This is an unfair comparison/equivalency. Biden's environmental policies are mountains better than Trumps which is essentially climate change denial.
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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I don't understand why more Americans aren't furious with the Democratic party for suppressing voters. For it to happen under Republican governments is one thing, but copying the tactic for the nomination is really bad? And barely anyone seems to give a fuck. I see a lot of piss taking about the youth not going out to vote, maybe start asking why?
Biden is already proving, unprompted, that he isnt going anywhere left even if the senate and congress magically become beacons of progressivism who would pass radical plans like the green new deal. IE see his response to vetoing M4A if it passed congress and the senate. Hes not moving further left.
What on earth are you talking about?
The Texas situation happened as a consequence of the suppression efforts in the upcoming general election splashing over to the primaries.
This was already addressed numerous times on this page. The climate crisis is not an issue that can simply be better than republicans and be good enough. Its all or nothing, now. No one gives a fuck that Biden might buy us an extra 20 years when the alternative could have been saving the world.
Biden supports the Green New Deal.
Plan for Climate Change and Environmental Justice | Joe Biden
Joe Biden knows climate change is the greatest threat facing our country and our world, and he has a bold plan for a clean energy revolution.
joebiden.com
I think you're assuming a lot here, in that the youth are being systemically repressed from voting. That doesn't really appear to be the case, moreso than youth voter apathy. They don't feel represented, even when a candidate is trying to. Many also probably can't leave work, school, etc to go vote in the primary. This is a problem of the systems at large, but it isn't necessarily deliberate repression of their vote. There are still mechanisms they can take such as mail in ballots.
Yeah, I know. My argument isn't that none of this needs to happen, it's that it's not going to happen any time soon according to whatever the most progressive climate policy is no matter what. I'm not sure how statements regarding how necessary it is are a response to the reality of republicans either controlling the senate or having enough to prevent passage of these things.
I feel like we're completely stuck deep in a cave with no way out and people are explaining how important it is to get out. Yeah, we know. Changes precisely 0 facts though.
must be difficult to have people on MSNBC that you don't agree with
The only states where it was major issue were TX and CA. Texas was intentionally done by Republicans to suppress turnout in the General Election. California has no good excuse other than that it's a huge highly populated state and they severely underestimated turnout. California—as a deep blue state—absolutely should fix this going forward.
In areas where voting is up, the youth vote is up but by a smaller relative proportion. We saw the same pattern in the UK's 2017 elections. If something juices youth turnout, it's likely just juicing turnout, period.
If we're going to get into the thick of things, all the candidates had major flaws in their climate policies. Sanders plans included.
This is another lie propagated by a faction of Sanders supporters who are, in turn, propagating right wing conspiracies.
I don't have a problem with people I disagree with. I have a problem with people that outright lie and dismiss black people and act like we don't matter. Which is the type of shit Moore has been saying lately. It's not like he's a politician, government official, or an actual member of a campaign where I would expect see the on air no matter how much BS they push out.
I wish I could disagree with you but I can't. The U.S. has been a bully, not a responsible world power and what is stunning is how many people who supposedly lean left seem very satisfied that Biden is going to beat Bernie when the latter is clearly the type of leadership we've needed for decades. Bernie represented a radical shift in forty-years of neoliberal and corporate-centric ideology but despite the fact that his platforms and proposed legislation would positively affect millions upon millions of people, our nation is utterly fantastic at voting against its own interests.
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I wouldn't make that equivalency. Biden's plan isn't as good as Bernie's, but it's worlds better than Trump's. Mentioning them in the same breath like they're the same thing and would do the same harm just isn't... Like, accurate, before you get to everything else.
Remember those terrifying per 10th degree effect estimates? Works the other way, too. Every 10th of a degree of warming averted makes things so much less awful than they could be. It's important not to discount the differences, if only because it's so easy to work yourself up into a despair frency over things you have no control over.
Besides, I've seen some encouraging new research on the climate stuff recently. A way higher % of emissions than we thought were coming entirely out of the energy sector, and there's some really promising new carbon capture tech.
Because they're... Not? Like, everybody wants more youth turnout. But with the exception of caucuses (which the party wants to get rid of) they're not setting the participation rules. States do that.
And this is why people are becoming increasingly disillusioned with electoralism as a means by which to get necessary change accomplished
Bernie should be out there right now telling people that Biden will not have their back if they have to be quarantined or get sick from Coronavirus. Worker protections are in his wheelhouse, why not hammer your opponent on it?
They would do the same amount of harm. Neither is sufficient to avoid climate catastrophe.
And yet, his plan aligns with what what modern climate scientists tell us we need to accomplish and also being the highest ranking person in the field to give us an actual chance to save the planet and not just giving us a bit more time while still rapidly pushing us all towards extinction.
I'm just maintaining that this is an issue dems don't get to go "well at least were not Trump" and come out victorious on. The solution should be on saving the planet, not giving us a few extra years in order to maintain the current status quo because life is good for them and they wont be aorund to face their own consequences.
More like a speed bump compared to a sinkhole
He's not going to ban fracking while he's taking money from the Oil and Gas industry
By "electoralism" you mean letting citizens vote? Because that'd be a scary position to take.
There's, like, a whole other part of that post refuting your statement here directly.
Not replying to all of you christ, although this response is even more surprising. The 6-8 hour wait to vote disproportionately suppresses youth and minority votes. I couldn't take 6 hours off work to vote and neither could most. States demanding photo ID, the purging of votes due to typographical errors. I've read quite a lot of stories about this in the last week and it's not just Texas.
They didn't. Virginia has an open primary and many, many Republicans voted for the candidate they felt had the lowest chance of beating Trump (in most cases, Sanders). I saw multiple people brag about doing that on social media and a friend who worked the polls saw a large number of people she knew were Republicans show up to vote.
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This doesn't happen just in red states.
NYC purged 200,000 voters in 2016. It wasn’t a mistake.
New York City blocked 200,000 people from voting in 2016.
www.cityandstateny.com
In NYC in 18', Cuomo was doing suspect shit.
In 2018 as well.This doesn't happen just in red states.
NYC purged 200,000 voters in 2016. It wasn’t a mistake.
New York City blocked 200,000 people from voting in 2016.
So numerous people have asked you what you're talking about and instead of having any factual proof or evidence that "the democratic party is suppressing votes" you're just going to ignore the fact that the democratic party isn't even setting participation rules in most of these states and a lot of these wait times are because of suppression tactics Republican state legislatures have enacted.
But sure, the democratic party is the one shutting down hundreds of polling places in minority neighborhoods.
Think about what you're saying before you propagate right wing conspiracies.
This doesn't happen just in red states.
NYC purged 200,000 voters in 2016. It wasn’t a mistake.
New York City blocked 200,000 people from voting in 2016.
where's your evidence it's happening in this primary?
We might somehow walk away with the Senate, House, and Presidential position out of this election. If that happens, we need to have candidates and politicians that are actually wiling to fight as aggressively as humanly possible, and probably even a little further than that, against Climate Change. We're reminding people that getting out of the cave is step one in a much, much bigger and more important fight and that we just really will not have time once we regain some semblance of control for milquetoast positions. This just isn't a place we can try to compromise on or settle for incremental progress. Yes, step one is pull the regressive actions of Trump away from our country obviously, but there's not really any sensible moderate lane once we get past that point and it's also likely that to actually address those issues, the questions of traditional capitalist structure will need to be challenged.
You mean the same Democratic Party that put forth a bill to make election day a holiday and it was killed by McConnell?
people having issues with electoralism's ineffectiveness isn't scary, its just that when the system in place, electoralism, isn't sufficient to achieve the sort of quick change required for issues like climate change, people need to start making use of other means to force politicians into action.
I didn't say it happened in this primary, but that it's not as cut and dry an issue as we think. Just like with gerrymandering. It's most a red state phenomenon, but still sucks the few times it happens in blue states.
Really? I hadn't noticed, but I did check my registration a few weeks before election out of sheer anxiety due to 2016.
Receipts, pls.
California already has automatic voter registration and permanent vote-by-mail status (which you only lose after skipping four consecutive statewide elections.) You can also mail or drop off your absentee ballot on election day. There's literally no excuse for people not to vote in this state.
Well realistically he's not going to ban fracking because it makes no real sense. Banning fracking isn't going to prevent oil and gas consumption, it's just going to make it more expensive domestically. What is more important is transitioning to lower emission alternatives to naturally weed out the need for it—like how natural gas killed coal and how solar and wind can cut down on the need for fossil fuels.
If anything, it was good to see some of these issues in advance of the general election so people know what type of bullshit to expect.
Bernie's policies are the ones that the US absolutely desperately need right now, and it's baffling me to no end to see what I'd qualify a very moderate center-left politician being labelled "too leftist" by US citizens. This is a direct result of decades and decades of American anti-communist & anti-socialist propaganda that succeeded very well in the end. In my country, Bernie would barely make any waves considering how boringly consensual most of his policies are.
This is honestly appalling to follow the US elections, and to realize how everything is just so goddamn utterly broken everywhere, and people fighting inanely so that things keep on staying broken. This is one of those times where I wish I could offer the entire US population a 6-months free stay in a European country in order to see the disparities and the cruelty of the system they're living under, to see how truly completely broken it is. A system that, thanks partly to the US' hegemony, is also spreading to the rest of the world like a disease, and that my own fellow citizens have to take the streets in order to fight against (y'all, BlackRock isn't a French company, yet here they are trying to privatize our pension system which never needed to be fixed since it never was broken in the first place, and no, this isn't coincidental, this is partly a consequence of the US' unhinged liberal capitalism).
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yep. For the most part, the people who didn't get their vote in didn't get their vote in because they didn't want to vote.
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