Town lean. I think her progression this phase on the claim has some blind spots, but she feels sincere and I don't think she would fake claim like she did.
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Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
I'm town. If you mislunch me today (or if we mislunch someone else), we're looking at 4 townies dead going into D3. If you mislunch both D3 and D4, that's 8 dead townies. If there's 4 scum, game over anyway regardless if I die too or not.
However, I'm not dying end of D4 anymore, so that changes things. I get that town will have to lunch me today to get critical info on whether or not there's a way to change roles in this game. But it's not a mark against me that I wasn't considering the numbers earlier. I was considering the numbers, it's bad for town to mislunch that long either way.
Okay, can you give me similar short answers on kits, Mao, Fran and Fat4All?
Possible if I dont think about her claim, but with that, and the info about you being targeted with the handprint, her role seems to interact with whoever did that to you based on flavor, and I would assume Town there.
Off my break now so it might be a bit before I respond again.
Same as above basically. After all of these interactions how do you feel about Mao and Fran. Is doggo connected or did Mao take that chance to attach someone to him?
Furthermore how do you feel about Kalor at this point? I'm getting worried about the low posters, because we've been off so far and I'm not that confident in a Mao scum flip.
Okay, I've read everything twice and I really don't even know what to say. But here's a question:
Per this + your claim, someone changed your whole role in a way that would have saved you?
So if this is true, we have someone who can fully overwrite roles. If Maol is scum, that's certainly not a scum power, but if my info is wrong and he's town I don't know if we can say for sure either way.
I would second this and add:
When you get here, some more insight, reads, something would be really helpful.
Dr. Monkey what do you make of Mao's claim? If you read from there up to his change of story, is that plausible to you?
From towniest to scummiest:
Town
Kits
Fat4All
Fran
Mao
Scum
****
Feel confident on putting Kits as town now. I like her contributions even without getting into a mechanics argument regarding her as a counter to the "handprinter".
Fat4All's take on Monkey was fresh and felt sincere, like I mentioned earlier. Didn't pay much mind to him before that, but nothing jumped out to me and he seems alright. I remember getting bothered about his lack of vote during D1, but didn't go back to look for the implications so far.
Fran is a bit harder to read. A town lean and in the middle of a "could vote but probably not" list, but a notch down from last phase. I'll go over his latest posts later.
I don't think Mao needs to go this phase despite all the mess, and like my previous posts with him, I generally liked his progression on Monkey this phase. At first, when the discussion was mostly Gorlak x Monkey, Maol seemed content to sit on the sidelines sorta hoping for an escalation, but him backing off his scum read on Monkey and the "double claim" timing don't feel fake to me.
You know, I just really don't fucking know at this point.
I'm a medium who may not be a medium.
kits is maybe a backpack?
Maol, best case, is a mess regardless.
But I've now read it all three times and it's the initial claim that I'm really struggling with. Like it's actually plausible but the way Maol went about it feels really out of character and completely opposite to the way he's approached the whole game so far, but I feel like invoking Natiko correcting him means there's at least some grain of truth in there somewhere. That doesn't seem like something he would make up.
So I guess I come to this: I do believe there was a change to his role of some short. I do not know if the initial role is real or fake claim, nor do I feel confident with regard to his alignment. So I'm back to the board on how many roles potentially targeted Maol last night versus other powers/targets just as away to try to ferret some of this out.
If Fran is scum, I think Meatwad is scum. Fran's early vote could be a bus, and Meatwad has been pretty comfortable today riding the "Mao looks scummy" line. Monkey had an odd defense of Meatwad as well in D1, but it's difficult for me to wrap my head around Monkey being scum, so if MEatwad flips scum, I don't think her defense of him should be held against her.
VA is a big, fat old shrug. Nothing to work with. Could easily be scum laying low or uninterested townie.
I haven't had much of a change of heart on my Fran and Maol views. At this point, I'm going back-and-forth, but I'm confident my vote will land on one of them.
I'll respond to this more in full when I get home because I'll want to reread some things and probably grab some quotes too.
What makes you think Fran could be Scum here? I havent really felt too bad about him, could be that I just find myself agreeing with him a decent amount though, and playing catch up a lot instead of being around more often has kind of messed with my ability to put some good reads down. I really need to reread some of the stuff from today again.
I'll get a full read list down when I get home. I'm on lunch now so I'll be around for a bit if anyone is around and wants to chat.
Do you still want to follow your check on Mao for your vote today? I've been holding off voting because I still think that's what I want to do, Mao was already on my suspect list coming into the day before your claim, and things have been very strange with his claims and stuff too, so I feel that is still the flip I want to see most.
I feel like at this point it's the path to the most information but I'm really frustrated that we have at least a third of the game chilling on the sidelines and we're gonna need to light a fire under some asses tomorrow. It's too easy for them to sit by today.
But a Maol flip gives us:
information on my role
information on a potential role switcher
information on Maol himself
So it's a lot of clues and trails to follow. But I really don't know how I feel about Maol himself.
But a Maol flip gives us:
information on my role
information on a potential role switcher
information on Maol himself
So it's a lot of clues and trails to follow. But I really don't know how I feel about Maol himself.
I will light some fires under some asses when I get home, but yeah it's kind of hard for me to want to leave this stuff unresolved for the day at this point, so I dont know how much pressure I can apply really when Mao is still where my vote will most likely end up.
==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start
Maolfunction (2 votes)
Dr. Monkey - #508 #517
Kitsunelaine - #797
Kalor - #864
Fran (1 votes)
Maolfunction - #832
Kalor (1 votes)
Gorlak - #833
Gorlak (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #655 #797
Dr. Monkey (0 votes)
Gorlak - #509 #513
Not voting: Fat4all, Kopite, Fantomas, Fran, Meatwad, Vincent Alexander, malus, Fandorin, Dr. Monkey
Post Counts:
Kitsunelaine: 76 Gorlak: 64 Fat4all: 57 Dr. Monkey: 44 Maolfunction: 34 Fantomas: 32 Fandorin: 32 Fran: 29 Vincent Alexander: 15 Meatwad: 8 Kopite: 8 Kalor: 8 malus: 2
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
Maolfunction (2 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #797
Kalor - #864
Fran (1 votes)
Maolfunction - #832
Kalor (1 votes)
Gorlak - #833
Gorlak (0 votes)
Dr. Monkey (0 votes)
Not voting: Fat4all, Kopite, Fantomas, Fran, Meatwad, Vincent Alexander, malus, Fandorin, Dr. Monkey
Post Counts:
Kitsunelaine: 76 Gorlak: 64 Fat4all: 57 Dr. Monkey: 44 Maolfunction: 34 Fantomas: 32 Fandorin: 32 Fran: 29 Vincent Alexander: 15 Meatwad: 8 Kopite: 8 Kalor: 8 malus: 2
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Dr. Monkey Fantomas Both of you have run games before, do you really think that a review team would allow a role where a player start the game with a death sentence? Even more, do you really think that NATIKO would use that role?
It's hard to say since I only have the one experience so far and LiS wasn't too Bastard though in hindsight it was kind of on the edge with some of the roles. That being said though, I do think that death sentence role claim was quite odd and definitely not one that sounds fun to play with. Is there anything similar anyone has seen before in a game?
I know you didn't ask me, but yes, absolutely. It might not make a ton of sense now, but we aren't seeing the full picture of what roles are out there and how they interact with one another. But we did have someone whose role let them survive a day after dying. Thematically, that flip gels with the idea of a death sentence. However, I still think it is damn good cover for scum because Day 4 is pretty far into a game with this many/few players.
I forget specific instances but I've definitely seen similar stuff before. Though I think it was usually in larger games where one person disappearing wouldn't be as important compared to this game.
Well, it depends.
Yes, especially if there's a way to remove it - and it looks like there is at least one way, if Maol's claim about hated is legit. In DS, there's also a way to stave off the effects of timefall so it's possible that there's a counter, like a firefighter or some shit. But if he's the only one, that's unlikely.
It feels like a role someone should absolutely play in a way that baits a night kill. Maol said he hoped for that. But I don't see that in his play d1, either (d2 is a wash, obviously, for 1392394 reasons).
Where I do have questions is the d4 business but it's hard to untangle where I think about that on balance and where I think about that with regard to how Maol brought it up.
Difference between the two roles? Sure. Thematically though? I don't think so. Death Stranding is a game focused on life and death. I think when you die in the game, you don't even really die. It fits that Nat would pick out some unique roles tied to life and death, like a death sentence.
While I'm at it, I might as well post this quote that I'm sure most have already read from Kojima himself:
It wouldn't surprise me if Nat referenced this quote from time-to-time when designing this game.
Ok going to put down some reads while they're on my mind, While I'm trying to do my schoolwork
Monkey: Her Roleclaim is odd for sure, but she's been engaging people. answering questions in a way that seems honest to me, and despite coming in with a red check on Mao hasn't pushed for a turbo against him. Monkey is a strong town lean imo
Fantomas, has been very active and genuinely seems like he wants to solve the game, Strong town lean
Kitsulane, not sure, her roleclaim is strange, I'm not sure what to make of it to be honest, she seems genuine otherwise. Slight town lean
Fat4All Seems to be a Blarg style player, Funny but difficult to read. Null
Fran, Fran is historically hard for me to read. He makes some good arguments and appears helpful but the last time I thought I had him pegged I turned out to be wrong Fran lean
Gorlak came off suspicious EOD 1 with the Fran vote and his animus towards Monkey and Fran but seems to be genuinely engaged now. Null
Fandoran, has been intent on tunneling me for some reason. I would like an explanation of why out of all the players in this game he's so focused on me. Has yet to present a solid case. Kinda comes off as trying to get a train going on a weak player. Slight scum lean.
Mao, I don't think I buy Mao's claim of being a doomed townie and then suddenly having his role change to be hated townie. I don't know why he claimed that in the first place but it seems like he realized his claim wouldn't work if he didn't die so he had to change it. He's played mostly defensively and hasn't shown much interest in scum hunting. He hasn't done anything to make me think the red check Monkey received is a mistake. Scum lean
Others: I'll have to go back and reread their posts to come up with a solid lead. There are some people that have fallen into my blind spot, So that's all my reads for now
Monkey: Her Roleclaim is odd for sure, but she's been engaging people. answering questions in a way that seems honest to me, and despite coming in with a red check on Mao hasn't pushed for a turbo against him. Monkey is a strong town lean imo
Fantomas, has been very active and genuinely seems like he wants to solve the game, Strong town lean
Kitsulane, not sure, her roleclaim is strange, I'm not sure what to make of it to be honest, she seems genuine otherwise. Slight town lean
Fat4All Seems to be a Blarg style player, Funny but difficult to read. Null
Fran, Fran is historically hard for me to read. He makes some good arguments and appears helpful but the last time I thought I had him pegged I turned out to be wrong Fran lean
Gorlak came off suspicious EOD 1 with the Fran vote and his animus towards Monkey and Fran but seems to be genuinely engaged now. Null
Fandoran, has been intent on tunneling me for some reason. I would like an explanation of why out of all the players in this game he's so focused on me. Has yet to present a solid case. Kinda comes off as trying to get a train going on a weak player. Slight scum lean.
Mao, I don't think I buy Mao's claim of being a doomed townie and then suddenly having his role change to be hated townie. I don't know why he claimed that in the first place but it seems like he realized his claim wouldn't work if he didn't die so he had to change it. He's played mostly defensively and hasn't shown much interest in scum hunting. He hasn't done anything to make me think the red check Monkey received is a mistake. Scum lean
Others: I'll have to go back and reread their posts to come up with a solid lead. There are some people that have fallen into my blind spot, So that's all my reads for now
Just an FYI, but a player who has a passive death attached to their role is absolutely a thing in mafia games.
I think we're going to need folks to start dropping votes in order to light fires. I need to find other reads outside of Fran and Maol, and with how discussions are going, I'm not gettin' there. (My scum lean on Fran is purely EoD 1 in answer to a previous question).
VOTE: Maolfunction
Parking a vote for now on one of the two. Heading out to parent teacher conference and stuff, then I'll be back tonight.
I too am out for parenting shit for a while - elder has first band concert. I'll be significantly less available tonight/tomorrow, as I have interview prep, but I'll check in.
Just putting it out there for people who are unfamiliar with the concept, wasn't answering a question.
The question was whether a review team would allow such a role, and I think it helps support the idea they would by showing the role exists and has been used in games before. I wasn't even aware of the role until Maol posted.
OKay. I'm really out now.
There are lots of roles that exist that don't get used often here. But I do think speculating on what a gamerunner would/wouldn't do is probably a path to madness. We are so often wrong when we do that.
Sorry for ghosting, I had a rough day and was in a bad place for a bit.
A role that can completely override another role seems kind of OP. That would basically be a super roleblock.
Maols claim sound a lot like his fake claim in HvV2 where he went with his experience from another place without considering the local meta.
The only way I could imagine his claim making sense is if his role already contains a switch from being doomed to being hated, but at day start he explicitly said that he was targeted by another player.
A role that can completely override another role seems kind of OP. That would basically be a super roleblock.
Maols claim sound a lot like his fake claim in HvV2 where he went with his experience from another place without considering the local meta.
The only way I could imagine his claim making sense is if his role already contains a switch from being doomed to being hated, but at day start he explicitly said that he was targeted by another player.
Sorry to hear that, hope you're feeling better. <3
-----
Just got home, but I do have a few errands to run quick, but once I've done that and after I eat, I will sit down and put together an actual read list finally.
Town
Monkey
Kits
Fran
Gorlak
Fandorin
Vincent
Meatwad
Malus
Kopite
Fat4All
Kalor
Maolfunction
Scum
That's where my feelings are at right now just by trying to piece my thoughts together finally by staring at the roster while I was eating.
Monkey and Kits, I buy the claims as Town ones, especially Monkey's. I'd be willing to re-evaluate on Kits in the future but unless some real shenanigans start going down, Monkey is Town and I'm going to try my best to not let my mind tell me otherwise!
Fran and Gorlak are both pretty active, asking good questions, explaining their reads. Gorlak I'm maybe less sure on for now, but Fran seems pretty damn Townie though to me, I'm not really understanding the Scum reads on him that some people have, so if anyone wants to walk me through those, please do.
Fandorin is where things start to get muddier, I'd like to assume he's Town just because he seems like he's Town, but I told myself the same thing in HvV2 when I had some early thoughts about him being Scum, and he was! So I know already that he can fool me if I get complacent there, and I want to continue looking into him more closely. All that being said, leaning Town on him at the moment.
Vincent, Meatwad, Malus is the Null Zone. Meta is pretty much all that's keeping them ahead of some of those who I think are more likely to be Scum at this point.
After that, we get into the Process of Elimination area finally. Kopite and Kalor, they were suspects of mine coming into the day due to D1 votes and, in Kalor's case for sure, definitely inhabiting the Shadow Lurker status in my mind by now.
Fat4All has basically worked his way down here because I find it difficult to get a good read on him, and there's nothing here that isn't necessarily reminding me of his Scum play in LB3, so he gets put in the PoE. Maybe I should spend some time rereading some of his game related posts though, but it really feels like he hasn't given us much to work with at all even though he's made plenty of posts.
And then Mao is just the flip I kind of need here at this point. There's way too much weirdness surrounding him today, with whatever info Monkey received and his double claim and the strange behavior and all that, so yeah, I just kind of need that flip to keep going here I think.
Monkey
Kits
Fran
Gorlak
Fandorin
Vincent
Meatwad
Malus
Kopite
Fat4All
Kalor
Maolfunction
Scum
That's where my feelings are at right now just by trying to piece my thoughts together finally by staring at the roster while I was eating.
Monkey and Kits, I buy the claims as Town ones, especially Monkey's. I'd be willing to re-evaluate on Kits in the future but unless some real shenanigans start going down, Monkey is Town and I'm going to try my best to not let my mind tell me otherwise!
Fran and Gorlak are both pretty active, asking good questions, explaining their reads. Gorlak I'm maybe less sure on for now, but Fran seems pretty damn Townie though to me, I'm not really understanding the Scum reads on him that some people have, so if anyone wants to walk me through those, please do.
Fandorin is where things start to get muddier, I'd like to assume he's Town just because he seems like he's Town, but I told myself the same thing in HvV2 when I had some early thoughts about him being Scum, and he was! So I know already that he can fool me if I get complacent there, and I want to continue looking into him more closely. All that being said, leaning Town on him at the moment.
Vincent, Meatwad, Malus is the Null Zone. Meta is pretty much all that's keeping them ahead of some of those who I think are more likely to be Scum at this point.
After that, we get into the Process of Elimination area finally. Kopite and Kalor, they were suspects of mine coming into the day due to D1 votes and, in Kalor's case for sure, definitely inhabiting the Shadow Lurker status in my mind by now.
Fat4All has basically worked his way down here because I find it difficult to get a good read on him, and there's nothing here that isn't necessarily reminding me of his Scum play in LB3, so he gets put in the PoE. Maybe I should spend some time rereading some of his game related posts though, but it really feels like he hasn't given us much to work with at all even though he's made plenty of posts.
And then Mao is just the flip I kind of need here at this point. There's way too much weirdness surrounding him today, with whatever info Monkey received and his double claim and the strange behavior and all that, so yeah, I just kind of need that flip to keep going here I think.
OP
OP
Had it started on Friday and gone through Sunday I probably would've extended it to Monday. Since it's starting on Saturday and going to Monday I'll probably leave it alone. If it's a ghost town I might extend it to Tuesday, but I'm hoping that won't be needed.
Hello, If you had to vote right at this moment who would it be? I'm personally leaning towards Mao myself, Because of the strange nature of his roleclaim, the fact that he only seems to appear to defend himself, and seems set on the idea Fran is scum without considering other possibilities, and then there's the red check Monkey says she got.
Seems like the safest bet imo. Thoughts?
Seems like the safest bet imo. Thoughts?
Yes, as I stated above in my read list, Mao is who I would like to vote for today for basically all of the same reasons.
The more interesting question to ask, in my opinion, is who would you want to vote if we couldn't vote for Mao today? My answer would be Kalor.
When you are reviewing a game flavour doesn't matter. Even more, reviewers usually aren't told the flavour of the game (I never was at least).
It does but we never used it because most or all reviewers would consider it shitty to the player who got the role. Maybe one of the crazy gamerunners like Geno but we are talking about Natiko here. He doesn't go for those kind of roles.
This is about the thing that I explained and you said that now you understood why I said it and kind of agreeded with me?
Why Kopite? I have nothing on him so another point of view could help.
I'm here. What do you want to talk about?