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Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
No, it wasn't. I made my vote 3 minutes before EoD and at the time that I made it the vote was tied. If you look at the time stamps of Malus and my vote there is less than a minute between those 2. I made my vote from my phone so I didn't saw that Malus had changed his vote before I made mine. So the lunch was not even close from set.



Instead of just relying in the vote tool you should actually read the thread. When I voted for Meatwad I said that my top scum was Turmoil but I wanted to push some participation from other players (in this case Meatwad, VA and Fat4all). It´s in the post before my vote. At that point Maol had barely posted. But then he made some posts about how he was pretty sure that Turmoil was town, and he couldn't have know that unless he was scum. In my first post after Maol made this statements I called him out and voted for him.

I didn't left a prod vote hanging. I wasn't around. The first post that I made I changed my vote for Maol.
Alright, I hadn't seen that you didn't post anything between your Meatwad vote (#321) and the vote for Maol (#461). I still think you had a pretty late vote for turmoil if he was your biggest scum read and apparently the connection you saw to vote for Maol on #461.
 
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Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
If anyone else has preferences on a day extension or keeping it as is, now would be the time to PM me.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I'm re-reading both Kalor and Meatwad now - I think my vote will be between the two of them today. But I'm starting with Kalor because he pushed back and said he townread VA/Zeke until today and that was not the sense that I had throughout the game so I wanted to pursue it a little more.

Kalor starts the game by pushing on VA's "I'm town!" post.
Provided you are telling the truth, how does that benefit town in anyway?
I wasn't saying it would benefit town. Even if it wasn't a joke I was trying to see how they would justify it because I can't think of any reasoning for it. I've played enough games at this point that I don't really take potential claims like that as jokes, especially one worded like that when it could have went both ways, and it creates a potential discussion point either way. I have played with Vincent before but I have 0 memory of them doing that before, though apparently they have.

So Kalor pushed on a little thing and then kinda overexplained it. The second post was after Fran questioned him.
For the other popular lynch votes right now, Meatwad has been lower activity but their Turmoil vote is weird. Unless I missed it I don't believe they had a reason for it. Just sort of happened.

Vincent I see the justification for but don't feel inclined to vote for them myself.
This post strikes me as weird. I keep going back and reading around it because it sounds like it's in conversation or a continuation, right? But it's not. It comes right after a vote count post and all I can think is that suddenly Kalor felt like he needed to justify his vote. But this doesn't strike me as a townread on VA? Just "I'm not voting there right now."

Than on to day 2 - this is him being asked about Fran.
I didn't feel strongly enough to vote for them. That'll be one of my reread areas today.
Thing is, I don't get the sense Kalor has felt strongly about anything at all. Later, Gorlak pushes on Kalor with a reminder that he promised to reread Fran and we get this:

Did I? I have no memory of that or any reminders of it. I'm not sure what to make of Fran. They'd be one of the players that fall into my "No clue" category right now.
So he didn't feel strongly enough about Fran to vote there - then later he has no read on Fran at all. There's a difference there, a shift in language. These are not the same things.

I haven't been on this "tip" for a few days. I was fairly sure they were town prior to today, hence why I didn't vote for them before.
So we're back to this. I do not get the impression Kalor felt particularly strongly about VA/Zeke. There's one post putting them into a town category and then otherwise it's back and forth. And with the justification post to Zeke, this is what we get. But he hasn't voted for Meatwad, either, despite this suspicion.
I'm not trying to intentionally avoid it, just haven't had the time to reread them, but I have now. At the time, I picked you over Meat because you were fresher on my mind. Honestly there was no real reason other than that. My suspicion of Meat rests on a couple of areas, the weird way votes against them on day 1 were treated and the lack of them taking a firm stance on anything, seen in this post as an example.

This is somewhat lacking compared to how long it took me to finally write something but my feelings have shifted enough since the start of the day that I don't feel as willing to vote for you right now

Unvote
But what has Kalor found? Do we know how he feels?

This is why I pointed out his soft vote on Zeke. It's not Kalor's style. He's not using his votes as prods, pressure, or weapons; he's not even really putting them on his scum reads. So that move today came out of nowhere. Certainly there's not a vote on Meatwad. Why not? He's laid the groundwork for it. He seems to scumread Meatwad.

I think they're partners.
 
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Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
The day will be extended up to 24 hours based on player feedback. I'll update the timer when I find out if editing it will break anything.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
I'm sad scum isn't even trying to scumread me anymore :(
We've had monkey bullshit power relations at the start. kits went in, fantomas too. I think ketkat as well. 2/4 townies. Later fran scumread me for being obviously in a three man scum team that openly power plays eod1. that lingered during d2, but he wasn't really convinced.

I need my antogonistic fix. Someone scumread me please.

Why would you scumread yourself?
lol
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,624
I'm re-reading both Kalor and Meatwad now - I think my vote will be between the two of them today. But I'm starting with Kalor because he pushed back and said he townread VA/Zeke until today and that was not the sense that I had throughout the game so I wanted to pursue it a little more.

Kalor starts the game by pushing on VA's "I'm town!" post.



So Kalor pushed on a little thing and then kinda overexplained it. The second post was after Fran questioned him.

This post strikes me as weird. I keep going back and reading around it because it sounds like it's in conversation or a continuation, right? But it's not. It comes right after a vote count post and all I can think is that suddenly Kalor felt like he needed to justify his vote. But this doesn't strike me as a townread on VA? Just "I'm not voting there right now."

Than on to day 2 - this is him being asked about Fran.

Thing is, I don't get the sense Kalor has felt strongly about anything at all. Later, Gorlak pushes on Kalor with a reminder that he promised to reread Fran and we get this:


So he didn't feel strongly enough about Fran to vote there - then later he has no read on Fran at all. There's a difference there, a shift in language. These are not the same things.


So we're back to this. I do not get the impression Kalor felt particularly strongly about VA/Zeke. There's one post putting them into a town category and then otherwise it's back and forth. And with the justification post to Zeke, this is what we get. But he hasn't voted for Meatwad, either, despite this suspicion.

But what has Kalor found? Do we know how he feels?

This is why I pointed out his soft vote on Zeke. It's not Kalor's style. He's not using his votes as prods, pressure, or weapons; he's not even really putting them on his scum reads. So that move today came out of nowhere. Certainly there's not a vote on Meatwad. Why not? He's laid the groundwork for it. He seems to scumread Meatwad.

I think they're partners.

Make whatever arguments you want, I even agree with some of your points, but stop talking about some made up "style" you have in your head about me. As I've said already, in this case it's wrong and adds nothing to the argument anyway. Meta is just a weak filler excuse no matter the time of day.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Make whatever arguments you want, I even agree with some of your points, but stop talking about some made up "style" you have in your head about me. As I've said already, in this case it's wrong and adds nothing to the argument anyway. Meta is just a weak filler excuse no matter the time of day.
It's not though. You did something today you haven't done all game. You haven't moved a vote prior to this. You haven't really taken a stand. You're coasting. That vote looked opportunistic, capitalizing on Zeke replacing VA and after you got pushback from multiple people, you dropped it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Hey, you got handprinted, maybe they're just all waiting for you to explode or something.
Take that back! I'm not gonna explode. Am I?

Real talk: Where is the team here? I find it unlikely that scum would consist of low activity coasters only.

Fantomas townread you, Mao townread Fat, you and me. turmoil scumread you d1. I reread Ketkat today, but I don't remember.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Take that back! I'm not gonna explode. Am I?

Real talk: Where is the team here? I find it unlikely that scum would consist of low activity coasters only.

Fantomas townread you, Mao townread Fat, you and me. turmoil scumread you d1. I reread Ketkat today, but I don't remember.
Ket didn't have a ton of strong positions before they took her out.

I think you're right and there's one unexpected person. And while on the face I agree with kits that a mass claim could be good after this phase, if scum got fake roles and everything, that makes it a lot harder. We DO know that some things are unlikely to get claimed though (like the handprinter) so that'll be something to go on.

The hope for me is that today at least we should get some good vote data.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
If we mislunch, tomorrow is going to be super hard. If 4 non town players that's Lylo to be clear.
It gets worse if handprint thing IS an arsonist. Or if people start falling over dead from like a delayed kill or something. My worst fear is that we actually started with a scum team of one or something and it's slowly turning y'all scum. I think you'd roll straight to the end and victory. But I think that's tinfoil-hat level worry.

I think our odds today are good that we will hit scum. The 24-hour extension means some of these people who've been under a rock all weekend have some time to do something. But it also gives another 24 hours for scum to strategize.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,018
But... why Maol? He was already acting pretty weird. Why not target someone totally unlikely to ever get voted out? This is what I don't get about these elaborate theories. I don't understand why I would go all out to protect Meatwad or why I would go all out to target Maol in particular. Not only are neither of these strategies anything I've done in the past - the closest I've ever come to putting myself on the line for a scummate was Blarg in GoT because he did have a power we wanted to use and I've never attempted a wild gambit, much less anything on the scale of what happened here. I've always been anti-gambit. But apparently in this game I am suddenly the mafia mastermind of gambits and bold plays, all to protect Meatwad and kill Maol because reasons.

From my perspective, it feels like bizarro world shit. I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be dismissive, it's just wild to me though it's not like you have a window into my head.

But let me ask you a question here about roles and play approaches. So you believe all this is possible. Do you believe Kalor was vanilla? Do you think Kalor has played like a vanilla in this game?
Fair enough, I suppose Maol wouldn't have been the best target for a play like that. Perhaps you wanted someone who'd be an easier lunch target but a 'redcheck' would be enough to get any player lynched. Not sure if you remember, but GoT was my first game and I was pushing hard for a Blarg lunch D1 and I remember you defending him (subtly) and maybe that's colored my perception a bit.

'Ideally' a vanilla player would be more active and make themselves a better NK target. Kalor isn't playing like that, they're barely involved in the game and don't seem to be making much of an effort to game solve. The most likely reason for that is because Kalor already knows who scum/town are.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Not sure if you remember, but GoT was my first game and I was pushing hard for a Blarg lunch D1 and I remember you defending him (subtly) and maybe that's colored my perception a bit.
Yeah, I think it's the closest I've ever come to trying to bodyblock a scummate. He had an extra kill or something we hadn't used and we were trying to stop it. It also failed, for him and for me - he went and then I went.

But we can't talk about that game because we were terrible to Gorlak.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Glad we got the extension. I want to hear some reads from those not voting right now. And I think I've been far too good on Fat4all after last phase - what are you thinking now other than your Monkey read?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Damn, that's really rough. 3 mislynches and we're in Lylo? I think a neutral arsonist would be too much for this game then...
That's what I've been saying. Unless there's also a neutralizer, I don't know how this game supports an arsonist-style role.

But unless the handprint is this game's version of a fruit vendor, it does something.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Neutral marker is possible.

But let's not dive into that topic again, unless we want to talk about how kits is not offering much in terms of scum hunting. Much talk, but few stances in between.

It's interesting how Kopite vanished off people's radar. He's clearly putting out more now
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,018
That's what I've been saying. Unless there's also a neutralizer, I don't know how this game supports an arsonist-style role.

But unless the handprint is this game's version of a fruit vendor, it does something.
Is there a role where you need to mark multiple people as your win condition but they dont die afterwards?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Neutral marker is possible.

But let's not dive into that topic again, unless we want to talk about how kits is not offering much in terms of scum hunting. Much talk, but few stances in between.

It's interesting how Kopite vanished off people's radar. He's clearly putting out more now
Almost nothing in between for kits.

Feels like Kopite is actually doing something, though I'd love to see full reads or even a ranking or something.
Is there a role where you need to mark multiple people as your win condition but they dont die afterwards?
Truly dunno. With my role and Maol's role and whatever Fat4All is claiming, it's possible there's some stuff that's totally made up for this game.

For instance, the condition that changes Fat4All could be the number of people who are marked. WHO KNOWS. We have nothing to go on whatsoever. And that sucks.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,018
Truly dunno. With my role and Maol's role and whatever Fat4All is claiming, it's possible there's some stuff that's totally made up for this game.

For instance, the condition that changes Fat4All could be the number of people who are marked. WHO KNOWS. We have nothing to go on whatsoever. And that sucks.
Why do you think doggo seems to be the only one aware that his role can be changed?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Why do you think doggo seems to be the only one aware that his role can be changed?
Are you asking me why I don't suspect someone else? Or why I think he's the only one?

As for the first, he's the only one who came out with it. I have no idea what's out there. People have been pretty cagey. I haven't even noticed any particular breadcrumbs, so I'd guess there's some shit going on.

What I do find unusual is that almost no one commented on the fact that Kalor didn't reveal any details about his role change (I guess it's better than hated) and only sort of mentioned it and that no one followed up on that or on Fatdog's posts, which took place over two phases. If someone did, I sure didn't see it. I guess that would lean toward maybe someone else with a strange role who doesn't want to call attention, maybe. But there are a lot of details and behaviors that are just going... undiscussed.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Maybe if I switch, I don't know. We're almost to original day end time and we still have three people under ten posts and two prime candidates not voting or engaging.

vote: Meatwad
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Are you asking me why I don't suspect someone else? Or why I think he's the only one?

As for the first, he's the only one who came out with it. I have no idea what's out there. People have been pretty cagey. I haven't even noticed any particular breadcrumbs, so I'd guess there's some shit going on.

What I do find unusual is that almost no one commented on the fact that Kalor didn't reveal any details about his role change (I guess it's better than hated) and only sort of mentioned it and that no one followed up on that or on Fatdog's posts, which took place over two phases. If someone did, I sure didn't see it. I guess that would lean toward maybe someone else with a strange role who doesn't want to call attention, maybe. But there are a lot of details and behaviors that are just going... undiscussed.
That's the main thing that caught my attention so far as Fat4All seems to be the odd one out. Without knowing what changes happened it's hard to guess and kinda fruitless to discuss mechanics now.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,624
I said I would get another vote down before the initial day end time so...

Vote: Meatwad

One scum read to another for now.

Although right now looking at the player list, I'm also skeptical of Fran and Monkey. Yes, I'm sure someone will quote me and want me to expand on those two people but it's late here and I'm lazy. The quietness of this game isn't really helping because there's some more people I want to hear from.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
I said I would get another vote down before the initial day end time so...

Vote: Meatwad

One scum read to another for now.

Although right now looking at the player list, I'm also skeptical of Fran and Monkey. Yes, I'm sure someone will quote me and want me to expand on those two people but it's late here and I'm lazy. The quietness of this game isn't really helping because there's some more people I want to hear from.
Well, I'll do the honors then. What can you say about this Monkey read of yours? I remember you agreeing with her role claim at some point and no scum read prior to this, so dropping her name made me think of an OMGUS read.

(answer this when you can, obviously).
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,624
Well, I'll do the honors then. What can you say about this Monkey read of yours? I remember you agreeing with her role claim at some point and no scum read prior to this, so dropping her name made me think of an OMGUS read.

(answer this when you can, obviously).

I briefly mentioned this earlier today but the way they addressed Vincents vote on Meatwad was weird on day 1, where she said the vote wasn't worth it because it would become clear eventually if Meatwad was scum. Kopite brought it up as well and it's just a weird post. She has since addressed it and is currently voting for Meatwad but that doesn't really detract from that weird feeling. There's also some of the weirdness around her role claim which I'm still not sure about, or even really how it works. It's certainly elaborate for a potentially fake role claim but those are the ones that work best anyway, and scum did get some kind of fake role claim (though that might just be names).

Part of it also comes from the feeling that at least one of the higher activity posters is probably scum (though obviously not for certain) and she'd be the one I'd pick out of them (Monkey, Gorlak, Kits and yourself being the top 4 currently).

Also this is a random piece of information I noticed earlier that might be completely useless but she keeps bringing up the idea of the handprint thing being a potential arsonist. 12/25 arsonist mentions (prior to this post) being from her, the next highest being 4 mentions from a single person.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Also this is a random piece of information I noticed earlier that might be completely useless but she keeps bringing up the idea of the handprint thing being a potential arsonist. 12/25 arsonist mentions (prior to this post) being from her, the next highest being 4 mentions from a single person.
This is super disingenuous, but a great way to mention that I'm talking about something without actually discussing any of the context around it, or content. A+++ for manipulative framing, I suppose.
Neither really, I'm just wondering why Fats is the only one who knows his role can change and how. Why is no one else aware of this, including Mao and I assume Kalor?
Seems to me it's something inherent in Fat4All's role but something that happened to Maol, and so by extension, Kalor, I'd guess (so someone else's role). But then again, if Fatdog's is related to game conditions, maybe what happened to Maol and Kalor is, too?

We just don't have enough information to figure how it balances or what could be causing it. Until Fatdog clarified, I don't think I would have considered that what happened to Maol and Kalor was anything other than from a role - someone changing them.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,528
here
in the video game the backpack doesn't have anything to do with the handprints being seeable

the backpack sees the BT's shadows, you can see the handprints just fine without it