave me a lot of pause, which is why it was reassuring to see him take responsibility for his bad vote and when I heard AOC was taking him to task over the Rogan misstep. I'm a lot less worried about Sanders and his inner circle than I was when the Cenk endorsement happened.

Okay, but you started this conversation with a hypothetical:

"It's going to be interesting to see people change their minds on SuperPACs [...]"

"People" is a generic descriptor. Nobody here can have a conversation with "people." This is a vague, generic grouping that doesn't tell us anything meaningful. You say "people will change their mind [in this hypothetical situation]" and that's not a conversation, that's a statement you're making implying a judgment of them.

It's the difference between this, and starting the conversation with:

"Would anyone here disappointed that Warren changed her stance on Super PACs feel the same if they endorsed the Democrat candidate in the general election?"

This is a much less judgmental question and opens the floor for discussion. I don't say this to be mean or jump all over you. I'm trying to explain why your original post comes off as casting judgment and implicitly calling "people" hypocrites. The view that Warren flip flopped on her stance on Super PACs in the primary, and that is disappointing or worthy of criticism, is not necessarily the same as "we don't want Super PACs at all in the general." Individual supporters can have different views on this. That's a conversation worth having. It's also not a conversation with actual specific posters, not "people."
 

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
9,434
I'm not painting all Bernie supporters with the same brush, I'm having a discussion here regarding the people here who do it. And Cenk gave Sanders cover for his endorsement withdrawal by saying he wasn't accepting endorsements. In his statement, Sanders acknowledged that people had a problem with it, but didn't take any responsibility for the endorsement in the first place. Decisions like that gave me a lot of pause, which is why it was reassuring to see him take responsibility for his bad vote and when I heard AOC was taking him to task over the Rogan misstep. I'm a lot less worried about Sanders and his inner circle than I was when the Cenk endorsement happened.
I think the point was no one knows who you're talking about when you say "the people here who do it". Also I can't say that you're wrong for being bothered by the Cenk and Rogan stuff. I would just say that I'm not sure endorsing and then not endorsing Cenk, and convincing a pseudo-libertarian fuckboy like Rogan to vote for him without even needing to change his morals are issues worth being worried about. Especially in the context of other candidates' problems and the consistency of Sanders' campaign on the actual policies we'd potentially get if he became president.

I think trying to setup a hypothetical about the eventual hypocrisy of some unknowable people who are going to actively defend Sanders doing a thing he hasn't done yet is also pretty useless and silly.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
I think trying to setup a hypothetical about the eventual hypocrisy of some unknowable people who are going to actively defend Sanders doing a thing he hasn't done yet is also pretty useless and silly.

Fair enough. I shouldn't take my frustration out in a way that frames a future unknowable as an absolute. I apologize.
 

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
9,434
Fair enough. I shouldn't take my frustration out in a way that frames a future unknowable as an absolute. I apologize.
FWIW I find myself doing stuff like that all the time. Or I'll read something dumb someone said on Twitter, or see an incredibly bizarre take on Era and I'll think about it later and find a reason to go off about this thing that's almost definitely prevalent somewhere but ultimately doesn't matter and not something I can actually prove. I try to pump the brakes even if I'm 99% sure it's a real thing.

Also just to be clear I'm not trying to use this post to imply you should act a certain way. Just wanted to share genuine life experience that I think may be relatable. Politics is an easy topic to get heated in. Anyway, just thought I'd put that out there as a brief moment of pause in this tense thread. And I do agree everyone should be held accountable. I think most people here probably agree.
 

Mike Works

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,775
Sorry for the lateness: what was the personal info tweet related to Warren that got people up in a roar? I don't want the actual personal info, just context on what happened.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
I mean, is this a road Sanders supporters really want to go down?
apnews.com

Shadow group provides Sanders super PAC support he scorns

WASHINGTON (AP) — Bernie Sanders says he doesn’t want a super PAC. Instead, he has Our Revolution, a nonprofit political organization he founded that functions much the same as one.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At least we know who donated to Warren supporting SuperPACs
Our Revolution has not given money to Sanders. Our Revolution doesn't have to disclose donors, but does so anyways. It's made up of small donations. It's not a superpac. The others are Sunrise Movement's pac, and Dream Defenders Fight pac.

None have spent nearly the same amount of money as that.


So of course it's a road that's welcomed. You won't win the argument.
 

daschysta

Member
Mar 24, 2019
893
I mean, is this a road Sanders supporters really want to go down?
apnews.com

Shadow group provides Sanders super PAC support he scorns

WASHINGTON (AP) — Bernie Sanders says he doesn’t want a super PAC. Instead, he has Our Revolution, a nonprofit political organization he founded that functions much the same as one.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At least we know who donated to Warren supporting SuperPACs
We actually don't Persist PAC has refused to list their donors until I believe March 30th. We do know it's treasurer is a shill for the fossil fuel industry.
 

hidys

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,794
Ranked choice voting lead to significantly more moderate candidates getting elected. Now you may say that's a good thing but it would mean more Joe Manchins and Susan Collins in the Senate and leftists having a decreased influence within the Democratic Party. Now you may say it's still worth it to decrease partisan polarization in the US but there are tradeoffs.
I don't give a shit what it leads to.
It's a far more democratic way of choosing a candidate.
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,608
I still think Biden wins by 5 points tomorrow but that's not much.

I feel like the DNC is going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by screwing Bernie at the convention and all the Bernie supporters are going to stay home in Nov just to kill the DNC.
 

Uncle at Nintendo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Jan 3, 2018
8,598
My guesses (hopes) now that Biden is back as the big challenger to Bernie saving this country from hellworld:

Biden will be non-viable in these ST states:
CA
CO
MN
MA
UT
ME
VT

He will win:

AR
TN
AL

50/50:
TX (leaning loss)
OK(leaning loss)
VA(leaning win)
NC (leaning win)
 

hailvera

Member
Sep 4, 2019
86
I'm predicting a Biden victory in SC by between 5-8 percent. Definitely not by the margin that he needs going into Super Tuesday, but enough that we'll get bombarded with several op-eds about how Biden's comeback starts now and that Bernie's momentum is dead.
 

hidys

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,794
I'm thinking Biden 10-15. Though I do hope it's less. That Data for Progress poll was less than that and despite having a b/c rating on 538 have been pretty good this race so far.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
From the comments section of that comic:

"hes a U.s.a politician, imo scummy always has his hand out for money dureing election years, and even when hes not running for election he has his hands reaching for our tax$ a notoriuous spender "

wat

I'm fluent in dipshit, I can translate. "Why doesn't this site's comments section let me embed the Happy Merchant image?"
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
I'd be very surprised if it's not a double digit lead for Biden. I think he could get as far as, like, 20 points, honestly - all the variables are in his favor.
 

kickz

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,395
c50.gif


Come on SC, vote Berns

UBycQ.jpg


YearlyPastelAnole-size_restricted.gif
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
It'll be about 10 pts, give or take, for Biden in SC. I don't think it'll do much to change how things lean in other states -- I actually think current models like we see at 538 are basically already operating at an assumed win for Biden at this point (I don't see how else we went from a 1 in 2 odds for Bernie to the 1 in 3 we see, that's a large drop). It is true that NC has been teetering, and TX as well.

I feel like if you're on the Bernie train -- and goddamnit, I am -- the best outcome right now is a high single-digit win from Biden.
 

Bad_Boy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Yeah i really think sc is a lost cause. Theres so many trumpers out there. And biden is way more moderate than bernie.

Im betting double digits above the bern man. Unfortunately.
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
I'm gonna be bullish and say Joe by 25 tomorrow. The stars are aligning for him and I think the Steyer numbers are going to drop as a result. He's very very lucky Bloomberg isn't on the ballot

If Bernie really only gets 10-15% of the black vote tomorrow than that kind of Biden win is totally possible.
 

carlos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
429
Ugh, those touchy feely biden gifs are still gross as hell. I'm disappointed with SC voters. I guess their life must be currently great to want to stick with the status quo.
 

SolarPowered

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,211
I'm predicting a Biden victory in SC by between 5-8 percent. Definitely not by the margin that he needs going into Super Tuesday, but enough that we'll get bombarded with several op-eds about how Biden's comeback starts now and that Bernie's momentum is dead.
This is what I'm hoping for as well. Maybe a combination of Bernie overperforming and Biden underperforming brings it a little closer. I don't think anyone could hype a 5-8 point win with a serious face, but the media will probably try.
 

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
9,434
I was trying to explain this to friends earlier in the week, and Friday's The Majority Report episode actually presented a good example. I find that COVID-19 has reaffirmed my political ideology, particularly in this presidential election. Often times people who start to get sick will wait until it's really bad before seeing a doctor or going to the hospital. Partly because of the cost, partly because the time involved. TMR used a restaurant worker as their example. You have a worker who is sick but they can't take time off both because they need the money (let's say because they're in debt from college) and because it puts keeping their job at risk. So they don't get the help they need, they have the coronavirus, they work a full shift at a restaurant, every person in that building during their shift is at risk now. And then the same thing plays out for some of the people who ate there because they too have shitty circumstances that prevent them from taking days off.

The point is the threat of COVID-19 is minimized in a society where seeking medical help is $0 at the point of service. It's also minimized in a society where student debt isn't a thing, and medications aren't overpriced, and workers can have a sick day without the threat of losing their jobs, and everyone is making a living wage, and our government isn't lying to us, and we're working together with other countries, and we're not cutting funding of essential services and organizations to fund a bloated military we use way too much.

To me a Sanders nomination was already essential just based on the possibility of any one of his policies (seriously, pick one, it's probably essential to improving society). But I feel like this moment in time could (and should) be a referendum on all the bad shit that happens in America because our government doesn't care about anyone but their donors. The Trump administration is saying they won't step in to control the pricing of a vaccine, and Pelosi is just crossing her fingers and hoping it's cheap. The fact that a free vaccine isn't the default position is fucked, and speaks to the kind of establishment mindset that needs to die. If there's any possible silver lining to this issue I hope it's the complete destruction of Trump followed by a domino effect that starts with the GOP and ends with establishment democrats.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,736
Tokyo
Biden needs to be 13+ pts ahead of Sanders in SC I think to make it a clear victory. Texas should be interesting on Tuesday. If Biden clearly wins SC he might have the small momentum bump to help him in TX.
 
Mar 31, 2018
616
Here are more pictures of Joe Biden.
0wlttye

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ETok6Vs.gif

DO1zbPNVQAEuKs7.jpg

It's unapproachable. If he was European, he'd be punished for it.

But despite this, I'd rather have him than those two narcissists who get free rein in American "democracy".

Prefer Bernie Sanders, by the way.
 
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