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Democratic Presidential Primary |February OT| It Can't be Worse than Iowa, Right? (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%

  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%

  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%

  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%

  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%

  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%
  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
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Nocturne

Nocturne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,727
if these never trump republicans actually exist in any statistically notable capacity what would own actually is if we had a candidate so repulsive to their core ideological tenets that they sit out the election entirely and don't electorally contribute at all to down ballot races
 
Ashodin

Ashodin

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,595
Durham, NC
Bush Era Republicans are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smaller than a coalition of working class citizens of every race and generation.

And more people are waking up to Bernie, that's why his numbers keep going up and he keeps catching up to everyone or blowing right past them.
 
Nocturne

Nocturne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,727
bush era republicans are all bloodthirsty warmongers so they will definitely vote for the candidate most likely to kill a bunch of people in iran
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I didn't sign up to placate Never Trumpers. My entire shift leftwards has been predicated on the simple idea that the DNC cares too much about the opinions of Republicans and not enough about real material issues. If I was at all satisfied with that strategy of hand wringing over the feelings of Bush-era idiots I would've stuck with Third Way liberalism.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,118
Nocturne said:
bush era republicans are all bloodthirsty warmongers so they will definitely vote for the candidate most likely to kill a bunch of people in iran
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I think the funniest part is calling Bush era Republicans "centrist" although I guess that it's a tacit admission that the center doesn't really exist in any meaningful way and most "centrists" are just right-wingers that don't want to be called Nazis.
 
OldGamer

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
389
Bonafide said:
yep, the idea of all of these conservatives hating trump and moving to the left is an illusion.

at best, they vote for conservative dems...who are republicans in all but name.
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I think the only potential former Trump voters that would throw their hat with Sanders would be those who misguidedly supported Trump solely as a voice for the blue collar working class and believed his promises, in addition to the usual Republican tax cuts, and now feel left in the cold.

These would also be Republicans newly registered in 2016 and now regret it. Though I would consider these voters to be a real minority percentage-wise. But perhaps a seed that can grow if Sanders fulfills his promises.

The others are would be center-right voters, as you say, that would gravitate toward a DINO like Bloomberg, but again, not likely a big number either.

I think since 2016, the line separating the Red voters from the rest is a relatively clean and sharp.
 
Septimus Prime

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
eyeball_kid said:
Sure, Trump's core base will go down with the Titanic, but there's a lot of centrist, Bush-era Republicans who hate Trump and will hold their nose to vote for a Democrat if they aren't too extreme. But Bernie is not making that easy for them to stomach. And we need those people. We can't rely on Democrats alone to win this, especially if vote manipulation comes into play -- which you can be sure as hell it will.
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And you think they will vote for Warren, whose policy positions are almost the same as Bernie's. Come on, dude.
 
Heromanz

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
How many times should the Democrats try to go after Republican voters just to fail and Republican voters just vote Republican?
 

Deleted member 5876

Big Seller
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,559
Once again I feel the need to point out that excellent podcast from earlier in the thread.
Those candidates who run away from themselves and who they are lose elections.
Running to the middle because you think it makes you more electable is a strategy that no longer works and hasn't worked for awhile.
 
Bad_Boy

Bad_Boy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
If its trump vs bernie. These centrist right old school Republicans just aint voting.

I cant imagine people like megan mccain voting for bernie, even after personal attacks to her family. Unless maybe he has a VP that she really likes. Just using her as an example because i know she doesnt like trump. (So she says)
 
Muppet of a Man

Muppet of a Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,670
samoyed said:
I didn't sign up to placate Never Trumpers. My entire shift leftwards has been predicated on the simple idea that the DNC cares too much about the opinions of Republicans and not enough about real material issues. If I was at all satisfied with that strategy of hand wringing over the feelings of Bush-era idiots I would've stuck with Third Way liberalism.
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This. The feigning of "the feels" for moderate Republicans is only to obfuscate what they really are themselves: DINOs.

Third way democrats love the funneling of money upwards...a.k.a. corporate welfare....and the incessant chipping away of the welfare state which benefited working and middle class people.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,118
It turns out that a racist, sexist psychopath that loves war and nationalism is really popular among Republican voters.

This is hard to believe. I thought for sure there'd be a sizable chunk who turned in their Republican registration just because he doesn't pretend to be a nice Christian family man.

lol is this about trump or bloomberg
 
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HipsterMorty

HipsterMorty

alt account
Banned
Jan 25, 2020
901
eyeball_kid said:
Sure, Trump's core base will go down with the Titanic, but there's a lot of centrist, Bush-era Republicans who hate Trump and will hold their nose to vote for a Democrat if they aren't too extreme. But Bernie is not making that easy for them to stomach. And we need those people. We can't rely on Democrats alone to win this, especially if vote manipulation comes into play -- which you can be sure as hell it will.
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This is actually a bad idea because running centrist moderate campaigns designed to lure republicans depresses our own voters. If you look at voter registration in swing states, you'll notice we have a raw voter advantage. It's just that democrats are terrible at getting people energized to vote. The GOP uses fear to get their people to vote and it works. Working across the isle is dead and we need Republicans as much as they need Democrats.

90
 
HipsterMorty

HipsterMorty

alt account
Banned
Jan 25, 2020
901
IMCaprica said:
I think Warren understands that if there's a specific position she wants she's probably going to be able to get it from Sanders after tonight. I think tonight was both a last ditch effort to try to clear a path and to leverage her ability to hit the campaign trail and destroy Sanders' remaining primary opponents. And just as her donations showed after the previous debate, she's going to be able to use her attacks on Sanders' opponents to raise money for him. She can pick her spot I think. And honestly, I think Sanders probably would've let her pick anyway.

Honestly I got the vibe that everyone showed up unprepared. I don't know if it was just that they all expected each other to bury Sanders immediately and then he'd choke or what. Sanders was prepared for the attacks (as best he could be). I just think he wasn't at all prepared for that audience. But the longer the debate went on it became increasingly apparent no one had anything planned. After that initial barrage came and went without mention of Sanders' old writings I thought for sure Bloomberg was saving it. It never came up. I thought tonight would be the night Warren roasted Sanders on the filibuster, but she brought it up and totally let him off the hook. Buttigieg clearly had a plan to just interject as often as possible, but he had no plan for what would happen if everyone just ignored him. They all kind of flailed. It was weird.

Also I think I'm done going after Biden for being bad at this. I don't even think it's his fault anymore. I never like the health excuse. I thought it was stupid when people wanted Sanders to drop because of the heart attack. I never even liked Clinton but I thought the health conspiracy bullshit around her was gross. It's almost always bad faith and pushed by people who don't want that person around. And to be fair I don't want Biden as the nominee and I think his behavior over the years has been bad. But his campaign this time around triggers me on a human level. He's not ok, it's obvious he's not ok, and this likely win on Saturday is going to keep him from leaving a little while longer. The whole thing sucks, I hope he drops out and just lives life.
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I don't know if you caught it but there was a part where Pete was struggling to talk over everyone else to try and bring up Bernie's filibuster stance. He was ignored.
 
fontguy

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,150
eyeball_kid said:
Really? I guess I'm imagining groups like The Lincoln Project then.
We do not undertake this task lightly nor from ideological preference. Our many policy differences with national Democrats remain. However, the priority for all patriotic Americans must be a shared fidelity to the Constitution and a commitment to defeat those candidates who have abandoned their constitutional oaths, regardless of party. Electing Democrats who support the Constitution over Republicans who do not is a worthy effort.

Believe me, they are out there. Many are just leaving the party outright.
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Okay, so some people started a PAC. That says literally nothing about the number or fungibility of never trumpers. And the idea of potentially sacrificing turnout to better woo these people who may not even exist in significant numbers, and who may not be serious enough about this to vote for any democrat actually committed to the changes and reforms we desperately need, strikes me as blindingly stupid.
 
Septimus Prime

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
eyeball_kid said:
I think some would, mostly because she doesn't have the "raging socialist" rep that Bernie has with those types. But yeah of course I think Warren is more electable in the general, she's my candidate of choice.
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I'd be hard pressed to imagine Republicans will parse the nuances of their platforms to like one over the other. Not when they can just vote Republican and get the guy they mostly agree with.
 
Nocturne

Nocturne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,727
in general the whole premise of how we 'need' republican converts is ridiculous, if the republicans who believe in basically everything trump does but are so turned off by his lack of decorum they'll never vote for him actually exist, then whether or not there's a platform that they actually want on the table matters jack and shit because presumably they're sitting the election out either way. if the plan is to actually convert them somehow, then you compromise your platform for a huge part of the base that you're actually supposed to represent (or presumably under threat of that the other option is worse??) for a portion of voters who may or may not actually exist and even if they do, are both a crapshoot on whether they'll actually turn out for you at all and, because they're only opposed to a particularly clownish form of fascism, will inevitably vote for a more acceptable republican next time anyways.

Mekanos said:
I think the funniest part is calling Bush era Republicans "centrist" although I guess that it's a tacit admission that the center doesn't really exist in any meaningful way and most "centrists" are just right-wingers that don't want to be called Nazis.
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yeah i mean it's a testament to how fucked the overton window's become where the guys who initiated an illegal war, massively expanded the national surveillance apparatus and created ICE are the 'centrists' now that we must appeal to in order to win elections. the centre has always been a trojan horse to define the boundaries of political acceptability and slowly move those boundaries rightward
 
IMCaprica

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
9,416
HipsterMorty said:
I don't know if you caught it but there was a part where Pete was struggling to talk over everyone else to try and bring up Bernie's filibuster stance. He was ignored.
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I definitely missed that. I started watching the debate through The Majority Report but they and a bunch of independent media outlets got hit with nonsense copyright complaints on Twitch at one point.

The entire story for Pete at this debate was his seemingly imaginary other debate he was having separate from everyone else.
 
HipsterMorty

HipsterMorty

alt account
Banned
Jan 25, 2020
901

Well well well look at Sanders with the most support for unifying the party! Looks like Bloomberg is the let's fight fire with fire option.
 

Deleted member 8644

User requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
975
eyeball_kid said:
I think some would, mostly because she doesn't have the "raging socialist" rep that Bernie has with those types. But yeah of course I think Warren is more electable in the general, she's my candidate of choice.
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You really have to ignore reality to think that. She has less votes in the primary, she does worse in h2h polling and she was already successfully baited by Trump into doing the dumb dna test thing. Not to mention she'd be called Pocahontas for all the lead up the elections.
 
Heromanz

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
eyeball_kid said:
I think some would, mostly because she doesn't have the "raging socialist" rep that Bernie has with those types. But yeah of course I think Warren is more electable in the general, she's my candidate of choice.
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this idea of the good Republican needs to die because it never has worked never will work. at the end of the day are rolling have to choose between a centralist person or Republican.
 
Afrikan

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,966
I usually feel most of these MSM voter interviews are not genuine, but this voter seems genuine to me.

 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,637
Ashodin said:
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

This bodes well for SC doesn't it
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Depends - Bernie leads overwhelmingly with younger black voters, but the 65+ black voters are still firmly behind Biden and they seem to be the main driving force in the SC primary.
 
GiantBreadbug

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
Vector said:
Depends - Bernie leads overwhelmingly with younger black voters, but the 65+ black voters are still firmly behind Biden and they seem to be the main driving force in the SC primary.
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Unfortunately for Biden, a narrow win in SC translates into a sad short extension of his doomed campaign. Meanwhile even as much as a narrow Bernie win means it's more or less over.
 
Nida

Nida

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,138
Everett, Washington
Yang people haven't given up it seems. #CouldhadYang is trending number one.

I keep seeing people saying he would have solved poverty with his $1,000 to everyone each month. Free money is nice and all, but it's going to take a lot more than $1,000 to really help people. The rent is too damn high.
 
Fatmanp

Fatmanp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,438
HipsterMorty said:
This is actually a bad idea because running centrist moderate campaigns designed to lure republicans depresses our own voters. If you look at voter registration in swing states, you'll notice we have a raw voter advantage. It's just that democrats are terrible at getting people energized to vote. The GOP uses fear to get their people to vote and it works. Working across the isle is dead and we need Republicans as much as they need Democrats.

90
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That is a very interesting table. How old is the data? Also is there a table with all 50 states on it? You are absolutely right that with those numbers it suggests the Democrats are an absolute shit show when it comes to mobilizing voters.
 
Zeroro

Zeroro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,406
Even having a crowd that was largely for him, Bloomberg couldn't make himself look good on stage. You love to see it.
 

i like big butts

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
Fleck0 said:
The idea of Pete going up against Trump one on one is hilarious to me, he would get demolished. I take solace there's no chance we'll see that in this reality.
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Trump's brain is basically goop at this point but the few times he's lucid is when he's putting someone down. The idea that Pete is a good debater because he's good at interrupting people like that is moderate respectable politics fantasy. The same people are the type who thought Pelosi ripping that speech up is some sort of act of political masterclass and defiance.

You're absolutely right he would get ripped to bits by Trump.
 
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