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Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
What's crazy about the race now is that even if today is best case scenario for Bernie, what is that, a 5 point Michigan win? Whereas best case scenario for Biden is a 30 point win (based on polling). Biden was dead and buried 2 and a half weeks ago. Nuts

Also, the turn on Warren by Sanders supporters is unfortunate, but expected.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
What could Warren possibly offer Biden at this stage? Considering he's so far ahead?

its all about feels and emotions to some, not about actually doing what needs to be done.

but also its fucking sad how much shit warren gets from certain leftists, let the women breathe. regardless of who she endorses, she has been and will be fighting the good fight.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
It's pretty straightforward. Endorsing Bernie gets neither her nor the progressive movement a thing. He's almost certainly going to lose at this point regardless of what she does. But she also doesn't want to pen herself and her staff up to any more harasent than they've already gotten so she's just choosing to abstain.

Makes sense to me.

Wasn't her campaign about fight big corporations, even break companies that are too big? Proper taxation, expanding social security, etc...?

Sanders is clear the closest one to those ideals. She attacked fiercely at Biden for favoring big banks and companies in the past, which was some form of realization how big corporations have a choke in the senate.

Given her ideals she should support Sanders and I feel the 'harassment' part is a lame excuse. I can't even imagine what other spoken politicians like AOC have to deal with and you don't see her cowering in fear due to mean ppl on Twitter...
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,330
It's not her job to save Bernie. Her endorsement won't win Bernie any extra delegates. But she's part of a movement that's bigger than a few online shitheads, and morale is low. It wouldn't kill her to show some solidarity.

why? Bernie is not the only way forward for progressives. Save the energy for campaigning down ballot tactically rather than hitch a ride to someone who is about to lose worse than he did 4 years ago.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
its all about feels and emotions to some, not about actually doing what needs to be done.

but also its fucking sad how much shit warren gets from certain leftists, let the women breathe. regardless of who she endorses, she has been and will be fighting the good fight.
Stop this language like she just lost a family member or something. She's a politician. Do some politics.

I'm sure bernie will be given plenty of time to grieve if/when he drops out, right? lol. It's fucking sad how much shit he gets from certain democrats.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,994
Wasn't her campaign about fight big corporations, even break companies that are too big? Proper taxation, expanding social security, etc...?

Sanders is clear the closest one to those ideals. She attacked fiercely at Biden for favoring big banks and companies in the past, which was some form of realization how big corporations have a choke in the senate.

Given her ideals she should support Sanders and I feel the 'harassment' part is a lame excuse. I can't even imagine what other spoken politicians like AOC have to deal with and you don't see her cowering in fear due to mean ppl on Twitter...
And endorsing Bernie Sanders is going to advance any of those goals exactly how? Considering he will still lack the kind of demographic support he needs to you know, actually win. Warren ain't moving the needle on Sanders getting blown the fuck out with black voters.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,330
Bernie never should have run this cycle in the first place. But people aren't ready for that conversation. I truly believe Warren could have beaten Biden. Biden shouldn't have run either but dudes popular and is driving turnout so far so idk.

^ this is definitely true. Bernie could have convinced a younger progressive legislator to run or put resources into Warren's candidacy but he had to try again. The strategy: hope enough candidates stay in so that Bernie could win without a majority.
 

DryCreek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,987
Bernie never should have run this cycle in the first place. But people aren't ready for that conversation. I truly believe Warren could have beaten Biden. Biden shouldn't have run either but dudes popular and is driving turnout so far so idk.

Bernie is popular so i dont think you can blame him for running this cycle. its impossible to tell how much of Bernies' votes would just transfer to Warren as warren is the unknown here. Its a shame she didn't do better as she is a stellar politician. but i think equally saying Bernie shouldn't have ran when he is as popular as he is is ridiculous.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
I'm not looking at her endorsement as some numbers thing to slip a win for Bernie. I'm just disappointed that she won't stand with the very ideals that she campaigned so hard on and made people support her. I keep getting responses about delegate numbers and outcomes, but that's besides my point. If you say you believe in something, fucking show it.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
And endorsing Bernie Sanders is going to advance any of those goals exactly how? Considering he will still lack the kind of demographic support he needs to you know, actually win. Warren ain't moving the needle on Sanders getting blown the fuck out with black voters.

Is not about moving the needle is about as a politician should follow her ideals and fight for them, and that's supporting Sanders, not Sanders as a person but rather standing behind what he represents. What message you send to the people that supported you as a pregressive candidate to back out and not defend the things you were supposed to believe in?

If young voters are totally pessimistic about politics is for shit like this, where the party dynamics prevail over people needs and ideals.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,330
It's not about Bernie...
So why should she endorse Bernie if it's not about Bernie? Bernie's campaign is not the arbiter or gold standard of the progressive movement. Warren can do what she does best take a hard line against corporations and work with her fellow senators and congressional representatives to get progressive legislation passed. She doesn't have to hitch a ride on someone who selectively takes a hardline with companies (see Bernie with Gun Manufacturers and Fox News).
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
Bernie never should have run this cycle in the first place. But people aren't ready for that conversation. I truly believe Warren could have beaten Biden. Biden shouldn't have run either but dudes popular and is driving turnout so far so idk.
Either he shouldn't have run or he should have retooled his campaign message. A campaign of resentment and revolution was never going to work in this cycle. It's the wrong message with an incumbent Trump as the ultimate enemy here.

The thing is that if Sanders did that I doubt he loses any of his base but he'd gain a lot. He should have highlighted his work with others and brought more people in. Cut the anti-establishment rhetoric and focus more on Trump.

But if he couldn't do that then yeah he shouldn't have run.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,994
Is not about moving the needle is about as a politician should follow her ideals and fight for them, and that's supporting Sanders, not Sanders as a person but rather standing behind what he represents. What message you send to the people that supported you as a pregressive candidate to back out and not defend the things you were supposed to believe in?

If young voters are totally pessimistic about politics is for shit like this.
So it's not about advancing progressive policy, it's just about feelings? Got it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,460
why? Bernie is not the only way forward for progressives. Save the energy for campaigning down ballot tactically rather than hitch a ride to someone who is about to lose worse than he did 4 years ago.
I'm not arguing head, I'm arguing heart. Again, Warren ran a moral campaign. Unless the argument is literally "endorsing Bernie literally dooms her career and any power she has in influencing left wing politics moving forward", I'm going to be disappointed. Not, like, 4D-chess "we shall never forget this and this will have grave political consequences"-disappointed, but more like "it's March 2020 and today, right now, I'm disappointed in you"-disappointed
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
So why should she endorse Bernie if it's not about Bernie? Bernie's campaign is not the arbiter or gold standard of the progressive movement. Warren can do what she does best take a hard line against corporations and work with her fellow senators and congressional representatives to get progressive legislation passed.

Bernie is the only progressive candidate on the run, does not matter is not the 'gold standard' (the fuck that means?) is about if you are a progressive candidate and you really believe in the things you campaigned for you should support the person that is closest to you ideology speaking.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
Is not about moving the needle is about as a politician should follow her ideals and fight for them, and that's supporting Sanders, not Sanders as a person but rather standing behind what he represents. What message you send to the people that supported you as a pregressive candidate to back out and not defend the things you were supposed to believe in?

If young voters are totally pessimistic about politics is for shit like this, where the party dynamics prevail over people needs and ideals.
Her supporters were maybe 40% at best with Sanders as a second choice. They want unity, calm demeanor, effective plans, alliances with people who have been fighting the good fight. They are fine with "the establishment" especially if it means groups like Planned Parenthood. They weren't a coalition of resentment and revolution. She betrays a lot of them by endorsing Sanders too.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Hope people are this understanding if it takes Bernie a while to endorse Biden if/when he suspends his campaign.
I don't expect him to, and you shouldn't need his permission to go vote out Trump. And his people don't vote Biden just because Bernie doesn't support him well then I guess they were part of problem all along anyway.

Obama gave him a talking to and he still fought it all the way to the convention.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,505
Richmond, VA
Either he shouldn't have run or he should have retooled his campaign message. A campaign of resentment and revolution was never going to work in this cycle. It's the wrong message with an incumbent Trump as the ultimate enemy here.

The thing is that if Sanders did that I doubt he loses any of his base but he'd gain a lot. He should have highlighted his work with others and brought more people in. Cut the anti-establishment record and focus more on Trump.

But if he couldn't do that then yeah he shouldn't have run.

I think it's clear he couldn't change his message. He's locked into it and completely inflexible, which is why he's lost again.

It's also why he couldn't have stayed out of the race. Not running would have also been a compromise.
 

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,787
Either he shouldn't have run or he should have retooled his campaign message. A campaign of resentment and revolution was never going to work in this cycle. It's the wrong message with an incumbent Trump as the ultimate enemy here.

The thing is that if Sanders did that I doubt he loses any of his base but he'd gain a lot. He should have highlighted his work with others and brought more people in. Cut the anti-establishment record and focus more on Trump.

But if he couldn't do that then yeah he shouldn't have run.
The anti establishment thing was never going to be a winner. That worked against Clinton cause the Clinton's have come to be hated on both sides over time. Doesn't work well with a bunch of well liked and well regarded politicians.
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
Wealthy white Bernie bro youtube creators who aren't affected by anything Trump does, announce they're bernie or bust:





This along with all the highly suspect "low information voter" dogshit hopefully raises some flags for some of you who follow these morons. No hard feelings, I followed Kyle, Hasan too but once push came to shove, these people proved to be ideologues and conspiracy theorists who nobody should waste their time on. How can you consider yourself a leftie if you don't care if someone who doesn't believe in climate change stays in power? Why praise Bernie for his climate change stance when you unequivocally have proven to not care about it? Is it just a talking point to win internet debates after all?
 
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mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,330
Bernie is the only progressive candidate on the run, does not matter is not the 'gold standard' (the fuck that means?) is about if you are a progressive candidate and you really believe in the things you campaigned for you should support the person that is closest to you ideology speaking.
No. The person closest to you is not necessarily worthy of endorsement.
1) Warren is very strongly anti-Fox News. Bernie frequently appears.
2) Warren tries to build with "the establishment" like Planned Parenthood to pass key legislation. Bernie rails against them.
3) Warren is very strongly for gun regulation and gun safety reform. Bernie has numerous times allied with the NRA and Gun Manufacturers over progressives.
 

Deleted member 227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
852
User banned (1 week): ignoring staff post with regards to sniping and metacommentary + misrepresenting another member
It's amazing how the primary equivalent of warren-or-bust is being justified passionately on this board of all. Screw the progressive movement, I guess, now it's all about what she gets out of this. We even have a mod comparing endorsing Bernie with slavery. Scratching my head real hard here.
Hope people are this understanding if it takes Bernie a while to endorse Biden if/when he suspends his campaign.
They wont and we all know it.
 

hidys

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,794
Does that mean Sam Seder is going to shred Michael Brooks the same way he shredded Jimmy Dore?

I really hope it does.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
Really dumb tweet.
Harris didn't criticize an action and explicitly said she respected him and didn't think he was racist.

Beto and especially Buttigieg criticized Sanders also.

We talking the segregation comments she threw at him?

She was right. Shoulda held her nerve.

And I don't think Pete criticized Sanders on Iraq War tier shit dude.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,330
I think you're misunderstanding his response. The part you take issue with isn't targeting another user, it's a hypothetical.

not a hypothetical
www.businessinsider.my

A Daily Beast reporter was doxxed after publishing a story about Bernie Sanders’ campaign staffer’s harassing tweets

As Sen. Sanders cements his position as the 2020 frontrunner, focus has turned to the online behavior of his supporters. He disavowed them on Monday.

But also not targeted at a user
 
May 29, 2019
502
It's not about making forumgoers happy, jesus christ. Everyone turns it into some personal identity politics vendetta when people are just disappointed that the only other influential progressive voice in the race seems to care more about mean tweets than she does the actual fucking progress she campaigned on.


How you gonna advance progressive policies if you don't support the progressive candidate in the first place?


But the progress should not stop and start with Bernie Sanders. There are many that will continue to fight for progressive values in America. Some, including Warren, may not see endorsing Bernie right now as the best path for them to advance progressive legislation.
 

Deleted member 7373

Guest
Really dumb tweet.
Harris didn't criticize an action and explicitly said she respected him and didn't think he was racist.

Beto and especially Buttigieg criticized Sanders also.
I mean I think you could definitely call the across the board endorsements of Biden as class solidarity. They do not want Bernies policies because it will hurt them and the people who fund their campaigns financially. So they endorse the candidate who will keep stuff going as is.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,163
The anti establishment thing was never going to be a winner. That worked against Clinton cause the Clinton's have come to be hated on both sides over time. Doesn't work well with a bunch of well liked and well regarded politicians.
I think if anything is shocking, it's how big the numbers of the anybody but Hillary group was. Bernie could have turned that into real support but he committed the same mistakes he did last time. Only this time he didn't have a "flawed" candidate to overshadow his weaknesses.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island


Lol

Good job alienating the young vote in November.

This is a bewildering response. The young people didn't even come out to vote for him last week. If the young want to keep just being angry and mad at trump, they can stay home and be useless.

Or they can get a Democrat in the white house, and start voting in progressives and grow this shit naturally. One day they will vote someone in that could deliver the message Bernie can't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
This is a bewildering response. The young people didn't even come out to vote for him last week. If the young want to keep just being angry and mad at trump, they can stay home and be useless.

Or they can get a Democrat in the white house, and start voting in progressives and grow this shit naturally. One day they will vote someone in that could deliver the message Bernie can't.
At the end of the day, you don't want to isolate or turn away voters. For all of the criticism Bernie got for not expanding his coalition, Biden should get the same amount for isolating Sanders Supporters.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,239


Why do people think Bernie running 3rd party will help Trump?

The GOP party wants Biden to get the nomination to get help get Trump elected.
 

viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,396
Wealthy white Bernie bro youtube creators who aren't affected by anything Trump does, announce they're bernie or bust:





This along with all the highly suspect "low information voter" dogshit hopefully raises some flags for some of you who follow these morons. No hard feelings, I followed Kyle, Hasan too but once push came to shove, these people proved to be ideologues and conspiracy theorists who nobody should waste their time on. How can you consider yourself a leftie if you don't care if someone who doesn't believe in climate change stays in power? Why praise Bernie for his climate change stance when you unequivocally have proven to not care about it? Is it just a talking point to win internet debates after all?


The Biden campaign invited the head of Data For Progress to their headquarters to plan Climate Change policy.
 
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