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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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I've come to the conclusion that Biden supporters and moderate Democrats are comfortable the way it is now. All they want is to not have to hear Trump speak and make sure their stock markets are stable the keep them wealthy. Only then will they throw the scraps to the disenfranchised and we'll only slowly suffer instead of suffer quickly.
The only way this country will care about the disenfranchised is if they get pulled down to our level. Then they'll suddenly care.
Really, you genuinely care? What does sitting out do for the progressive cause and removing the politics of a decade ago?
This certainly escalated unnecessarily. Nobody is "jumping on the Jew." If you think that saying "Bernie Sanders also shared similar views as Joe Biden regarding busing and integration in the 70's" is an attack on Bernie (when funnily enough, you were the one to initiate that line of discussion), then I don't know what to tell you.
There's a difference between standing up, voicing your thoughts and hoping to bring about change compared to angrily attacking everyone, even those who largely agrees with your priorities but may disagree on its execution. One is helpful. I hope you can take a breath and realize which one it is.
EDIT: Wait, you're this angry about an election that you can't vote in and telling us who actually will be making the decision how blindly ignorant we are and how you already enjoy everything Bernie proposes in Canada. Wow, lol.
You live in Maryland. Your vote is effectively irrelevant given the hard blue margins in the state, allowing you a zero-consequences vote.
Thousands of people are dying because of incompetent leadership and people have the gall to count themselves as genuine because they don't think it's worth voting for competent leadership. I've never been happier to be disingenuous. You know, the way we talk about coalition building has totally inverted this cycle.
Even that's debatable. Bernie doesn't support removing the filibuster and the previous week's have shown he doesn't do a good job courting Democrats. What turned out to be the biggest issue for the ACA were the 'Blue Dog Democrats.' Bernie would have the same issue getting them aboard. This is the case where Biden's relationships could result in a better outcome.
I'll still vote for Bernie in my state's primary, but come the general election my finger is coming down on the button next to the Dem nominee's name like a thunderbolt.
Anybody else notices that a lot of the more aggressive posters in this thread are not-Americans?
I will support Biden. But clearly we have different priorities. I don't think we can rely on Joe Biden to have the same stance wrt Israel-Palestine as Bernie does. I don't think we can rely on him to not be as interventionist in South America or the Middle East. If Joe Biden's foreign policy is half as bad as Obama's - that's still several hundred people that will be killed in drone strikes or intentionally immiserated by sanctions. I don't like pretending like they're equal, because on the issues I really care about - they're really not at all. And John Kerry's recents comments as a surrogate for Biden, criticizing Bernie's support for "authoritarian dictators" in Latin American countries like "Morales", or lying about Joe Biden's support for the Iraq War is not convincing me that we care about the same things.
User Warned: Trolling
LOL you're more subtle than I would have been.
If these cods aren't privileged as fuck, I would just flat out call them Russian.
See I'm somewhat confused, I was told that Bernie voters are small and irrelevant and they didn't turn out anyway so fuck them. But also the entire election and the fate of humanity depends on these specific voters showing up in November and voting for Biden. But also we can't budge to the left at all or give any kind of concessions to Bernie voters because they lost and are irrelevant and too small of a voting bloc to care about anyway. But also we desperately need them to vote for Biden. He is entitled to their vote. But also nobody is entitled to your vote.
Uggggh does anybody have ibuprofen?
Uggggh does anybody have ibuprofen?
Hypothetically speaking I think Warren could work just as well getting Democrats on board, but would work better against the Republicans because she totally understands that they are insincere amoral garbage monsters.
I think that it may be possible to *push* Biden further than his platform plans if he can be shown that the support is there and it works. Because he said himself that if he got a M4A billed that worked, he'd sign it.
Do the many disenfranchised voters who seem to prefer Biden not count?
A lot of people are going to die unnecessarily because you have a narcissistic president who is currently badly fucking up the response to a global pandemic because he is utterly incapable of caring about anybody but himself or making decisions through any other lens apart from what is good for him, and only him, in the short term. Biden, for all his flaws, would be handling it much, much better.
I hope you and your understandably disappointed brethren take things like that into consideration when it comes to voting time in November, since you care so much about making things better.
Because clearly, electing Dems here in VA has done absolutely nothing good for you or me here in the state and it's just the same for us as when the GOP held a trifecta.
You don't need Ibuprofen to knock down the strawman you set up, go for it.
yeah, watching all this is frustrating. the enemy is irrelevant but need to be whipped into line type shit.
I'm ok with saying that the US population is ignorant and has made horrible decisions that have negatively impacted the world and killed it's own citizens.
Spend more time being angry about how the majority of you are in debt or dying of healthcare. That's not normal and don't treat it as such.
Who is holding all these beliefs concurrently?
We should work as hard as possible to hold Biden accountable and push him left. The party supports the progressive policies and that's why people shouldn't take their ball and go home, but work even harder to make sure the party reflects the desires of its constituency.
This is true. If I lived across the border in VA or particularly PA, it would be a harder choice. I think I still would just vote downticket though? Joe Biden's policies don't represent my beliefs and he hasn't earned my vote. I think on the left we need to be more discriminating moving forward, I've been saying this the last couple of years- don't assume you are entitled to our votes. You are going to have to work to earn them. Biden isn't going to do that. In addition, his record on race is disqualifying right out of the gate. His record on foreign policy is disqualifying, right out of the gate.
We are already seeing, as was the case w/ Clinton, that many liberals are not actually okay with criticizing their candidate for any reason. Point out a deficiency in Biden's policies and the response is "it's better than Obama's!"
What individual here has all these viewpoints? I'm honestly curious.
I'm a disabled, unemployed trans woman who can't afford medical care, and who has to make a phone call to a lawyer next week to try and convince the company they represent not to take my Chromebook in small claims court to cover debt I can no longer pay.
I'm not comfortable. I'm not safe. I'm sure as hell not well off.
All or nothing voting actively harms me. It's not a righteous position, it's not an ethical stand, it's simply moralistic masturbation. Something you do for yourself that makes you feel good and helps no one else.
Biden wasn't my candidate. He was at the bottom of my list of people I'm okay with and I didn't want him to run at all, but he's going to be the nominee. That's just a fact. I can't afford to sit this one out, 4 more years of Trump will probably kill me.
I don't usually post because I have anxiety issues and honestly confrontation sends me into a panic, just typing this is making me freak out because of how heated this conversation has become - but I keep feeling like people are talking over my experience reading this thread. I'm marginalized. I'm asking for help. Please vote out Trump.
I'm not comfortable. I'm not safe. I'm sure as hell not well off.
All or nothing voting actively harms me. It's not a righteous position, it's not an ethical stand, it's simply moralistic masturbation. Something you do for yourself that makes you feel good and helps no one else.
Biden wasn't my candidate. He was at the bottom of my list of people I'm okay with and I didn't want him to run at all, but he's going to be the nominee. That's just a fact. I can't afford to sit this one out, 4 more years of Trump will probably kill me.
I don't usually post because I have anxiety issues and honestly confrontation sends me into a panic, just typing this is making me freak out because of how heated this conversation has become - but I keep feeling like people are talking over my experience reading this thread. I'm marginalized. I'm asking for help. Please vote out Trump.
I feel like what's going on in Virginia needs to be stickied in this thread or something. It (REALLY) helps that State Senates don't have 60% threshold filibusters but man its like every day they are signing some new awesome law. If that could be replicated at the Federal level that would be a massive improvement for the country. Or hell, even the bills the current House has already passed that are rotting in the GOP Senate. If all that shit could become law it would be like revolutionary. Legislation wise that's the Biden Presidency (assuming we also get the Senate). It's not everything a progressive would want but damn is it a lot of things any progressive could want.
It is a little confusing. If Biden loses we will 100% get the blame, even though Biden won't move left. Party unity goes in only one direction, I'm afraid.
A political candidate is not an identity. Treating one as though a utilitarian choice is actually an identity is the exact opposite of how to best approach elections.
But this is what I'm getting at...Democrats get into office and possibly do the bare minimum on some issues (while ignoring others) and then when we complain or ask that they do more, they threaten to turn us over to the GOP. "Who else you gonna vote for, bud?"
electiblity
you can see people's join date and history so idk where these accusations are coming from
the whole russian psy-op narrative is actually so insulting to dissenters, I would really encourage you to take this comment back
or they're from other anglosphere nations and need Americans to get their shit together.
you can see people's join date and history so idk where these accusations are coming from
the whole russian psy-op narrative is actually so insulting to dissenters, I would really encourage you to take this comment back
Rather Russian spy than for people to ACTUALLY be this self gratifying blowing their own crotch out of some selfish desire to not give a shit about others.
"i aIn't cOmPrOmIsInG My vAlUeS!" says guy with access to internet on a video game forum. Which video games are made from less than good working conditions
If not Russian then privileged as fuck. And let's not act like that Europe has it together right now.
You say when talking about Virginia of all places.
The only way you can consider what has happened there being "the bare minimum" is if your definition of bare minimum is "exactly what I want how I want it."
Let's be realistic, Biden doesn't have to do crap for the progressive left once he's in office. Most of his time he'll sit be sitting in the office reversing all of the executive orders Trump put out. any other laws that are approved by congress are going to be trickle-down moderate safe laws that will a please the moderate voters but piss off the progressive voters.
I have a feeling Biden is going to be in office for the next four years, but I don't trust this president to Implement any Progressive laws in his four-year running. I also expect the Republicans to reGAIN house/Senate positions in 2022 and 2024 if there isn't any progress from the progressive left in the next two years.
Democrats need to be very careful in the next 4 years.
The poster came into the thread guns blazing looking for a fight. They wanted this type of reaction by insulting everyone that isn't a die hard Bernie fan even through his likely defeat.
"It's so depressing to see this many ideological cowards in one place. So many people believe in nothing it seems. They don't give a shit about poor people."
we live in a society, whoo.
if were going to do this at least let us be from somewhere more cool...no one really expects senegalese spies.
worse because it ignores the proproganda being spread right here in the good ol USA. no need to cross seas for troll farms or other narrative pushers.
no winning out here lol.
Compared to the comparable developed nations in Europe, Biden is Center-Right, as are most of the platforms of the Democratic party because they fundamentally ascribe more value to Capitalism and the free market than genuinely left leaning politics ever would. We're the richest nation in the world and we're closer to a Russian oligarchy than we are to a Swedish democracy right now. The US should be compared to similar Western democracies and Western powers because that's the frame of reference for us as such a rich country.
But yes call me xenophobic because I make the relevant comparison and say America should be considerably more progressive than what the Democratic party mostly offers given its own supposed cultural values and absolutely insane wealth in comparison to considerably more progressive countries that actually do something for the everyday citizens of their country with that wealth instead of building an utterly pointless military industrial complex to secure oil and bomb anyone who threatens them, and say that "If you take the average of left to right wing existence across the world, the US is actually very far left" while not realizing how much of an absolutely awful condemnation of how far the world has slipped into increasingly right wing lunacy and authoritarian tendencies. The left has largely not been allowed to exist globally for some time and we're only really seeing it come back into focus after people started to become disillusioned with the neo-liberal status quo.
The Democratic party has never been a legitimately leftist party at any point in history. It's left leaning relative to other parties, but has never been a leftist party except for in the moth scathing of Fox News propaganda pieces. Progressive at times? Absolutely. But genuinely left? Absolutely fucking not.
I disagree that Biden wouldn't be willing to sign off on progressive legislation. Congress crafts the policy, and I don't really buy that Biden will want to fight his own party on crafting policy that is popular with the voterbase. The polling shows that people are ready for change and not just 4 more years of no progress. It's on us to push our legislators to craft that policy. If Democrats take back the senate, progressives like Bernie and Warren will hold quite a bit of power in ensuring the policy is held to a higher standard. Was Biden in my top 3 of choices this primary? No, but we still have an opportunity to enact needed change by removing a Republican president and majority Senate from the equation.
Feel free to mock me in 2-4 years if Biden vetoes m4a, free college, etc.
in fairness to that poster, Biden just the other day said he'd veto M4A if it passed both houses. That's a pretty strong signal that he's serious about being anti-progressive policies.
But how do we hold him accountable?
The only way to hold a politician accountable is to threaten to withhold your vote (well, unless you subscribe to...other ideologies).
To be clear: I'm going to vote for Biden. But it's solely a harm-reduction method, and it is being done under duress. The Democratic Party holds everyone in this country hostage by doing jack-shit to help working-class people in this country or elsewhere and then threatening to turn us over to fascists if we don't constantly do as they say.
You guys demand that we "vote blue no matter who." So we do. Then when the Blue Team gets into office, we criticize them and demand accountability. They do absolutely nothing. After years of doing nothing, they get blown out in a midterm or general and we get blamed for it, for some reason. We didn't fight hard enough, we criticized them too much, we demanded too much "purity" because we asked Obama not to drop a bomb on a school or lock a family in a cage for crossing the border.
We are smugly informed that if we want to affect real change, we should go nominate and vote for candidates who support those values. But then the national party apparatus and the corporate media, the most powerful propaganda apparatus in human history, fights back against us every single step of the way to ensure our candidates can't win. And then when they lose, we're smugly informed that it was because we just didn't fight hard enough, so get back in line and vote for whatever corporate stooge we've annointed.
After decades of this happening, eventually some people start to realize that there is one weapon they have that seems to get these people scared: threatening not to vote at all. Like a worker going on strike, we start to question whether causing some short-term damage might cause long-term benefit by reminding our overlords that they only succeed because we let them succeed.
A vote for Biden, from myself and others, is solely done to reduce harm here in the short-term. If Biden wins, we are going to be loud and angry and make sure that you people remember what it is that we asked for and you haven't given us. We'll see if he listens. And if he doesn't, we'll be right back here in 2024 having the same conversation, where some of us will be forced to once again make this same choice.
Oh, I totally understand the concern, but I just believe when push comes to shove, he won't shred policy that's sent to his table by his party.
I don't think you'd have to worry about a M4A bill hitting the president's desk during his term, anyway. It likely wouldn't get the nod from enough Dems, much less GOP.
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