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EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,029
I hadn't been up long so I just mentioned the reason that stuck out when I was catching up.

Part of it is trying to reconcile my suspicion of both of you with the fact Vincent voted for Meatwad so early on day 1. Not sure how that fits in quite yet. I need to reread Meatwad at some point so maybe I'd feel differently after that.
Reads like you made up a reason to vote me after being called out on your initial vote on me was weak.

Even after kop called you out, you never mentioned you scum read the slot beforehand.

Why are you scumreading meat?
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,029
Also I was BLOCKED last night as I said above. You followed that discussion.

Kopite Kalor Fran EzekelRAGE You all have read that too.
I was blocked. Kits targeted me. She came out first though. How does that make you all feel? Where do you lean? Insignificant? Coincidence? Caught scum!kits? What happened here?
Idk what you are talking about. Currently reading the thread now when I have time. On page 4/post 310ish.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
Can you please give me your top two scum reads real quick.

Real quick

Fandorin, His tunneling of me seems fake and opportunistic
EzekelRAGE, Vincent was very wishy-washy previously, like he just wanted to blend in.

I'm gonna go back a re-read a bunch of stuff when I get the time to make better reads, but this is what I'm feeling at the moment
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Also I was BLOCKED last night as I said above. You followed that discussion.

Kopite Kalor Fran EzekelRAGE You all have read that too.
I was blocked. Kits targeted me. She came out first though. How does that make you all feel? Where do you lean? Insignificant? Coincidence? Caught scum!kits? What happened here?

Fanto was targeted by Kitsu N1 but he was loved so he wouldn't have been noticed about being blocked.

Were you told that you were blocked or that your action failed?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
speaking of which if this neutral is functioning like an Arsonist maybe the game has 2 mafia + 1 evil neutral?
It's possible, but I doubt the scum team is that small. That would feel really underwhelming at the start. And they would need a pretty good counter to an arsonist. Flavourwise I see us as already doomed to die, but I think it's unlikely. Also targeting me after D1 and you now, feels like someone trying to get longer living targets. Who knows.. pointless speculation at this point.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,013
Kalor's looking suspect after the last couple of posts, let me try to play around with him, Meatwad and Monkey.

Kalor makes a post saying that he scumreads Meat and Zeke. Offers no explanation but makes a vote. Gets called out, weak defence. Did he bring up Meatwad who's on many a scum list to get some town cred? Also maybe that's just some prep for a potential bus later. And speaking of busses, this post got highlighted again (ironically by Kalor)

I wouldn't vote Meatwad. If Meatie is scum it'll come out; with this group I don't think he could hide for too long. Too many sharp eyes here.
Tell me that doesn't sound like Monkey prepping up a bus while taking some heat off a scum mate? Covers all her bases here. The counter argument against Monkey being scum would be "Why would she brazenly make up that role and isn't it a too long and elaborate?" Well no one really seems to be talking about the 'wrong' red check so maybe it wasn't that brazen after all. As for the role, the last time I played Scum it was a role madness game where Febe had a very long and elaborate role that we tweaked a bit to convince everyone he was town. I think it 's possible that a scum Monkey has a similarish role that was also tweaked enough to be both believable and have a high enough error margin that she could safely fake a red check.
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,029
On this page (100ppp) - #1229 to roughly #1234. You posted before and afterwards, thought you had seen this current development.

Nope.

What does the mark have to do with the blocking?

Kop was marked, which leads you to saying you were blocked.
How does kit fit in this? You think she is lying about her role?
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,013
Also I was BLOCKED last night as I said above. You followed that discussion.

Kopite Kalor Fran EzekelRAGE You all have read that too.
I was blocked. Kits targeted me. She came out first though. How does that make you all feel? Where do you lean? Insignificant? Coincidence? Caught scum!kits? What happened here?
Frans post reminded me that Kits revealed that she targeted Fanto last phase. Of course Fanto couldn't know if he was blocked or not but Kits wouldn't have been able to know that. I think Scum is probably wary of you, but figured a NK attempt might be wasted as we may have protective PRs so a roleblock was the next best thing. FWIW I think Kits targeting you is a waste but you've been scum read by her for a bit so it doesn't come out of nowhere.

I would keep an eye on Kits though to be sure, but I think there are better lunch targets today, at least for the moment
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
What does the mark have to do with the blocking?

Kop was marked, which leads you to saying you were blocked.
How does kit fit in this? You think she is lying about her role?
In my mind the handprint could've been a delayed block. More like a 1-shot thing. Since Kopite came forward with being marked too, that theory got weaker. So revealing being blocked became more useful to town (on the minus side: scum knows I'm aware of the block as well)

Yeah, how does kits fit in this? She targeted me, idk.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,013
^ Realised I wasn't too clear. What I'm trying to say is that its too much of a risk for Kits to openly admit she targeted Fanto if her power meant Fanto was blocked. Of course she could be lying and she didn't target Fanto after all, or Neutral Kits is unaware that her targets get blocked, but that's a whole other can of worms
Frans post reminded me that Kits revealed that she targeted Fanto last phase. Of course Fanto couldn't know if he was blocked or not but Kits wouldn't have been able to know that. I think Scum is probably wary of you, but figured a NK attempt might be wasted as we may have protective PRs so a roleblock was the next best thing. FWIW I think Kits targeting you is a waste but you've been scum read by her for a bit so it doesn't come out of nowhere.

I would keep an eye on Kits though to be sure, but I think there are better lunch targets today, at least for the moment
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Also I was BLOCKED last night as I said above. You followed that discussion.

Kopite Kalor Fran EzekelRAGE You all have read that too.
I was blocked. Kits targeted me. She came out first though. How does that make you all feel? Where do you lean? Insignificant? Coincidence? Caught scum!kits? What happened here?
Oh yeah, forgot about that. I don't see why Kits would announce targeting you if she was a roleblock. I find it more likely that it's just a coincidence though I'm also wondering why she would target the one player that is least likely to be the spooky thing...
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Why are you so hung up on the idea that I'm secretly the neutral, Gorlak ? It's like you have the pieces of a puzzle but are trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. It won't fit no matter how hard you try, and if you keep doing it, the puzzle is just gonna break. Let's proceed under the assumption that I'm not the neutral. Three scum and one neutral remaining.

Player list!

-Me
-Fran
-malus
-fat4all
-Kalor
-Vincent Alexander
-Kopite
-Meatwad
-Dr. Monkey
-Fandorin
-Gorlak

That's 11 players left. Now, take me out of the equation. Under this assumption, I'm confirmed town. (I'm not, but that's why it's an assumption.) That means, 10 players. Three of them are scum, one of them is a neutral. That's a solid four out of ten not-necessarily-pro-town players. Almost half. This also means that a little under 1/3rd of the currently active players are de facto scum.

Best scenario for town today is we lynch a Scum and Scum night kills the Neutral so the Neutral won't be able to fill whatever win condition they may have. It'll be D4 Tomorrow, so it is indeed late enough to worry about that. Semi-okay case scenario for the whole game is we lynch Town but Scum still nk's the Neutral. Worse case for everyone but scum is two town are killed and we're that much closer to mylo.

Under the assumption that I'm not lying (roll with it), Gorlak isn't the Neutral. He could still be scum, but that clears up the board a little. The possible-neutral pile of players is 9, but the possible-scum pile of players is still 10.

Out of the ten players, we have one role claim by Monkey; a spirit talker. The rest of the players are basically concealing their roles. This means that, on D3, whatever town cop we've got, if we've even got a town cop, isn't comfortable laying down the green checks to narrow the list of potential scum. For whatever reason.

If we continue to fail tonight and we lynch a town+scum nk's a town, that puts the potential anti-town pile to 4/8. Those aren't exactly good odds for town. D5 would be a 1/2 chance of hitting Scum but our footing would be much more perilous in the endgame than if we were to lynch scum both Tonight and Tomorrow.

We had a lot of claims Yesterday, but the drought of information to work on at this point I think is strangling us. The only way we can win is if we solve the game, otherwise we use a lynch and have a... 1/3.333333-ish???? chance of hitting scum. I can't help but feel like we're being a little bamboozled by scum players right now, and not having got one on D1 or D2 is pretty disheartening.

I'm not really going anywhere with any of this, I'm just laying it out to try to make sense of it all.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. I don't see why Kits would announce targeting you if she was a roleblock. I find it more likely that it's just a coincidence though I'm also wondering why she would target the one player that is least likely to be the spooky thing...

I explained it before but I'll re-state it anyway because I'm nice like that sometimes. I targeted Gorlak because I felt like it was possible that, in the case of Gorlak being the Neutral, he might have been smart enough to fake being targeted by himself on the first Night in order to bait players into reacting favourably. It's not exactly a far fetched strategy, but I guess not everyone is outside-of-the-box as I am in terms of potential Mafia strategies, ahaha.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Hello everyone. Sorry for my abscence, weekends are rough to me. Will be more present today though. I'm catch up but going out now for lunch, so more thoughts when I get back.

Kopite getting marked this night rather than someone more town read makes me think that this is a neutral power indeed. Fantomas was widely town read as usual, so not really surprised by it.

Carrying over my Meatwad scum read, and I think either Kalor or VA/Ezekel as my top 2 scum reads. Will look over the votes last phase though to see if anythings jumps on.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Why are you so hung up on the idea that I'm secretly the neutral, Gorlak ? It's like you have the pieces of a puzzle but are trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. It won't fit no matter how hard you try, and if you keep doing it, the puzzle is just gonna break. Let's proceed under the assumption that I'm not the neutral. Three scum and one neutral remaining.

Player list!

-Me
-Fran
-malus
-fat4all
-Kalor
-Vincent Alexander
-Kopite
-Meatwad
-Dr. Monkey
-Fandorin
-Gorlak

That's 11 players left. Now, take me out of the equation. Under this assumption, I'm confirmed town. (I'm not, but that's why it's an assumption.) That means, 10 players. Three of them are scum, one of them is a neutral. That's a solid four out of ten not-necessarily-pro-town players. Almost half. This also means that a little under 1/3rd of the currently active players are de facto scum.

Best scenario for town today is we lynch a Scum and Scum night kills the Neutral so the Neutral won't be able to fill whatever win condition they may have. It'll be D4 Tomorrow, so it is indeed late enough to worry about that. Semi-okay case scenario for the whole game is we lynch Town but Scum still nk's the Neutral. Worse case for everyone but scum is two town are killed and we're that much closer to mylo.

Under the assumption that I'm not lying (roll with it), Gorlak isn't the Neutral. He could still be scum, but that clears up the board a little. The possible-neutral pile of players is 9, but the possible-scum pile of players is still 10.

Out of the ten players, we have one role claim by Monkey; a spirit talker. The rest of the players are basically concealing their roles. This means that, on D3, whatever town cop we've got, if we've even got a town cop, isn't comfortable laying down the green checks to narrow the list of potential scum. For whatever reason.

If we continue to fail tonight and we lynch a town+scum nk's a town, that puts the potential anti-town pile to 4/8. Those aren't exactly good odds for town. D5 would be a 1/2 chance of hitting Scum but our footing would be much more perilous in the endgame than if we were to lynch scum both Tonight and Tomorrow.

We had a lot of claims Yesterday, but the drought of information to work on at this point I think is strangling us. The only way we can win is if we solve the game, otherwise we use a lynch and have a... 1/3.333333-ish???? chance of hitting scum. I can't help but feel like we're being a little bamboozled by scum players right now, and not having got one on D1 or D2 is pretty disheartening.

I'm not really going anywhere with any of this, I'm just laying it out to try to make sense of it all.



I explained it before but I'll re-state it anyway because I'm nice like that sometimes. I targeted Gorlak because I felt like it was possible that, in the case of Gorlak being the Neutral, he might have been smart enough to fake being targeted by himself on the first Night in order to bait players into reacting favourably. It's not exactly a far fetched strategy, but I guess not everyone is outside-of-the-box as I am in terms of potential Mafia strategies, ahaha.
Okay could have been a possibility.

I would really like for Zeke to give us a read. So far he has only lightly questioned the claims but has not given any opinion himself.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Tell me that doesn't sound like Monkey prepping up a bus while taking some heat off a scum mate? Covers all her bases here. The counter argument against Monkey being scum would be "Why would she brazenly make up that role and isn't it a too long and elaborate?" Well no one really seems to be talking about the 'wrong' red check so maybe it wasn't that brazen after all. As for the role, the last time I played Scum it was a role madness game where Febe had a very long and elaborate role that we tweaked a bit to convince everyone he was town. I think it 's possible that a scum Monkey has a similarish role that was also tweaked enough to be both believable and have a high enough error margin that she could safely fake a red check.

I have no idea what kind of reasoning that is not to vote for someone. "Let's not bother voting for this person because they'll slip up eventually if they're scum.". Making this post has me seeing weird connections that might exist but feel too clean to actually be real. Both Gorlak and Monkey talked down the Meatwad vote from Vincent in a sort of weird way. If the three were scum, it feels way too protective for two scum to do that on day 1 but it feels weird. Maybe just seeing things that aren't there.

Y'all are taking this entirely out of context. Yes, on d1 I said that I didn't think Meatwad was a good d1 vote target. And neither of these takes addresses my responses to similar doubt then that it's kind of ridiculous for me to throw myself in front of Meatwad in this way. I mean really, let's think through what Kopite is leading up to:
D1 I say: let's not vote Meatwad today! We'll vote him in the future maybe but not now!
D2 I fake a red check (again I guess to protect Meatwad and also myself) which isn't just a fake check but an elaborate scheme

So in this scenario, for me to continue to put myself on the line for Meatwad, Meatwad has to have a pretty good role, right? Because no offensive to Meatwad here, but I think I'm probably a more valuable scum team member just on the grounds that I have more experience doing it successfully in this community. Do we have any reason for me to do this? It's not a roleblocker. Is it the handprinter? What am I protecting to stack all this?

Not only does this seem ridiculous, but it also seems like a trap, especially with Kopite's post. Now if I continue to not scum read Meatwad, I'm scum; if I scumread Meatwad, I'm also scum. But why would I set up a future bus on someone I've also been protecting?

Neither of this takes into account my reads for today, which I haven't even posted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Doing this without at least checking in to see where I am on Meatwad feels like angling up to make me a target for today. Which, whatever. Shoot your shot. I know I'm in a weird place after yesterday. But that's a weird enough role and position that you don't need to spin a big thing around it.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
So many with the "sentiments" of voting me.......but no actual votes put down.
My willingness to vote there goes down with some of what's been posted in the last five hours, personally.
Okay could have been a possibility.

I would really like for Zeke to give us a read. So far he has only lightly questioned the claims but has not given any opinion himself.
He's reading. He said above where he was. I'd rather he not just start throwing shit out myself.

We're about 12 hours into the day. I'm just voting where my mind is at right now, which everyone should be doing because votes are useful information to look back on. Not trying to push anything through with 1 vote and a fairly weak justification.

This feels off. Generally, I agree with this sentiment, but I honestly don't think I've ever seen this from Kalor before and in this game he's voted exactly once per day and it seemed like a vote, not a check of "where I am right now" vote. I've been feeling not-great about Kalor for a while though so I might as well:

vote: Kalor

Though I've got more things in my notes to hit.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I think scum would want to avoid the Mao vote for that reason. Pre-knowledge of his alignment would make it easy to place votes elsewhere to look innocent, and I think with the suspicion surrounding Mol scum could be confident that town would do the work for them. Without the benefit of knowing Mao's alignment, there were plenty of good reasons to vote for him. And now we also have the benefit of knowing that the info Monkey receives isn't entirely reliable.
I disagree heartily with this. There's no real reason to avoid a vote like that; community meta is pretty forgiving of anyone on a purported red check, even one like what I posted, and Maol's role claim made it easier for people to argue the "we have to check there" angle.

I do not think scum is on the counterwagon at all, too, which means scum is in the Maol voters almost certainly. I'm sure not all scum, as that's a big red flag, but any town lunch is good for scum and it's a vote no one's likely to analyze in a major way. It's an easy place to be and the arguments make themselves.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Why are you so hung up on the idea that I'm secretly the neutral, @Gorlak ? It's like you have the pieces of a puzzle but are trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. It won't fit no matter how hard you try, and if you keep doing it, the puzzle is just gonna break. Let's proceed under the assumption that I'm not the neutral. Three scum and one neutral remaining.

kits, I'm putting this in here separately because I want to make sure you see it and it's not buried. I have questions.

1. How do we know it's a neutral role? Isn't that just speculation at this point?
2. Do we know scum is 3-1?

What we do know is that there's apparently a roleblocker and that there is/was a role switcher (I don't think anyone has claimed being switched today?). If the latter was one-shot it could be part of a JOAT power and a roleblocker is more likely scum, especially if they targeted Gorlak. Since we don't know what the handprint does, we can't say if it's neutral or scum.

So what are you working from?
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
kits, I'm putting this in here separately because I want to make sure you see it and it's not buried. I have questions.

1. How do we know it's a neutral role? Isn't that just speculation at this point?
2. Do we know scum is 3-1?

What we do know is that there's apparently a roleblocker and that there is/was a role switcher (I don't think anyone has claimed being switched today?). If the latter was one-shot it could be part of a JOAT power and a roleblocker is more likely scum, especially if they targeted Gorlak. Since we don't know what the handprint does, we can't say if it's neutral or scum.

So what are you working from?
Numbers. It would be OP if we had four scum and one neutral; 1/3rd of the game would be anti-town. That's a bit too Bastard for Bastard, what with Town roles so far being kind of useless. If Scum have a roleblock and a roleswitcher, that's two powerful-ass roles that Scum have, which means that if Scum were also more than three people it would tip the balance of power a little too far. So my current Game Theory(ha) is three scum and one Neutral. The Neutral probably has a mark-enough-people-and-then-trigger-your-power win con of some sort.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Okay, with this I have to say: I was blocked last night. I'm not sure if this is related to the mark (delayed block?) or if it was because kits blocked me (she targeted me for whatever reason and claims to have wasted her detect shot)

Also I was BLOCKED last night as I said above. You followed that discussion.

Kopite Kalor Fran EzekelRAGE You all have read that too.
I was blocked. Kits targeted me. She came out first though. How does that make you all feel? Where do you lean? Insignificant? Coincidence? Caught scum!kits? What happened here?

I wonder if it could be coincidence. My read on kits leans null - I really don't know where to put her right now - but I think it makes sense for scum to kill Fanto and block you or vice versa. If the handprint is an arsonist-style thing scum might want to keep you alive to see what happens/help narrow the field, so you get blocked and left alone while Fanto is killed. I can see that.

I think the idea that the print is a delayed block is interesting. Could be possible. Not sure. But I think it's more likely you were just blocked, period.

What I do find curious is a handprinter marking you and then Kopite. I would not put Kopite high up in the town reads myself, not like you were, even after d1, so the pair of you being marked is puzzling. If it's a scum power, it's likely the handprints are being put on town. But why you and then Kopite?

I will say this: after Maol's role, I actually doubt it's an arsonist kind of deal. If we already have one player who was going to be auto-removed, an arsonist who could remove a whole chunk feels like a game-ender unless it's a really high number of people. And it looks like no one could remove the print or they would have, I'm sure. So I think it's something else, which means it could be any alignment.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Numbers. It would be OP if we had four scum and one neutral; 1/3rd of the game would be anti-town. That's a bit too Bastard for Bastard, what with Town roles so far being kind of useless. If Scum have a roleblock and a roleswitcher, that's two powerful-ass roles that Scum have, which means that if Scum were also more than three people it would tip the balance of power a little too far. So my current Game Theory(ha) is three scum and one Neutral. The Neutral probably has a mark-enough-people-and-then-trigger-your-power win con of some sort.
The point I'm making is that there's actually no evidence of a neutral whatsoever. And see my follow-up post re: arsonist-style power.

Your whole angle here on numbers depends on a LOT of assumptions, assumptions we don't have evidence of.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Now, if the role-switcher/overwriter is NOT one-shot, then maybe the arsonist idea could work here. It seems like it would have saved Maol from his otherwise certain fate. If it could also overwrite handprints and/or change the role of the arsonist, then maybe?
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,620
My willingness to vote there goes down with some of what's been posted in the last five hours, personally.

He's reading. He said above where he was. I'd rather he not just start throwing shit out myself.



This feels off. Generally, I agree with this sentiment, but I honestly don't think I've ever seen this from Kalor before and in this game he's voted exactly once per day and it seemed like a vote, not a check of "where I am right now" vote. I've been feeling not-great about Kalor for a while though so I might as well:

What are you referring to when you say that you've "never seen this" from me before? The fact that I wanted people to get votes put down or the way I handled my own vote today?
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
The point I'm making is that there's actually no evidence of a neutral whatsoever. And see my follow-up post re: arsonist-style power.

Your whole angle here on numbers depends on a LOT of assumptions, assumptions we don't have evidence of.

Here's the thing. My power has unlimtied shots. An unlimted shot regular cop would be too powerful. Now if you can argue why an unlimited cop power in a game of this size would be balanced, I'd be all ears. But as it stands, it only makes sense to me that my ability is only able to detect the neutral. There is a smaller pool of players that the Neutral could be so the whole unlimited shots thing makes a great deal of sense.

That's not exactly an assumption on my part and it was already litigated back when I revealed my role yesterDay. My role makes the most sense when I think of it as a Neutral detector, and I have to find the neutral before a certain Day or the neutral wins.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Here's the thing. My power has unlimtied shots. An unlimted shot regular cop would be too powerful. Now if you can argue why an unlimited cop power in a game of this size would be balanced, I'd be all ears. But as it stands, it only makes sense to me that my ability is only able to detect the neutral. There is a smaller pool of players that the Neutral could be so the whole unlimited shots thing makes a great deal of sense.

That's not exactly an assumption on my part and it was already litigated back when I revealed my role yesterDay. My role makes the most sense when I think of it as a Neutral detector, and I have to find the neutral before a certain Day or the neutral wins.
Your role detects something. That it's a neutral is your leap in logic and in any other game I'd agree with you, but there are a lot of variables in play (see posts above). It could be another role. It could be scum. It could be something else. So far you've checked the two towniest players in the game so we have no information except that it's not them.

I'm going to have lunch and then I'll get anything I missed and then work on a readlist.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Your role detects something. That it's a neutral is your leap in logic and in any other game I'd agree with you, but there are a lot of variables in play (see posts above). It could be another role. It could be scum.

You're the one in the position of having to present the competing theory, because you're throwing the simplest explination of the facts into doubt. I've already personally ruled out that it's a scum detector because that would be too overpowered. Now, on the slim chance that I'm wrong and I somehow have the most powerful Mafia power I've literally ever seen, if that's the case, I've absolutely kinda fucked up this game? But see, here's the thing. If we assume that, which is absolutely what you're suggesting-- then we have a green check on Gorlak. That's the ultimate conclusion of you trying to push this theory-- which is absolutely what you're doing. The only way to prove you wrong would be for me to """green check""" Scum and have us lynch them.

In a few short words; you're making a lot of assumptions. In fact, you are making far more assumptions than I am. You're overly convoluting this. Bastard doesn't necessitate overly convoluted, not automatically. Now, I'm not you. I'm not willing to make the leap that the simplest answer isn't the correct one. You're going to have to present some evidence to convince me here, or find some reason to suggest that my running theory is as outlandish as you're suggesting. Gesturing at the fact that it's a possibilty doesn't cut it. Not if you're actually trying to solve the game. There has to be a purpose behind throwing doubt on something that seems pretty clear cut.
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,029
Question for anyone - has anything other than monkey's read on mao been chocked up to a switcher?

I'm at dau 2 around post 600ish. It seems the switcher narrative is being pushed as a possibility.

4 flips and all prs wouldn't be affected by a switcher.

There is most likely no switcher/redirect in this game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Right, Dr. Monkey onkey I'm gonna need a full claim and your explanation for why you check Fandorin's _post_ with a question, when we already knew that Mao's alignment was a lie. Why could you target Mao, why Fandorin? It's not related to votes. Neither last nor first, neither most nor least vote switches. It's unrelated to post numbers. It has nothting to do with claims either.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
If I don't reply to questions for the next like 7 hours it'll be because I'm finally sleeping orz
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
You're the one in the position of having to present the competing theory, because you're throwing the simplest explination of the facts into doubt. I've already personally ruled out that it's a scum detector because that would be too overpowered. Now, on the slim chance that I'm wrong and I somehow have the most powerful Mafia power I've literally ever seen, if that's the case, I've absolutely kinda fucked up this game? But see, here's the thing. If we assume that, which is absolutely what you're suggesting-- then we have a green check on Gorlak. That's the ultimate conclusion of you trying to push this theory-- which is absolutely what you're doing. The only way to prove you wrong would be for me to """green check""" Scum and have us lynch them.

In a few short words; you're making a lot of assumptions. In fact, you are making far more assumptions than I am. You're overly convoluting this. Bastard doesn't necessitate overly convoluted, not automatically. Now, I'm not you. I'm not willing to make the leap that the simplest answer isn't the correct one. You're going to have to present some evidence to convince me here, or find some reason to suggest that my running theory is as outlandish as you're suggesting. Gesturing at the fact that it's a possibilty doesn't cut it. Not if you're actually trying to solve the game. There has to be a purpose behind throwing doubt on something that seems pretty clear cut.
I don't have a competing theory. I am trying to lay out what we know versus assumptions so that as we get information, we can add to it. This is how I solve.

I think you're right in that you're less likely to be just a scum detector. Where I struggle, as I said, is in thinking this is an arsonist situation, knowing what we do about Maol's role and automated death. That + removing 3-4-5 people from the game in one chunk is a LOT. Maol himself already could have thrown the game if he'd just died d4. Adding an arsonist to that feels wildly imbalanced, even knowing that an arsonist could hit both town and scum, especially if there's no cure/if the only cure was a possibly one-shot role changer.

So what I'ms saying is: I think that your role detects something else. It may be a different flavor of neutral. It may be characters marked in another way. We don't have enough information from flips or anything else. For instance: am I a spooky thing? I have a connection to the other side. Would Maol have been a spooky thing? He was marked for death. For all we know the spooky thing may just be a way to help confirm role claims.

Have you commented on my suggestion that an arsonist+Maol is too swingy? Because that's the crux of my argument.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
What are you referring to when you say that you've "never seen this" from me before? The fact that I wanted people to get votes put down or the way I handled my own vote today?
I am saying - as I said - that this doesn't fit with your votes in this game so far AND I don't recall you taking this kind of "lead" in games we've played before. It stands out on both fronts.
Question for anyone - has anything other than monkey's read on mao been chocked up to a switcher?

I'm at dau 2 around post 600ish. It seems the switcher narrative is being pushed as a possibility.

4 flips and all prs wouldn't be affected by a switcher.

There is most likely no switcher/redirect in this game.
It does not look at this point like I was hit by a switcher and I haven't seen any other evidence/indication of one.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Right, Dr. Monkey onkey I'm gonna need a full claim and your explanation for why you check Fandorin's _post_ with a question, when we already knew that Mao's alignment was a lie. Why could you target Mao, why Fandorin? It's not related to votes. Neither last nor first, neither most nor least vote switches. It's unrelated to post numbers. It has nothting to do with claims either.
I really don't want to, because it is related to game actions, but if we want to agree that my role is pretty useless after all, then I will reveal it, since it won't matter.

We didn't already know at that point that Maol's alignment result was a lie and I floated the idea, no one really argued against it, and it gave us something to work with - either the answers are wrong (from Natiko & wrong) or they are coming from dead/spec and filtered through Natiko for formal phrasing.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Btw before I go to bed-- I have mentioned before that I am an "oddity" detector, but we all just latched onto spooky thing because it rolled off the tongue better. And also kind of means the same thing.

Secondly, Scum know their team size. If they consist of four and are smart, I would have been nk'd last Night. But I wasn't. Erego, Scum have outed themselves as a three team party and the neutral is pretty much confirmed.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Right, Dr. Monkey onkey I'm gonna need a full claim and your explanation for why you check Fandorin's _post_ with a question, when we already knew that Mao's alignment was a lie. Why could you target Mao, why Fandorin? It's not related to votes. Neither last nor first, neither most nor least vote switches. It's unrelated to post numbers. It has nothting to do with claims either.
OH, I see what you're saying - you're saying that by the time I asked, we knew Maol's alignment. Gotcha. I was thinking that during discussion of if I should do this. I went ahead and asked because I figured it would help us get a sense of where my answers come from.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Did Kits just float the numbers discussion? Like THE thing I was so suspicious for at D1?
I'm not really going anywhere with any of this, I'm just laying it out to try to make sense of it all.
Could you try to go somewhere with your thoughts other than trying to put yourself as confirmed town?

What we do know is that there's apparently a roleblocker and that there is/was a role switcher (I don't think anyone has claimed being switched today?)
WTF? Who talked about a switcher? Did anyone agree to that theory? Where is this coming from? ???

Which is it monkey? Above or rather this one? Some lie?
I really don't want to, because it is related to game actions, but if we want to agree that my role is pretty useless after all, then I will reveal it, since it won't matter.

We didn't already know at that point that Maol's alignment result was a lie and I floated the idea, no one really argued against it, and it gave us something to work with - either the answers are wrong (from Natiko & wrong) or they are coming from dead/spec and filtered through Natiko for formal phrasing.
You knew Mao's alignment was a lie at the start of the night. What are you saying?
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,013
Btw before I go to bed-- I have mentioned before that I am an "oddity" detector, but we all just latched onto spooky thing because it rolled off the tongue better. And also kind of means the same thing.

Secondly, Scum know their team size. If they consist of four and are smart, I would have been nk'd last Night. But I wasn't. Erego, Scum have outed themselves as a three team party and the neutral is pretty much confirmed.
Your role could be detecting just one scum member, perhaps based on their flavor.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Your role could be detecting just one scum member, perhaps based on their flavor.
I thought about this but the fact that I'm still alive when I have revealed everything about my role to the point they would have noticed runs counter to this.


Could you try to go somewhere with your thoughts other than trying to put yourself as confirmed town?
I'm sorry for trying to understand the status of the game.