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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Fantastic points.
I've also gained a lot of traction with telling people that the idea of "choice" when it comes to health care is completely bonkers. You don't go on Yelp for doctors when you're having a heart attack, and even highly educated people don't understand what's in-network, out of network, co-pays, co-insurance.
I use my own example of saying, "I actually have socialized medicine. Let me explain how it works." (It's because I'm in the military, for the record.) I tell people that I'm notified when I'm overdue for vaccinations, and I show up with my ID card, and that's it. Medicine's free, whether it's for shoulder pain or therapy. I don't have to worry about networks, and not having that anxiety means that I'm more likely to seek treatment for something like bronchitis before it turns into pneumonia.
As far as health care goes, though -- no one actually loves their health insurance plan, even if it's decent; they're just afraid that the alternative would be worse.
This very concern showed up after Super Tuesday last week.
Unless I'm mistaken, nobody addressed the concerns that Biden is quite likely to continue the Obama period of allowing those at the bottom to suffer, and Biden supporters are somehow championing him as the savior America really needs. If people are comfortable with him replacing Trump and stopping that, that's one thing. But saying one of the top three worst candidates to run on the Dem side on the policy and historical front is the change America needs, you must be living a gilded life. It wasn't exclusively under Donald Trump that America became home to third-world conditions. The frontrunner is part of that legacy too.
That said, I don't think people on this forum at least really have aversions of being around "The Poors." There is a level of comfort, perhaps being familiar with the suffering of the past over the current suffering of today, and especially the unknown of the future by those who suggest massive change, but I genuinely doubt many people averse to radical change are the sociopathic Silicon Valley libertarian types who are only upset about homelessness because it makes their bus commute visually unappealing.
You also don't have to worry. While M4A is pie in the sky, Biden said he's gonna cure diabetes. Pitiful that there are people who do find that more likely...
Maybe a little? A fair amount is done with mail in ballots. The demographic that would be most likely hardest hit is also the demographic that would go and vote regardless
Not really a concern in the general as of right now. Too far off and no way to know how Corona will have shook out by then.
As for the Primary - who knows is probably the best answer, but the reality is Primary electorates are typically much, much lower than the GE or election itself. Maybe it eats into it, but it won't actually change the result as of right now.
Being convinced that people with different opinions are not acting in good faith is how serious rifts between groups who should be allies form.
Never heard of this group weird that parts of the website just won't load for me
Again - democrats are quick to adopt simply any position that will get them more votes. Moment it comes to deliver - they do nothing. Large reason why I am leaving the party and not voting for neoliberal candidates going forward, including Biden in the general.
My biggest issue with Biden is that not only will he not do anything but give more power to the DNC donor class (corporations/lobbyist), but this exact scenario will simply enable another GOP president & House/Senate that is potentially going to be just as bad as Trump is now, only without the bumbling dumbness of Trump. Trump with more subtlety and who abuses all thats available to him while also being somewhat effective? Its a terrifying thought. And, imo, we're headed for it.
Warren was the best speaker on stage she could adapt a message and explain how different folks were effected differently by issues. She could swing from women being paid less to lack of wealth in the AA community.
Honesty? LOL.
The biggest thing that will help Biden win is this virus kicking America's ass and exposing this administration for the farce that it is. Anything short of that and Trump wins.
What are you basing this out of? Do you have any polls or data that shows Trump polling ahead of Biden? Please share...
Ya'll truly underestimating this incumbency factor. You really wanna take polls after 2016 at face value? Seriously?
We're talking about a guy with the resources and the full backing of the GOP behind him, with the full power of the executive at his disposal, who knows that if he loses, his entire legacy could go up in flames, on top of finally being investigated for real. And a huge propaganda network doing everything in their power to ensure he wins.
Basically - I don't trust polls. Anyone who still does in the current political climate is a fool. And especially regarding Trump and in a GE matchup. Even if you take polls at face value, Biden & Trump is simply far too close for Trump not to gain a potential boost on election day, which he most certainly will.
On top of all this, anecdotally, I know of a ton of people who didn't vote in 2016 who have made it their absolute mission to get Trump re-elected in 2020, and in PA of all places. As for me? I'm a Bernie supporter who went Hillary in '16 in the general who ain't voting for Biden this time around. So yeah - winning this time, imo, is going to be even harder than it was last time.
Ah, I see. Another person who does not understand statistics and representative sampling. Cool.
Working Families Party Endorses Bernie Sanders for President
Sanders is “best suited to deliver on the change that many people in the Warren campaign were committed to,” WFP National Director Maurice Mitchell said.
theintercept.com
Might be too late, but they stand by their principles. I like that. More people should like that.
So you're just talking nonsense and ignoring any data that doesn't confirm to your narrow opinion. Got it.
Funny how these same people always seem to think Bernie has a chance at beating Trump yet Biden doesn't.
Working Families Party Endorses Bernie Sanders for President
Sanders is “best suited to deliver on the change that many people in the Warren campaign were committed to,” WFP National Director Maurice Mitchell said.
Might be too late, but they stand by their principles. I like that. More people should like that.
Might be too late? I doubt their endorsement moves needles anywhere regardless of when it is done.
I think I speak for everyone and thanking you for your support and great wisdom on this topic.
The polls weren't wrong, the polls were actually accurate as they did show the race tighten in the key states that Clinton lost. Polls were also on point in 2018.
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hillary had thirty years and millions of dollars spent marketing her as an evil Lying witch. Not the ordinary venal bullshit for regular politicians- but an intense gender focused deliberate and passionate and hateful effort to destroy her even before they thought she'd be a candidate. Biden's getting a concentrated blast of that via Hunter Burisma, who changed his name by deed poll from Swiftboat Benghazi.
is Hillary dishonest? Sure, but Hillary was also the single most scrutinized politician in history and one of the most expensive acts of personal destruction the GOP ever sponsored and it worked.
her "cookie recipe" quip was the GOP's Trump getting roasted by Obama moment. They started that day and never quit. She was a terrible candidate at least in part because of the fictional and FUD version the media continued to repeat. If Biden wins the nomination then he is just getting started with his cliff's notes version for 2020.
It's going to be ugly and the media is going to amplify it with complicity. Bernie too but his will be red scare baiting rather than scandal or innuendo.
Compared to polls a month ago there's been a huge shift. Which to me reinforces the stupidity of this entire process. This idea of "momentum" and a "narrative" that allows states that vote earlier to influence states that vote later is incredibly undemocratic.
Ideally it should be like a GE. Done in a single day, secret ballot (no caucuses), and preferrably ranked choice so it's always the majority of voters agreeing on a cantidate.
Oh Bernie. Not a good look leaning into that bad faith narrative.
If only there was something you personally could do to affect this predicted outcome.
It should be noted here (before people "just ask questions") that a simple Google will reveal he spoke for about 15 minutes at KC, and about 10 minutes in St Louis.
All these systems have their pros and cons, simply the nature of the beast. It's certainly not undemocratic that people can be influenced by other states' results, and actually has the added benefit of seeing how candidates and campaigns respond to a shifting electorate.
While I agree that all primaries should happen on the same day, that has its drawbacks as well, and isn't inherently more or less democratic than a decentralized voting process.
That would make Primaries insanely expensive and very difficult for anyone who doesn't have massive, pre-existing name recognition to compete in. I'm all for ranked choice, though.
Purity tests are a centrist buzzword that doesn't mean shit to me. You are asking the same thing every centrist and liberal has asked of the left for decades. To give up on the things that matter, kick them down the line. "Just wait!" No fucking thank you. The only reason any progress is actually made is when those "radicals" who came before said fuck the establishment and pushed for change. It wasn't easy and it didn't always work, but without those people who ignored those who told them to wait we wouldn't even have half of what we do now. It wasn't people choosing incrementalism. We would have even more if the politics and people you are pushing for weren't in the way in the first place.
So you're a dick to anyone who isn't a Sanders supporter? Like, I'm not sure how else to read this, especially when you throw Warren into the pile for some reason.
Yep. His campaign advisors should have told him no, but they also are the ones spreading doctored videos.
Amy would kinda be a meh pick. I'm sure this isn't the only possibilities ofc. Thank god Pete isn't there lol.
But when you fill 45 minutes by saying the same two things over and over.....
lol he spent that segment trying his fucking hardest not to talk about Biden's brain falling out. They even showed clips of liberals and candidates on MSNBC months ago talking about it to back up the question in the audience that was trying to get Sanders to say Joe has dementia and yet he still didn't bite. Saying Biden can't talk for more than 7 minutes is letting Biden off. Of course I would argue to go harder on him so I don't even agree wit the initial premise of the attack on Sanders, but he isn't even doing what people are saying he is doing.
Alternative take: A choice between a "true progressive" and a neo-nazi loving Republican would result in the Republican win.
I'm genuinely sympathetic - I'm 42 years old, and yet I can honestly see that before I die the ice-caps will be irrecoverably damaged, the South American rainforests will be destroyed, and water will become a scarce resource.
And yet I look at the UK, where Corbyn repeatedly refused to step-down, and think "Fuck me, yes, incrementalism would mean that there wouldn't be a sub-class of people who have to choose between food and heating, and where legitimate British citizens weren't deported to a country they have never seen in their lives". If you ask me if I would rather have an incrementalist Centre-Left/Left leader in power, or a Left/Socialist leader forever tilting at windmills, then I would say I'm not heartless, and would rather the lives of some of the most vulnerable were improved than a right-wing government continue to shit on the poors whilst making money.
Once again, I understand where you're coming from, but you have to see that "Bernie is the only one who can save us" 1) only works if a voting majority believes that, and 2) dismisses the needs of the many until that one moment when the stars align and everything can be improved for everyone.
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The funny thing is if you could implant 2020 Bernie, a known quantity with a nationwide campaign from the jump with at least a somewhat better understanding of how to appeal to parts of the party, into the 2016 race he actually might have won or at least made it a true contested convention.
In 2016, he was an insurgent who never actually had a winning campaign until it was too late. In 2020, nobody cared about the insurgent or outsider. They just wanted the best person to beat Trump.
No Yang makes me sad. He's perfect for Senior Advisor to Innovation. That was the same role when Biden was VP that we got our first serious governmental inquiry into automation. Alec Ross, who held that role, argued UBI would be seen as necessary with each successive election that it wasn't enacted.
Again, perfect for Yang. But I guess he can't run his UBI project if he's doing that too.
I like Yang a lot, but he shouldn't sniff VP at all. The three named possible picks are all acceptable in that they could step into the office of POTUS and govern based upon their prior experience. (That's why Pete's a complete non-starter: I also think Pete's self-aware and realizes he doesn't have the experience to do the job.) That's not Yang.
There absolutely should be a role for Yang, though.
What's wrong with Fox? It's the most trusted news network, so say Fox!
This is anecdotal but I talked to my family who are die hard Dems.
My dad isn't voting in the primary to avoid crowds and the coronavirus. He can't decide between Biden or Bernie. (I obviously reminded him to vote by mail...)
My little brother is voting for Bernie again.
My mom who's on maintenance chemo for the rest of her life probably is switching to Biden! Of all things it was the heart attack that changed her mind. I thought it was interesting since she was diehard for Bernie in 2016 and now switched to Biden even though she would obviously benefit from Bernie's healthcare plan more.
My dad isn't voting in the primary to avoid crowds and the coronavirus. He can't decide between Biden or Bernie. (I obviously reminded him to vote by mail...)
My little brother is voting for Bernie again.
My mom who's on maintenance chemo for the rest of her life probably is switching to Biden! Of all things it was the heart attack that changed her mind. I thought it was interesting since she was diehard for Bernie in 2016 and now switched to Biden even though she would obviously benefit from Bernie's healthcare plan more.
Also, why is he on Fox... again???
Bro, you're in the Democratic Primary.... fucking act like it for once in your life.
Bro, you're in the Democratic Primary.... fucking act like it for once in your life.
Can Amy be head of the Secret Service if she divests herself of all Swingline stock to avoid a conflict of interest?
Not likely to be a factor in Michigan since there still aren't any confirmed cases here. Washington could end up being a different story.
I read the tweet incorrectly. I thought it was far reaching enough to just be about his cabinet. Of course he doesn't belong anywhere near VP.
Neither does Klobuchar.
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