Alright opposites is strong but I'm firmly anti Biden until have to be for him.
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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As incredibly incompetant as democratic leadership is, I don't think a brokered convention will happen.
If I'm wrong tho, and they give the nomination to anyone besides Bernie or Biden, Trump will be reelected. No question, no doubt. No one else in the race even has the beginning of a coalition.
If I'm wrong tho, and they give the nomination to anyone besides Bernie or Biden, Trump will be reelected. No question, no doubt. No one else in the race even has the beginning of a coalition.
I think that the current bernie support outpouring against Warren is a combination of her going against him in her last speech and the fact that her endgame plan is absolute nonsense but also an emotional reaction because of how the biden win could change the race
I don't think Biden can survive the backlash if he is given the nom despite not having at least a plurality.
That sort of backlash would put "Bernie or Bust" to shame.
Bernie is the front runner. Why would she focus her energy on someone not the front runner?
After Bernie I feel the best about Biden and Warren. The rest are all noise honestly .
Shit a Biden/Bernie ticket if they were both 5-10 years younger would have DESTROYED. I know Joe may not be as progressive as Bernie but he still seems to be a genuine candidate and he believes in the policies he's proposing. I don't think he's mentally not there, but I think he's just not as sharp as he once was. But once in a while you see that spark and passion in him. Bernie is always 100% on his message all the time and just seems more "with it" compared to Joe, even though he's older.
As for Warren, her policies are great, she would make a great President, but I don't know what her campaign has been doing recently. Just complete mismanagement at a grand level combined with sexism has led to this poor showing and it's a shame. But I'd still happily vote for her over the rest of the options. Buttigieg needs to find things he actually believes in and he would be a much better politician. Klobuchar is just here to pat herself on the back. Bloomberg needs to be taken down come convention time.
Shit a Biden/Bernie ticket if they were both 5-10 years younger would have DESTROYED. I know Joe may not be as progressive as Bernie but he still seems to be a genuine candidate and he believes in the policies he's proposing. I don't think he's mentally not there, but I think he's just not as sharp as he once was. But once in a while you see that spark and passion in him. Bernie is always 100% on his message all the time and just seems more "with it" compared to Joe, even though he's older.
As for Warren, her policies are great, she would make a great President, but I don't know what her campaign has been doing recently. Just complete mismanagement at a grand level combined with sexism has led to this poor showing and it's a shame. But I'd still happily vote for her over the rest of the options. Buttigieg needs to find things he actually believes in and he would be a much better politician. Klobuchar is just here to pat herself on the back. Bloomberg needs to be taken down come convention time.
Because she's no longer playing to win outright (or even get near a plurality) and Bernie is not favored at this point to win an outright majority.
Again, she has no shot at being the nominee. She's hasn't come close to winning a state, her numbers have tanked, and it looks like she won't even win her home state. Attacking the only other progressive in the race at this point is not a good look. Maybe this is one last play to get a boost on ST, but if she doesn't win anything and stays in the race to attack Bernie... Then yea, I dunno what she's thinking.
Right now:
-Warren is still my preferred candidate but I've basically accepted that, barring a miracle, its not going to be her
-I'm behind Bernie at this point, if only because his momentum does seem to be real and if he wins it, he wins it. I'd like to see what a Sanders presidency could do, but I am worried about performance in the general
-In November I've resigned myself to voting for Biden if I have to. I still think things he's said are really offputting and concerning, but if he wins I'm hoping he's toothless enough in practice that the rest of the party can just use his position in the white house to govern
-I have no real idea how I feel about Buttigieg. I don't like him, I'd vote for him but I wouldn't feel good about it. Right now that's not likely to be a problem.
-Fuck Bloomberg. If its Bloomberg I might honestly just vote for the downballot
-Warren is still my preferred candidate but I've basically accepted that, barring a miracle, its not going to be her
-I'm behind Bernie at this point, if only because his momentum does seem to be real and if he wins it, he wins it. I'd like to see what a Sanders presidency could do, but I am worried about performance in the general
-In November I've resigned myself to voting for Biden if I have to. I still think things he's said are really offputting and concerning, but if he wins I'm hoping he's toothless enough in practice that the rest of the party can just use his position in the white house to govern
-I have no real idea how I feel about Buttigieg. I don't like him, I'd vote for him but I wouldn't feel good about it. Right now that's not likely to be a problem.
-Fuck Bloomberg. If its Bloomberg I might honestly just vote for the downballot
She wont be the nominee.
At this point, her sole purpose in this race is to lie about and weaken Bernie. That is pretty wild for someone who is just as progressive as Bernie, do not you think?
If Warren gets the nomination without having won a single state, which is looking increasingly likely, then she's already lost no matter how someone tries to frame it. And that goes for any of the candidates trying to get the nomination from a brokered convention. If you haven't won a state or you have only won a single state to the other frontrunner's respective 10 or 20+ wins and you're woefully trailing in delegates, why would you ever be the candidate to try to walk out with that nomination? Like, that's not just going to cost a ton in the general, but you're also looking at destroying your own political career to walk out with the true nomination. A forced Vice Presidential pick? That's at least more reasonable, but saying that Bernie and Joe have a combined 60-70% of the vote, we're going to split the difference and pick a Warren, a Klobuchar, a Bloomberg, or a Buttigieg stands to just rip about the Democratic electorate and leave an extremely narrow margin of people while also committing the mistake of thinking people entirely vote along ideological lines and not for specific candidates quite frequently.
Like, your campaign is your campaign to run, but if you're not winning anything and playing for the contested convention, you're playing an extremely dangerous, and IMO, an extremely dumb game.
Ehhh... not really? I don't see how you get that read on things, like, last night I'm willing to agree was at least the first time he acted like a candidate in a critically important race, but the idea of his debate performances being more energized doesn't really resonate. They were just improved because he went from catastrophically bad for several months in a row to just OK. Again, that's not making much of a case for him as the nominee. Like does one halfway decent speech and two not train wrecks of a debate really make a candidate that much more appealing or indicative of him as a leader when he's literally done fuck all for organization in the rest of the primary, and there are months demonstrating him failing to have any sort of energy or spark even when he was the pronounced frontrunner by all the media when this thing started?
If you ignore all the other polls showing Bernie is doing much better with minorities, including black voters, than in 2016 sure
Why do people keep acting like we didn't know Biden put everything he had in South Carolina? That it was his firewall and was expected to win it handily? These "Bernie should be scared/ His coalition isn't as broad as he thought" jabs seem a little early.
I know it's up to the States and not the party but I wish the more diverse States went first. Like, if we need it to be Biden, it is what it is, would have been nice of him to have a strong start instead of flailing at the beginning. I wish there was more flexibility and each party's more important States could go first, and we could revisit that order every couple of elections, instead of basically always following the same order.
I don't know why people keep insisting this. Even if she can't win the nomination, the more delegates she earns the greater the impact she can have on the Democratic platform.
She has every right to continue the race, and her supporters deserve the right to cast their votes for her.
And we just had a tweet yesterday showing that polling in SC typically drastically underrepresents how much the leader is going to win by.
I do not think that because she doesn't have to throw her support behind Bernie or anyone else just because you or I may want her to. If she believes she is the best person for the job then so be it.
In fairness, most people didn't think Bernie would be blown out in SC, not by the margin. Bernie is polling similar in Georgia. Biden is going to take the Deep South and likely Florida. I hope Bernie can make up in Texas, California and New England/rust belt. Warren is a spoiler and there's the real possibility Pete and Klobuchar will bail after Super Tuesday which will bolster Biden. If Bernie misses the nomination, you can thank desperate Liz "make ME vp " Warren.
At this point, I do not know any Sanders-supporter who expects Warren to support Bernie, it is very clear that she has no intention of doing so. To Matt: yeah, she can continue to run, and we are free to write observations about her actions. She is not pushing any policy at this point, because she has no path to the nomination. Yeah, if there is a brokered convention, she can have weight, sure, but at that point, if Bernie is the clear frontrunner and is denied of a nomination, pushing policy will be the least of the democratic party's worries.
Lets also not act like a 20% from Bernie in SC is a particularly bad outcome either. He kept the lead, albeit a small one.
If Bernie isn't the nominee, it's because not enough people voted for him.
He isn't owed anything, Warren has just as much right to compete as he does.
It's as if this place forgot how toxic Bernie haters were just a few months ago and how they were asking Bernie to drop out of the race based on post debate pollings and nothing else.
We are saying if she wants to push the progressive agenda as much as possible after even Warren supporters here are stating she doesn't have a path to victory, then it would make sense for her to drop out and throw her support to the progressive candidate that happens to be the front runner.
Biden and Bloomberg are 2nd and 3rd and is in no way analogous.
I would be if Bernie were also doing this without winning any states and telegraphing that he's in this for himself. Bernie tried to get Warren to run for VP and it's documented that he wanted to basically make her the Dick Cheney of VP's as far as banking and the financial sector go. She would have likely been the second most powerful vice president in US history. In all this time even at their friendliest I've never seen such a feeling reciprocated from Warren which was fine by me. I'm also more sad than angry at Warren's current state of affairs. I'm not going to call for her to drop out, but watching her just makes me a little sad.
Yeah, but he was still projected to win by potentially a lot. People were already warning that polls for SC always mess up the 65+ black vote so expect higher numbers. It's not that Biden flipped it around or anything. Bernie getting 20% is about what I expected even though I hoped it'd be a lot closer. People who are for Biden should be more concerned that he's put nothing into any ST states and will probably be riding only on this result. On top of that, there's no Rep Clyburn to save his ass in any other state on ST.
Good fucking grief.
How do you square believing that with Biden having the highest African American support by far?
Tribalism is awful and I'm disgusted that it's taking over the left almost as much as it took over the right. This isn't sports.
When is the next debate? Wonder if it will build or stifle the momentum for Sanders and/or Biden.
Also a factor against Biden at the moment as as much as Warren is playing spoiler for Sanders (seemingly) Bloomberg might be doing the same for Biden.
I forget how mentally draining this all is
Also a factor against Biden at the moment as as much as Warren is playing spoiler for Sanders (seemingly) Bloomberg might be doing the same for Biden.
I forget how mentally draining this all is
It's moreso the glaring hypocrisy after a year of Warren folks insisting they were actually very similar candidates, that they're together in the fight against the moderates, that supporters of one should support the other, only for Warren to turn around in the wake of HORRIBLE early state performances and adopt basically the same "only I can fix things" savior complex Bernie has been accused of.
I was laughed at and called a conspiracy theorist for saying that Warren clearly does not like Bernie and has bought into the narrative that he is a do-nothing, mediocre white guy sucking all the oxygen away from her, an accomplished and effectual woman, but I cannot think of another explanation for why she wouldn't put her weight behind the likeliest torch-bearer for her supposedly progressive ideals. Either she doesn't actually care about the ideals and was just running in the Left-ish lane to try and snooker progressive voters, or she's a bit of a narcissist and thinks she's the only possible vehicle for those ideals seeing fruition. Either way, that's not a very admirable suite of traits for an ostensibly Left-wing politician.
I never said that, I said polling with black voters isn't good, and that Bernie's support in that group isn't as good as polls are showing. As evidenced by him getting blown out yesterday.
Next debate is March 15th. Super Tuesday is so close there probably won't be any other momentum builder between now and then.
You know how else she can push a progressive agenda? By staying in the race.
Okay, so it might be Old Man Joe. I'd vote for him. Wanna know who won't? Scorned Bernie supporters if the DNC goes the route of denying him the nomination via a brokered convention. Because of this, I almost wish Joe would win the delegate count and therefore the sting would lessen for Sanders supporters. We need every blue vote!
It's one state that has a history of underpolling older black voters...
Maybe she thinks he is a bad general election candidate. Which isn't a crazy take.
He's leading in Texas polls by a few points, but is expecting a blowout in CA, which hopefully doesn't change over the next 2 days. If those numbers hold, SC will be a blip immediately forgotten.
I think this was more of a South Carolina specific thing, since apparently there's a constant underpolling problem there. But again, we know that the polls showed the race tightening until about a week before the vote, and at that point Biden's numbers started skyrocketing. Likely a combo of moderate undecideds flocking to him to stop Bernie after Nevada + the Clyburn endorsement.
Not to mention the implication that she... is a good general election candidate? You'd think after the fourth contest of her placing below Buttigieg and the second in a diverse state, the third she wasn't even viable in...
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