Biden has plans to address all the things you brought up. Not as drastic as Bernie's plans, but they're better than Trump's. How does not voting help?
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Biden has plans to address all the things you brought up. Not as drastic as Bernie's plans, but they're better than Trump's. How does not voting help?
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Why should I think Biden is suddenly going to be better than his past self? Because he promised on a campaign trail? Dude has all the same baggage of Clinton and her post-election self has just shown she hasn't changed.
I'll vote for Joe in the general against Trump because of how repugnant I personally believe Trump to be, but that's as far as I go. I'm not going to try to persuade anyone else to do so, that's up to all the people who wanted him over Bernie. Good luck.
I'm catching up on the day's news. I actually liked Sander's statement alright; from his tone I feel like he understands that the race is over, and that his purpose going forward is to keep the public focus on Biden's platform and response to issues and try to get him to incorporate policies Sander's voters promote into it.
I wish the contest was closer, as I suspect the media's going to lose interest soon, particularly with a global pandemic and looming recession, but hopefully they can at least keep it interesting enough that major speeches get play alongside whatever dumb thing Trump's done as of the moment.
I wish the contest was closer, as I suspect the media's going to lose interest soon, particularly with a global pandemic and looming recession, but hopefully they can at least keep it interesting enough that major speeches get play alongside whatever dumb thing Trump's done as of the moment.
To me it's a thought experiment of having two choices where in even the worst case scenario you have:
Option A: A whole lot of people die
Option B: A whole lot of people die minus one
If it really came down to it, isn't the one less death worth voting for by itself? It's not really vote shaming just more of a philosophical question in pursuing the least amount of harm in any situation.
So if Trump is objectively worse than any Democratic candidate, why not pursue a path of least harm?
Option A: A whole lot of people die
Option B: A whole lot of people die minus one
If it really came down to it, isn't the one less death worth voting for by itself? It's not really vote shaming just more of a philosophical question in pursuing the least amount of harm in any situation.
So if Trump is objectively worse than any Democratic candidate, why not pursue a path of least harm?
"we'll only let half of the people die" is not enough! We're hurtling towards absolute disaster and a half measure is not enough and compromising on it before it's even sent to a hostile senate is going to lead to us having a very nice tree planted by McConnell and a 5% off coupon for every American's WeatherBunker kit
Again, let's assume everything you say is true(which it isnt), but let's say it is. This version of Biden you have in your head is still a VAST improvement over Donald Trump. Like night and day difference.
To some people. To others it'll be just the same only now they'll be told "well it could have been worse!"
"The President is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people because he can't respond to a pandemic, BUT I HAVE MY PRINCIPLES!"
Yeah, and your principles will continue to get people killed, so really, you're not any better than the drone-warfare-waging, weaker-health-care-plan-having neoliberals that you refuse to vote for out of principle, I guess.
Yeah, and your principles will continue to get people killed, so really, you're not any better than the drone-warfare-waging, weaker-health-care-plan-having neoliberals that you refuse to vote for out of principle, I guess.
honestly if trump continues to missmanage this badly, that adress was a joke, Bidan will win 45 states.
Well it'll have to do for now, because we had our chance to elect Bernie and he lost.
We'll do our best with what we have, and try again next time.
There are two possible choices for who will be president in November. You understand that, right?
I mean, if it's climate change you're worried about maybe you shouldn't be supporting the candidate whose climate change action proposal comes pre-compromised to include other general green issues at the expense of actually addressing the central issue of climate change?
and my singular vote isn't going to do a damn thing, so I'll take my vote legitimize neither sexist racist creep
You can't honestly tell me that Biden isn't going to let more people slip through the cracks compared to Bernie
It's not worth the energy to try to convince the Busters to switch. It's their right and privilege to vote or not vote.
But sitting home enables the worse option. If you would have otherwise voted, and voted for the democratic candidate if it was someone else, that means Trump has one fewer vote to overcome if you stay home. That is the same as +1, which is why people say that means you essentially voted for Trump. And you did. Your decision to not vote is one less vote for the democrats, which means one more vote for the republicans. It's a binary system.
Your one vote might not mean much, but your effort exclusively benefits Donald Trump.
Basically what my thoughts are settling into right now. Majority of Bernie fans considering not voting because of being upset are worth convincing (my sister was leaning this way until I explained why it would be a bad idea) but others should just be ignored as they are a lost cause. Let them do whatever.
So I just ignore Biden's harassment of Anita Hill? And his racist crime bill support? And his wandering hands? And literally all of his policies up until
Unless you think he's worse than the only other option...yes? It's not a matter of liking it. There are two possible options. Voting Biden picks the better one. Voting Trump or staying home picks the worse one.
What's going on in this thread reminded me of this. I would link the actual Tweet but he locked his account
anyway I don't think you can talk about how your "one singular vote" doesn't matter while simultaneously going online and telling the entire world why it's OK and morally justified to sit out. you're not just staying at home; you're telling everyone else they should stay at home, too.
I have only talked about my vote. I am not even directing any of the same ire towards the people that are throwing at me
republicans should deff. stay at home, its a very smart thing to do right guys? ;)
Every candidate is going to let things slip through the cracks. We have four years of fixing shit and we may or may not have a senate to even do that. We have to go back and brick by brick rebuild the entirety of the American government that Trump took a tactical nuke to before we could even go forward with pie in the sky dreams and ideas and we have climate change to deal with as well.
Bernie was my guy but he didn't win.
Biden is a dirty, creepy old man that has a lot of ideas about working with the other side that I disagree with. Honestly Bernie lost and Biden is the choice. I have to hold my nose and vote for Biden because our courts, our fellow citizens and people living in cages along with now openly rampant racism has to be dealt with immediately. Four more years of Trump and you think things are bad now?
I agree with what you are saying, when it comes to everything up to the statement of not voting. We don't have the luxury to just sit it out anymore and wish for a better candidate. We build at the grassroots, we work local elections and we grow change from a seed planted locally. Shit sucks it really does, but please think about all the other people that are dependent on systems and polices in place now being eradicated if Trump gets reelected. In the system we have all we have is two choices, not voting is not an option anymore.
Some people have strange empathy. You say you care about people who may suffer by Biden's policies but you'll not vote and contribute to the people who are already suffering under Trump's policies to prove your point. I guess their pain is a sacrifice you're willing to make for your principles. Nevertheless, it's your voice. Do as you will.
User Banned (1 day): inflammatory accusations
I legit wonder how many of these people a Russian troll posters that have been playing long cons. It's been done before and there have been articles about it.
And now we've reached the russian bot level of the discussion.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
I'd say the difference is if you believe a Biden Presidency would give us a 4 year reprieve, while weakening the Democrats and ushering in a competent Fascist the next go around. Where 4 more years of Trump "could" lead to more and more incompetence paving the way for a revolutionary Democrat that can bring a Progressive utopia. You may feel it's morally just to not participate and let the chips land where they may.
And I would call that hypothetical person a god damn idiot.
Not voting does nothing but tell the people running not to bother trying to appeal to you. We've done this song amd dance before. Congratulations, you still don't have Sanders and we've lost two Supreme Court seats.
White people in this country are never going to be uncomfortable enough to revolt so long as they can look at the rest of us and say "At least I'm better off than them."
So I have to vote for shitty compromises to get listened to, but they already have my vote so they don't need to listen to me anymore.
Plus it sounds like you're blaming bernie supporters rather than voter suppression and racists for Trump
That is accelerationism and it's failed, every time. People sat out 2016 because they thought if Trump won they could get Bernie in four years, how's that been working out?
The notion that electing Trump now will somehow head off a more competent Trump in the future is laughable, too. American politics are unfortunately cyclical, the next Dem president could win 2020, 2024 and do a great job and be replaced by a Republican just as easily in 2028. Clinton and Obama were generally regarded by the populace as good presidents, they put up hand-picked successors who both "lost." (Both won the popular vote, which is critical to be mindful of) Whether Trump wins or loses in 2020, a more competent alt-right president is inevitable down the road. In fact, I would see it as even likelier to happen soon if Trump wins again, as it would confirm to any ambitious Republicans that following in his footsteps is the key to success.
And frankly I'm not high on a theory that suggests wanton chaos and destruction is fine in the short-term if it'll pay off later in a glorious political revolution. Some of the most ardent Bernie supporters I've seen talk about Biden's healthcare plan like it would actively murder people, and then turn around and act like people literally dying due to Trump's incompetence is just a toll to pay to cross the Bernie Bridge.
(Not accusing you of saying or supporting any of that, just accelerationism in general)
Obviously the current makeup of the Supreme Court tips the scale and can't be ignored. That has to be the biggest reason to not protest Biden by sitting out.
edit:
Hasn't this been debunked? At least in proportion to Hillary supporters sitting out in 2008?
They still need to listen to you as there is always another election. That's how all of this works.
The only people they don't have to listen to are the people who DONT VOTE.
Your shitty compromise is closer to where you want them to be because people with views hewing your direction voted and made their opinions heard while people with differing views than you voted in even greater number and said your views are too far for their tastes. So, compromise. You get what you want, but not close to the degree you want it, and they remain willing to vote.
Vote more, not less, if you want a louder voice.
Nice edit. You should read my posts closer.
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