Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

EricTheGamerman · Mar 11, 2020

Fun to see people getting so tilted at Bernie staying in like he was always going to until he gets one more shot to actually test Biden one on one. He's giving Biden all the time to prepare for that debate and essentially ensure that he can hand that movement off if Biden actually has answers to Bernie's questions and direct issues because he cares about those issues and knows that his base, particularly a younger generation that is desperate for change, needs to hear something from Biden. This is the best case scenario for everyone involved and lets the process play its final act. Biden gets this right and he's won, or he doesn't and then the race changes significantly. Bernie placed the ball in Biden's court to make his case.

Quit with your bullshit "This is a repeat of 2016" or "HE'S SUCH AN IDIOT" bellyaching. It's probably one more week at most. That one week spent "fighting the real fight instead of this one" isn't realistically going to make the difference between Biden or Trump, and with Coronavirus spreading, that gives more time for Trump to fuck up his response anyway. Calm down.

Kirblar · Mar 11, 2020

Dark Knight said:
I have an honest question that is definitely not meant to pander to age-ism or what have you.

Isn't it worth it for Bernie to stay in just for the slim chance of Biden getting sick during an international pandemic(god forbid)? Say Bernie drops out, and Biden got too sick to be the nominee a month from now. Wouldn't Bernie be locked out of the nomination and the DNC could just pop whatever other moderate they feel like in there to replace Biden?

I only ask because the risk of getting coronavirus isn't small, especially for people on the campaign trail.

No. Biden's delegates would control the nomination and be freed to vote for other candidates.

Those delegates aren't going to vote for Sanders at the convention.

Slayven · Mar 11, 2020

Big Baybee said:
This is what kills me. Biden had some straight real ass talk about whatever bullshit that guy tried to throw in his face, and now that's a bad thing?

a white man being condemned after telling it like ti is? In america?

carlsojo · Mar 11, 2020

Troast said:
Bernie will drop after the debate, theres no way he goes to convention with these numbers.

I honestly doubt it. He's going to keep giving his stump speech.

WhySoDevious · Mar 11, 2020

airbagged_ said:
Bernie Sanders is all but done

It wasn’t just the results on Tuesday. It was the realization that, for the first time, he had no excuse and nothing better to look forward to.

www.politico.com

"In addition to his supporters, Sanders possesses a massive fundraising list, what one Democratic National Committee member called "the gold mine."

The committee member, a veteran of presidential campaigns, said that in exchange for his support, Sanders could negotiate with Biden for everything from speaking time at the Democratic National Convention to platform changes and appointments.

"He needs to sit down with [Tom] Perez or Joe's people," the DNC member said, referring to the DNC chairman.

Sanders can't win, he said. "But he will be able to bargain.""

The pressure to have him bow out and "negotiate" before the debate after Tuesday's results really rubs me the wrong way.

Did he turn over his email list to the Clinton campaign in 2016?

I see several articles about him not turning it over, but no confirmation that he did.

Volimar · Mar 11, 2020

Dark Knight said:
I have an honest question that is definitely not meant to pander to age-ism or what have you.

Isn't it worth it for Bernie to stay in just for the slim chance of Biden getting sick during an international pandemic(god forbid)? Say Bernie drops out, and Biden got too sick to be the nominee a month from now. Wouldn't Bernie be locked out of the nomination and the DNC could just pop whatever other moderate they feel like in there to replace Biden?

I only ask because the risk of getting coronavirus isn't small, especially for people on the campaign trail.

No, they're not locked out. If the unfortunate happens before the convention they'll have votes on the other candidates who had delegates. If it happened after the convention, that might be stickier. Probably support would go to the VP pick.

schuelma · Mar 11, 2020

GeorgePBurdell said:
As long as Bernie isn't going to go super negative on Biden in the coming week then I don't really see a problem with him staying it it until next Wednesday. After that he pretty much has to drop out.

yup. If he just wants to have his debate and focuses most of his attention on his own platform and attacking Trump, then fine.

If he goes scorched earth on the presumptive nominee....that's a problem.

Dark Knight · Mar 11, 2020

^ Gotcha, thanks for the quick answers yall!

Deleted member 13101 · Mar 11, 2020

QueenVulpix said:
It feels like I listened to a different speech then most of you. This didn't feel like a usual Bernie speech at all and felt like a concession speech but with his goal to debate Biden, question Biden to make sure Biden understands the needs of his base, try and shift Biden a bit leftward before he then drops out next week and endorses Biden. This feels like the complete opposite situation of 2016.

This is what I heard as well. I don't know if/when he plans to drop out, but having viewers see where Biden already is on some issues, isn't a bad thing. And getting him further there (and reminding the party how their own platform has shifted in 2016 and forward) isn't so bad either.

carlsojo · Mar 11, 2020

Volimar said:
No, they're not locked out. If the unfortunate happens before the convention they'll have votes on the other candidates who had delegates. If it happened after the convention, that might be stickier. Probably support would go to the VP pick.

Obvously, god forbid anything happens to ANY candidate, but if it did, Harris riding in with Obama at her side would still sweep Trump.

AdrianG4 · Mar 11, 2020

It seems like Bernie is already taking steps towards conceding but is genuinely concerned about Joe Biden's platform as the presumptive democtratic nominee. Bernie feels he can get Joe to budge a bit on some important issues so that they can win the general election this November.

As a registeted democrat from Arizona, I look forward to this debate and all democrats should as well.

Deleted member 24052 · Mar 11, 2020

Solaris said:
The sudden disdain for Bernie in this thread is fucking weird

Yeah, for real lol

Meows · Mar 11, 2020

i think it is fine for bernie to have his last debate.

V_Arnold · Mar 11, 2020

carlsojo said:
Biden just told some jackass he was full of shit to his face right in front of the cameras. He ain't hiding.

You think that was a positive example?
If Bernie or Trump did the same thing, MSNBC would not shut up (rightfully!) about it for WEEKS.
Telling a female staffer to shush twice, swearing at a constituent? "I am not working for you?".

He was right on the issue, but the way he gets irritated at even the slightest hint of people holding him accountable for his views, asking for clarificiation is unacceptable.

Deleted member 24052 · Mar 11, 2020

EricTheGamerman said:
Fun to see people getting so tilted at Bernie staying in like he was always going to until he gets one more shot to actually test Biden one on one. He's giving Biden all the time to prepare for that debate and essentially ensure that he can hand that movement off if Biden actually has answers to Bernie's questions and direct issues because he cares about those issues and knows that his base, particularly a younger generation that is desperate for change, needs to hear something from Biden. This is the best case scenario for everyone involved and lets the process play its final act. Biden gets this right and he's won, or he doesn't and then the race changes significantly. Bernie placed the ball in Biden's court to make his case.

Quit with your bullshit "This is a repeat of 2016" or "HE'S SUCH AN IDIOT" bellyaching. It's probably one more week at most. That one week spent "fighting the real fight instead of this one" isn't realistically going to make the difference between Biden or Trump, and with Coronavirus spreading, that gives more time for Trump to fuck up his response anyway. Calm down.

This, right here.

He wants to debate Joe, let him. He's still in it.

InASnowBoundLand · Mar 11, 2020

It seemed very obvious that Bernie is shutting this down. And this debate and what happens going forward is part of the negotiation as to how that goes about.

Good speech!

Ziltoidia 9 · Mar 11, 2020

gutter_trash said:
he is repeating the 2016 playbook.
Hillary tried to play nice with him at the convention.

zero respect for Hillary

Dems need to wake up and not repeat the same mistake.

Just nuke him

Can't think of a worse outcome than trying to completely nuke him as a person when his policy platform constantly had a majority in the party's ideology. But I guess on the wednesday after election day we could complain about young voter turn out when it matters for you. During the primary? The was really only one candidate that we trying. He couldn't get it done, but if all of them were trying to get young people out I bet we could have made a difference for the general.

AndrewDean84 · Mar 11, 2020

Sounds like Bernie needs to go the Biden's website, instead of wasting America's time with another debate and another awful primary Election Day(for Sanders).

The Albatross · Mar 11, 2020

gutter_trash said:
it's time to unleash the nuclear option,
release Fidel Castro/Maduro attack ads on Bernie in Florida and Finish Him

Nah, no need. Biden's been very concilatory, and he's transitioning into a leadership role in this election. His speech last night signalled that. It wasn't a ra-ra cheerleading event. It was somber -- in light of the coronavirus outbreak and the Trump Administration's chaos -- conciliatory, and focused.

Sanders is in the position of needing to attack because he's so far behind, but Biden has an opportunity to continue to show how he'll lead because he's in the clearly dominant position.

Florida is looking like a bloodbath as is right now, with Biden leading by nearly 40 points, and the Sanders campaign having clearly lost all momentum. Sanders' last chance was to pull a major upset in Michigan like he did in 2016, which might then lead to an upset in Florida and lead to a small chance for a brokered convention. BUt, Sanders getting destroyed last night in Michigan makes it all the more likely that Biden's lead in Florida is going to widen.

I think there's some clear lessons on why this race is different than in 2016. Sanders performed well in 2016 among nativists, populists, and working class people who were uncomfortable with Hillary Clinton, whether it's because of the Clinton name or because she's a woman it's a guess... My hunch is that it's both, but largely because she's a woman (or at least that her being a woman has people searching for why they dislike her and the easiest thing to come up with is "because she's a Clinton!"). Meanwhile, int hose same places that Sanders pulled major upsets or performed unusually strong, Biden is cleaning up even with a lot of the same policies of what would have been a Clinton administration. I think the populist and nativist shine has worn off a bit -- we've had 4 years of chaos under outsider populism and nativism of Trump -- and, unfortunately even in 2016 and 2020, an old man will perform better with the same policy positions than a younger woman, which I think is a strong lesson that sexism played an outsized roll in 2016.

airbagged_ · Mar 11, 2020

Matt said:
That's literally what happens every single primary when one candidate has guaranteed victory. The sooner a primary season ends, the better position we are in for the general. It means a lot of time, money, and resources can be directed towards the actual enemy.

I understand that, but with the amount of bad press he's getting about his policy stances/cognitive health... a debate with Bernie would help him if he can hold his own. Again, this is because they're pressuring him to drop out after Tuesday but seemingly right before Sunday.

electricblue · Mar 11, 2020

I voted for Bernie but it's time to drop out. Dragging it out didn't help anything before and it won't now + The 17th is going to be ugly

TheGhost · Mar 11, 2020

The only thing Bernie should be doing is using this time to tell his base to vote for Biden and don't sit home mad on Election Day. Explain to them getting trump out of office is bigger than their movement. Because frankly it is. Not just this country but the world can't do another 4 years of trump and he has to be stopped.

V_Arnold · Mar 11, 2020

To people wanting to "nuke" Bernie (fuck off, fuck real off right now with such language, btw):
there is NOTHING that Bernie can do to Biden that he is not already doing to himself, and what Trump will not use freely the first WEEK of the generals.

If Biden truly is the best person for the job, then he better fucking endure the next nine days like a champion he is.

Equippedwithtowel · Mar 11, 2020

Kirblar said:
The risk is from people gathering in public to vote.

aren't there downballot primaries either way?

if the risk is prohibitive the onus is on the DNC and state democratic parties to reschedule

airbagged_ · Mar 11, 2020

EricTheGamerman said:
Fun to see people getting so tilted at Bernie staying in like he was always going to until he gets one more shot to actually test Biden one on one. He's giving Biden all the time to prepare for that debate and essentially ensure that he can hand that movement off if Biden actually has answers to Bernie's questions and direct issues because he cares about those issues and knows that his base, particularly a younger generation that is desperate for change, needs to hear something from Biden. This is the best case scenario for everyone involved and lets the process play its final act. Biden gets this right and he's won, or he doesn't and then the race changes significantly. Bernie placed the ball in Biden's court to make his case.

Quit with your bullshit "This is a repeat of 2016" or "HE'S SUCH AN IDIOT" bellyaching. It's probably one more week at most. That one week spent "fighting the real fight instead of this one" isn't realistically going to make the difference between Biden or Trump, and with Coronavirus spreading, that gives more time for Trump to fuck up his response anyway. Calm down.

Thanks, you put this better than I could have.

Tamanon · Mar 11, 2020

This debate will be the least-watched, yet most substantive one yet. Biden will be fine. Bernie will get destroyed on voting on Tuesday and then retire from the race.

Ignatz Mouse · Mar 11, 2020

QueenVulpix said:
It feels like I listened to a different speech then most of you. This didn't feel like a usual Bernie speech at all and felt like a concession speech but with his goal to debate Biden, question Biden to make sure Biden understands the needs of his base, try and shift Biden a bit leftward before he then drops out next week and endorses Biden. This feels like the complete opposite situation of 2016.

I didn't listen so I hope that you are right.

If Bernie goes knives out with overblown rhetoric like he did with Hillary I'll be pissed. If they have a gentleman's debate I'll be very happy.

Deleted member 198 · Mar 11, 2020

Solaris said:
The sudden disdain for Bernie in this thread is fucking weird

It's always been this way, it isn't sudden lol

carlsojo · Mar 11, 2020

V_Arnold said:
To people wanting to "nuke" Bernie (fuck off, fuck real off right now with such language, btw):
there is NOTHING that Bernie can do to Biden that he is not already doing to himself, and what Trump will not use freely the first WEEK of the generals.

If Biden truly is the best person for the job, then he better fucking endure the next nine days like a champion he is.

Man do you think Trump even has the vocabulary to discuss the issues with Biden in a debate? I don't think Trump even knows what a healthcare is.

Daytak said:
It's always been this way, it isn't sudden lol

You must have been visiting a different website the last few months because people were all in for Bernie.

Big Baybee · Mar 11, 2020

V_Arnold said:
You think that was a positive example?
If Bernie or Trump did the same thing, MSNBC would not shut up (rightfully!) about it for WEEKS.
Telling a female staffer to shush twice, swearing at a constituent? "I am not working for you?".

He was right on the issue, but the way he gets irritated at even the slightest hint of people holding him accountable for his views, asking for clarificiation is unacceptable.

Trump literally does this every week to reporters. He shits on people all day on Twitter, and you can bet if there are protestors at his rallies he is going to push for his supporters to commit acts of violence, just like he did in 2016. Biden telling some obvious trumper he's full of shit does not matter.

Prodigal Son · Mar 11, 2020

InASnowBoundLand said:
It seemed very obvious that Bernie is shutting this down. And this debate and what happens going forward is part of the negotiation as to how that goes about.

Good speech!

exactly.

V_Arnold · Mar 11, 2020

carlsojo said:
Man do you think Trump even has the vocabulary to discuss the issues with Biden in a debate? I don't think Trump even knows what a healthcare is.

Vocabulary? Are you serious right now? The entire GOP is at his behalf. Do you think attack ads and twitter messages will be handwritten by Trump?

Big Baybee said:
Trump literally does this every week to reporters. He shits on people all day on Twitter, and you can bet if there are protestors at his rallies he is going to push for his supporters to commit acts of violence, just like he did in 2016. Biden telling some obvious trumper he's full of shit does not matter.

You cannot be real with this shit. The one where people were asking about people in cages in the border? Are they trumpers too? To which Biden said: "VOTE FOR TRUMP".

Deleted member 43 · Mar 11, 2020

airbagged_ said:
I understand that, but with the amount of bad press he's getting about his policy stances/cognitive health... a debate with Bernie would help him if he can hold his own. Again, this is because they're pressuring him to drop out after Tuesday but seemingly right before Sunday.

He's really not getting much bad press about "policy stances/cognitive health".

Don't confuse Twitter or the left blogosphere for actual wide press coverage.

darkside · Mar 11, 2020

Daytak said:
It's always been this way, it isn't sudden lol

What? Just go look at the poll results for the old threads. Folks in here thought for a hot second Bernie would win SC. I guess that was the beginning of the end.

Deleted member 43 · Mar 11, 2020

Equippedwithtowel said:
aren't there downballot primaries either way?

if the risk is prohibitive the onus is on the DNC and state democratic parties to reschedule

That's not really possible. The November election is happening in November.

Also, the Democratic Party or state parties do not set the date of the primaries. The state governments do.

carlsojo · Mar 11, 2020

V_Arnold said:
Vocabulary? Are you serious right now? The entire GOP is at his behalf. Do you think attack ads and twitter messages will be handwritten by Trump?

You cannot be real with this shit. The one where people were asking about people in cages in the border? Are they trumpers too? To which Biden said: "VOTE FOR TRUMP".

I was obviously referring to a debate between them. Come on.

Aaron · Mar 11, 2020

Tamanon said:
This debate will be the least-watched, yet most substantive one yet. Biden will be fine. Bernie will get destroyed on voting on Tuesday and then retire from the race.

Yeah, only way it changes anything is if Biden somehow colossally tanks at the debate, which is unlikely to happen.

Then Tuesday is Florida, Arizona, Illinois, Ohio which probably ends worse for Bernie than last night did.

If he wants to keep going after that he's truly hopeless. I understand the appeal to a Bernie vs. Biden one-on-one debate, but it'll be the same story next Wednesday.

supremeplatypus · Mar 11, 2020

No meaningful change for the USA then. I bet ya you won't even get the public option. Sigh.

Steel · Mar 11, 2020

Equippedwithtowel said:
aren't there downballot primaries either way?

if the risk is prohibitive the onus is on the DNC and state democratic parties to reschedule

To when? Coronavirus is going on all year, this isn't gonna get better in the near-future. I do get that downballot primaries are important, though.

Chaosblade · Mar 11, 2020

People surprised at the sudden anti-Sanders shift must not have been in the primary threads in 2016. Literally the exact same thing happened once it became clear Sanders had no path.

Solaris · Mar 11, 2020

Daytak said:
It's always been this way, it isn't sudden lol

Recently people have generally been all for him.

He loses Super Tuesday and all the people that hate him just crawl out of the woodwork, seemingly incensed that he won't drop out, bringing up 2016 and whatever else they can to try and dump on him.

It's just sad, this thread is so damn toxic.

HipsterMorty · Mar 11, 2020

There's no issue with Bernie staying in until the next debate. If he can expose Biden's weaknesses in the debate then he might have a shot at changing the tide. If the debate doesn't change anything then he should drop out.

EricTheGamerman · Mar 11, 2020

AndrewDean84 said:
Sounds like Bernie needs to go the Biden's website, instead of wasting America's time with another debate and another awful primary Election Day(for Sanders).

Yes, wouldn't want the American people to vote after watching the final two (lol Tulsi) candidates debate on their policy platforms in a one on one setting for the first time in the entire primary process when only 17 states have voted, Bernie isn't actually behind that many delegates, and not even half the delegates have been assigned. Yes, his chances look bad, but dear god, he's still performing decently and getting delegates and even winning states. It's not like he's Tulsi running around with 2 delegates proclaiming that he's got a shot. One more week where Bernie actually engages in a proper one on one debate isn't a problem.

Seriously people, calm down and let this next week happen. If Biden parries at the debate, he's won, if he can't, then we were always going to be in real trouble with Biden and its better to find that out now than several months from now because we can either A. Work to get Biden better prepared or B. Change nominees. This is a debate of practicality at this point and also Bernie genuinely trying to work with Biden or force Biden to win over some of his supporters through genuine ideology and policy.

V_Arnold · Mar 11, 2020

carlsojo said:
I was obviously referring to a debate between them. Come on.

I wrote: in the first week of the general. As in: as soon as it starts. I did not bring up debates. (I am not sure what would happen if these two senile babbling creeps would get together in an actual debate, to be honest :P)

KHarvey16 · Mar 11, 2020

supremeplatypus said:
No meaningful change for the USA then. I bet ya you won't even get the public option. Sigh.

Why would the senate be more willing to pass massive reforms under Bernie than under Biden?

carlsojo · Mar 11, 2020

V_Arnold said:
I wrote: in the first week of the general. As in: as soon as it starts. I did not bring up debates. (I am not sure what would happen if these two senile babbling creeps would get together in an actual debate, to be honest :P)

Lots of yelling and my money is on someone throwing a punch.

UF_C · Mar 11, 2020

BlastProcessing said:
What did the DNC do, exactly?

Allow a candidate who doesn't really identify as a Democrat run for president under the democrat mantra.

Jogi · Mar 11, 2020

The Adder said:
There is a difference between staying in, pushing your policy, nudging the person who is going to win your way, which is great.

And staying in, attacking the character of the person who is going to win, attacking the DNC, attacking the process, ans blaming everything but your own campaign for your failures. That does damage and that's what he did last time.

So you feel those "attacks" by someone who wasn't even viable in a state yesterday, whose policies don't gain traction outside of young people (who don't vote anyway) and cant attract the older demographic somehow suddenly has so much power to alter the GE? I get the idea, but can't buy that he has that much of an impact moving forward. Seems like an easy scapegoat for the front runners inability to stand on his own.

Bonafide · Mar 11, 2020

Solaris said:
The sudden disdain for Bernie in this thread is fucking weird

It most definitely ain't sudden. Most of the heavy lifting posters in here are/were big fans of Hilary and still blame him for her loss. Also, Sanders didn't make a lot of the gatekeepers happy so you're seeing the fallout from that too.

It's also due to fighting between leftists and liberals, you're seeing a major attempt to keep leftists in line.

V_Arnold · Mar 11, 2020

carlsojo said:
Lots of yelling and my money is on someone throwing a punch.

And a pushup contest! (Which Biden would win as Trump does not do exercise)

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