It should add around 2.5 miliseconds to each frame on a 2060, or about 1.4ms on a 2080ti, per the rough estimates given by Nvidia.
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Death Stranding will support DLSS 2.0 on PC
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
It should add around 2.5 miliseconds to each frame on a 2060, or about 1.4ms on a 2080ti, per the rough estimates given by Nvidia.
Do we know if this is more or less a fixed cost? Would DLSS (assuming it was implemented) on like, CSGO take the same amount of time per frame as DLSS on a much more demanding game like RDR2?
It should be a fixed cost as it does not have to do with scene complexity, just the amount of pixels AFAIK.
I see, thanks for the detailed explanation, so I take this is mostly if you are having performance troubles with all the bells and whistles on at your resolution of choice
Here's the slide they showed:
My memory was slightly off. 2060 Super was 2.55ms, and 2080ti was 1.5ms (for 4k output image).
So if you were using a 2060 Super to generate a 4k image from 1080p, and you were getting precisely 60fps (for argument's sake), that would be 16.67ms + 2.55ms = 19.22ms = 52 fps for the DLSS based supersampling.
I wouldn't expect this to be a totally ironclad number, but as a rough guide I guess it might be ok? The lower your initial framerate, the less the proportinoal impact is if it truly is a fixed cost.
Yes, that's why it exists.
But I prefer Control/Young Bloods DLSS over Control/youngbloods TAA for example. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Though DLSS 2.0 can sometimes look a bit "oversharp" in my opinion. It's hard to show off.
Example with sharp contrasts in the scene:
1.) You can see reconstruction artifact on the main character (moving sideways).
2.) But that's not what I'm trying to show: Look at the, nearly white wall textures. They look a bit strange to me. Like there is a fine "grain" effect going on.
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DEATH STRANDING PC Partnership Brings NVIDIA DLSS 2.0 Tech To Hideo Kojima’s Stunning Game
Performance-enhancing NVIDIA DLSS 2.0 tech headlines the list of enhancements available in DEATH STRANDING when it launches on PC July 14th. Plus, check out a new PC trailer, and stay tuned for more info.
www.nvidia.com
Are we looking at a scenario where DLSS implementation will be the major difference that will set PC and next-gen apart, at least early on?
GPU-wise we could have potentially weaker cards that push more pixels, enabling more RT and other effects at higher resolutions, etc.
And I imagine the gap will widen considerably with time. For all the talk of TFs an early mid-gen revision with tensor cores (or an equivalent solution) doesn't seem so far fetched to me.
GPU-wise we could have potentially weaker cards that push more pixels, enabling more RT and other effects at higher resolutions, etc.
And I imagine the gap will widen considerably with time. For all the talk of TFs an early mid-gen revision with tensor cores (or an equivalent solution) doesn't seem so far fetched to me.
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This is not how deep learning models are specified. You wouldn't use a different architecture per game. Unless you mean something else by "new network"? Hyperparameters maybe?
DLSS 2.0 implements generalised training. It is no longer game specific. This is seemingly the key change from DLSS 1.0.
However, the developer still needs to implement it in the render pipeline (to my understanding similarly to TAA) and provide motion vectors as input. These steps have not changed.
That info was taken straight from Nvidia's explanation for how DLSS 1.0 works, so I guess you should ask them?
DLSS 2.0 keep blowing my mind, an option which bring both better image quality ( with few exception obviously ) and more fps at the same time.
Mine too.
Digital Foundry even flat out recommends it over native + TAA for this game.
Fells a bit surreal.
I can only find this post by NVIDIA where they specifically state that DLSS 1.0 required new model training for each new game and that DLSS 2.0 instead uses generalised non game specific training.
To me it seems that this is the particul feature that console will really lack during the gen..
Guys I have older Hardware:
i7 7700K @ 4.6
GTX 1080
16 RAM
Yay or nay? will I be able to make this game run and look good?
i7 7700K @ 4.6
GTX 1080
16 RAM
Yay or nay? will I be able to make this game run and look good?
Yeah, the last time I was getting better performance, combined with better visuals was on an actual 3dfx Voodoo 1.
DLSS is breaching into legendary territory.
I'll look and see if I can find it, but the info I read about it specifically mentioned having to set up individual AI networks for each game, vs DLSS 2.0 still needing to individually add support for the game but every game using the same AI network to train the AI for the game.
RTX 20 series. 30 series will support it to when they launch.
Just a reminder, that DLSS isn't black magic or 'free' performance. Remember how much more expensive the 20 series was? Part of that were the additional tensor cores on the GPU. That silicon is handling DLSS 2.0 and if you bought an RTX card you paid for it. Games that don't use DLSS leave all that silicon completely idle, doing nothing.
So while I love the approach, it uses specific silicon to achieve the result.
Thanks for the answer and agree with your point, either it should become more standard or find a way for it to run it on the main hardware (don't know if it is feasible). Still very cool tech that should drive more innovation in the optimization side.
Regarding how the tech started?
DLSS 2.0 looking better than native resolution is a bit black magic.
So wait in game do I lower the resolution then enable it? Or just enable it and it does the rest? This black magic has me confused lol
*shrug*. Nvidia promised it would get better over time when they announced the feature. Given the nature of machine learning its not too surprising that it did. And again, a decent area of the GPU was dedicated to tensor cores that are otherwise doing *nothing* when you are playing a game. DLSS fell woefully short of what Nvidia promised initially, but fortunately they got it to where they promised in less than a year. Again, if you bought an RTX card, you literally paid extra in part because of those tensor cores.
TLAA has always suffered from flaws inherent to the technique. DLSS leverages cores designed to accelerate machine learning derived code, and machine learning's strength is in image processing. If you bought an RTX card, you paid more, so you could use this feature if the game supported it. My $1200 graphics card, running the game faster than a less expensive (to the tune of multiple hundreds of dollars) top of the line Radeon card? That doesn't feel like magic to me.
You just enable it in game.
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It's an AI based tech. It improves with training, it can get better.
Dlss 2.0 is insanity. I can't wait to upgrade my 1660ti to a 3070 whenever it comes out. It's one of the reasons I haven't played through Control yet. That and Cyberpunk should be fun to experience using DLSS to utilize all the rtx features.
More than just AI learning. They scratched how the tech worked and started from a different approach, especially as people weren't satisfied with previous results.
No "shrug" or "it was always supposed to get better". The early reception on the quality of DLSS played a significant role in why DLSS 2.0 started development.
You just enable it.
With DLSS you set your target resolution as normal (porbbaly the native resolution of your monitor), then turn on DLSS. DLSS will lower internal resolution and reconstruct on it's own.
I think performance mode is a x4 pixel count improvement, while quality is a x2?. So if you set your target resolution to 4k, DLSS performance mode actually runs the game at 1080p, while quality mode will render it at 1440. If your target resolution is say 3440x1440p (an ultra wide monitor) then DLSS performance would render it at 1720 x 720p and quality at 2293 x 960 I believe. And 1080p would be rendered at 540p performance 720p quality.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It's almost there. performance mode is 1080p up to 4k and it looks comparable to native + TAA. not quite as good, but not considerably worse either.
Okay, after watching the Digital Foundry video... it might be super premature for me to say this considering we haven't fully seen what PS5/Series X games can do, but DLSS 2.0 is the best "next-gen" feature I've seen since Share Play on the PS4. If you're aware that it exists & you have the means to get it, I can't understand why you would get an AMD GPU over an Nvidia one.
At the same time, it's kinda scary because you can ride that GPU out longer with DLSS enabled, which would hurt Nvidia's pockets. At what point do that stop supporting certain cards? And with that in mind, I can understand why Sony & Microsoft would never want to invest in it in consoles. Console lifespan could go up significantly.
At the same time, it's kinda scary because you can ride that GPU out longer with DLSS enabled, which would hurt Nvidia's pockets. At what point do that stop supporting certain cards? And with that in mind, I can understand why Sony & Microsoft would never want to invest in it in consoles. Console lifespan could go up significantly.
Game developers will continue to push graphics. Even with a 100% improvement in frame rate some visual effects will still mean you will need more raw GPU power to render them. Ray tracing is one right off the bat. The performance of some implementations is bad enough that even a 2080ti can't run games at 60 FPS with it on. DLSS makes the game playable, but you can easily imagine a more powerful GPU will allow you to enable more graphics effects and ray tracing features WHILE still maintaining a high frame rate.
I think you're right, except some games have a third mode (balanced) which is throwing me. In that case I think it goes 1800p, 1440p, 720p for quality, balanced and performance respectively.
By setting up an individual model for each game they mean fit in a new model on the training data for that game. That was the procedure for implementing DLSS 1.0. The person you initially replied was correct on what changed in DLSS 2.0.
As I said, the extra work per game to add DLSS 2.0 support is in the supplying of motion vectors as model input for inference in the render pipeline, not for training. Training for DLSS 2.0 is on generalised non game specific content. This is common practice in modern ML and is known as transfer or meta learning depending on the relationship of the initial task to the downstream task.
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