Then stop talking about going back to the status quo. It is quite literally not the status quo.
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
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Then stop talking about going back to the status quo. It is quite literally not the status quo.
My issue with Biden is I just don't trust him at all. I'm sure if you looked at the platform Obama had proposed and compare it to what he actually accomplished, what he actually accomplished would be a very small percentage of what he proposed.Biden isn't the status quo. This took less than a minute of searching:
Joe Biden for President: Official Campaign Website
We are in a battle for the soul of this nation. Join our campaign to elect Joe Biden for President of the United States.joebiden.com
And for me probably the biggest issue is climate change. Joe's plan set's a goal of 100% clean energy by 2050. Not only is the far too fucking late, but how the fuck is he going to ensure that a 30 year plan isn't somehow undermined when he will be President for 8 years at most?
Truth is, Biden is a corporate ghoul just like most other democrats and he's going to drag his feet to do the bare fucking minimum to solve the problems facing our country.
Look I know we're currently in a surreal Trump presidency, but even amending that to "business as usual" level of establishment politics is not really a proper chnage.
Look at my last two posts. The math here has nothing to do with polling, it has to do with the actual results we have so far.
Did you expect Sanders would solve climate change in 4-8 years?
You literally argued his policies were that nothing would change. That's what status quo means. Stop saying it. If you want to criticize his plans for not going far enough left, fine. But don't lie about it.
this is a great post
anyone who thinks "it's because racism!" suffices as an explanation for the Democratic Party's failings over the past ~40 years should give A Brief History of Neoliberalism a read
Best buckle up, we are going to have to listen to 9 months of people propping up Uncle Joe and finger wagging those against him/what he represents.
I wonder if Bernie is going to try & stay in as long as possible, maybe more than 1 more debate with Biden.
It's probably not healthy to be honest & is going to make unity more difficult, not sure what progressives are doing in this primary, with Warren being a spoiler for Sanders & Sanders continuing the infighting.
It's probably not healthy to be honest & is going to make unity more difficult, not sure what progressives are doing in this primary, with Warren being a spoiler for Sanders & Sanders continuing the infighting.
What I'm saying is Biden will only look stronger and unequivocally a winner by sweeping most, if not all, of the remaining contests this month. There's not much argument supporters could make at that point, and he'll look stronger by actually winning 1 on 1 against Sanders.
Also, I love that people are like, "Trump won't go in on Biden because it reveals his weaknesses..." Have we learned absolutely nothing about Trump these past few years? It doesn't matter that he sounds like a hypocrite or reveals his own flaws. His base will stick to him, he will throw people under the bus as often as possible to make himself look better and deflect criticism, and he lives to strike at people for their own weaknesses because what's left of his brain happens to be specifically as good as that. This is going to be the war of attrition to which side can survive the longest while minimizing the other side's voter turnout. Trump loves to make things ugly and indigestible for the American people so that they tune out. And while certainly a large cohort has been activated against that very tendency, it's still one of his main skills as the mouthpiece to the GOP's current incarnation.
And we're going to hear the next 8 months of Biden's record on repeat. That's something we need to prepare for now and Trump is absolutely going to 100% run to the left of Biden on things like Social Security and Medicare because he has to. Trump isn't some amazing 4D chess master and he's shit at debates, but he's good at two things: 1. Poking the bear until the bear gets riled up and makes its own mistakes; and 2. Running disinformation campaigns in a blitz of lies that turns people off from the election and the whole process.
We'll see how Biden fares against all of that, but, again, let's not forget how the GOP plays.
And we're going to hear the next 8 months of Biden's record on repeat. That's something we need to prepare for now and Trump is absolutely going to 100% run to the left of Biden on things like Social Security and Medicare because he has to. Trump isn't some amazing 4D chess master and he's shit at debates, but he's good at two things: 1. Poking the bear until the bear gets riled up and makes its own mistakes; and 2. Running disinformation campaigns in a blitz of lies that turns people off from the election and the whole process.
We'll see how Biden fares against all of that, but, again, let's not forget how the GOP plays.
Damn bro you can't just murder people on the forum like that
But this is a good post
Ok fine. Let's go with Establishment-with big corporate interest-Politics (but eeeever so slightly) nudged more left for window dressing.
This is nothing to feel good about or accept as is.
I mean, our timeline is we need to be at zero carbon emissions by 2030. If we can't drastically transform our economy in the next 10 years we are fucked, and Sanders plan was to invest a massive amount of money to do just that. Whether or not he could have done that, I don't know. But at least his plan was in line with what scientists are saying. Any goal that sets a date beyond 2030 is quite frankly unacceptable and insufficient. We're basically destroying the planet because of fucking profits. My wife and I have decided to forego having kids because of this shit man, it's depressing.
Warren has not been a spoiler for Sanders. Surveys proved how much of her support actually went to Biden. Like so many things in this primary, that narrative is an illusion.
I'm genuinely surprised we didn't have a screenshot of "status quo" from Dictionary.com posted on this page, tbh. Can't wait for more "Well, actually" posts that don't actually address anything.
I mean, if you argument is entirely about the optics of the primary, ok maybe.
But the data is pretty definitive from a mathematical and demographic standpoint.
His policy platform is not slightly left. The dem platform is further left than it's ever been and he personally is to the left of even that. If your position requires disingenuous or uninformed attempts to diminish opposition it's not a good position.
Considering that many of his policies are also left of the party platform, that's not very accurate either, but at least it's not demonstrably the wrong term to use.
If she endorsed Sanders instead of going on SNL, i think Sanders would be a slightly less bad position, not saying he would be the front runner though.
I'm seriously shocked at how happily some are rounding up his glaring deficiencies. Like I'm not even saying vote-Trump/3rd party or sit out GE.
Can we at least be critical and hold the dude accountable if we're gonna be stuck with the tool for 4 years?
This is probably the thing I like about these threads the last.
Look, all of us are voting blue in November. But come on, there's plenty wrong with Joe. Two weeks ago he was a punching bag in every page. Just because we justifiably hate on him doesn't mean Trump gets a vote.
It's an extremely thorough and complex explanation that dovetails with all the data and explains the current compositions of both parties extremely well.
Class politics that doesn't incorporate the very fundamental racial component is simply insufficient.
How is that not a critical facet of this? Why do you dismiss the idea that Bernie's plan, likely being impossible to pass, ends up looking exactly like whatever plan is possible under Biden? People are weighing that against ability to get elected and win the senate. Biden wins on those metrics and painting people who think this as not caring about climate change is ridiculous.
There are currently 1736 delegates declared with Biden at 860 and Bernie at 710. It's basically impossible for Bernie to overcome that deficit, but we haven't even assigned half the total delegates in the US yet, so the "true, purely factual data" in regards to delegates is that it's not over. It's the polls that indicate that Bernie has no chance and that's totally valid to say he has no path left... but the actual purely empirical data of delegates does not communicate that reality because it simply isn't there yet.
To be exceedingly clear, I'm not saying Bernie has a chance because he almost certainly does not unless Biden hard collapses (Which I don't expect to happen either), but you can't really point responsibly to the current delegate math as indicative of that fact yet.
Unity is a 2-way street. If Joe and his supporters basically just want to tell the left "fuck you we won, now fall in line" then that's the opposite of unity. If ya'll want unity, you need to do that thing called compromise that is so important when it comes to Republicans. Prove to leftists that you're willing to move further to the left and maybe they won't stay home during the General.
The top post of the Sanders subreddit is that Bernie is in striking distance of Biden... That sub is something else.
I posted Osita N's piece again earlier.
It's about racism. The Dems moved right in response to losing massive swathes of WWC voters to the GOP. Not before.
Just yesterday Biden equated Sanders supporters to Trump supporters, so I wouldn't hold your breath on expecting his campaign to suddenly start focusing on working class issues. I hope he does, though.
2030 is not possible. Sanders could not have done it. I'm not trying to browbeat you or convince you. This is just the reality of where we are. As i've said before, politics will not get us out of this mess.
Yes. Hold him accountable. This is what you should be doing. But don't deny reality because he's not AS progressive as we want. There was a time when Sanders pushed for some of the same things that Biden is pushing now, including threatening to filibuster the ACA if it didn't have a public option. It's fine to say that the policies aren't left enough for you. They're not left enough for me either. I'd prefer he not increase defense spending. I'd prefer he do more on climate change. I'd prefer he drop the pretext and legalize marijuana. But even if he doesn't so those things, his platform is still not only a vast improvement from Trump's, it's a marked improvement from the Democratic Party's platform.
I addressed this. For Bernie to win, he would have to perform completely different demographic wise in the remaining states than he has in the previous ones.
No one has been able to tell my why that would happen. The voters in the remaining states aren't meaningfully different than the voters in the previous states. And Biden has only done better and better as the primary has gone on, because he's the clear leader and that's what happens.
Why would Bernie start blowing Biden out in states that are essentially the same in terms of demographics as states where Biden has crushed Bernie? I just don't know what situation would lead to that, and that's what would need to start happening.
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It is so far, and we may very well see the existing data proven accurate in the next couple of weeks in what are supposed to be very good states for Biden. That's why I don't see the harm in Biden definitively carrying Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Arizona and Georgia and showing he can easily beat Sanders 1 on 1 by defending his own record that'll surely come into scrutiny this general election (along with made up investigations Republicans try to launch).
I'm sure it's comforting to Warren and her progressive supporters to blow all of their political capital and leverage so Bernie could be getting the brakes beat off him slightly less.
none, he hasn't spent ONE DAY in office yet. You think he will enact more sweeping change than FDR?
Yes, unity is a 2-way street. We have people on this very page saying they don't trust Biden to try to fulfill his policy positions, which are already the most progressive we've seen.
So pray tell, what exactly can Biden do to ensure that compromising on his policy positions will actually be heard by those who want them, and not simply dismissed as "I don't believe him."
Whether or not Sanders could make these major changes due to the system's limitations and obstruction is not the same issue as "will Biden stay focused on and work towards these progressive ideals and policy." Say what you want about Sanders but he's fucking relentless and focused on his agenda. We've also heard plenty of insinuating from Biden that his goal is just to return DC to "normalcy," whatever do-nothing bullshit that means.
Democrats were even less interested in Warren than with Sanders, I don't see how she would have moved the needle at all. People just want a scapegoat.
Indeed it is a two way street. Their lane on the street is much bigger however. You misunderstand the power dynamics at play. Republicans get 45 percent of the vote (and 65+ of the white male) off general principle. They have to be compromised with because their constituents are roughly half the country, therefore Republicans usually have half the power at a minimum.
Progressives do not have that same leverage.
This is the embodiment of what I don't like about Democrats. They give up and concede before they even try. Let me put it this way - Biden winning the election in 2020 isn't going to mean fuck all when we don't have a planet to live on in 80 years. It's no surprise that the people least concerned with climate change are those who support Biden the most. At least boomers will be able to die in peace without Trump in office.
How did you twist policy platform being the most left ever to how many sweeping changes he'll enact? Do you do this on purpose?
After last night, Bernie would need to win 57% of all remaining delegates to win. That's landslide victories in every remaining state in order to win a majority of delegates.
This is why he gave the speech he did today. It's just not possible.
This is why he gave the speech he did today. It's just not possible.
it doesn't matter how left the policy platform is, it's how the person governs
I guess so!
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