Obama at the end of February 08: 1,323.5
Clinton at the end of Feburary 08: 1,222.5
Biden right now: 881
Bernie: 725
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Clinton at the end of Feburary 08: 1,222.5
Biden right now: 881
Bernie: 725
That's the arrogance that is going to lose the democrats this election, it's almost a carbon repeat of 2016.
They think because an establishment candidate is winning, everyone else will fall in line. They and the many who support them will make zero effort to reach out and try to connect with those voters, something they will not fail to remind you is why Bernie lost. Hypocrisy does not begin to describe it.
God that'd be great. It would be an incredible unity message for the country when the GOP have to constantly restate and walkback every damn thing. People want a leader and, outside of his deplorable base, nobody views Trump as that.
A clear message would go a long way.
VtDigger said:A total breakdown of the 5,769 people incarcerated in 2017 in Vermont shows:
• White, 4,909, or 85.1 percent
• Black, 488, or 8.5 percent
• Hispanic, 9, or 0.2 percent
• Native American/Native Alaskan, 3, or 0.6 percent
• Middle Eastern, 1 percent
• Unknown, 291, or 5 percent
The report does not look at why the racial disparity exists.
Racial disparity in Vermont prisons little changed, report says - VTDigger
The report, ordered by the Legislature last session, has more detailed data than previous reports.vtdigger.org
Vs:
Wikipedia said:
Judging by birthrate percentages, the black population is around 1% (1-1.5%), which would mean anything between 6000-9000 people.
Still a devastating percentage, but that claim is factually false, by an order of magnitude.
And Sanders campaigned on pardoning all weed-related offenses while restoring voting rights as well, fwiw.
It's getting tiresome seeing people questioning what other people realize and don't realize about a candidate's political history. A vote for a candidate is not caping for them or their entire political history, nor does it mean someone is acting on "low information".
Sometimes a vote simply means "I'm voting this way absent of better/other options, and to prevent worse options from winning." We've established the "why" on this in multiple threads and posts over the past few months.
Sometimes a vote simply means "I'm voting this way absent of better/other options, and to prevent worse options from winning." We've established the "why" on this in multiple threads and posts over the past few months.
Glad to see you didn't even bother to read my post or maybe you would've seen where I stated Sanders was my #1, but don't let that stop ya..
My dude lets get over that "he marched with MLK" bludgeon. And after that he took his ass up to Vermont one of the whitest states in the union.
Here's How Black People Actually Fare in Bernie Sanders' Home State
In 2014, Gallup ranked the great state of Vermont the "second-most liberal" in the country. On its surface, the label seemed to fit: 30% of people polled identified as "liberal." Progressive darling Bernie Sanders has represented Vermonters in the…
It was not directed at you per say, just a general feeling from many things I've seen.
Higher percentage doesn't mean "There are more black people in Vermont prisons than are walking Vermont streets." That's quite misleading.Here's How Black People Actually Fare in Bernie Sanders' Home State
In 2014, Gallup ranked the great state of Vermont the "second-most liberal" in the country. On its surface, the label seemed to fit: 30% of people polled identified as "liberal." Progressive darling Bernie Sanders has represented Vermonters in the…www.mic.com
The person you responded to didn't say anything about deserve. They said that if he stays in and gets further curbstomped, he's go less political capital.
The ? wasn't questioning your fact, just Sou Da's reduction of your critique of Bernie to "words that hurt (your) sensibilities"My dude lets get over that "he marched with MLK" bludgeon. And after that he took his ass up to Vermont one of the whitest states in the union.
Here's How Black People Actually Fare in Bernie Sanders' Home State
In 2014, Gallup ranked the great state of Vermont the "second-most liberal" in the country. On its surface, the label seemed to fit: 30% of people polled identified as "liberal." Progressive darling Bernie Sanders has represented Vermonters in the…
The Democrats were already fired up to vote Trump out of office.
Now Trump winning again during a historic recession and pandemic would be absolute insanity and completely buck every data point that we have on presidents seeking reelection during a recession. Truman won in 1948 but the recession hit in November. Trump won't have that luxury.
So if people wanted him gone before and the economy is almost always the number one issue for voters, then it's going to be an absolute bloodbath this November.
It amazes me how quickly some folks seem to lose the ability to interpret figurative language.
Attacking? No no no no no you're mistaken brother. Bernie ran on his to change this party to make it better than it has been. While the other side has been saying remember the good old days of 2012 . I mean Think about it how many people in this thread is rally behind Joe Biden a man who was behind one of the most racist piece of legislation who has fucked over the black community the poor community the Latino community for decades now. As well as numerous other shit he's been a part of. It's fascinating to me how much this party , this core, wants to talk the talk when they have to walk the walk they fail they faltered they make the same mistakes. As. Kendrick Lamar once said shit don't chance until you wash your ass.
Look, I'm not a "Biden stan" or whatever, but what do you call the significant shift left already in Biden's position from that of the party in 2016, let alone 2012 or 2008?
They are both politicians in an empire that thrives on supressing the powerless, yes, Bernie is far from being flawless or ideal. (Which on shows like TMBS, it is regularly pointed out, especially for his nonexistent stance on foreign policy, further than the two state solution for Israel/Palestine which is good obviously.) I still maintain that there is a fundamental difference in Bernie being called out for him saying Castro had literacy programs and Biden being proud to opposing Bussing in modern day. But yeah.
Honestly hard to know in this thread when people are being literal or not, and we had another misrepresentation of numbers on the same page.
That is why the message has been failing, the core of the Democratic party is black women and progressives are going to tell black women they don't want better for themselves is always going to be a nonstarter
it gives me the slight hint that perhaps people care more about making their hot takes rather than actually reaching a productive conclusion
Maybe deserve was too strong of a word to use. Semantics aside, let's be honest. Regardless of what Sanders does Biden and the establishment have zero interest or desire to compromise with Sanders and it's a fantasy to think that Sanders has ANY leverage at all whether he drops out now or stays in the race to the very end.
I get sick of people calling for unity when everyone outside of the Sanders camp has done nothing but show they are absolutely unwilling to compromise with Sanders and the people who support him. I'd love to be proven wrong, but the anti-sanders folks will continue to find excuses not to compromise with him and his base and then try to make everything our fault.
It takes like 5 seconds to realize why this is factually not true.My dude lets get over that "he marched with MLK" bludgeon. And after that he took his ass up to Vermont one of the whitest states in the union.
Here's How Black People Actually Fare in Bernie Sanders' Home State
In 2014, Gallup ranked the great state of Vermont the "second-most liberal" in the country. On its surface, the label seemed to fit: 30% of people polled identified as "liberal." Progressive darling Bernie Sanders has represented Vermonters in the…
I haven't seen a single person here say Biden shouldn't compromise with Bernie. It's a smart play that will (hopefully) unify more of the party. Arguing that Bernie should compromise NOW and drop out, because he's going to hold less leverage the more he gets blown out, is not the same as advocating for no compromise. It's acknowledging the very real situation that Bernie see's himself in, and that he needs to put aside his vanity and pride for the good of his ideals. He and his supporters will have less of a say the more he gets blown out.
But let's get one thing straight. If you're idea of compromise is "I'm going to hold this gun to your head and if you don't give me exactly what I want, you'll be sorry" is NOT compromise. It's not unity. It's the antithesis of both.
So if you're idea of "compromise" is Biden adopting Bernie's specific healthcare plan that eradicates private insurance, that is not compromise.
And not to drag anyone here, but if you aren't aware that compromises were made to the democratic platform in 2016 in response to Bernie and his supports, that makes me extremely skeptical that you're actually interested in "compromise" or "unity" to begin with.
But let's get one thing straight. If you're idea of compromise is "I'm going to hold this gun to your head and if you don't give me exactly what I want, you'll be sorry" is NOT compromise. It's not unity. It's the antithesis of both.
So if you're idea of "compromise" is Biden adopting Bernie's specific healthcare plan that eradicates private insurance, that is not compromise.
And not to drag anyone here, but if you aren't aware that compromises were made to the democratic platform in 2016 in response to Bernie and his supports, that makes me extremely skeptical that you're actually interested in "compromise" or "unity" to begin with.
All of this, they compromised with Bernie in 2016 and he sent Cornell West up there to sit on committees . Could not SMH hard enough
Thank you for this. Way too much of the thread discourse is talking past each other.
Biden and Bernie going forward to draft party policy for the general is the ideal scenario.
I do not mean to be inflammatory, but this just reads like projection to me.
The base has moved left. Biden has moved left. Bernie has not moved anywhere, even after losing in 2016.
So basically Biden just failing upward and getting lucky. Didn't campaign at all, ran almost entirely on being Obama's best bud. Snaps at people at his rallies and tells them to vote for Trump. Has a history of violating women's personal space. Won the primary entirely because of a single endorsement in SC. Referred to a would-be supporter as a "lying dog-faced pony soldier" when they said they had caucused before. Shits on younger generations constantly.
Amazing how doors just open for this guy. I have no hope for this country anymore.
I dont think progressives in general have been the ones calling for unity. Just like civil rights activists werent calling for unity with people oppressing them or finding a way to compromise. Theye calling for radical and fundamental change to the institutions killing them, because its morally and pragmatically the only way forward for all of us.
Early votes somewhere? Thought there weren't elections until Tuesday.
Early voting is going on in Florida and other states currently.
And that has to do with
in what way exactly?
e:That reads to me like Sou da doesn't care about the prison population which I seem to remember is part of Sanders policy.
It's amazing to me too, but when you come down to it he's a good candidate to beat Trump, and his policies are solid.
There will be areas that progress will me muted, but others that will be good. And all are better than Trump.
I do have to admit that at this point, you could run somebody to the left of Sanders himself and still win which is a gigantic missed opportunity.
Trump might have his cult in November and that's it.
The core? That rich ass liberal white people cuz they got the money. cuz you can't be telling me how this party, actually cares about African American woman cuz I when I look around I don't see the receipts. we always talk about African-American woman being the core of this party yet policies never match , the laws never match that, the talking points never match that. Hell Is remember when Nina Turner got the angry black woman stereotypes even on here .
Early voting is 2 weeks between 7-14 in Orange County Florida
This is maddening.
They should expect to elect progressives this year, in 2 years and more after.
Seriously this is getting nowhere if downticket isn't getting more people who support your views.
If anything Congress is more important than the presidency by quite the margin.
It has nothing to do with making a case. Exit polls show that voters don't give a shit about the issues this election cycle, all they care about is beating Trump. Biden getting the Clyburn endorsement right before Super Tuesday was all he needed to propel him to victory.
I'm not sure our statements disagree. A case isn't just issue-based.
Establishment Dems really hate it when someone else is saying 'we need to do better' huh?
You're right this isn't the end of anything. I just feel like true progress is never going to come in this country. And I have zero faith in Biden or any Republican to take much needed measures on critical issues like Climate change. The obstacles to progress seem insurmountable.
This is still america, 12% of the population voting 90% can only do so much
- They're higher for Sanders than the vote totals
- Sanders wins independents and newly registered Democrats across ALL crosstabs
The only realistic explanation for the ladder is that Sanders, not Joe, is bringing people into the primary who would otherwise not be there.
Primary voters are richer, whiter, older, and better educated than both the general population (all people), the general electorate (eligible voters), and the actual electorate (those who vote).
The other very key difference is in party identification. Primaries are mainly those who already identify with the party, and who benefit from this association. Not to be too tautological, but as the institutional choice Biden is who the institution is choosing.
They are not a representative population of anyone, but they are a reliable base. Primary voters will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is in good numbers. (I think the two counterfactuals to this are Mondale '84 who alienated the youth wing and Clinton '08 who had mobilised her racist WASP base so hard that they ended up as permanent Republicans, but in both cases the loss was ~20% of candidate supporters).
In the General your base, your primary voters, those who ID with the party are not really up for grabs.
If you don't recognize the difference between primary voters and the electorate then you will fail in your analysis of the general.
If you think that the primary process is democratic (small 'D'), then you are misinterpreting it. Which is not to say that I think the general election process isn't gerrymandered and rigged as hell, but that there are fewer institutional barriers to participation.
Yes.
Turn this logic on it's head. Are there "Secret Biden voters" who aren't participating or motivated to vote now? Because if primary voters are the ceiling then he's fucked.
I wouldn't say that. The tectonic plates underlying order are shifting so rapidly right now that anyone who claims with certainty anything about next week is full of shit, let alone what will happen in November.
I do believe that Sanders presents a better chance to bring in independents, is stronger in debates, and conversely has a better shot of taking out Trump. Moreover represents a real opportunity to restrict US Imperialism, which is my motivating interest in this shit. I'd prefer fewer of my friends to die, and I have no faith in a Joe Biden administration to curb interventionist bullshit throughout the world.
I agree, which is why they unified behind a candidate yelling "revolution" and "down with the establishment."
But we have now learned that is not a winning strategy to garner enough support, even among those groups who would benefit from radical change.
We have also learned that it is not the policies that are the issue, as they have great support from the voters. The problem is the message, and once a more savvy unifying candidate comes along that can participate in the Democratic party while also advocating for those policies, it will be a winning combination, provided those progressives who support Bernie can get behind a Dem candidate pushing all the policies they want without screaming revolution, which remains to be seen.
What these last two primaries have showed us is that if you want progressive change, you have to do it from the inside. You cannot rail against the "establishment Democrats" and expect voters to unify behind you in large enough numbers.
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