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Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
The other side of this is that the farthest back you can push these primaries is June, which... things are very likely to be worse than they are now in June.
so that's the weird part because everybody Is saying that the worst will be in 45 days, so it gets pushed back and then what ? you can't push it back anymore as we have to get this done sooner rather than later because we have November to worry about and there is no way that the presidential election will be pushed back even if the virus is strong as ever.

The swine flu took a whole year before everything was back to normal, this is even worse.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,338
I think he's trying to save lives by constantly pushing for M4A. He knows he has some influence and will try to get some of his policies unto Biden or least put the pressure on him to adopt them in some way. Biden, if it weren't for Sanders, would be outright laughing at the idea of M4A if it wasn't for it gaining popularity through the sanders/progressive movement.
How many lives is he endangering by continuing to act like he has a chance? The people have spoken. Acknowledge it. Stop risking mass exposure to a virus and drop the hell out. Dems need to heal and focus on the party platform. Then it's time for war planning against the hundreds of millions of dollars that Trump has.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Ah, so we're at the point of blaming Bernie for the coronavirus rather than the DNC for forcing these primaries to go forward.

I'm not shocked after seeing a mod here say that Bernie was red pilling people.
Noone is blaming Bernie for the corona virus, but he has no path to the nomination and he's putting his supporters at risk by staying in. All he's doing is hurting the democratic nominee by staying in.
 
Dec 12, 2017
4,652
This whole segment was brutal. A bunch of old liberals ganging up on the lone millennial.

Her point is strong. Millennials are now about to experience their second recession and so many of them haven't been able to pick themselves up after the first one. The boomers aren't listening. The goal of a "return to normalcy" that is repeatedly referenced is insulting to so many millennials and poor people who were still struggling terribly under the last 'normal' democratic administration.
So why aren't they voting??????? It's so insulting yet they can't be bothered to go to the polls.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,429
So why aren't they voting??????? It's so insulting yet they can't be bothered to go to the polls.

The structural barriers to voting are larger for young people and poor people (often the same) than it is for the established, old and wealthy. It was always going to be an incredible uphill barrier for Bernies particular coalition.

This may be even more true in the current pandemic environment.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
I think he's trying to save lives by constantly pushing for M4A. He knows he has some influence and will try to get some of his policies unto Biden or least put the pressure on him to adopt them in some way. Biden, if it weren't for Sanders, would be outright laughing at the idea of M4A if it wasn't for it gaining popularity through the sanders/progressive movement.
Biden has to feel pretty good about not making any concessions to Bernie or his supporters, because they're consistently not showing up. every state that Bernie loses by 30 or 40 points is one where Biden doesn't have to try to appeal to his base.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,607
The structural barriers to voting are larger for young people and poor people (often the same) than it is for the established, old and wealthy. It was always going to be an incredible uphill barrier for Bernies particular coalition.

This may be even more true in the current pandemic environment.
I do know this is true, but even in states that offer *extremely* generous vote-by-mail and early voting, it still seems to be the case. It might be an issue of messaging (the idea of "voting" is still mentally entrenched in the experience of going somewhere and waiting in line), but...man, they just don't seem to turn out.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,088
The structural barriers to voting are larger for young people and poor people (often the same) than it is for the established, old and wealthy. It was always going to be an incredible uphill barrier for Bernies particular coalition.

This may be even more true in the current pandemic environment.

Uh. Wouldn't the 'structural barriers' be greater for older voters right now given that there is a virus that could kill them, while said virus would basically not affect younger voters at all?

Doesn't make sense. Younger voters don't vote as older voters do...You don't need more of an explanation than that.
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
Uh. Wouldn't the 'structural barriers' be greater for older voters right now given that there is a virus that could kill them, while said virus would basically not affect younger voters at all?

Doesn't make sense. Younger voters don't vote as older voters do...You don't need more of an explanation than that.

We had to close down the bars to keep the young people at home. They just don't care about voting.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,030
Young people don't care about voting and haven't since well before Millennials could vote.

I don't understand this need to make excuses and attempts to lionize young people as some future great savior.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
So, Bernie of a week ago had a good narrative to leverage to get concessions out of Biden. He won the latin@ decisively, he did extremely well with white college educated, and he did extremely well with young people that vote in the democratic primary. Him bringing these groups to the table would be enough to give him a seat at the table.

Now, the problem with what just happened is that Biden won the latin@ vote in Florida and Arizona tonight. Florida is unsurprising, Arizona, on the other hand... basically, Bernie's now lost the latin@ vote decisively in the latest contests. He no longer has that leverage, or narrative, and it's also entirely possible that Biden wouldn't have even lost the latin@ vote in cali and Texas by that much without Bloomberg and Warren in the race. All he has to negotiate with now are young voters, and a chunk of white college, which is something, but...

Ban in person voting use mail ballots extend the deadline. Seriously why they not only allowed that, but actively encouraged it is flat out suicidal.
The problem is that republicans are in charge of that in a lot of places. Either case, the "when" of it is no better in June, it's worse if anything.
 

ZeroDotFlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
928
So why aren't they voting??????? It's so insulting yet they can't be bothered to go to the polls.
They do vote. In the General Election. Now why do you think young people overwhelmingly don't vote in the Primaries but come out for the General?

Consider the following: In 2016, 18-39 made up approximately 36% of the total votes and they overwhelmingly came out in favor of Hillary. The rest (40+) came out overwhelmingly in favor of Donald Trump. Now what age groups is Bernie winning and what age groups is Biden winning?

In the GE, the group that Biden is winning will all move over to Trump. And Biden's doing absolutely nothing to win over the youth group, which will depress turnout. Without the youth vote, Biden can not and will not win the presidency.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,147
I'm mostly confident with Biden right now, but every once in a while I freak out because Trump gets away with everything it seems.
 

-Devious-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
202
How many lives is he endangering by continuing to act like he has a chance? The people have spoken. Acknowledge it. Stop risking mass exposure to a virus and drop the hell out. Dems need to heal and focus on the party platform. Then it's time for war planning against the hundreds of millions of dollars that Trump has.
How many lives is Biden endangering by saying outright that he'll veto any form of M4A proposal that reaches his desk. Even if passed by both parties. He needs someone to push him into that direction. Unity and healing mean returning to normalcy which equates to millions of uninsured people living on poverty wages due to decades of "unity" by the democratic party that is being exacerbated by the current pandemic.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
They do vote. In the General Election. Now why do you think young people overwhelmingly don't vote in the Primaries but come out for the General?

Consider the following: In 2016, 18-39 made up approximately 36% of the total votes and they overwhelmingly came out in favor of Hillary. The rest (40+) came out overwhelmingly in favor of Donald Trump. Now what age groups is Bernie winning and what age groups is Biden winning?

In the GE, the group that Biden is winning will all move over to Trump. And Biden's doing absolutely nothing to win over the youth group, which will depress turnout. Without the youth vote, Biden can not and will not win the presidency.
Is this the mindset of the bernie fans who think he could win a GE despite getting fuckin destroyed in two primaries???
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
93,184
here
every state from here on out will either be a Florida (bada boom) or an Arizona (solid win) for Biden
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,088
I'm mostly confident with Biden right now, but every once in a while I freak out because Trump gets away with everything it seems.

What gives me hope is that Biden is cleaning up in districts that Hillary lost (and to a larger extent, important states like MI).

It's been said, but: people just reaallllyyy fucking hate Hillary Clinton.

Apparently all we needed was a white man. Preferably moderate.

I feel very good about the GE, and did before COVID came into the picture.

Is this the mindset of the bernie fans who think he could win a GE despite getting fuckin destroyed in two primaries???

Seriously.

I've seen this rationale before and it melts my brain. I don't even know where to begin.
 

-Devious-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
202
Biden has to feel pretty good about not making any concessions to Bernie or his supporters, because they're consistently not showing up. every state that Bernie loses by 30 or 40 points is one where Biden doesn't have to try to appeal to his base.
Be that as it may, the democratic party needs every voter to beat trump.
 

ZeroDotFlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
928
Is this the mindset of the bernie fans who think he could win a GE despite getting fuckin destroyed in two primaries???
Hillary won the primary, but why do you think she lost the GE? Despite doing much better than Bernie?

Maybe it's because...the primary doesn't mean shit when it comes to the GE? Hillary was deeply unpopular among general voters despite being more popular among Dem voters. Do you not see the repeat happening here?
 

Lebron

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,582
They do vote. In the General Election. Now why do you think young people overwhelmingly don't vote in the Primaries but come out for the General?

Consider the following: In 2016, 18-39 made up approximately 36% of the total votes and they overwhelmingly came out in favor of Hillary. The rest (40+) came out overwhelmingly in favor of Donald Trump. Now what age groups is Bernie winning and what age groups is Biden winning?

In the GE, the group that Biden is winning will all move over to Trump. And Biden's doing absolutely nothing to win over the youth group, which will depress turnout. Without the youth vote, Biden can not and will not win the presidency.
This is some impressive Harlem Globetrotters logic
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,147
What gives me hope is that Biden is cleaning up in districts that Hillary lost (and to a larger extent, important states like MI).

It's been said, but: people just reaallllyyy fucking hate Hillary Clinton.

Apparently all we needed was a white man. Preferably moderate.

I feel very good about the GE, and did before COVID came into the picture.



Seriously.

I've seen this rationale before and it melts my brain. I don't even know where to begin.

Well I kept trying to tell people in 2016 this, but no body listened because she was the most electable or some shit. Even with all her flaws, she won the popular vote by 3 million. It really is amazing that all this bullshit the past 4 years is because of that small amount of people. Hell, I'll harp back to 2000. Think of everything that created our current timeline because of them calling Florida despite Gore winning it.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,250
Bernie not dropping out after this would be extremely irresponsible, and would make me lose a lot of respect for him.
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,222
Hillary won the primary, but why do you think she lost the GE? Despite doing much better than Bernie?

Maybe it's because...the primary doesn't mean shit when it comes to the GE? Hillary was deeply unpopular among general voters despite being more popular among Dem voters. Do you not see the repeat happening here?
Clintons absurd unpopularity wont repeat with Biden, he isnt deeply unpopular among general elections voters and blows Clinton out in most demos.
 

Atlagev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
686
The thing I'm more worried about besides the primaries is the actual convention in July. How do you logistically hold it at this point? I sure don't see the COVID-19 stuff calming down by that point.
 

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
You don't want Bernie to go out and rally for Biden multiple times in the general? I thought that you wanted to heal the divide between the progressive and moderate wings of the party.

Also no, Bernie isn't going away even after 2020. He didn't go away after 2016 and there are other races and policies that need to be pushed and not ignored even after the election is done. Waiting for a four year period to care about politics won't get anything done.
There are better progressives in the party with plans to implement them.
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,306
wherever
So, Bernie of a week ago had a good narrative to leverage to get concessions out of Biden. He won the latin@ decisively, he did extremely well with white college educated, and he did extremely well with young people that vote in the democratic primary. Him bringing these groups to the table would be enough to give him a seat at the table.

Now, the problem with what just happened is that Biden won the latin@ vote in Florida and Arizona tonight. Florida is unsurprising, Arizona, on the other hand... basically, Bernie's now lost the latin@ vote decisively in the latest contests. He no longer has that leverage, or narrative, and it's also entirely possible that Biden wouldn't have even lost the latin@ vote in cali and Texas by that much without Bloomberg and Warren in the race. All he has to negotiate with now are young voters, and a chunk of white college, which is something, but...

It was so stupid to stay in the race past the debate. Any half decent advisor would have pushed him to go to the table with Biden before Tuesday.
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
so that's the weird part because everybody Is saying that the worst will be in 45 days, so it gets pushed back and then what ? you can't push it back anymore as we have to get this done sooner rather than later because we have November to worry about and there is no way that the presidential election will be pushed back even if the virus is strong as ever.

The swine flu took a whole year before everything was back to normal, this is even worse.

You make a insanely good point.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,587
Richmond, VA
Hillary won the primary, but why do you think she lost the GE? Despite doing much better than Bernie?

Maybe it's because...the primary doesn't mean shit when it comes to the GE? Hillary was deeply unpopular among general voters despite being more popular among Dem voters. Do you not see the repeat happening here?

As deeply unpopular as she was, she only lost by 100k votes in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton.

He is not guaranteed to win, no one ever is, but this is not the same race as 2016.
 

-Devious-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
202

ZeroDotFlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
928
Clintons absurd unpopularity wont repeat with Biden, he isnt deeply unpopular among general elections voters and blows Clinton out in most demos.
Not sure exactly how you can say he's not deeply unpopular among GE voters considering he hasn't even been fully put into the hot seat yet. And Biden has a lot of skeletons to dig up.

And my point is that Trump voters are unwavering. They're not going to be deterred by any mistake or fuckup that Trump does. So all Trump has to do is depress Dem turnout, plus incumbent advantage.
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
In the GE, the group that Biden is winning will all move over to Trump. And Biden's doing absolutely nothing to win over the youth group, which will depress turnout. Without the youth vote, Biden can not and will not win the presidency.

Biden is also doing jack shit to lock down the tooth fairy vote and the leprechaun vote. Doomed!
 

-Peabody-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,599
How many lives is he endangering by continuing to act like he has a chance? The people have spoken. Acknowledge it. Stop risking mass exposure to a virus and drop the hell out. Dems need to heal and focus on the party platform. Then it's time for war planning against the hundreds of millions of dollars that Trump has.

Bernie isn't the one endangering lives. I'm tired of hearing how the party needs to "heal" and focus on defeating Trump like that's the only thing at stake here.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,088
Not sure exactly how you can say he's not deeply unpopular among GE voters considering he hasn't even been fully put into the hot seat yet. And Biden has a lot of skeletons to dig up.

And my point is that Trump voters are unwavering. They're not going to be deterred by any mistake or fuckup that Trump does. So all Trump has to do is depress Dem turnout, plus incumbent advantage.

Counterpoint: Turnout is at record highs... And it's not because of Biden, per se.

It's because people hate Trump. Biden isn't the candidate we're voting for, Trump is the candidate we're voting against.
Bernie isn't the one endangering lives. I'm tired of hearing how the party needs to "heal" and focus on defeating Trump like that's the only thing at stake here.

It's the most important thing at stake.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
93,184
here
Not sure exactly how you can say he's not deeply unpopular among GE voters considering he hasn't even been fully put into the hot seat yet. And Biden has a lot of skeletons to dig up.
this notion that JOE FUCKING BIDEN hasn't been vetted and attacked by republicans through the years is ridiculous
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
Hillary won the primary, but why do you think she lost the GE? Despite doing much better than Bernie?

Maybe it's because...the primary doesn't mean shit when it comes to the GE? Hillary was deeply unpopular among general voters despite being more popular among Dem voters. Do you not see the repeat happening here?
to compare last time to this..please sit down you're embarrassing yourself.

This time it rather showed how little options and confidence people had in Hillary, that actually made Bernie seem competitive against her. This time people voted to reject him because he just doesn't run a good campaign, if he did we would have a different outcome, and would have finished off Biden in South Carolina.

You could say that he took everything for Granted, hoping that everyone would eat themselves as he would drift to victory easily. He Lost and it's done.
 
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