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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,779
The way I see it, getting behind Sanders has the greatest chance for her supporters actually getting some kind of sniff at what they want.

Seen it in my own state where the "progressive" vote couldn't coalesce behind one candidate and ending up handing it over to a billionaire.

Speaking as a progressive, I don't want a sniff. I want change. And if I can't have change - we're not flipping the Senate with Bernie as the nominee - I'd rather have an end to Trumpism as soon as possible so we can try and rebuild the Supreme Court before the next Republican fucks the planet to death for 30+ years.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,112
This.

I'm tired of "fuck boomers" and generational warfare when we can't even get to the damn polls. All the online activity of screaming into the ether about how things have to change and such just feels like a very, very loud and vocal minority that doesn't really have any political power at all.
I don't think the ones screaming on Twitter are the ones not voting, largely. The ones not voting are disengaged from politics entirely.

It's also not helpful to just say "fuck those kids." If a certain demographic is overwhelmingly exhibiting the same behavior, there must be some external reason for it, and it should be addressed if we want to change that behavior.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,014
Maybe people are kind of annoyed that the moderate wing of the party has more solidarity than the left. Maybe people feel betrayed by the fact that the only leftist ally they thought they had decided to stay in the race when she was 100% nonviable instead of dropping out and helping get the only person who supported her agenda elected. She's absolutely going to deserve it when she gets primaried
🐍

bro, by whom?? lmao

Who's running up on three time incumbent Warren in 2024 in a revenge plot from the DSA?
 

Rockets

Member
Sep 12, 2018
3,011
the three major endorsements were: an also ran who people have spent the last several months going "why are you still here?", a guy whose claim to fame was losing to ted cruz and then flopping spectacularly during a presidential bid, and the mayor of a small college town.
Ok let's look at reality: Beto has a lot of rapport with the hispanic community in Texas, a community which is going overwhelmingly for Biden right now in Texas and could very well give him the win by the end of the night. Klob was projected to win Minnesota but her getting out of the race and endorsing Biden gave him the win. Biden even came out and credited Klob for his victory in the last hour. And come on Pete was easily the moderate/centrist favorite before SC so him backing Biden helped out a lot. Make no mistake, its Bernie vs Biden & the establishment
 

supra

Member
Oct 30, 2017
339
Speaking as a progressive, I don't want a sniff. I want change. And if I can't have change - we're not flipping the Senate with Bernie as the nominee - I'd rather have an end to Trumpism as soon as possible so we can try and rebuild the Supreme Court before the next Republican fucks the planet to death for 30+ years.
You ain't gonna flip it with Biden either. And you're getting four more years of Trump.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Which is all well and good. But nonetheless, that being the case, when your running for a party's nomination, and treating that party itself as the enemy and just referring them to the establishment and out to get you and stuff and treating them as a conspiracy... you can't really be shocked when people respond in turn. That's nothing to do with conspiracy, that's nothing to do with establishment, that's people being very very confused when you want the nomination and then insult the people who have the power to give it to you or take it away from you at every turn.

Like I understand that, I get that the US is a two party system. But that being the case, if you're going to run under one of those two parties, you can't constantly be insulting the party your running for every time things don't go your way. That doesn't tend to go over well among the people you literally need to win, and that shouldn't be surprising, that has nothing to do with the "establishment" or anything, but yet...
More barely coherent nonsense. Also wrong. See: Trump and his criticism of the party he was running for and "the establishment" during his campaign. He's president now.

As for the here and now, the "establishment" in this instance strategically dropped out and supported Biden at the 11th hour. It worked. If they had dropped out a week ago and given voters more time to think on it, it may not have, and they knew that. It was done this way to stave off the growing likelihood of a Sanders presidency and a shift in the Democratic Party towards more leftist policy. Because the party will fall in line behind whoever is president. See again: Trump.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,390
Except for his entire fucking history as a politician shows his entire platform (which I've seen and laughed at) is a complete crock of shit
Voters don't care about a politician's history. They only care whether they feel like they like them personally, and will invent a history to suit it.
Voters ignored Trump's lifelong history of lying, cheating, stealing, failure and bigotry, instead they all made up their own imaginary Trump who was for all the things they're for.
 
Apr 19, 2018
3,970
Germany
giphy.gif


Out of 24 candidates, Dems thought this was the best choice. Sad.
 

thoughthaver

Banned
Feb 6, 2020
434
User Banned (1 week): ignoring modpost in regards to hostility
Who is the establishment exactly? I'd figure Sanders was a part of that... considering he himself has been in politics, for decades at this point. So it's clearly nothing like that.

Could it be... other Democrats? But that's strange... I thought Sanders was running for the Democratic Party's nomination for President. To call them establishment is to say Sanders himself isn't a Democrat.

Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that.

But why, then, is he running for the Democratic Party's nomination for President? Is he one, or isn't he?

That's something really annoying about Sanders, his trying to have it both ways like that. The only way that makes sense, considering his own experience in politics, is that here "the establishment" refers to the Democratic Party itself. In which case, why isn't Sanders running as an Independent? You don't get to have it both ways.

He doesn't want to be a Democrat? That's fine. He can go it on his own then.

If he's going to run for the nomination, he and his supporters can shut the fuck up about this stupid nonsense though.

Especially since it implies that voters are basically being mind-controlled and are helpless slaves to this establishment, instead of voting their own way for their own reasons, nothing to do with the "establishment" but because that's legitimately who they wanted to vote for. That ultimately, Biden did a better job, and Sanders failed. And that's on him and nothing else.

And that goes for both the actual votes, who are from people who voted for their own reason, and the endorsements that Biden got from people like Klobuchar. Considering in modern years it's been Sanders who has been Klobuchar's coworker in the Senate, not Biden. They literally work alongside each other. Sanders had every chance at getting her nomination. If he didn't get it (and obviously he didn't), that's ultimately on him for failing to make the better case and Biden doing a better job apparently of earning her nomination. No DNC. No establishment. That's on Bernie for not doing a good enough job to convince her, and Biden for apparently doing otherwise. No matter how you slice it, Sanders had just as much of a chance, he had every resource, every ability to earn those nominations. He didn't. That's on him.

And it's ultimately irrelevant since voters are also their own people and who vote for their own reasons. Biden won them over, Sanders didn't. That's his failure and no one else's.

And on a bit of a side note, it's ironic... Just like a week ago, people were calling Mayor Pete and Klobuchar idiots for not dropping out, idiots for not seeing how they were just splitting the votes and laughing at how stupid they are and how they're just helping Sanders, and yadda yadda yadda.

They actually suddenly realize that themselves, and actually do what people were calling them stupid for not doing in the first place, and suddenly it's all "how dare they" and shock and horror at something they were previously called idiots for not doing. Spare me.
you fuckers make it really hard to not root against you. really, really hard.
 

Mr. RPG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,051
It was Hillary's fault, for sure. She shouldn't have run after being attacked for decades. But I think you're kinda underestimating the effect of not having a dick and decades of attacks stacking up. Biden is beating Bernie in states where he handily beat Hillary.

Of course sexism played a role, but I really doubt it was the deciding factor for costing her tens of thousands of votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

Her campaign thought she had it all wrapped up. It was a terribly run campaign that had no message besides "Trump is worse!".
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
Prove to me that he won based on Republican voters voting in a Democratic primary race.

Look at the turnout. Look at the number of first time voters. Look at where they came from and how those areas break down electorally. Saying Biden is worse at convincing independents and former republicans to vote democrat than Bernie Sanders is contradicted by literally every attempt we have at quantifying these numbers. You're just wrong. And besides that, you didn't provide anything to support the initial claim that Bernie was better at it. The results tonight, and the general result of higher turnout being worse for Bernie, does not support your thesis.
 

Pasha

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
3,018
So a question to all the moderates/centrists here who feel that Bidens victory is assured.
How convinced are you that the medias love affair with Biden will continue throughout the GE?
How convinced are you that the media will not revert back to 2016 levels of Trump coverage and give him billions of dollars in free media?
How convinced are you that the Burisma story will not be Email 2.0?
I'm genuinely curious.
 

LilWayneSuckz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,820
Vote or shut the fuck up, quite frankly. I'm fucking tired of the excuses.

I can't believe this is what they are going with as a reason for Bernie losing to Biden in certain states...

Older people vote, if you want the change you seek that the older block does not care about, vote...not just for presidential primaries, but state and local elections as well.
 

eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
Look at the turnout. Look at the number of first time voters. Look at where they came from and how those areas break down electorally. Saying Biden is worse at convincing independents and former republicans to vote democrat than Bernie Sanders is contradicted by literally every attempt we have at quantifying these numbers. You're just wrong. And besides that, you didn't provide anything to support the initial claim that Bernie was better at it. The results tonight, and the general result of higher turnout being worse for Bernie, does not support your thesis.
yup he won the same voters that handed the state to dems in 2018.
 

ody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,116
#BlameEveryoneButBernie

I hope the more passionate supporters are asking why his message didn't resonate. I doubt it's the policies since some are popular, according to polls.
 

JetBlackPanda

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,505
Echo Base
So a question to all the moderates/centrists here who feel that Bidens victory is assured.
How convinced are you that the medias love affair with Biden will continue throughout the GE?
How convinced are you that the media will not revert back to 2016 levels of Trump coverage and give him billions of dollars in free media?
How convinced are you that the Burisma story will not be Email 2.0?
I'm genuinely curious.

none of that fucking matters. Sanders lost.

if Biden wins more delegates he wins
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,041
So realistically, assuming Biden also wins Texas, & comes out with the lead after tonight. What's the pathway for Bernie going forward? He's losing black voters by over 40 points to Biden, is losing the suburbs, no massive youth turnout, & the news cycle going into next Tuesday will be overwhelmingly pro-Biden.

Just doesn't seem like he'll make significant inroads anywhere here

Kinda need to go on chaos theory. There's no clear path to the nomination for Sanders as there was 4+ days ago, but likewise, no candidate getting a majority is still pretty likely (need to see 538's projections tomorrow to get the data better).

The chaos of it though is that 4 days ago, everybody in America thought Biden was dead. Sanders crushed Nevada, he was polling in double digits leads all over Super Tuesday, Biden had a not remarkable debate performance. South Carolina happens and Biden does better than expected, Buttigieg and Klobuchar worse than expected, both drop out and fall behind Biden, and that momentum carries him into Super Tuesday, while Bloomberg under performs, and Sanders tanks.

Kinda need unexpected things to happen. If Warren pulls out of the race and Bloomberg hangs in, Sanders probably makes slow and steady gains while Biden plateaus, and then you take it to the convention.
 

Deleted member 9197

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
660
More barely coherent nonsense. Also wrong. See: Trump and his criticism of the party he was running for and "the establishment" during his campaign. He's president now.

As for the here and now, the "establishment" in this instance strategically dropped out and supported Biden at the 11th hour. It worked. If they had dropped out a week ago and given voters more time to think on it, it may not have, and they knew that. It was done this way to stave off the growing likelihood of a Sanders presidency and a shift in the Democratic Party towards more leftist policy.

Noooooo, these candidates clearly made private, independent decisions based on their own past performance and future polling data with no outside influence whatsoever. In fact, they're so high minded as to probably not have thought twice about Senator Sanders when making their decisions. They were patriots, doing what they felt was best for the country. Conveniently within 24 hours of one another.
 

ostrichKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,468
Not talking about vote meddling.

And there are no real indications that votes were meddled with in '16 or '18 either. But if you think there isn't a lot of money being thrown at us to game how we view these people and convince Americans to vote against their own interests by supporting another moderate stooge, you're crazy. I'm just curious what the excuse will be this time when Trump wins against Biden. Chinese hacking? A coalition of hillbilly computer whizzes swinging the vote in an effort to reinstate slavery?

My point is that the coordination in having the two strongest non-progressive candidates drop and endorse Biden back to back right before Super Tuesday is suspicious at best.
You may call it suspicious...some may call it politically calculated...there is no behind closed doors conspiracy...Amy and Pete saw they were not going to win and preferred the person closest to them in platform in the race so they dropped out to narrow the race and help build a more singular more moderate vote...many thought they should drop even earlier. Fact of the matter is and has been proven tonight...Bernie didn't have a broad enough coalition to beat a narrowed down field...his best chance was always going to be if a field of "moderates" failed to narrow down and coalesce early enough...
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Of course sexism played a role, but I really doubt it was the deciding factor for costing her tens of thousands of votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

Her campaign thought she had it all wrapped up. It was a terribly run campaign that had no message besides "Trump is worse!".
It was a terribly run campaign and message. And let me be clear: Biden is a fucking weak ass candidate. But I still think you're underestimating the effect of not having a dick had for Hillary. Voters are dense.

Again, Biden is actually winning nonvoters that are coming into the process in a high turn-out environment. What did he do to earn them? Exist, apparently.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,220
Like in AOCs documentary, for one of these progressives to make it a hundred of them have to try. Just gotta keep trying. Easy to feel dejected now but you gotta keep going.
 

Deleted member 35740

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 9, 2017
262
That's one way to make sure Republicans never lose another election.
And yet it's the only way to give leftists a real chance to lead the country. Tired of having our views silenced within the Democratic Party. Let's be real, the DNC does not represent our views and if the constant reasoning to shush us down it's because "the other guys are worse" then I legitimately think this country is going nowhere. Frankly, I feel like a proper leftist party would do wonders for democratic representation on the US.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,257
I know all you Bernie supporters are upset right now, but we need you in November. Don't forget the real threat.

The status quo is Trump and the GOP.
Eh... I'll vote for the nominee regardless, and I guess it's gonna be fucking Mr "Nothing Will Change" because of course it will.

But Trump is going to crush the hell out of Biden. We are 100% losing this. And that's probably why I'll just kill myself come November because why even bother anymore.
 

Zornack

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,134
Noooooo, these candidates clearly made private, independent decisions based on their own past performance and future polling data with no outside influence whatsoever. In fact, they're so high minded as to probably not have thought twice about Senator Sanders when making their decisions. They were patriots, doing what they felt was best for the country. Conveniently within 24 hours of one another.

If Bernie is such a strong candidate why can he only win when the moderate vote is split 4 ways?

Bloomberg is still in and is siphoning more from Biden than Warren is from Bernie.
 

Proven

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,841


If your only source of information was this thread you would have thought Sanders had 25 Delegates.
 

ostrichKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,468
Noooooo, these candidates clearly made private, independent decisions based on their own past performance and future polling data with no outside influence whatsoever. In fact, they're so high minded as to probably not have thought twice about Senator Sanders when making their decisions. They were patriots, doing what they felt was best for the country. Conveniently within 24 hours of one another.
Of course they thought about Sanders..And didn't want him to win. They wanted someone more similar to him. So what? What exactly are you trying to suggest?
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,047
This is the truth. Progressives are a too big a threat.
Literal repeat.
Unless Bernie gets some sort of VP/Cabinet spot Biden is fucking doomed. Trump won with zero policies, racism, and 5 star comedy show dunks with zero tact and banked it to the White House.

White women--college educated or otherwise will always choose white supremacy over actual social change and progress that doesnt center around them. (The parasocial fanaticism likening Warren to Hermoine and Bernie to their abusive male relationships.)

Youth voters will continue to be a meme block only good for Twitter clout engagement and hashtag boosts and Republicans that would of voted for Bernie if he didnt 'get cheated' will go Trump.

And we have a repeat of 2016. Whether Bernie wins or not there needs to be a serious discussion AND IMPLEMENTATION about socialist policies because if the DMC can't address a losing candidate fans continue to spoil the entire democratic ticket twice in a row than they are a lame fucking duck.

I couldnt give a shit about Warren supporters feeling 'sad' about the hostility and staying home. GoFundMe pages out the ass with desperate, dying people trying to buy Insulin costing $500+ monthly while your out here doing Harry Potter memes and feminism takes.

Joe isnt going to fix that. His records proves it. Staffers can type whatever bullshit they want on a bullet list and post online. Once Wells Fargos million dollar checks come in its in the trash.
 
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