They are there now there's no point in sending them home. Voting should be an easy task not something difficult and cumbersome as possible.
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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this has been known that 4pm is the deadline for early voting
4 p.m. Monday is the deadline for early voting in Michigan’s presidential primary
A number of communities have proposals on the March 10 ballot.
www.mlive.com
if they have issues with showing up today, they could have done mail-in voting for the past couple of weeks.
Honestly, if the not Bernie stuff does turn into not AOC stuff and we end up with Buttigieg then it's going to be the progressive version of "I would vote for a woman, but not for this woman"
Okay uhh don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying they need to build on the squad. Never called them outcasts or whatever you're saying.
Sorry, I'll try and be more conscientious. I agree with you in that case. After people here tried to argue that I called clyburn "clay urn" as some sort of racial epithet instead of a typo I've been reading a lot of bad faith into certain things.
Considering how quickly popular sentiment for Warren went super positive as soon as she dropped out, I think AOC will definitely have to deal with that.
The problem is going to first emerge from inside the (metaphorical, not the government body) house, not from her ideological opposition.
I agree, it's an exciting time to be an American leftist. It's going to take time to take hold but I think we'll win in the end. Liberalism is in its death throes, people just haven't got the memo yet.
Edit: I misread your post even though you tried to guide me to the right interpretation.
Could you build on that please? I'm not quite getting what you are saying.
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The revolution has been right around the corner for a century+ now. But this time it will be different.
Id like to know how its done. My thought process usually goes to people who you want to convince want what they want out of the situatiion. If that goes toward policy I dont know how you convince them. Biden will have his own policy and Bernie will have his own policy and while they have common ground in some ways they alao have many aspects that are different. So im not sure how you really tackle that angle because a perosn that wants thos epolicies simply wants them unless you are trying to convince them that they somehow dont? Once you start going into the effects of what a second Trump term could mean, im not sure why shaming is a part of the equation. I would think that a person would most likely want to prevent this or else we wouldnt be having a conversation to begin with. Where is the line when it comes to shaming people? We cant just shield ourselves from regretting mistakes we make or what possible actions we can take to prevent certain things from happening. When are we allowed to feel bad about stuff? I cant speak for anyone else but I feel preventing Trump from having a second terms is a super valid reason to vote at all costs and to want others to vote too.
Tea Partiers lucked into their current situation, and now they don't even have the House. I wouldn't use them as an example of an effective grassroots movement. They got Boehner to quit politics and become a pot head at least, so that's fun.
I don't know how you can look at Warren and Bernie and think that's the best way things could have gone, that there couldn't be a way better progressive campaign.
In his defense, an entire generation that grew up being spoon-fed propaganda is going to die. That could have a pretty huge impact.
The factors behind social democracy's success and attempts to move beyond that level of state intervention in the economy failing miserably aren't based on propaganda.
Be careful when using the performance of Bernie and Warren to prognosticate a future AOC run as voters care FAR MORE about electability than they have in the past.
Actually I saw a poll a few weeks back that if just asked who dem voters think would be the best President Warren won by quite a bit. But that factors less than previous years.
Obama probably couldn't even win with the current mentality of today's voters. He would be seen as too much a risk. (PSA guys even have said this).
Actually I saw a poll a few weeks back that if just asked who dem voters think would be the best President Warren won by quite a bit. But that factors less than previous years.
Obama probably couldn't even win with the current mentality of today's voters. He would be seen as too much a risk. (PSA guys even have said this).
Nah. While there was friction between Obama and the DNC in '08, he never constantly railed against them even though they truly were favoring Clinton at the time. Then, he ran away with the win early on in demos that mattered and the rest is history.
"Liberalism" and "socialism" and "social democracy" get thrown around so much - and quite honestly, Americans use them so incorrectly, that I didn't interpret what he was saying the same way I guess. I don't think we are overthrowing capitalism entirely here. I do think we can move to a more benevolent form.
Verdict also isn't completely out on that, btw. Be careful making absolute claims.
Electability has always been used for or against candidates. The electability argument was used EXTENSIVELY against Obama by Hillary's camp in 2008.
Difference is Obama was one of the most charismatic speakers of our generation, which allowed him to overcome that. The reality is that charm and style goes a long way for a candidate. Elections remain, and likely always will be, a popularity contest.
What I mean is that the stuff with AOC re: Warren on SNL? That's the immediate danger before you even get to the point of having to win over other parts of the coalition.
I hope it IS different this time, and we can win out before it's too late. Even making America a social democracy would ease the suffering of millions of people.
Not just charismatic, he also made it a point to be conciliatory and not rail against a DNC that actually did try to impede him. Clinton became a part of his admin at one point. Her surrogates got high positions within the DNC.
Every read is the same, he should have tried harder with AA
This, and Bernie fails miserably in this regard. He is a flawed candidate, it's time to move on from him.
Yea but would voters have been as inclined to take the risk if the stakes were seen as much higher?
There just hasn't been such a high importance placed on electability has we have this year.
Yep, that also the big one. Obama's slogan was "change" NOT "revolution." I know it might sound like semantics but optics like this matter so much in elections.
If Bernie had taken this approach from 2016+ instead of going for the eternal contrarian outside approach I think he'd be the nominee right now.
Yep. Need to adapt the message for the audience. People who have experienced the history and the middle aged who learned extensively about the past will know their use to be a social safety net and know there's a reason it was taken away. Any messages that are pushing class unification needs to focus on what's being done to ensure it's not just white people who benefit. It also needs acknowledge that, while race and class are correlated in a great deal of things, the origins of racism are separate and distinct from economic concerns and need their own policies adapted to those issues. It does not need "white Mississippi republicans are not majority racist and if they only had a little bit of economic help they'd forget all the racial resentment and hatred.".
Joe Biden as the Olive Garden of candidates is a pretty amusing metaphor. And probably apt.
For one thing, there was a tweet around the time
AOC got elected that I felt was spot on. We shouldn't be asking ourselves "how do we get AOC elected president?" so much as "how do we get 250 AOCs elected to Congress?" Gotta start building the bench and making sure when one of those AOCs lands the top job, they have the infrastructure behind them.
As it stands Gen Xers and millennials barely get involved in politics the way AOC did to the point where the youths had freaking Buttigieg repping us. Not to undermine AOC's achievement, but what she did isn't (or at least, shouldn't be) that extraordinary - Crowley was ancient and stopped caring about connecting with his district. There are a bunch of Congresspeople like that, and a lot on the Republican side who were termed out by moderate Democrats last time. (Thinking of my former rep, Erik Paulsen who ghosted our district for seven years and coasted on lazy moderates voting R downticket out of some misguided notion of "checks and balances")
I do know something about how to convince people -- or at least, I hope I do. (I'm a lawyer, and I was a trial lawyer, so persuasion is literally part of my job.)
I think you're completely right in that shaming doesn't work. Honestly, each person responds differently to various stimuli. If I want to convince my parents, who live in Pennsylvania, to vote for Joe Biden (Bernie's a non-starter there for them), effective techniques would include showing evidence that their Social Security and Medicare won't be touched combined with pleas to do me, specifically, a favor. If I wanted to convince someone else, the techniques would be different.
Also, trying to score points doesn't work. You may win Internet points for being technically correct, but it doesn't actually accomplish anything meaningful. Sometimes you've just got to eat shit and, as the persuader, double down on humility. You also need to have credibility and be willing to admit when you're wrong. I also think that people intuitively know when you're actively listening and attempting to establish a dialogue.
Anyway, as far as convincing people in this thread? I can think of only a handful of posters that I know well enough to even attempt to convince, and that's because we've actually had conversations and they understand that I'm coming at things with good intentions.
What would convince you? And actually, that goes for anyone reading this: what would convince you, specifically, understanding that we're all different?
People vote based on the times. Obama was perfect for the time, two wars and a deeply unpopular President really had people pissed. He was young and vibrant and gave people hope, right around the time the economy went to shit. Obama was also a very savvy politician, which matters a lot.
But now we're at a time where people's faith in our institutions are at an all time low. People recoiling into "electability" makes some sense considering how uncertain things are, and how hated Trump is.
really brought the advertisers back to Fox News which is what's really important
Lol if AOC ran people wouldn't care about that. Online leftists like that are going to fall behind the furthest left candidate in the race. She'd almost certainly be that. No online leftist cares about Bernie on guns, etc.
Kind of hard not to notice the irony of many of the people saying Bernie failed for not knowing how to build a bigger base being some of the most vicious to anyone who isn't immediately excited to vote for someone like Biden.
User Banned (April 10th): Repeatedly violating the Primary OT staff post (metacommentary)
Bingo. We have a community thread that constantly attacks Medicare 4 all. They constantly shit on the most progressive policy in history when it comes to healthcare. They then insult sanders supporters by saying things like "its pie in the sky" "it will never pass" "you need the senate!" like we don't know that this would be a difficult fight?
But you know what? I don't believe these attacks on M4A are done in good faith. They just don't want to share a doctors office with poor people. They don't want to change the system they have in place because it benefits them. Meanwhile people like me can't even afford a regular supply of insulin. They tell us that a moderate would be better for me, but uhh a moderate president left vulnerable people like me with absolute shit healthcare coverage. Its pie in the sky to believe Biden will help people like me lol.
Because they are totally entering the thread saying, "I really wanted Bernie to win, and I don't know if I can support Biden."
And not, "Fuck another 4 years of Trump, Biden can't win, here is a tweet showing he is going through dementia and a tweet with a right wing talking point to boot. And I'm not voting!"
You need to find out why they want those policies. If you're talking M4A to someone who has decent work based insurance and is afraid to lose it, you could say that M4A would allow them to not have to change insurance if they switch/lose their job. Tell them it will help the economy by allowing more people to start new businesses because they don't need to worry about insurance. Let them know that some workers may retire earlier than 65 and open up more senior positions if they don't need to work for insurance. Just saying it's a human right is great for a certain segment of the population, but those aren't the ones you need to attract to expand a coalition. Bernie's failure was his inability to sell his ideas as a better way for everyone.
I'm trying to not get my hopes up for November but God damn I hope Biden kicks his ass.
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