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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Well what's the solution then, beyond broad societal culture shift.
Healthcare was a pretty huge step left and was his central platform. No one was chanting about Obama going "he'll only moderately change things!". Trying to retroactively suggest he ran a moderate campaign is ahistorical.
So the district administration at my school wants all teachers to come in on Thursday in order to work on adapting curriculum to determine what we teach when we get back and how much we can cover... but we don't know when we're going to be back. We could also easily do that online. I think they feel like because we have a contract they want us to work in building as much as possible.
I'm hoping that they reconsider when people start to see what's going on next week.
I'm hoping that they reconsider when people start to see what's going on next week.
Obamacare, previously known as Romneycare, was a moderate GOP plan from before they went completely insane. It was not the leftist position on healthcare at the time, which was a public option. That same public option that Biden is running on now which is now supposedly totally garbage.
You can't run on "change" coming off of an immensely popular President from your own party. But guess what, no one runs on being a "centrist." And I know you're going to argue that Biden saying he can work with Republicans means he is, but guess what, of the three, only Clinton ran acknowledging the impossibility of working across the aisle. And she lost.
In addition, Clinton ran, and Biden is running, on improving healthcare, just not in the way you think would be best. And that's a perfectly valid standpoint to have. But you aren't the general American public, and judging by the midterms, where moderates performed well in the areas Clinton lost, the notion that a moderate can never win a presidential election has no basis.
Biden is on the way to win nomination, Bernie has much less paths after Biden won MI
not even a literal pandemic is enough for the American left to consider supporting a Medicare for all candidate.
This primary is serving as a good reminder that people generally vote for candidates, not platforms.
What Obama eventually passed and what he ran on were not the same thing lol.
You didn't have to run on the same slogan as the previous candidate to not run as a moderate.
It isn't a valid standpoint to have because of the number of people uninsured and unable to get care even if they moderately improve the system. Slightly making it better isn't good enough. And continuing to use a metric that hasn't proven your point about the topic were discussing at hand isn't helping your point either and seems far more baseless than anything Ive stated in here.
On a societal level, yes broad cultural shifts need to happen. Note I'm not saying that a woman can't win, and in fact I think a woman breaking that glass ceiling is one of the largest societal shifts that could happen.
On a personal level, I would suggest everyone at least try to stop internalizing ideas like "likability" into the equation when finding candidates you support (and really just in general), as likability as a concept is subconsciously skewed in favor of men. If you have friends who make comments like "but I just don't like her" question them on it. That's a hard nut to crack though.
The healthcare plan Obama ran on was significantly more conservative than the plan Biden is running on. Does that make Biden a progressive?
I'd go with narcissism. Hence the "Biden was nice to me so I like him" stuff that came out and utter inability to ever change.
There is a vast difference between where we are now in terms of healthcare then where we were in 08 when Obama ran, and you know that. Comparing Biden to candidates 12 years ago to shield him from the fact that hes to the right of virtually everyone else running on the platform in 2020 is just disingenuous whataboutism.
Let's stop pretending like the minor differences between Obamacare and The Public Option are in any way significant.
The framing of the healthcare conversation should be that there is a bare minimum of what we need to solve the healthcare issue (Single Payer), and there is everything else that is utterly insufficient and unacceptable. I don't care if a little less people will die with Bidens plan, it's still unacceptable and not a solution to the problem we are facing.
Well, that's certinly a valid topic for debate, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the context of my post.
Apologies for the rant, that was just my way of saying that Biden's healthcare plan being to the left of Obama's doesn't make him a progressive.
Right, and I agree with you. But on that same turn I don't think Obama's plan made him one either.
No, what's totally disingenuous is ignoring how much the Democratic party has moved to the left in the last ten years and that you and people like you are pretending that Biden's platform, which is definitely more left than Obama's and in some ways Clinton's, is status quo centrism and would not be a significant shift leftwards and importantly, about as left as the majority of the persuadable electorate is comfortable with, particularly when the actual alternative to Biden at this point is a continuation of a far right government of corrupt, racist, neo fascists that is currently bungling a global health crisis because they're also massively incompetent.
I wouldn't trust Biden to tie my shoes if I'm honest but at this point it's the best shot we're gonna get because the alternative is basically full trottle toward collapse (as this admin's way of deal with Covid19 is any indication).
4 years ago if you told me that some politicians like AOC were actually viable enough to steer the conversation nationwide I would have laughed in your face.
It's not enough but it's clear progress if you ask me.
It's not easy but something can be done and there seems to be a growing base that support reforming the system.
As we've seen times and again on a various numbers of issues, it might seem impossible but we may be closer than we think.
I mean look at the acceptance of homosexuality, we went from companies denying rights for no reason to being massively unprofitable to even show support to homophobia.
It's true regarding policy that incremental change is what get things done but it's even truer for changing the landscape.
Look at the other side of the coin, it took a bit of a while for the GoP to fully finish its transformation in the monster it currently is.
... Obama's plan was a dozen years ago. No, that doesn't make Biden a progressive, Jesus, lol. edit- even a plan supporting the public option is not progressive in a 2020 Democratic primary. That's a moderate position.
Umm, yeah I know. It was a rhetorical question.
Neither Biden or Obama are progressives.
I'll just leave these here
I'm not the one making stuff up. I also never said Biden wasn't to the left of Obama and its weird people keep trying to make up this strawman within this discussion. Running to the left of Obama is currently the moderate position within the party, because the overton window has shifted much further left. And saying that people aren't comfortable with further left leaning ideas is silly given even the majority of republicans support M4a.
'Incredible': New Poll That Shows 70% of Americans Support Medicare for All Includes 84% of Democrats and 52% of Republicans
"Don't tell anyone but, uh, we're gonna win."
www.commondreams.org
And people keep pointing out Trump is the opposite end of Biden but it fails to reconcile that Biden and the moderates approach is exactly the condition that gives us the trumps, the Ws, etc. Its doing nothing to imporve the material conditions of the people, and its why they lost to donald fucking trump in the first place. Stop trying to win on a campaign of "we'll kill you slightly slower than the other people!" and try running on something thats going to fundamentally fix the issues at hand, issues that as pointed above are widely supported by the public.
Let's say in some dark hypothetical that the Coronavirus infects Trump, Biden, and Bernie... would Gabbard be basically an automatic shoo-in to be the president?
Obama ran on, and excited young people, with the language of progressivism, though. Biden ain't going to do that. Better hope the olds show up.
They will. They always do. It's the young people who have disappointed us time and time again.
She's currently got 0 delegates. Literally everyone who made it to at least one primary election is beating her.
Absolute bullshit.
From 2007:
Liberal views could haunt Obama
As Republicans lick their chops, the senator’s advisers say he has a record of being progressive yet pragmatic.
www.politico.com
He opposed the death penalty, endorsed the concept of single-payer health care, and would support restrictions on the possession of handguns, supported issuing driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants, raising taxes on high earners, and granting early release to individuals imprisoned on drug charges.
By contrast Clinton's platform demonstrated "realism" and "caution."
Nobody's 'excited' young people more than Bernie with the language of progressivism, and they flat out wouldn't show up for him. The olds have already shown up. They always do.
Any campaign that primarily is supported by young people is doomed to failure. Tale as old as time. You need more, something Bernie never learned.
I really hope the way the Trump administration is handling the virus gets the "I'm not going to vote if it's not my candidate" people to realize how much we need him out of office.
Young people are the ones that don't show up, as we saw with Bernie.
Was watching Bernies addressing people about healthcare on YouTube today. Damn I wish he was winning because he made so many great critiques. I think if he did more of these kinds of press conferences on different topics instead of the rally's he may have done better.
Fun part is that when people drop out of the primary they say they "suspend" their campaign.
They could technically "restart" it.
Doesn't she have 2? From American Samoa?
Regardless, the delegates would just pick someone at the convention. Although limping into the GE with that kind of entrance isn't exactly going to get people excited.
I should have tacked on a "show up, and vote for Biden." I'm sure old people will show up, unfortunately.
I thought she got one from American Samoa?
Doesn't matter to the original question anyway though as the party can pick whoever they want and it wouldn't be Tulsi
You're quoting an article that talks about how Obama's previous standpoints stand in contrast to his then current platform to prove Obama ran for the Presidency as a progressive?Absolute bullshit.
From 2007:
Liberal views could haunt Obama
As Republicans lick their chops, the senator’s advisers say he has a record of being progressive yet pragmatic.
He opposed the death penalty, endorsed the concept of single-payer health care, and would support restrictions on the possession of handguns, supported issuing driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants, raising taxes on high earners, and granting early release to individuals imprisoned on drug charges.
By contrast Clinton's platform demonstrated "realism" and "caution."
It seems to prove he ran away from that label.
Redirect Notice
www.google.ca
Voter suppression and conditions that make voting much harder for young people are a thing. You're never going to get anywhere by demonizing the youth instead of trying to understand and solve the structural issues that create low youth turnout.
I'm not the one making stuff up. I also never said Biden wasn't to the left of Obama and its weird people keep trying to make up this strawman within this discussion. Running to the left of Obama is currently the moderate position within the party, because the overton window has shifted much further left. And saying that people aren't comfortable with further left leaning ideas is silly given even the majority of republicans support M4a.
'Incredible': New Poll That Shows 70% of Americans Support Medicare for All Includes 84% of Democrats and 52% of Republicans
"Don't tell anyone but, uh, we're gonna win."
And people keep pointing out Trump is the opposite end of Biden but it fails to reconcile that Biden and the moderates approach is exactly the condition that gives us the trumps, the Ws, etc. Its doing nothing to imporve the material conditions of the people, and its why they lost to donald fucking trump in the first place. Stop trying to win on a campaign of "we'll kill you slightly slower than the other people!" and try running on something thats going to fundamentally fix the issues at hand, issues that as pointed above are widely supported by the public.
Why would people take advice on how to win from diehard supporters of a candidate who's currently losing by margins of 20%+ in states across the country?
Universal Healthcare delivered in a method similar to one of the EU countries that uses a multipayer system for delivery would absolutely improve the "material conditions" for people. What it would not do is make people happy who value "taking down capitalism" above anything else.
Nothing is stopping the others from jumping back in. They all still have delegates and would probably do better than Gabbard.
No. The Delegates for that candidate would be released and become free agents at the convention. You'd get someone aligned with Biden's backers.
It's an article from the primary season, comparing and contrasting the two candidates who are running.
We're currently in the primary season and comparing two candidates who are running. One is "safe" the other is progressive and excites the youth.
This is dated and documented proof from an established publication. You can try to shift the goal posts to talk about his general election strategy if you want to, or you can take the L and move on.
Because you need those people to win the WH. Or you can keep trying the neoliberal thing and see how that works out. It very well could end up outting Trump in November. But even if it does its only going to continue laying the groundwork for future Trumps to come into office because it wont be doing enough to fix the problems that led to him.
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