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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Open your eyeballs, go on Twitter
I'm not going do the work for you just so you can explain away someone's toxicity. If you don't see a problem with the shitty way people have been acting then there is going to be no getting through to you. Hell im sure you can find toxic Bernie fans on here as well.
It's really weird to see people flipping out over Warren endorsing somebody because there isn't really a lot of evidence that endorsements are that effective. There's certainly little reason to suspect that Warren endorsing Sanders would have any effect on his campaign. It kinda just feels like Sanders' supporters are just grasping at straws to avoid admitting that the primary is pretty much over at this point.
Yeah....because that's what you do and it's about time. Republicans do it, it works for them all the damn time why can't we do it. Why does it always have to be "no this person is not good enough"
you know what republicans do? Oh it got a R next to it? Vote for it.
are you seriously asking this? because this isn't a fucking football game where it's just about one team winning over the other. maybe some people actually care about policies and shit
CNN poll: Biden has double-digit lead over Sanders for Democratic nomination
Former Vice President Joe Biden has a double-digit lead over Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders for the Democratic presidential nomination, a new CNN poll of Democratic voters nationwide conducted by SSRS shows.
Ok here are the replies to the AOC:
Is there a single horrible toxic bernie bro comment that'd you'd like to point out in particular? I really want to know what your basing your claims off
I'm just glad Bloomberg didn't win. Imagine the nuclear-hot takes we'd be seeing right about now if he had.
I mean, it's both. The Primary should have people voting for who they believe they want to run in November. And once November comes, anyone who cares about the future of the country should vote for whoever is the Democratic candidate.
If you are focusing on extremely online people then you are getting an extremely filtered and self selected and/or selected for you by an algorithm that feeds you content you engage with. combined with bad faith actors (trolls and other states wanting to sow discord) your view on society its likely not representative of reality.
You can find toxic fans of everything. But if we are talking about if Bernie fans being more toxic than other front runner fans, then even the data we have shows that Bernie fans are toxic to the same proportion as supporters of any of the other front-runners. yes it feels like they are more toxic because there is literally more very online bernie stans than of any other candidate.
I absolutely implore people to get off twitter. it gives very loud megaphones to absolute shitheads and it ends up with you getting views of what certain groups of people are like based off of a sample size that doesn't represent the group.
Brilliant post that everyone needs to follow.
We shouldn't be doing the job of fucking DONALD TRUMP and spread alt-right smears and lies about the soon-to-be Democratic Nominee for President that will be our only hope to defeat Trump.
it happened with hillary. and it will continue to happen with biden.
its wrong to spread conspiracies yes, but there are genuine reasons to not be happy with Biden and if someone has a problem with Biden's many issues then they are well within their right to criticize him for that no matter their political background.
This just all sounds like setting up the backdrop to blaming Bernie supporters if Biden loses again...
Guys we have to come together as a group and i think characterizing fans of a nominee of being certain ways will do nothing but drive a wedge.
Biden fans:
Bernie supporters are scared because Biden doesn't want to do a lot of the things they feel is really important. Things that if they aren't done may lead to the further struggles of people they really care about. give them a carrot, tell them its going to be okay and that you will continue to fight for the things they care about, you just believe Biden is the first step on the way to those goals. yes its looks likely that Biden is gonna win the nominee so be a graceful winner I know its tough to talk to a lot of people that are being adversarial but its because they are feeling rejected its best to not make them feel further cast out.
Bernie fans:
Thigns are gonna be okay, Id rather bernie won too but if the democratic membership arent there for it then so be it. A lot of people in the US want politics to return to stability first. when we are on "solid ground" we can then work together to push for the more radical (for the US ) policies that we want to see. please be open to supporting Biden if he gets the nominee, he isn't perfect but we may not have a choice.
This just all sounds like setting up the backdrop to blaming Bernie supporters if Biden loses again...
Guys we have to come together as a group and i think characterizing fans of a nominee of being certain ways will do nothing but drive a wedge.
Biden fans:
Bernie supporters are scared because Biden doesn't want to do a lot of the things they feel is really important. Things that if they aren't done may lead to the further struggles of people they really care about. give them a carrot, tell them its going to be okay and that you will continue to fight for the things they care about, you just believe Biden is the first step on the way to those goals. yes its looks likely that Biden is gonna win the nominee so be a graceful winner I know its tough to talk to a lot of people that are being adversarial but its because they are feeling rejected its best to not make them feel further cast out.
Bernie fans:
Thigns are gonna be okay, Id rather bernie won too but if the democratic membership arent there for it then so be it. A lot of people in the US want politics to return to stability first. when we are on "solid ground" we can then work together to push for the more radical (for the US ) policies that we want to see. please be open to supporting Biden if he gets the nominee, he isn't perfect but we may not have a choice.
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Doesn't feel like there were lessons learned from 2016 so it it's pretty clear that's exactly where we're heading
That's literally impossible with Biden though. Even if Biden wins, which is doubtful, a return to Obama era "civility and stability" politics is not going to do anything to stop the rise of neo-facism in the US. And the US hasn't even gotten the worst of it, try having a real refugee crisis and the republicans are going to start winning literally everything.
Except that we literally have an example of people citing Michael Brooks saying "no" and a praying emoji as "attack".
I know these are my concerns too. But a return to normal may allow the Democratic party to refocus on these issues instead of just being reactive against trump. I would be surprised if Biden can do any more than one term anyway so dems will have to get someone ready for 2024 (I'm hoping for AoC personally)
But even if things transpire as we fear then a managed decline is still vastly preferable to Trumps scorched earth. I know this isnt a very positive outlook on my half and it makes it more difficult to get enthusiastic about biden. but what happens is what happens.
Speaking of lessons, as someone who didn't follow the 2016 election and didn't know who McGovern was, I find this look back on the 1972 election to be fascinating:
What Democrats Still Don’t Get About McGovern
The party took all the wrong lessons from his landslide loss to Richard Nixon in '72.
newrepublic.com
It's also pretty frightening and disheartening. The article was written in 2016, but many parts feel echo 2020 and 1972. It's a pretty long piece, but I suggest everyone read it. A few quotes:
Whoever wins the nom - and it's pretty much guaranteed to be Biden, even if Warren magically endorses Bernie today -, it's gonna be tough. If Biden wins the nom, people should vote for him if they want the lesser of two evils, but I'm not sure the increased turn-out in the Primaries will translate to a GE turn-out that's energized enough to beat Trump's base, especially when some key demographics were overwhelmingly in favor of Sanders (namely the young and Latinx people). Trump, though he's sundowning like Biden, is still the incumbent, with a high approval rating and a perception that the economy is in good shape to boot. And Biden's appeal to decency and dignity and centrist platform might not provide enough contrast to Trump's platform to motivate everyone. It lacks boldness and vision but blindly acts like being dignified is enough to beat the guy who won precisely because he said "screw you" to the rules. It remains to be seen how much coronavirus impacts the race though. It's kind of a wild card. And I wonder how much ground game will matter as well; Biden campaigns more than he did before ST, but it's not like his appearances are long or anything. Then again, Sanders has been busting his ass off on that front from day 1, yet here we are.
What's this I hear of Joe's campaign only letting him speak for 7 mins at a rally and changing the debate rules so he can sit down? I guess they don't have to hide his condition anymore now that he's the frontrunner.
Get this rightwing conspiracy theory trash out of here. This is "Obama was born in Kenya."/"Hillary is hiding that she is very ill and dying" right wing fake social media trash.
What you "hear" is made up fake alt-right conspiracies that Bernie twitter has shamelessly latched on to.
What you hear are lies spread by the Dirtbag Left on twitter. Check your goddamn sources.
Stop. Believing. Alt-Right. Lies. Jesus Christ people. This isn't funny.
I knew it would be like this when Bernie lost again. Was why I hoped he wouldn't run again and Warren, the much better politician, could grab those progressive votes and build on the coalition. People are losing their shit and it's really sad.
Cory Booker Endorses Joe Biden as Candidates Race Toward More Primaries (Published 2020)
Mr. Booker’s endorsement of Mr. Biden came one day after Kamala Harris’s, and a day before primary elections in Michigan, Washington State and elsewhere.
Instead of accepting the loss many are running straight into the arms of alt-right social media and embracing their vile disgusting conspiracy theories instead.
Like, how can someone claim to be left and do that?
Genuinely, more people need to critically and in an unbiased fashion examine the "news" they read. Because I refuse to believe every single person coming in here talking about dementia and changing debate rules because Joe asked and speaking for 7 minutes is doing it on bad faith. I cannot believe that people are so warped as to do that so much, so often, and so shamelessly.
I just read it somewhere - should've checked before posting about it. My bad. Doesn't seem to be true::
Sanders, Biden camps clash over Arizona debate format
A proposal to have the candidates seated for the first time sparks tension.
www.politico.com
They blindly accept anything they see on social media that matches their pre-conceived opinions and are making zero attempt to vet the sourcing to see that it is doctored and heavily edited videos coming from the alt-right to divide Democrats and help Trump.
Sure, that's a big part of it.... But there's also the fact that this is being spread by people from the Sanders campaign itself. That's not really helping.
That is the sad part. They are willingly spreading doctored videos created by the Trump campaign to help elect Donald Trump. It is maddening.
The fact you keep defending the reaction to that innocuous tweet is hilarious. No wonder you're confused why people hate the dirtbag left.
No, it's really not, hence the "unbiased" part. Like, people need to use common sense and ask themselves if something could be true, or likely to be true, or just propaganda. Because every political campaign will be biased, and the Sanders campaign isn't immune to this.
How exactly will Sanders stop the rise of neo-facism in the US where Biden won't? A major factor that helped Trump in 2016 wasn't so much "economic anxiety", but rather a white conservative voter base seeing its cultural power diminish to the point where they felt like they were gonna be the minority soon and placing their hopes in the guy who promised to burn it all down. And despite Trump being in office, those same people still feel like they're losing the culture war. I feel a large part of this lies in factors that aren't directly influenced by who's in the White House meaning neither Sanders nor Biden would be able to do much to stop it.
Why do you think the increased turn-out in the primaries won't translate to increases in the general? Especially how a large part of the increased turnout favored Biden, why would people vote to make him the nominee and then stay home in November?
To be honest, I believe that the "energized" argument is kind of overcredited. The biggest energizer and motivator in the race remains Donald Trump. Most Americans who aren't part of his MAGA base, moderates, independents and liberals alike, friggin' hate him and as unfortunate as it is, hate is often a bigger turn-out booster than any kind of positive message. It's how our brains are hard-wired.
The thing about "energizing" is that it's seldom a one-way street. What energizes a politician's base is also what frequently energizes a politician's critics. This is true for Trump and might be true for Sanders as well. It might partially explain why for all of Sanders' energized following, he got blown out by voters who didn't want him to become the nominee.
User Banned (July 22): Repeatedly violating the Primary OT staff post
Next time you post bullshit like this, please start with "People who vote for Biden want the lesser of two evils". Saves me a lot of time without having to put you on any list, thanks in advance.
Both poll within spitting distance of each-other against Trump.
heh what i said is beingtaken to heart looking at the above posters.
stop othring sanders supporters if you want them to support biden.
I was reading this earlier and I thought it was pretty insightful. I do think that the article places too much value on what the "establishment" wants from a candidate versus what the electorate wants. Like, Jimmy Carter wasn't handpicked by party leaders, there was a primary that he won with a campaign and winning the most Dem voters. And I think the 2016 Republican primary shows that the party leaders can't actually stop a candidate that voters have picked so if a more socialist candidate formed on the Democrat side who had voters' support then they couldn't actually do much. So I'm hesitant to say that it's entirely the democrat leaders that have caused the party to become more centrist as much as it is the electorate changing at the time. And hopefully we're seeing it change again to more leftist policies.Speaking of lessons, as someone who didn't follow the 2016 election and didn't know who McGovern was, I find this look back on the 1972 election to be fascinating:
What Democrats Still Don’t Get About McGovern
The party took all the wrong lessons from his landslide loss to Richard Nixon in '72.
It's also pretty frightening and disheartening. The article was written in 2016, but many parts feel echo 2020 and 1972. It's a pretty long piece, but I suggest everyone read it. A few quotes:
Whoever wins the nom - and it's pretty much guaranteed to be Biden, even if Warren magically endorses Bernie today -, it's gonna be tough. If Biden wins the nom, people should vote for him if they want the lesser of two evils, but I'm not sure the increased turn-out in the Primaries will translate to a GE turn-out that's energized enough to beat Trump's base, especially when some key demographics were overwhelmingly in favor of Sanders (namely the young and Latinx people). Trump, though he's sundowning like Biden, is still the incumbent, with a high approval rating and a perception that the economy is in good shape to boot. And Biden's appeal to decency and dignity and centrist platform might not provide enough contrast to Trump's platform to motivate everyone. It lacks boldness and vision but blindly acts like being dignified is enough to beat the guy who won precisely because he said "screw you" to the rules. It remains to be seen how much coronavirus impacts the race though. It's kind of a wild card. And I wonder how much ground game will matter as well; Biden campaigns more than he did before ST, but it's not like his appearances are long or anything. Then again, Sanders has been busting his ass off on that front from day 1, yet here we are.
They're really rolling them out huh. Let's see how he does tomorrow - even if he loses Michigan, he'll likely run up the score in other states and then we have FL the week following, which I expect won't go too well for Bernie.Cory Booker Endorses Joe Biden as Candidates Race Toward More Primaries (Published 2020)
Mr. Booker’s endorsement of Mr. Biden came one day after Kamala Harris’s, and a day before primary elections in Michigan, Washington State and elsewhere.www.nytimes.com
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