Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

Chaos Legion · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
Joe Biden worried in 1977 that certain de-segregation policies would cause his children to grow up 'in a racial jungle'

"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle," Biden said.

www.businessinsider.com

Fuck Joe Biden. People are doing the same shit with Hillary when they excused her anti-gay marriage stance.

Centrism is fucking awful

Oof. You're going to be shocked when you find out Bernie Sanders said pretty much the same thing in the 1970's in regards to busing.

shinra-bansho · Mar 12, 2020

Foffy said:
I know we're looking at 2016 under new eyes because of the current climate, but how much of the current climate is driven by anti-Trump? Can't that boost Biden? I'm a bit confused for the people saying there was an anti-X sentiment in 2016 but there isn't one in play now, when it's clear that there is. After all, the candidate winning these states is not the one who is pushing the idea winning in these states, such as the health care policy that tackles private insurance. The man winning isn't the one with the winning issues, so how is there not a massive anti-Trump sentiment happening now?

The man that's winning.

🤔🤔🤔

Geg · Mar 12, 2020

Steel said:
I think you're confusing online narrative with reality. The anti-Biden sentiment is almost entirely online. Even Bernie Sanders himself is friends with the guy and he wasn't friends with Hillary. Anti-Hillary sentiment was very much a thing in reality, however, because it had been festering and sowed for decades.

This reminds me I was talking to a friend on Tuesday night who was upset at the state of the primary, and when I mentioned that Sanders and Biden are at least actual friends so his endorsement won't feel as forced as it did with Hillary she said something like "I don't believe that at all, biden represents the opposite of everything bernie stands for." I hope sentiments like that can go away over time

jeelybeans · Mar 12, 2020

Aaron said:
Biden supports paid medical leave though?

There's that stupid chart going around that shows Biden against all of Bernie's positions, on the medical leave question they had to rig it by casting Bernie's position as "more than 12 weeks" so Biden just supporting the 12 weeks doesn't count, but they don't explore any of Biden's actual positions on those issues.

He'll probably say as much at his faux-presidential address today.

Speaking of, I hate those comparison images. So fucking disingenuous. I would vote for Bernie in a primary over Biden (I want to shift the party left), but the shit coming out of Bernie internet camps is really disgusting and turns me off to their movement.

Kongroo · Mar 12, 2020

Chaos Legion said:
Oof. You're going to be shocked when you find out Bernie Sanders said pretty much the same thing in the 1970's in regards to busing.

Yes. lets fucking jump on the jew who got arrested during the civil rights movement. The jew who's been ideologically consistent his whole damn life. There is not a single politician with a better track record than Bernie.

The US doesn't deserve Bernie Sanders. Honestly. That would bring you to parity with the rest of the developed world. But oh no, can't have that. You need Joe Biden, the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage clown who repeatedly has shown contempt for millennials.

The US deserves Trump at this point. You don't need republicans to sabotage M4A when democrats will do it for you. There are too many ideological idiots that needed a Trump administration to wake up to social issues and inequality. Guess what? The US didn't work for most people BEFORE Trump. Has Joe Biden even said anything about student loan forgiveness?

So many of you become complacent as soon as there's a democrat in the office. Be angry that you don't have M4A. Stay angry until you get it. Instead, what will happen if Joe becomes president is that many will refuse to criticize him because that would be "ammo" for republicans. Fuck that. Fight for a better world or fuck off.

Kongroo · Mar 12, 2020

jeelybeans said:
Speaking of, I hate those comparison images. So fucking disingenuous. I would vote for Bernie in a primary over Biden (I want to shift the party left), but the shit coming out of Bernie internet camps is really disgusting and turns me off to their movement.

the dog coffin percussionist has logged on on Twitter

“this is a good & true meme”

twitter.com

Zastava · Mar 12, 2020

^ a take so hot I think it burnt out my retinas.

lmcfigs · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
Yes. lets fucking jump on the jew who got arrested during the civil rights movement. The jew who's been ideologically consistent his whole damn life. There is not a single politician with a better track record than Bernie.

The US doesn't deserve Bernie Sanders. Honestly. That would bring you to parity with the rest of the developed world. But oh no, can't have that. You need Joe Biden, the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage clown who repeatedly has shown contempt for millennials.

The US deserves Trump at this point. You don't need republicans to sabotage M4A when democrats will do it for you. There are too many ideological idiots that needed a Trump administration to wake up to social issues and inequality. Guess what? The US didn't work for most people BEFORE Trump. Has Joe Biden even said anything about student loan forgiveness?

So many of you become complacent as soon as there's a democrat in the office. Be angry that you don't have M4A. Stay angry until you get it. Instead, what will happen if Joe becomes president is that many will refuse to criticize him because that would be "ammo" for republicans. Fuck that. Fight for a better world or fuck off.

we've gone from "Joe Biden is bad, but don't worry he'll flounder once the race starts" to "Joe Biden has always been really good, actually" real fucking quick on this forum.

jeelybeans · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
Yes. lets fucking jump on the jew who got arrested during the civil rights movement. The jew who's been ideologically consistent his whole damn life. There is not a single politician with a better track record than Bernie.

The US doesn't deserve Bernie Sanders. Honestly. That would bring you to parity with the rest of the developed world. But oh no, can't have that. You need Joe Biden, the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage clown who repeatedly has shown contempt for millennials.

The US deserves Trump at this point. You don't need republicans to sabotage M4A when democrats will do it for you. There are too many ideological idiots that needed a Trump administration to wake up to social issues and inequality. Guess what? The US didn't work for most people BEFORE Trump. Has Joe Biden even said anything about student loan forgiveness?

So many of you become complacent as soon as there's a democrat in the office. Be angry that you don't have M4A. Stay angry until you get it. Instead, what will happen if Joe becomes president is that many will refuse to criticize him because that would be "ammo" for republicans. Fuck that. Fight for a better world or fuck off.

Who is jumping on him? The poster simply said that Bernie has also made problematic statements regarding segregation before. Nobody said he didn't show up at protests. You can't accuse Biden of being some centrist shill on the foundation of past statements and then get upset if someone mentions Bernie's past statements.

Indiana Jones · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
Yes. lets fucking jump on the jew who got arrested during the civil rights movement. The jew who's been ideologically consistent his whole damn life. There is not a single politician with a better track record than Bernie.

The US doesn't deserve Bernie Sanders. Honestly. That would bring you to parity with the rest of the developed world. But oh no, can't have that. You need Joe Biden, the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage clown who repeatedly has shown contempt for millennials.

The US deserves Trump at this point. You don't need republicans to sabotage M4A when democrats will do it for you. There are too many ideological idiots that needed a Trump administration to wake up to social issues and inequality. Guess what? The US didn't work for most people BEFORE Trump. Has Joe Biden even said anything about student loan forgiveness?

So many of you become complacent as soon as there's a democrat in the office. Be angry that you don't have M4A. Stay angry until you get it. Instead, what will happen if Joe becomes president is that many will refuse to criticize him because that would be "ammo" for republicans. Fuck that. Fight for a better world or fuck off.

He's ideologically consistent except on guns and immigration and spending trillions on F-35 jets.

Bernie Sanders is fine, but he's a career politician with flaws just like Biden.

shinra-bansho · Mar 12, 2020

Someone needs to take a chill pill.
Also, why did you randomly insert that he's a Jew.

Kongroo · Mar 12, 2020

lmcfigs said:
we've gone from "Joe Biden is bad, but don't worry he'll flounder once the race starts" to "Joe Biden has always been really good, actually" real fucking quick on this forum.

It's so depressing to see this many ideological cowards in one place. So many people believe in nothing it seems. They don't give a shit about poor people.

jeelybeans · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
the dog coffin percussionist has logged on on Twitter

“this is a good & true meme”

twitter.com

Being progressive and getting shit done working in the confines of the system doesn't mean you don't care about poor people. (Ridiculous that that sentence has to be written out). Not endorsing Bernie or not dropping out early enough (even though all math and data and the facts after the drop out proved otherwise) does not mean you don't support poor people or progressive policy that helps poor people. You can't go around getting what you want kicking and screaming at people and accusing them of false things and then be upset when no one shows up to support you.

Also it's really fucking disgusting you are going around calling people ideological cowards. A lot of people in this thread work on policy, in campaigns, for non profits, do community organizing, etc etc. They have invested money, sweat, and emotional energy into helping people and pushing the country left. Your attitude is revolting.

Madison · Mar 12, 2020

lmcfigs said:
we've gone from "Joe Biden is bad, but don't worry he'll flounder once the race starts" to "Joe Biden has always been really good, actually" real fucking quick on this forum.

Yuuuup, its depressing

Kemal86 · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
It's so depressing to see this many ideological cowards in one place. So many people believe in nothing it seems. They don't give a shit about poor people.

Bernie lost every county in Mississippi. Are poor people in Mississippi ideological cowards who don't give a shit about poor people? It's not just us neoliberal shills who didn't vote for Bernie!

shinra-bansho · Mar 12, 2020

Joe Biden kinda sucks, but his platform is left of Hillary whose platform was left of Obama's, and he'll be the nominee and the alternative is Trump.

CobaltBlu · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
It's so depressing to see this many ideological cowards in one place. So many people believe in nothing it seems. They don't give a shit about poor people.

Being an ideological fundamentalist and throwing a tantrum doesn't get you anything instead of getting you what you can. We live in a democracy so building winning coalitions with broader bases is important.

Ithil · Mar 12, 2020

Opto said:
Dude has done nothing to persuade me he'd change anything other than 'not be Trump.' I'm not compromising my vote.

Don't worry, you've done that just fine yourself.

lmcfigs · Mar 12, 2020

Yeah I think when I heard Biden surrogate, John Kerry, call Evo Morales a dictator the other day and Biden criticizing protesters for climate change as "Bernie Bros" I think: "yes these are my allies. These are the people on my side."

Zombegoast · Mar 12, 2020

jeelybeans said:
Speaking of, I hate those comparison images. So fucking disingenuous. I would vote for Bernie in a primary over Biden (I want to shift the party left), but the shit coming out of Bernie internet camps is really disgusting and turns me off to their movement.

As oppose to Hillary supporters believing Obama wasn't born in the US? Or when they attack a homeless black women for voting Trump because democrats use them as a prop to get votes.

Or the Never Bernie movement that'll give Trump the edge if he became the nominee?

Kongroo · Mar 12, 2020

CobaltBlu said:
Being an ideological fundamentalist and throwing a tantrum doesn't get you anything instead of getting you what you can. We live in a democracy so building winning coalitions with broader bases is important.

Ah yes the winning coalitions that have gotten the USA fucking nowhere in terms of medical care. People die every day in your country because cowards let it happen. You will defend everything Biden does because party identity is more important than solving actual problems.

Kemal86 said:
Bernie lost every county in Mississippi. Are poor people in Mississippi ideological cowards who don't give a shit about poor people? It's not just us neoliberal shills who didn't vote for Bernie!

awesome :) let's celebrate the fact that Biden literally doesn't have a disability platform. Let's celebrate all the vulnerable people that get screwed by Biden. IDGAF if you like Bernie personally. His policies are the future of your country. Settling for less is getting people killed. So congrats on that.

jeelybeans · Mar 12, 2020

Zombegoast said:
As oppose to Hillary supporters believing Obama wasn't born in the US? Or when they attack a homeless black women for voting Trump because democrats use them as a prop to get votes.

Or the Never Bernie movement that'll give Trump the edge if he became the nominee?

Why are you bringing up Hillary? I didn't even say anything about Hillary.

Tobor · Mar 12, 2020

Bernie is done.

The choice now is Biden or Trump. Who is better for poor people between those two? Who is better for the working class between those two? Who OF THOSE TWO will be better for progressives to try and push left.

That last point is key. Progressives who want to keep up this fight will need to try and push a party platform. Which party platform can be pushed? Which candidate can you try and work with?

Tamanon · Mar 12, 2020

Unifying is going well in here.

EricTheGamerman · Mar 12, 2020

Calling Biden a center-right politician with occasional sparks of slightly more left, though certainly not leftist, rhetoric and policies should not be controversial because that's exactly what he is. The entire political spectrum basically exists from the center to the authoritarian right and any sort of real left leaning existence just simply does not exist, with even Bernie being a slightly left of center politician by most modern standards.

Aaron · Mar 12, 2020

jeelybeans said:
Speaking of, I hate those comparison images. So fucking disingenuous. I would vote for Bernie in a primary over Biden (I want to shift the party left), but the shit coming out of Bernie internet camps is really disgusting and turns me off to their movement.

Speaks to how ignorant people are to Biden's actual positions when they get fooled by something as troll-y as this:

It's a troll because Biden already supports those things. All the people who are like "oh well Bernie needs to stay in to push Biden to the left"? You can probably still squeeze a few more things out of him (legalizing weed rather than just decriminalizing it, and a more comprehensive student loan debt forgiveness program would be a start), but overall, mission accomplished, he'd be the furthest left president if elected, provided he was able to deliver on those things.

Bringing up his past record or questioning his ability or desire to pursue his platform in earnest are fine, as are genuine distinctions between his platform and Bernie's, but don't sit here and act like, for example, "Biden doesn't support a living wage" or "Biden doesn't support paid medical leave" when his positions on those issues line up with Bernie's almost perfectly.

And the reality is, whatever the next President can accomplish legislatively comes down to who controls Congress and by how much. You want Biden to be a leftist president? Make sure leftist Democrats are winning downticket. Flipping the Senate is the bare minimum, ideally the majority is padded out as far as possible so that Democrats don't constantly have to hustle for Joe Manchin's vote by watering down legislation. Bernie and Warren will still be in the Senate, they can still yank legislation to the left.

viskod · Mar 12, 2020

Joe Biden is "bad" because his platform isn't as progressive as what we could get away with if we retake the Senate. We could definitely push for a little more than what he's got planned.
Joe Biden is "bad" because he naively believes that he can work with Republicans and that they are capable of good faith negotiations.

But just in general, he's not actually awful.

Whether you want to believe it or not, he is running to the left of Obama, and to the left of Clintons platform in 2016. He is some progress, even if it's not as much as you'd like.

The Democratic nominee after him, can move even further than Biden, even if they brand their selves as a "moderate".

Ithil · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
Biden is a republican-lite on conservatism is awful.

Yes he's better than Trump but he still needs to get shredded on most of his positions until he becomes a somewhat left-leaning candidate. Y'all are about to have an election where it's a right wing candiate vs an extreme right wing candidate.

Never forget that Biden was a concession VP. A extremely conservative "democrat" to make Obama appeal to southern voters.

Ah yes, the Delaware Senator, sure to appeal to Southern voters.
Meanwhile, in reality, Biden was a moderate Democrat chosen because of his 30+ years of experience in the Senate countering what was seen as a weakness of Obama, which was his lack of experience, having only just started his first term as Senator a couple of years earlier after coming from the state legislature. An experienced and well liked statesman at Obama's side completed the ticket.

That's moderate by the way, not conservative. As in the middle of the the Democratic caucus, not the US at large. There were far more conservative Dem Senators in the Dem caucus of 2008, several of them did damage to the ACA, like Lieberman. Biden ran to the left of Obama on some issues, in fact. You're absolutely full of it and it's clear you know nothing about Biden beyond tweets you saw with roses attached.

Googleplex · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
It's so depressing to see this many ideological cowards in one place. So many people believe in nothing it seems. They don't give a shit about poor people.

All of the poor black folk that supported Biden are ideological cowards now?

Ithil · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
It's so depressing to see this many ideological cowards in one place. So many people believe in nothing it seems. They don't give a shit about poor people.

Poor people are voting for Biden.

lmcfigs · Mar 12, 2020

Googleplex said:
All of the poor black folk that supported Biden are ideological cowards now?

yeah I wonder if it's possible to say that people made a harmful decision in voting for Biden, or that they don't care about what his foreign policy would look like, particularly in the Middle East, without calling them ideological cowards. Poor republican voters in the south also make bad decisions when they vote for Trump.

Deleted member 4346 · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
It's so depressing to see this many ideological cowards in one place. So many people believe in nothing it seems. They don't give a shit about poor people.

Yeah. We'll see what happens in November but a lot of the left, those of us who genuinely care about making things better and not trying to return to the politics of a decade ago, are going to sit this one out. This primary has been too nakedly a pushback against progressive change.

Moderate Dems about to fuck around and find out, nominating Biden. Better hope moderate Republicans in the Rust Belt are buying what they are selling.

Indiana Jones · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
Ah yes the winning coalitions that have gotten the USA fucking nowhere in terms of medical care. People die every day in your country because cowards let it happen. You will defend everything Biden does because party identity is more important than solving actual problems.

awesome :) let's celebrate the fact that Biden literally doesn't have a disability platform. Let's celebrate all the vulnerable people that get screwed by Biden. IDGAF if you like Bernie personally. His policies are the future of your country. Settling for less is getting people killed. So congrats on that.

Health insurance companies have to cover people with pre-existing conditions now because Joe Biden personally convinced a Republican Senator to switch parties and be the 60th vote for the ACA, but go on ranting about how winning coalitions haven't done anything in terms of medical care.

Ithil · Mar 12, 2020

Apharmd said:
Yeah. We'll see what happens in November but a lot of the left, those of us who genuinely care about making things better and not trying to return to the politics of a decade ago, are going to sit this one out. This primary has been too nakedly a pushback against progressive change.

Moderate Dems about to fuck around and find out, nominating Biden.

What an absolute load. Get over yourself.

Kongroo · Mar 12, 2020

Ithil said:
Ah yes, the Delaware Senator, sure to appeal to Southern voters.
Meanwhile, in reality, Biden was a moderate Democrat chosen because of his 30+ years of experience in the Senate countering what was seen as a weakness of Obama, which was his lack of experience, having only just started his first term as Senator a couple of years earlier after coming from the state legislature. An experienced and well liked statesman at Obama's side completed the ticket.

That's moderate by the way, not conservative. As in the middle of the the Democratic caucus, not the US at large. There were far more conservative Dem Senators in the Dem caucus of 2008, several of them did damage to the ACA, like Lieberman. Biden ran to the left of Obama on some issues, in fact. You're absolutely full of it and it's clear you know nothing about Biden beyond tweets you saw with roses attached.

I've said before that I agree, Biden is left-wing...for America. And that's exactly what's fucked up about it. He's not left-wing anywhere else in the world. It's fine to vote for him if you believe in conservative ideals though.

Ithil · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
I've said before that I agree, Biden is left-wing...for America. And that's exactly what's fucked up about it. He's not left-wing anywhere else in the world. It's fine to vote for him if you believe in conservative ideals though.

Christ here we go with the "Bernie would be center right in Europe" thing.

Wafflinson · Mar 12, 2020

EricTheGamerman said:
Calling Biden a center-right politician with occasional sparks of slightly more left, though certainly not leftist, rhetoric and policies should not be controversial because that's exactly what he is. The entire political spectrum basically exists from the center to the authoritarian right and any sort of real left leaning existence just simply does not exist, with even Bernie being a slightly left of center politician by most modern standards.

Only if you have an incredibly Xenophobic perspective where you only look at a handful of very progressive western and northern European nations and compare the US to them while excluding most other nations.

If you look at it from a real global view the democratic party is extremely left.

I know that goes against the narrative being pushed by self proclaimed "true progressives". The reality is that Biden isn't even close to center right except for in Bernie Bro's imaginations.

Kongroo · Mar 12, 2020

Apharmd said:
Yeah. We'll see what happens in November but a lot of the left, those of us who genuinely care about making things better and not trying to return to the politics of a decade ago, are going to sit this one out. This primary has been too nakedly a pushback against progressive change.

Moderate Dems about to fuck around and find out, nominating Biden. Better hope moderate Republicans in the Rust Belt are buying what they are selling.

The bigger issue is that nobody is excited to vote for Biden. Trump's second term is going to fuck the US up so bad.

Ithil · Mar 12, 2020

lmcfigs said:
yeah I wonder if it's possible to say that people made a harmful decision in voting for Biden, or that they don't care about what his foreign policy would look like, particularly in the Middle East, without calling them ideological cowards. Poor republican voters in the south also make bad decisions when they vote for Trump.

Apharmd said:
Yeah. We'll see what happens in November but a lot of the left, those of us who genuinely care about making things better and not trying to return to the politics of a decade ago, are going to sit this one out. This primary has been too nakedly a pushback against progressive change.

The sheer arrogance on display here is mind boggling. Do go to those Biden voters and tell them how uninformed they are, and how those uppity types should get in line for your guy.

Kongroo · Mar 12, 2020

Ithil said:
Christ here we go with the "Bernie would be center right in Europe" thing.

the fuck are you on about. Just about all of Bernie's policies are already a thing where I live, in Canada. Fuck your country's complacency.

Tamanon · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
The bigger issue is that nobody is excited to vote for Biden. Trump's second term is going to fuck the US up so bad.

I dunno if I agree with the excitement factor. Turnout is way up for him.

alexiswrite · Mar 12, 2020

I think this would be a better place if a lot of people here recognised that arguments between the left and everyone else here are less about differing morals and more about differing theories of how to actually affect political change.

The "I guess none of you care about poor/sick people" posts are borderline shitposts to me. I don't know if anyone here actually doesn't care about these groups.

Ithil · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
The bigger issue is that nobody is excited to vote for Biden. Trump's second term is going to fuck the US up so bad.

Yet turnout is up for him.

CobaltBlu · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
The bigger issue is that nobody is excited to vote for Biden. Trump's second term is going to fuck the US up so bad.

The cognitive dissonance here is pretty wild.

Osu 16 Bit · Mar 12, 2020

Calling Biden an anti-gay marriage clown makes no sense when gay marriage is a key example of why electing a moderate democrat is still a significant improvement over a republican. Gay folks can get married now in large part because John McCain lost and I'm not going to prevent things like that from happening because Biden was against gay marriage decades ago.

On social issues there has to be some nuance to how you judge their record. Ideally the nominee would be someone that has always been on the right side, but the reality is most people are not, but that doesn't mean they're not genuine now, and it makes no sense and isn't helpful to disqualify them and allow republicans to remain in power.

viskod · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
The bigger issue is that nobody is excited to vote for Biden. Trump's second term is going to fuck the US up so bad.

Are you just literally immune to data? Voter turnout has been up by an insane amount.

Wafflinson · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
The bigger issue is that nobody is excited to vote for Biden. Trump's second term is going to fuck the US up so bad.

Turnout numbers disagree.

What you mean is that no one on twitter or message boards are excited to vote for Biden.

Rodderick · Mar 12, 2020

Apharmd said:
Yeah. We'll see what happens in November but a lot of the left, those of us who genuinely care about making things better and not trying to return to the politics of a decade ago, are going to sit this one out. This primary has been too nakedly a pushback against progressive change.

Moderate Dems about to fuck around and find out, nominating Biden. Better hope moderate Republicans in the Rust Belt are buying what they are selling.

If you genuinely cared about making things better you'd actually get involved in the political process to make tough utilitarian decisions about which politician you believe is poised to bring less harm to your country. But you don't give a single shit about making things better, you just want to smell your own farts about how morally superior you are to everyone else and how your "movement" owns a monopoly on virtue and literally everyone else must have nefarious motivations. It's childish at best and I hope there comes a time when a real leftist is elected President so you guys can grapple with the realities of governing and understand that Politics is a rough game, it's the art of making tragic choices, and that using good intentions as a fucking cudgel to beat people with won't get you anywhere.

Deleted member 4346 · Mar 12, 2020

Kongroo said:
The bigger issue is that nobody is excited to vote for Biden. Trump's second term is going to fuck the US up so bad.

The excitement of a Biden candidacy is going to be pretty low but he might still pull it out, with the foundering economy. Trump should get the blame for that, or enough of it for Biden to stumble his way into office. But yeah, if we get a second Trump term, it will 100% be because for the second straight presidential election we chose a nominee who people were not excited to vote for.

lmcfigs · Mar 12, 2020

Ithil said:
The sheer arrogance on display here is mind boggling. Do go to those Biden voters and tell them how uninformed they are, and how those uppity types should get in line for your guy.

the premise of my comment is that they don't care about the things I care about. the dem party/American public in general does not. I don't appreciate your "uppity" comment. I think we're talking past each other.

Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

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