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DEATH STRANDING - Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
I'm gonna say this here as well as I said in the main topic.
The ending of the game really resonated with me on an emotional level as a new parent. I was sitting in complete silence watching the last few minutes and pretty sure I let out an audible "nooooo" when Cliff drops Sam/BB on the ground after he is accidentally shot.
Then the whole incinerator scene. Lou starting to form a strand cord and seeing other floating BB's signifying all the other BB's that were burned in the incinerator got me real fucking good. Lou waking up and crying was probably the happiest narrative moment in any medium I've had in a long while.
Is it overly melodramatic ? Sure.
Was it an effective ending ? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Of course everyone's personal mileage may vary.
That was a great scene.
I just wish it wasn't followed by two hours of mostly pretentious nonsense.
The worst part for me was that you couldn't even explore the surrounding area. It would have been cool at least to see how far you could travel before the credits finished rolling, but no...it just teleports you back to the beach if you get too far.
I absolutely hate Sam's beach sequence. It's an overly long exposition dump that serves to undercut Amelie's beach sequence, both emotionally and logically.
Just give me a quick cutscene over whatever the fuck that was supposed to be.
Just give me a quick cutscene over whatever the fuck that was supposed to be.
Yeah, that whole beach sequence could very easily have been cut in half (or even more) and not lose anything relevant. Just making it a single cohesive scene instead of the 2, 3 minute breaks between the running and sitting down etc would have been better.
I kept testing to see how far I could go before it would teleport me back.
I stand by my earlier post that certain reveals should've come earlier. For instance, the Cliff-Sam reveal should've come sooner. The scene where Die-Hardman confesses to Sam would've worked SO much better if Sam knew he was the one that killed his father.
The beach scene is the weirdest thing, I guess Kojima wanted to frustrate the player because when you press the 'talk" button sometimes Sam says things like "Is this even finished?" and "I think I found a bug", but I can't even begin to understand what was the point of Amelie telling you her story again.
The implication was pretty clear the first time Cliff says "they told me you're Sam Bridges, but you're Sam Porter". It should have been spoken in dialogue in the Vietnam flashback ending in their final fight. Although I guess at that point the game pretty much outright said it without having to say it with the whistling and Sam finishing Cliff's whistle from memory.
I guess Kojima thought he needed to make it extra clear for the people not paying attention or something lol.
The continuity of Cliff hugging Sam the same way in both instances (Vietnam and in the final flashback) before being shot in the back was good though.
The ordering of the reveals near the end makes little to no sense. Like the Cliff reveal would have worked better after the Vietnam scene as that's really the last time you interact with Cliff.
I think it was supposed to be a jab at MGSV or something? A lot of fervor around that game was that it felt "unfinished."
But this isn't clever or interesting in the slightest.
And I'd go further to say you don't need the reveal scene at all. I felt like the actual "reveal" was at the end of the Vietnam scene. The camera blinks and zooms into Sam, and Cliff hugs Sam and not BB in that scene. I feel like you can't get anymore obvious then that. We didn't need an almost hour long end sequence for this obvious twist.
Sam and Amelie running down the beach with goofy grins on their races in Chapter 9 made me very happy.
It's not so much about clarity, we all basically figured it out by then. But until the final end flashback, Sam didn't figure it out. Thus, he has this emotional confession by Die-Hardman where he doesn't know that he's the one that killed his dad. The scene is far more powerful with the knowledge that he's also asking for Sam's forgiveness. And, Sam having to decide whether or not to forgive him.
Exactly.
I don't think Lou was *dead* dead by the end. Just near-death or unresponsive in the pod.
And taking her out of the pod had a 70% chance of catastrophic failure but 30% chance of survival which Sam risked.
Ideally, I would like to think Sam the character would have figured it out by the end of the Vietnam flashback as well, which would explain his more-than-usual dryness towards DHardman.
One of my biggest disappointments with the story is how little the characters are really used and developed. Like, exposition aside, what was the role of Deadman? I thought his thing about not having his own beach would be relevant in some way or another, but I don't recall of it being even mentioned again.
And don't get me started on Heartman, his entire character is just the scene from his reveal trailer. It's a great scene, but it's just that.
I always thought that the characters were one of the biggest strengths of MGS, so I can't comprehend what the hell happened with this game.
And don't get me started on Heartman, his entire character is just the scene from his reveal trailer. It's a great scene, but it's just that.
I always thought that the characters were one of the biggest strengths of MGS, so I can't comprehend what the hell happened with this game.
Again, this is what happens when you remove the Codec as a narrative device.
When they did the fusion dance I was legit creeped out, even if that wasn't the intention of the scene. I really hope Kojima goes full horror on his next game
I loved the fact that they did the fusion dance and became Lockma/Mackne. I was so entertained.
The 10th time he gave a thumbs up at the camera, I was like "Yeah OK we get it .. 4th wall and stuff"
(him taking likes away from Sam for giving a dumb answer to something was pretty funny though)
The Heartman scene was probably my favorite thing about the game because I love philosophical speculations and examinative writing in fiction like his hypotheses on extinction events. I saw the first 10 seconds of his "reveal trailer" and I thought him being "Special Appearance" and all was gonna mean he would be some side-character with self-indulgent cutscenes talking about Kojima's favorite movies and music - so I was surprised this scene was the whole reveal trailer.
But not fully watching that reveal trailer it wasn't ruined for me and I loved that cutscene more than most in the game and the one after you get back was good too. I was just a little disappointed it ended there. SAM getting dislikes for Scratching was hilarious to me, and I'm okay with the thumbs up joke being repeated because it's just so typical japanese humor to repeat a punchline 10 times after it's dead.
But not fully watching that reveal trailer it wasn't ruined for me and I loved that cutscene more than most in the game and the one after you get back was good too. I was just a little disappointed it ended there. SAM getting dislikes for Scratching was hilarious to me, and I'm okay with the thumbs up joke being repeated because it's just so typical japanese humor to repeat a punchline 10 times after it's dead.
So let's delve a bit into Amelie/Bridget. So Amelie's plan was to pretend to be kidnapped by Higgs as a way to force Sam to connect the chiral network and quicken the extinction event? Is there a reason why she just didn't do it herself or simply have Higgs do it? Or why Higgs was trying to control her at the end despite the two having a similar goal in mind?
Or is this a case of Amelie/Bridget initially not wanting an extinction before the initial Death Stranding, then realized extinction will happen anyway and so repurposes the chiral network to hasten humanity's death and works with Higgs, then decides no and wants Sam to stop her, then finally decided she gives up and will let Sam decide?
Or is this a case of Amelie/Bridget initially not wanting an extinction before the initial Death Stranding, then realized extinction will happen anyway and so repurposes the chiral network to hasten humanity's death and works with Higgs, then decides no and wants Sam to stop her, then finally decided she gives up and will let Sam decide?
My god, I didn't even remember that. It was cute the first couple of times, though!
I took it as Higgs was too unstable and Bridges would probably not want to work with him (Higgs) however Sam can successfully connect everyone together, and hence everyone has access to (or Amelie can access them via ) Amelie's beach.
The whole Higgs confrontation was a ruse, Amelie was always in control and could possibly even have been manipulating Higgs while portraying herself as a victim to motivate Sam. Amelie couldn't bridge the world together because she's stuck (?) in the beach and needs Sam to connect everything together so she has access.
I mean, if the whole point was to build the network, why Princess Beach didn't help Bridges and her people to cross the country? The biggest hardship are the BTs, but she's able to control them.
I guess she still wanted to be stopped, so she used Sam to make the decision for her.
I guess she still wanted to be stopped, so she used Sam to make the decision for her.
Yeah, she came off as a reluctant villain. Doesn't want to enact her plan and desperately wants someone to stop her (even though she wouldn't say it), but thinks that the world's fate is futile and sort of just resigned herself to it.
Well Amelie and Bridges as an entity weren't seeing eye to eye. She was claiming the chiral network would help everyone, which was the initial plan, but then decided to use it to bring about the Last Stranding. I'm not sure if her decision to cause the Last Stranding was before or after her capture by Higgs. Either way seems like Higgs could have just put the remaining locations on to the chiral network for her unless the idea was they needed someone to con the different locations and Sam was the unsuspecting peddler while Higgs was too well known.
Also if Amelie is in control, why the whole elaborate kidnapping stuff in Edge Knot City? At that point Sam's purpose had been fulfilled and wasn't needed any longer. Why do this whole kidnapping business to the beach? Also why did Amelie push Sam out of Bridget/Amelie's beach?
I really like that premise for the villain of the story, if only they didn't beat you in the head so many times with the explanation.
I guess she didn't want to reveal the truth about Die Hardman/Cliff at that point. If Sam had stayed around with those 2, DHardman would have probably started talking and spilling his guts right there right then.
But why does that matter to her? The whole thing involving Cliff and Die Hardman has no impact whatsoever on her.
Would that really matter, though? Like, the next time they meet Amelie tells Sam that she's going to end the world. That's pretty big.
I think she just didn't want to let Sam discover that Cliff was his father. Maybe she wasn't ready yet.
My guess is because she needs Sam to make an independent decision about either shooting her or letting her destroy the world in the ending.
If Sam had found out at that point that Bridget was responsible for his father's death and his own fate, it would have colored his judgment and decision making for the big final choice (the power-of-friendship Hug).
Yeah, kinda weird for the game to give Sam a narrative choice in the cut-scene and then shooting her in game play not having any effect :p
Did cliff name his son ? I don't recall him calling BB Sam, must've missed it. (guessing Sam was a name chosen by Bridget in the first place).
They didn't let me use the rope either! It was also soaked on Sam's blood, so it should have some kind of effect!
The homenage of The End of Evangelion'd be completed
That's quite the Cliffhanger
Does it explain how Higgs knew about Bridget's death? I know he can control BTs, but I don't know if his "sniffing" came from Amelie as well.
I don't think any of it actually makes coherent sense in the end.
Higgs didn't actually kidnap her: she doesn't really exist. It was all an act she put on for....reasons?
She's actively having Higgs blow up Knot Cities while also trying to spread the network as widely as possible.
I was really surprised Kojima didn't go further into the dress colors. Could have the part of amelie that wants to destroy everything always show up in grey and the version that wants to save everything be red. There's plenty of lynch influence already. It would make more sense for her to basically have split personalities vs what is actually in the plot imo.
In Cliff's death monologue, seems like BB was already named. The last cutscene was mostly of Sam's memories and not actually with Cliff (I think???) and there Cliff explains Sam's name and all.
Was anyone else hoping that the game would go full meta and start using other players as a plot device? Like, they mention a couple of times that the beaches are some kind of multiverse, so I was kind of hoping to actually see another player on Sam's beach at the end
The dolls of Cliff are broken down, maybe Amelie wasn't helping him directly. Is ever stated if Cliff is special in some way? Heartman is able to share other people beaches, maybe Cliff has some similar power and is able to feed of Amelie's?
I don't know, what's the other explanation? Amelie wanted to stop Sam from completing the network, so she bringed back his father's ghost hoping that Cliff would confuse his son's BB with him and thus kill his son and
I had to do a double take when a weird named blob rose out of the tar pit to hand me a blood bag in one of the boss fights.
I took it as B.T Cliff maybe being a little out of Bridget's control maybe, he seems to be the only B.T who is still human in appearance and can communicate properly and can control other BT's to do his bidding (his soldiers).
Amelie could probably sense Bridget's death and informed him.
