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Aug 12, 2019
5,159
They should be more worried about Biden. They can't do a socialism scare with their war chest if Biden wins.

Trump wants Bernie there because then he can do his protect America from socialism and outside forces bullshit. Will you and others here buy into it? Absolutely not

But the people voting get scared real easily and they will buy into it.

No, they'll pivot to: Dementia scare, cutting Social Security as a scare, Burisma and Hunter Biden as a display of corruption and nepotism, Beto O'Rourke taking their guns as the head of gun policy (This was literally the goddamn stupidest thing Biden could have done with regard to guns), painting Joe Biden as a racist, Joe Biden as a creep around women, and trying to demonstrate that he doesn't stand for anything. The war chest is going to open and they couldn't be more giddy that the nominee is Biden because he is so incredibly easy to exploit in so many categories. All while using the socialism scare with Biden too because they have that infrastructure already built and paid for, they're going to use it.

It doesn't matter how hypocrticial they may be in saying all of that or how little sense it makes, voters are not always logical beings and the one thing the Republican party has down is the barrage of messaging against the Democratic party. Biden has been, and always will be, a super problematic candidate to run. He's currently the frontrunner entirely based on an electability argument and I feel like that's not going to exactly work as well outside the context of the current primary.
 

ostrichKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,468
After such a strong showing from Sanders the Dem Party has gotta come to the left a little bit right? They can't just ignore all the young voters who want more progressive policies.
Biden's platform is already far more left and progressive than Obama's...I know a lot of people keep saying...oh well I don't believe it...but Sanders and Warren have brought the moderates far more left than they were even 4 years ago...
 

Smerdyakov

Member
Nov 13, 2017
380
Before Super Tuesday I could see her endorsing Bernie, now I could see her endorsing Biden or nobody. I'm leaning towards nobody, since that is less "hostile" to progressives and Biden will probably still win anyway.
 

Barzul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,965


Had to triple-check to make sure this wasn't a fake account. What the fuck is this? This is beyond unacceptable.

The fact you have a problem with this shows you still don't know what it takes to beat Trump in November. Your world view is warped by the media you consume. There's a solid 10-15% of Democratic primary voters that voted for Bloomberg that we will need in November and those people should not be alienated because beating Trump is the only thing that matters. Nothing on the national level improves until then. So you leverage and squeeze out every bit of a coalition that you can to achieve this goal. Twitter, ERA etc. are not the real world. Most of the country knows absolutely nothing about what is being discussed on these platforms.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,372
No, they'll pivot to: Dementia scare, cutting Social Security as a scare, Burisma and Hunter Biden as a display of corruption and nepotism, Beto O'Rourke taking their guns as the head of gun policy (This was literally the goddamn stupidest thing Biden could have done with regard to guns), painting Joe Biden as a racist, Joe Biden as a creep around women, and trying to demonstrate that he doesn't stand for anything. The war chest is going to open and they couldn't be more giddy that the nominee is Biden because he is so incredibly easy to exploit in so many categories. All while using the socialism scare with Biden too because they have that infrastructure already built and paid for, they're going to use it.

It doesn't matter how hypocrticial they may be in saying all of that or how little sense it makes, voters are not always logical beings and the one thing the Republican party has down is the barrage of messaging against the Democratic party. Biden has been, and always will be, a super problematic candidate to run. He's currently the frontrunner entirely based on an electability argument and I feel like that's not going to exactly work as well outside the context of the current primary.
You're absolutely delusional that you think they're happy about Biden being the nominee. They got impeached because they were caught trying to create a fake scandal a year in advance of the general election because they were that afraid of Biden being the nominee.
 

MrGiraffe

Member
Feb 27, 2020
478
This thread has become a treasure trove of evidence of just why the Bernie campaign did not and does not take off as much as hoped.

There was a sliver of an opportunity to course-correct after ST and win. Instead, everyone is doubling down and is insisting on the mistake.
I really hope I'm wrong.
 
Oct 27, 2017
936
User Banned (1 Week) : Ignoring the staff post in regards to metacommentary
The Warren -> Biden people here are simultaneously shocking and not surprising at all. You had to be ok with Biden if you were to keep arguing to vote for the person who got Warren'd in her home state
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Before Super Tuesday I could see her endorsing Bernie, now I could see her endorsing Biden or nobody. I'm leaning towards nobody, since that is less "hostile" to progressives and Biden will probably still win anyway.
Yeah I could see her endorsing nobody, which would still be smarter than endorsing Bernie at this juncture.
 
Jun 20, 2019
2,638
The Dem party has hugely shifted leftward over the last decade. Biden will effectively be running on the "default" Dem platform, and it will still be the most liberal platform for a nominee they've ever had.
Describe Biden's platform.
Ohh it's moved left.

In what way is it to the left?
VERY left! The leftistist ever.

In what specific policies?
Simply the most leftist from any Democrat in history!

More left than the Great Society and the War in Poverty?
Those are words I recognize and yes, ohh so extremely left.

So is Biden gonna roll back lifetime limits on welfare aid, bring back state-funded mental facilities, eliminate welfare to work programs? Basically undo the Clinton welfare "reform"?
Left left left lefty left left!
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
Seeing posts about Bernie should ran a better campaign is wild when Biden's campaign was terrible. It was broke and dying and then a few phone calls and negotiations behind the scenes meant his rivals dropped out a few days earlier than they would have and endorsed him and suddenly he's the unstoppable comeback kid who has all but won the race now.

The campaign didn't make a difference, he won states he made no effort to campaign in and instead of going "Bernie should have had a better campaign" people should take it as a lesson in how the establishment wields its power.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,265
After such a strong showing from Sanders the Dem Party has gotta come to the left a little bit right? They can't just ignore all the young voters who want more progressive policies.

The young voters who aren't showing up to vote?

It's interesting looking at exit poll data because new Democratic primary voters... are voting for Biden and not Bernie. Biden won new voters 40-31 over Bernie in Virginia for instance. One would think Bernie would be racking up the voters who are voting for Democrats for the first time but that simply hasn't been the case.

I think Liz backs Bernie. The defeatism from Bernie supporters here is unreal. He's a longshot but hes not drawing dead just yet.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Biden is the likely candidate at this point. Her endorsing Bernie would just further divide voters. It's time to put all the eggs in one basket.

Warren was one of the candidates that more strongly attacked Biden, specially regarding how Biden represents the type of corporativism she's against so much. Does not make sense.

She might not endorse anyone rather than endorsing Biden.
 
Oct 27, 2017
712
I see Biden beating Trump. Bernie has the youth vote, which is useless. Biden can grab "moderate" republicans and never trumpers.
I was so excited for a Bernie presidency though...
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
The fact you have a problem with this shows you still don't know what it takes to beat Trump in November. Your world view is warped by the media you consume. There's a solid 10-15% of Democratic primary voters that voted for Bloomberg that we will need in November and those people should not be alienated because beating Trump is the only thing that matters. Nothing on the national level improves until then. So you leverage and squeeze out every bit of a coalition that you can to achieve this goal. Twitter, ERA etc. are not the real world. Most of the country knows absolutely nothing about what is being discussed on these platforms.

Please don't talk down to me like I can't form cohesive thoughts after "consuming media". Every recording of Bloomberg saying something abhorrent didn't make me even have second-guesses, as I know I have zero interest in supporting someone who treats women and minorities like cattle. Mike Bloomberg is human scum and should be treated as such. He is worthless trash from the get-go. Biden should denounce this immediately and hand-waving this is incredibly disingenuous and disgusting.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Warren was one of the candidates that more strongly attacked Biden, specially regarding how Biden represents the type of corporativism she's against so much. Does not make sense.

She might not endorse anyone rather than endorsing Biden.
Like I posted above, I could also see her endorse nobody.
 

kcp12304

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,974
No, they'll pivot to: Dementia scare, cutting Social Security as a scare, Burisma and Hunter Biden as a display of corruption and nepotism, Beto O'Rourke taking their guns as the head of gun policy (This was literally the goddamn stupidest thing Biden could have done with regard to guns), painting Joe Biden as a racist, Joe Biden as a creep around women, and trying to demonstrate that he doesn't stand for anything. The war chest is going to open and they couldn't be more giddy that the nominee is Biden because he is so incredibly easy to exploit in so many categories. All while using the socialism scare with Biden too because they have that infrastructure already built and paid for, they're going to use it.

It doesn't matter how hypocrticial they may be in saying all of that or how little sense it makes, voters are not always logical beings and the one thing the Republican party has down is the barrage of messaging against the Democratic party. Biden has been, and always will be, a super problematic candidate to run. He's currently the frontrunner entirely based on an electability argument and I feel like that's not going to exactly work as well outside the context of the current primary.

Every candidate is problematic when it comes to the right wing attack machine. It would have been non-stop attacks about Bernie being a commie or Warren's DNA or Pete's sexuality or Amy being an abusive boss. Making an argument about Biden or Bernie being the least electable isn't so clear cut as they both have problems.

D5lJn6QX4AEDj5H
 

Ottaro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,524
I assume that everyone who is totally chill and sees no problem with Biden embracing Bloomberg's endorsement was also totally chill with Bernie embracing Rogan's endorsement considering Bloomberg is an astronomically worse person.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,265
Seeing posts about Bernie should ran a better campaign is wild when Biden's campaign was terrible. It was broke and dying and then a few phone calls and negotiations behind the scenes meant his rivals dropped out a few days earlier than they would have and endorsed him and suddenly he's the unstoppable comeback kid who has all but won the race now.

The campaign didn't make a difference, he won states he made no effort to campaign in and instead of going "Bernie should have had a better campaign" people should take it as a lesson in how the establishment wields its power.

This doesn't mesh with Bernie losing states he won in 16. His support with white working class vanished on ST.

You're right Bernie had -way- more money and had a way better ground game than Biden. And yet his message just didn't resonate at all with voters, even folks who voted for him in 16 bailed on him for Biden.

Like what does it say about Bernie when he was losing states he was heavily competing in to a guy who literally couldn't compete in those states
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,372
Describe Biden's platform.
Ohh it's moved left.

In what way is it to the left?
VERY left! The leftistist ever.

In what specific policies?
Simply the most leftist from any Democrat in history!

More left than the Great Society and the War in Poverty?
Those are words I recognize and yes, ohh so extremely left.

So is Biden gonna roll back lifetime limits on welfare aid, bring back state-funded mental facilities, eliminate welfare to work programs? Basically undo the Clinton welfare "reform"?
Left left left lefty left left!
Ok.
Sitting here earlier today, I was thinking about different candidates positions and I realized of the major candidates from a week ago, I probably knew the least about Biden's supposed positions. That comes in part because he almost never talks about them, focusing a lot more on continuing the legacy of the Obama years instead of what he'll actually do. I decided I should at least know though if he's our guy so I went looking. On just a few of the major issues:

Child Care: Biden is for universal free Pre-K for kids who are 3-4.

Education: Biden is for two free years of community college or technical schooling. He also supports doubling the maximum value of Pell Grants and a student loan forgiveness program which will make it so you don't have to pay anything back on student loans if you are making under 25,000 a year. He also proposes a cap on the maximum amount annually at 5% of your income over 25,000 a year with full forgiveness after 20 years. So if you make 50,000 a year, only 5% of 25,000 is your maximum yearly contribution. That's 1,250 a year. He is also for using federal funds to even out the funding for all schools so that those in higher property tax areas don't receive more resources.

Environment: Ensure the U.S. achieves a 100% clean energy economy and reaches net-zero emissions no later than 2050 . He plans to do this by focusing on wind and solar energy.

Guns: He supports universal background checks, a gun buyback program, and an assault weapon ban.

Immigration: Supports DACA and DAGA path to citizenship. Wants to end workplace raids. Plans to increase worker VISAs. Restore the asylum system and end family separation. End for profit detention centers.

Reparations: Is open to it and has promised to have a committee to look into how this could be applied.

Minimum Wage: Supports a $15.00 an hour minimum wage

Family Leave: Supports 12 weeks of paid family leave

Sick Leave: Supports universal paid sick leave, though details on how much are scarce

Iran: Will rejoin the Iran Nuclear deal

Israel/Palestine: Will support a two state solution

Criminal Justice Reform: Believes nobody should be jailed for drug use alone, wants users to be sent for treatment if anything. Eliminate mandatory minimums. Eliminate the death penalty. Eliminate cash bail. A full end to private prisons. Guaranteed housing for those leaving prison. Supports full restoration of voting rights upon release.

Marijuana: Complete decriminalization and wants to release and expunge the record of anyone in jail for it now. True legalization to be left to the states.

Internet Access: Wants to invest 20 billion in funding to expand rural broadband access.

Statehood: Is for making both Washington DC and Puerto Rico States.

LGBTQ Issues: Supports Gay marriage, the Equality Act, and Transgender military service

Health Care: Ensure a public option is created which covers primary care without co-payments. Make sure those who would qualify for medicaid if their state would only expand coverage are offered premium free coverage on the public option. Plans to offer premium tax credits which will significantly lower costs for those who have insurance they would keep. Make in-network/out of network determined solely by location and not the doctor you see to avoid surprise billing. Repeal the law stopping medicare from negotiating drug prices. Allow consumers to import drugs from out of the country, stopping the current issue where often drugs are far more expensive in the US. Protect abortion rights. Restore federal funding to Planned Parenthood.

Some will argue that many of these are half measures compared to what Bernie wants to do. They're right on many of them. They are measures though. Every single one of them if far more than the Republicans want and we will get under Trump. Even better, these are mostly pretty safe positions to take in the Democratic Party today, thanks in part to Bernie's pushing the party left in recent years. If we can win the senate, these are all actually pretty achievable. And if Biden got half of this done, he'd have far and away the most successful presidency of my lifetime. Bernie first got into the race in 2016 to try to push the party left. He didn't think he could win, he was just trying to get some concessions. That's what winning looked like at the time. Look at that list and tell me he didn't win. Now if you actually care about Bernie's revolution, let's go out in November and get it done. Then once this is the new normal, we can work to push that new normal to the left. The next time someone tells you there's no difference between Trump and Biden, go ahead and show them this.
 

Otakukidd

The cutest v-tuber
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,615
No, they'll pivot to: Dementia scare, cutting Social Security as a scare, Burisma and Hunter Biden as a display of corruption and nepotism, Beto O'Rourke taking their guns as the head of gun policy (This was literally the goddamn stupidest thing Biden could have done with regard to guns), painting Joe Biden as a racist, Joe Biden as a creep around women, and trying to demonstrate that he doesn't stand for anything. The war chest is going to open and they couldn't be more giddy that the nominee is Biden because he is so incredibly easy to exploit in so many categories. All while using the socialism scare with Biden too because they have that infrastructure already built and paid for, they're going to use it.

It doesn't matter how hypocrticial they may be in saying all of that or how little sense it makes, voters are not always logical beings and the one thing the Republican party has down is the barrage of messaging against the Democratic party. Biden has been, and always will be, a super problematic candidate to run. He's currently the frontrunner entirely based on an electability argument and I feel like that's not going to exactly work as well outside the context of the current primary.
You mean all the things that made Trump popular for republicans. I can't see them bringing any of that into it when Trump is on record doing 10 times worse.
 

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
I think Warren needs to endorse Biden. I am not a fan of Biden but unity now going forward and put all resources to destroying the great evil is what the focus needs to be.
 

Codeblue

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,841
What's unacceptable about accepting the help of someone who's single-handedly built and funded the political campaign machinery/apparatus/etc. equivalent of a Death Star when attempting to win an election?

Because it identifies all the grandstanding about morality by Democrats as hypocritical. We'll just bring a man that used his wealth to hurt vulnerable communities into the fold and pretend he's good now that he's no longer on the debate stage.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Seeing posts about Bernie should ran a better campaign is wild when Biden's campaign was terrible. It was broke and dying and then a few phone calls and negotiations behind the scenes meant his rivals dropped out a few days earlier than they would have and endorsed him and suddenly he's the unstoppable comeback kid who has all but won the race now.

The campaign didn't make a difference, he won states he made no effort to campaign in and instead of going "Bernie should have had a better campaign" people should take it as a lesson in how the establishment wields its power.
I mean, that just shows Biden didn't need to run a better campaign to win. Bernie does.

What works for one candidate doesn't mean the same will work for another.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
You're right Bernie had -way- more money and had a way better ground game than Biden. And yet his message just didn't resonate at all with voters, even folks who voted for him 16 bailed on him for Biden.
To be fair a lot of states Bernie won in '16 were because people really hated Hillary. I had a lot of friends canvass and phone bank in '16 and many people didn't care for Bernie but just didn't want Hillary to win. People don't hate Joe that much.
 

schuelma

Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,901
To be fair a lot of states Bernie won in '16 were because people really hated Hillary. I had a lot of friends canvass and phone bank in '16 and many people didn't care for Bernie but just didn't want Hillary to win. People don't hate Joe that much.

yup which is why i think he has a legit shot in november.
 
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