What? How can this be true in the face of Bernie getting demolished in the primary and his favorables being very bad on top of it?
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
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What? How can this be true in the face of Bernie getting demolished in the primary and his favorables being very bad on top of it?
Except if this is all preparation for the general he's failing. He's losing by a lot.
I can only speak for myself, I don't know if this is meant to specifically target anyone here or if it's just general thoughts, but let me just say I've been beating this drum since I voted in my first election (2010) and no one gave a shit. Some of my friends turned out for Obama, hardly any of them voted in the midterms, and there were several who sat out 2016 or voted third party. My greatest concern over 2020 in the situation that we win is as you described - people assume we're "back to normal" and resume their apathy towards politics. This is true whether it's Bernie, Biden or anyone else in the White House.
I don't think the problem is as easy as pinning it on Hillary, or Biden, or Trump or any one politician. I'm rather upset that even in my personal life I've seen a number of progressives who shill for Bernie and seem to think that's the extent of progressivism and activism. People who I know for a fact did not give two fucks about politics and did not vote before 2016, suddenly ramming TYT talking points down my throat and accusing me of siding with the enemy because I was less optimistic than they that Bernie would prevail in the primary. A lot of people took 2016 as a perfect opportunity to show their ass. It was, in fact, the least opportune moment for them to do that.
I honestly feel electing Biden along with a Democratic Congress is about as good a step as any we can take towards rebuilding and making progress again, even swapping out Biden for Bernie. The onus is then on progressives to pressure Biden, Pelosi, Schumer et al to move left in policy. We can rally, we can protest, but fundamentally we need to vote. We need to turn out in 2022, in 2024, in 2026 and so on and so forth. But for right this second, I'm just tired, man. P
I think things like his immigration policies and the drone strikes are some of the biggest black marks on his presidency, but weirdly enough I don't think they ever got the traction they needed to be the level of a "scandal". In fact I don't think most people started holding Obama accountable for that until he left office.
Thank you. I was starting to feel alone. France is not 1% as bad and we're protesting all the time !
... that's not true at all?
If polling holds up tomorrow, Bernie is on track to lose by a greater % margin than the 55/43 vote and the 55/45 delegate ones Clinton beat him by in 2016. Which were already substantial.
Chris Matthews compared him to hitler after the Nevada Caucus
Chris Matthews is a jackass who nobody has listened to for years, before he was fired
It was a caucus , which isn't representative of anything. That's part of why he is being exposed this cycle -- a lot of states switched from caucus to primary
Also, he isn't really fighting the GOP. The President is pushing him on the daily, and Bernie's energy is focused on fighting Democrats
The right doesn't care enough about brown kids to make it a scandal, and I think the left went soft on him simply because he made nominal steps toward Iraq deescalation.
we don't know, maybe this week's SNL will have a special guest
Open primaries/caucuses are now hurting as well because the non-Dem anti-Hillary voters enabled by that structure aren't going for him this cycle.
Yet another segment on a show bashing Bernie and questions his electability
And it was definitely Biden's team and not the former bankers themselves who fed that story to Axios. Bank executives would never do something self serving like that.
Right, and shockingly now I keep seeing calls that say we need closed contests, which I distinctly remember not being the case in 2016 -- the candidate doesn't even consider himself a member of the party, after all
I voted for Bernie In CA , but I came to realization that you can't make everybody the enemy and still try to make a unity to bring people together.
then I saw how all the big Bernie supporters on twitter were basically retweeting trump supporter videos, saying that Biden and trump are the same and what not.
that was the final straw as it's all about getting trump out of office for what I want.
Obama was above criticism for Democrats and their media. I don't think there was any introspection those eight years, it was just deflection about what Republicans were doing. Foreign policy doesn't exist!
Black people went soft as hell on him too. It seemed like blasphemy to criticize him at times. I appreciate the folks who saw through Obama's crap and criticized him publicly. Shout-out to Cornell West and Tanehisi Coates.
This is especially apparent in people demanding unity or civility rather than presenting a defense when criticisms of Biden are brought up. Justice is not the goal and it's not a secret.
I don't know if you missed it, but Biden's team denied it. So it may not be them.
Dude, that thread got locked because trolls flagged it as "alt-right" when it was nothing of the sort.
Then the second thread that corrected this error also got locked because we're supposed to talk about it in here.
Where you're still going off with drivel like this.
Biden also said he was arrested for marching w/ Mandela. And his team denied that leak came about wanting to team up w/ Stacey Abrams from a while ago.
I know you likely didn't omit it on purpose, but let's not forget Flint. From Obama's propaganda about being thirsty - twice - to how there was pressure to not investigate more deeply into the exposure of legionnaires' disease, this was Obama's "Katrina moment."
For people who want to get tilted at what I just wrote, please watch this and let's not try to paint it as an alt-right video because it criticizes "one of our own"...
I can understand people feeling disinterested out of hopelessness. Millennials and Gen Z have zero prospects, hopes, and futures in this society, so in that respect they have valid reasons to tune out. But it's precisely that they have no prospects, hopes, or futures that should give them the understanding that there's the ability and fury to upend the entire thing. Normalize policies, have a vision, and demand it to be so. Just on the game of time such groups will eventually overthrow the dinosaurs, so even if the victories are slow and progress too slow a needle, and even potentially too late to solve, this is a much better approach than just hoping the old people die off, other people make "The Good Society" and you can just walk right in.
We are all society. I don't mean this in The Joker meme status, but I mean by what we live in, what we accept, and what we do. Apathy is a form of acceptance. If one accepts this insoluble arrangement, all it does is prolong the disease. We should be asking ourselves why is it we seem to be putting our faith in dinosaur people. Where and why is there a failure, even in the Democratic party, to represent real people as the form and function of the party, not as unique examples found in waves? These are things the youth should be addressing while they hold the anchors of progress and decency accountable.
To link all of this to today, why is it that we seem to have the perfect firestorm of disasters that show us programs like paid family and sick leave, comprehensive healthcare reform, universal housing, and a guaranteed income can ease suffering? The youth, those who inherit this society, support all of these ideas, yet you barely see that represented in the political body. Push people who do, support people in races even if they'll lose to normalize the ideas, and hold the old and wrong accountable, showing them that such resistance to such ideas can only go wrong when ideas of normalcy and illusion fade, very much like this very moment.
TaNehisi Coates has a really interesting perspective on Obama that chronicles his admiration and criticism of the president, and how that changed his perspective of what the Presidency actually is.
Ta-Nehisi Coates on What Changed in the ‘Obama Decade’ — and What Didn’t
Talking reparations, Kaepernick, and the first black president with the writer who may be the definitive chronicler of racial politics in the 2010s.
nymag.com
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I think the framing of the video (Trump is trustworthy, Biden is not) got conflated with the video itself.
I think the stuff he was talking about before saying he would not support Biden was far more interesting. So I ask, why did you choose to draw attention to the person saying they would vote for Biden? If you truly didn't care about what he said why would you point out that you don't care about it?
I don't put much trust in Axios as it is.
It's no coincidence that Politico improved dramatically when Mike Allen left it to start up Axios. While I am reticent to judge someone by the character of their father, Allen's statements about his relationship with Gary Allen have always been evasive and troubling. Either way, Mike Allen trades in the sort of access-based-back-scratching journalism that I have always found distasteful at best.
I still can't believe that people aren't going after him more for this.
This primary more than any other for me has driven home the importance of a strong third party in this country, the shit that the DNC and RNC brings forth are usually different shades of the same color. I am hoping after the GE a new party for Progressives is formed, and should they do so I would do everything in my power to help it succeed.
Reminder about metacommentary
Official Staff Communication
The last few pages are rife with people coming in here to complain about other threads, which is against the rules of the thread. We understand that the recent thread lock had some of our members confused and upset, and we do apologize for the mistake. That said, this is not an excuse to start fights in this thread, or to break the rules of the staff post.
However, given our prior mistake, we will be issuing warnings to all members who broke the metacommentary rule, rather than ban. In the meantime, we ask that everyone cools off.
We aren't here to keep anyone down or silence any legitimate and acceptable political speech. We are simply trying to keep the peace. We are trying to keep posters from tearing each other apart. All we want is for people to stop attacking and making insinuations about each other. We can debate and argue about the best way to bring about a better future for the US, and the best way to help marginalized people who need aid, but that doesn't give us license to tear each other apart.
However, given our prior mistake, we will be issuing warnings to all members who broke the metacommentary rule, rather than ban. In the meantime, we ask that everyone cools off.
We aren't here to keep anyone down or silence any legitimate and acceptable political speech. We are simply trying to keep the peace. We are trying to keep posters from tearing each other apart. All we want is for people to stop attacking and making insinuations about each other. We can debate and argue about the best way to bring about a better future for the US, and the best way to help marginalized people who need aid, but that doesn't give us license to tear each other apart.
That's true, and I'd say the main reason I didn't mention it is that I think of it as more of a state-level policy failure. However, I think you're right that we need to think of it in terms of how the federal government reacted to it. Indeed, I'd say just about every catalyzing event for the #BLM movement (of which this was just one) was an example of this. I don't think we can talk about the rise of Trump specifically without talking about the tepid reaction of the Obama regime to that, because it further ennobled white supremacy in public.
Or, for that matter, the way the #NoDAPL protests played out.
It's kind of frustrating seeing people pick apart Bernie's campaign as if Biden put any amount of effort into his. All the takes are so fucking stupid. There was an actual progressive candidate who ran the type of campaign you think Bernie should have ran. Her name was Warren and she got 3rd in her home state. Imagine seeing the success of all these conservative dems: Biden, Bloomberg, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, etc. and thinking the problem was Bernie's tone.
But clearly this means Sanders is in a better position to beat Trump, somehow...
Oh Sanders is in trouble no question but my question with Biden as the nominee how will he do in the states that were democratic but went for Trump in 2016 in a general election he needs no pun intended to build up the blue wall again.
Polls released today are pretty good for Biden v Trump in the 3 midwestern states he needs. I'd almost call PA a lock since its practically his home state. biden also puts Florida more in play.
That's why the increased turnout in the primaries is so encouraging. I really want to see the numbers for MI, WI, PA, Ohio, and Florida.
I kinda think Joe is teflon when it comes to things like these. Like, if it was any other candidate, it would matter, but I think a lot of people just shrug it off as "Joe being Joe".
It's being picked apart because Biden's has been so bad! Biden's campaign had a year and a half of lazy awfulness (outside of a pretty decent social media team the last few months) that got made up for in a week of Jim Clyburn endorsing and getting the campaign to step into overdrive in a way unprecedented in US politics. The entire reason Biden's team had this opportunity is because no other candidate moved the needle any significant amount to win over black voters in South Carolina except for TOM STEYER. Meaning that Sanders' failure to gain significant amounts of new voters presented Biden with the opportunity to leverage, and leverage it they did.
with the lock reasons of some of those threads being "use the primary thread" I'm not sure why you expect there to not be meta commentary?
I haven't seen anything recent, but in 2019 Biden was winning like 85% of voters who disliked both him and Trump, a massive improvement on Clinton's numbers in 2016 exit polling.
Yeah but people are putting their energy into dishonest mental health attacks when there's actual bullshit that gets practically ignored. Even if he's teflon it makes more sense to call him out for the things he actually has done.
Yeah, I been reading We Were Eight Years in Power and appreciate Coates' honesty. I had similar criticisms back then about Obama.
Maybe we would have had Warren had Bernie chose to sit out this election instead if running again.
Same with Biden.
Old white men's egos can't handle it.
I think Bernie could have spent more time in SC. But after seeing Biden + Bloomberg's success elsewhere - it's really not clear if he ever had a shot.
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