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May 26, 2018
24,020
Fuck it. If Biden becomes the nomination, I hope Trump wins. Perhaps at the end of next 4 years, whatever "status quo" would be perceived as then as the overton window would inevitably slide further right, won't be good enough. Perhaps enough people need to go to medical bankruptcy so that we don't have old pieces of putrid meat telling young people about "choices" in medical insurance.

Empathy, fucking empathy is the ultimate teacher and once americans are again put through the fucking ringer of right wing gaslighting, bigotry, white nationalism, destruction of ecosystems, anti-science domination, pro-life dominance etc, perhaps then americans will tear down the degenerate DNC and their "status quo".

Fuck DNC, Fuck Trump, Fuck racist, bigoted moderates.

Dude, talking about empathy in the same breath as you talk about old folks going into medical bankruptcy and dying so the young can take over. That ain't empathy. That's vengeance.

I can only ask you to think about the meaning of empathy and what value it has if it is selective.
 

Rran

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,517
Yep. It's bizarre to see people's pettiness at such extreme levels that they'd they'd rather stomp their feet and pout rather than stop Trump.

I'm sure the kids in cages and LGBTQ folks who are more at risk than ever will feel great about such righteous decisions.
While I don't prescribe to that particular course of action, I can sorta understand why they may feel it's not necessarily unwarranted. On its surface, you could just label these people "selfish" (and, sure, there is that to a degree), but I don't want to be reductive about these things, because that'll just get us nowhere. I imagine the people sitting out this election (assuming due to hypothetical contested convention shenanigans) would be doing so for sorta-somewhat-kinda-almost-quasi-similar reasons that many young, minority and low-income citizens tend to not vote: they're disillusioned w/ a system that doesn't seem to want to cater to their interests. Granted, their behavior come election day might skew a little closer towards petty lane--but, at the same time, a person's vote shouldn't just be expected (and truthfully, I would like to see some ramification for the DNC's actions, but I struggle thinking of what). Then again... f'n Donald Trump is commander-in-chief o_0

man, i dont know why i just typed all this shit out. i need to study. fuck.
 

airbagged_

Member
Jan 21, 2019
5,649
Charleston, SC
Training Video




Quick Start guide

Sample Script

Get started here
berniesanders.com

Make Calls for Bernie Now!

Make calls to voters from home to help grow our grassroots movement and win! Can you hop on the phones to make sure Bernie wins this election?

Here's all you need to get started. I know that it's scary to reach out to people like this with cold calls, but it's fun and easy once you actually get in there. This is how we win and we need to do this TODAY. If you've been waiting around to get involved NOW IS THE TIME.

Do what you can now or you'll regret it later. Good luck and happy calling!


Been doing this and it's SUUUPER easy. Don't be afraid. One to two calls in and it's pretty much EZ mode.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,301
Why is Warren not conceding? 🤔

She's in great position to pick up delegates now. If she's not in this to win this, its because she wants to take it all the way to the convention. Some folks think this means shes trying to backdoor deal her way into the nomination but it could just be like what Bernie did last year and use her delegates as a bargaining chip to get various things.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,141
Warren doesn't see all the bickering, she has one goal in mind and she knows she is viable in multiple states. Her focus has been this way for a year, stopping a campaign is extremely hard until you just have no financial means anymore.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I'm confused about your position here. Do you not believe Pete and Amy's actions represent a coordinated effort to rally around Biden? They both just happened to do this between SC and Super Tuesday?

For the record I don't believe this constitutes a grand conspiracy or diabolical corruption. It's just the party doing what people have been telling them to do and coalescing around a Bernie challenger.
The part where this requires any intervention from "the party" at all.

Pete had no path forward. It's looking like Amy will lose her home state. Both of them had very good reasons to decide for themselves to drop out when they did, while they both have some dignity. And in doing so, they are endorsing the candidate closes to them ideologically. Just like Bernie supporters want Liz to do.

Like, none of that needs anyone applying outside pressure to make logical sense. Stories exactly like those are repeated every single primary. This is normal. No one had to make or pressure anyone to do anything.

Why are we supposed to feel differently about these actions in this primary than how we feel when this happens every other four years?
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
The last two are the God's honest truth though
People like their doctor, how near an urgent care is, whether you have dental, how low cost your insurance is, etc... all things kept with medicare for all. So when saying people like their insurance, you're implying that they would lose everything they love about their insurance, which is false.

Single payer healthcare is possible. It's been done in other countries. It is no more pie in the sky than the public option which the Republicans will fight with all their lives, and where moderates will be moderate and not side with the most left position (in this case being the public option). The insurance donors are on Biden's side in this primary, but should Biden be the nominee they will jump ship to the more right politician because they're going to be looking out for themselves (their money).
 

Goodstyle

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,661
Periodic reminder:

1. Biden doesn't have a turnout machine in the Super Tuesday states. Maybe Bernie isn't bringing as many new voters as he needs, but Biden's organization is reportedly terrible.

2. Bloomberg has way better organizing and is taking votes directly from Biden.

Remember these 2 things, and phonebank/canvass if you want to calm down.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
Pokémon GO find the nearest polling station with all polling stations having a shiny legendary encounter


FQCpFtp.png
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I'm not ignoring that, I just believe slightly more in what I wrote based on the timing. It's not a big deal and shouldn't stress anyone out. it's literally nothing.
Pete was gonna get killed on ST, and Amy will probably lose her home state.

It's totally logical for them both to bow out when they did.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
Weren't we saying the same thing in 2016?

I don't remember?

Trump had more to win and less to lose in 2016, though. Now he's got much more to lose. If Trump played sour grapes in 2016 and refused to debate Clinton, being an outsider it would have looked much worse for him, than if he does now. His base will let him get away with anything now, hell they gave him a rubber stamp on using tax payer money to have foreign countries announce investigations into his political rivals, and I don'tt hink he had that clear mandate from the rest of the GOP in 2016 that he has today.
 

Suiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,931
You could label that at moderates when they say things like "Bernie! How could you praise Castro" or "People like their insurance" or "single payer health care isn't possible."

One of those three statements is not like the other.

Bernie praising Castro is/was stupid. It's likely to help make him nonviable in FL, and could cost him the primary.
'People like their insurance' is a statement that many agree with, ignoring that makes your job of trying to implement single payer that much more difficult.

Lastly, it should be be single payer health care is very difficult. It's not impossible.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,112
The part where this requires any intervention from "the party" at all.

Pete had no path forward. It's looking like Amy will lose her home state. Both of them had very good reasons to decide for themselves to drop out when they did, while they both have some dignity. And in doing so, they are endorsing the candidate closes to them ideologically. Just like Bernie supporters want Liz to do.

Like, none of that needs anyone applying outside pressure to make logical sense. Stories exactly like those are repeated every single primary. This is normal. No one had to make or pressure anyone to do anything.

Why are we supposed to feel differently about these actions in this primary than how we feel when this happens every other four years?
Previous elections didn't have a party outsider with a very real threat of snagging the nomination from a crowded field. And 2016 gives us a model of how that can happen when the party as a whole does nothing to stop it.

Like, I don't think anybody is putting a gun to Pete and Amy's heads but it's not hard to imagine conversations and deal-making are occurring behind the scenes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,277
I'm confused about your position here. Do you not believe Pete and Amy's actions represent a coordinated effort to rally around Biden? They both just happened to do this between SC and Super Tuesday?

For the record I don't believe this constitutes a grand conspiracy or diabolical corruption. It's just the party doing what people have been telling them to do and coalescing around a Bernie challenger.

They both happened to drop out right before the race gets incredibly expensive and right after they would have gotten polling that strongly predicts their Super Tuesday performance. It's not an attempt at rallying around a candidate, it's a sign that the rallying has already happened amongst donors and voters. That forced their hands.
 

electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
People like their doctor, how near an urgent care is, whether you have dental, how low cost your insurance is, etc... all things kept with medicare for all. So when saying people like their insurance, you're implying that they would lose everything they love about their insurance, which is false.

I'm just saying it would be a hurdle for the M4A folks to deal with as people tend to rate their own health plan highly for some reason I don't understand (maybe because they mostly don't use it?)

Single payer healthcare is possible. It's been done in other countries. It is no more pie in the sky than the public option which the Republicans will fight with all their lives, and where moderates will be moderate and not side with the most left position (in this case being the public option).

I think Single Payer will happen at some point, I hope it does. I don't see a path for either the public option or M4A in the next 4 years without a historic wave election
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
That was GAF, and yes it was infested with centrist assholes and unbearable "yasss queen" Hillary-stans.

To a degree I can understand being frustrated with Bernie in 2016 -- maybe it seemed like he was Jill Stein or something if you were into Hillary.

In 2020? You get a fucking sideye.
That's a gross misrepresentation of things. Reminder that Bernie handily won the OT poll in 2016 on that site.
 

TheLucasLite

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,446
Pete was gonna get killed on ST, and Amy will probably lose her home state.

It's totally logical for them both to bow out when they did.
If that's your logic, then why didn't either of them drop out before SC then? It's not like either of them were going to do well there either. The timing being strategic makes complete sense.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
If Trump thinks he has more to lose by talking, that sure as fuck hasn't been demonstrated since... forever?

Yeah, talking at rallies, on twitter, and on Fox News, where he's surrounded by fawning, adoring fans. I can't remember the last time he gave an interview or prepared press conference to objective reporters.

This isn't an outsider perspective on Trump debating, he's said himself he's not sure if he will:

www.nytimes.com

Will Trump Debate a Democrat in 2020? He’s Not So Sure. (Published 2019)

The president’s concern is not so much whom he will be debating but the commission that runs the debates.

www.nytimes.com

Trump May Skip Debates, or Seek New Host, if Process Isn’t ‘Fair’ (Published 2020)

The nonprofit Commission on Presidential Debates has sponsored every general election debate since 1988, but the Trump campaign has raised concerns about its 2020 events.

President Trump is discussing with his advisers the possibility of sitting out the general election debates in 2020 because of his misgivings about the commission that oversees them, according to two people familiar with the discussions.

Mr. Trump has told advisers that he does not trust the Commission on Presidential Debates, the nonprofit entity that sponsors the debates, the two people said.

It seems very unlikely that we'd get three debates this time around unlike 2016, 2012, 2008, etc. I could see Trump hemming and hawing about not having time, or unfair debate moderates, or something, and maybe agreeing to one debate at the most.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Previous elections didn't have a party outsider with a very real threat of snagging the nomination from a crowded field. And 2016 gives us a model of how that can happen when the party as a whole does nothing to stop it.

Like, I don't think anybody is putting a gun to Pete and Amy's heads but it's not hard to imagine conversations and deal-making are occurring behind the scenes.
But that's just guessing and building theories out of those guesses, when the simplest answer is most likely to be the correct one.

When we start assuming nefarious intent to explain actions that are completely rational and logical on their own, we're just injecting our own biases.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
That was GAF, and yes it was infested with centrist assholes and unbearable "yasss queen" Hillary-stans.

To a degree I can understand being frustrated with Bernie in 2016 -- maybe it seemed like he was Jill Stein or something if you were into Hillary.

In 2020? You get a fucking sideye.

Hilarious you trying to pretend Bernie folks were presuected on GAF when there were hundreds of pages of threads quoting Project Vertias conspiarcy therories about Hillary and being cheered about.
 

Prodigal Son

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,791
Any tips on getting over the anxiety?
for me its just the necessity of it. and know that half of the time you're just calling people that aren't home or hang up when they find out its a political call. the reality of how easy it is takes over the nerves quick

it kinda feels like omegle or chat-roulette if anyone ever used that
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,975
Yep. It's bizarre to see people's pettiness at such extreme levels that they'd they'd rather stomp their feet and pout rather than stop Trump.

I'm sure the kids in cages and LGBTQ folks who are more at risk than ever will feel great about such righteous decisions.
Pettiness? Or apathy?

Whichever way you look at it, if millions of people are going to stay at home as a result of the candidate your party nominates... maybe the party is somewhat responsible for ultimately losing? And not the millions of people...

Just a thought.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
One of those three statements is not like the other.

Bernie praising Castro is/was stupid. It's likely to help make him nonviable in FL, and could cost him the primary.
'People like their insurance' is a statement that many agree with, ignoring that makes your job of trying to implement single payer that much more difficult.

Lastly, it should be be single payer health care is very difficult. It's not impossible.
Anything to the left of Republicans will be hard, and anything to the left of this particular overton window (health insurance debate) will be hard to pass. Insurance companies are fighting against single payer at this moment because the public option keeps their wealth in tact more so than single payer. When the debate becomes public option vs Republicans, they will abandon public option because one option keeps their wealth better. Moderate is dependent on republicans so there is no reason to believe public option is more passable just because the overton window was shifted right.

Bernie praising Castro can be seen as a legitimate lack of strategy. That's fair game. What isn't fair game is attacking him using Republican talking points. You're doing the job of the Republicans. That's nothing to do with strategy. If those same Democrats did not show fake disgust, then it would project to voters that it isn't a big deal. You can't claim strategy, when your (not you specifically) attack isn't based on concern for winning that demographic.
 
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