This is also an issue I have with Monkey's play. It's controlling behavior. It's impossible to not talk about this now, it's gonna take up a good chunk of the day talking about this which means town has less time to talk about other things.I feel kinda weird about Dr. Monkey opening today with their red-check moment one.
Sure, they opened it with the caveats of "lets not be too hasty with this info", but it's still something that colors the conversation of the day from the get-go.
I'm not sure if this is consistant with Dr's play, but I'd probably want to sit on that info for a bit before dropping it into the conversation, see if people say stuff that makes them slip up or gives something away.
Especially if Dr's ability can be used again (tho I do recognise they said it was limited to some degree)
I haven't read them. I'm not ignoring it, I just don't know what those developments are. Is there a particular post number I should read from?Maolfunction I'm wondering why you are ignoring developments before your wagon picked up.
Do you think Fran and monkey are w/w here?
There was reasoning attached though, to spice things up at EoD, that vote moved you into contention, and others either joined or avoided it, which is something we can consider now today knowing that Turm was Town. I don't like keeping my vote alone at EoD and no one was interested in joining me for a Kalor vote.Also I don't think I can let this vote slide, Fanto. It came late in the day and there's no reasoning attached to it. And you didn't seem to lean scum on me earlier in the day, so I'd really like to know what you were doing here.
I'm not a fan of Mao's interactions with Monkey most recently, I also read that post as saying that he would prefer seeing me, Monkey, or Fran up for the vote but lamenting that others wouldn't go there.
Well, out of the players with more than one vote on them, I would prefer going for either Turmoil or Mao as of this moment.
I'll put a vote on Mao just to spice things up.
Vote: Maolfunction
I thought this was a really good post by Ketkat (RIP). However, Maol's reactions afterwards came off towny. It's just a matter if you think these posts are....TOO towny? My paranoia is landing me on too towny.
Insane cop means they get opposite results, so Town shows as Scum and vice versa. I think paranoid is like, if they get targeted then their results are opposite, or something like that. Blarg had a role like that in Conspiracy.
I think Fran voted turmoil to guarantee that he was the lunch. There was no need really to do it, turmoil was already leading when Fran switched his vote. His vote just cemented it.
when we already have both Fran and Dr. Monkey as pretty solid lines to pursue right now.
Are you trying to imply scum pushed the wagon away from Meatwad onto us because he's scum? If so, I can buy that once I reread the day and see if that's what happened.
When I flip town, what does town get from it other than Monkey doesn't look good?
OK, so one mafia targeted me, that's one player accounted for. Is there a scum role out there that would alter Monkey's check on me if another player targeted her? How lucky for scum that that role hit a player with investigative capabilities. And I believe you said you were targeted so that's a third mafian with a power? If a mafian can control the results of another player, that sounds pretty powerful. I'm starting to believe there's only 3 mafians in this game if that's all true.So to clear my head a bit, here is where I was at after turmoil's flip:
Monkey is defo scum. In this world Meatwad is more likely to be hear partner, monkey pushed turmoil to 5, when Meatwad was brought up. Third member is open. Maybe Fantomas: equalising Mao with Meatwad and enabling the wagon with by his standards meager reasoning. These two posts here: were everything you said on that matter. This is very un-Fantomas. Would you mind explaining your thought on that today?
If Monkey somehow doesn't turn out to be scum, that would open up a world in which Fran is likely scum. I don't see Monkey and Fran on the same team at this point.
Furthermore I was convinced that turmoil, mao and me shared the same townish feeling and thus tried to change to lynch together.
Well, that opening and the check blur the lines here though.
Back at home now, but only for a moment before I head out the door again, but see above when I explained the vote to Mao, and I will also gladly explain more in full, with quotes, what my thoughts were at the time in a bit after I've run errands and eaten some food.This is very un-Fantomas. Would you mind explaining your thought on that today?
This, to me when I first read it, was Mao saying that he has lines to pursue on myself, Monkey, and Fran, but that he doesn't see wagons forming on them so he isn't going to go there. This would mean to me that Mao would be Scum reading us, or at least expressing that he has thoughts there he wants to explore but considering he's talking about wagons and lunch viability, I took it to mean that he wanted to vote there, but others wouldn't, so he wasn't going to.May as well put out that I'd be okay voting VA or Meatwad at this point, everyone else is a toss up. There's no player yet that's established themselves in my mind as not being lunch viable to me, but obviously I don't see wagons forming on players like Monkey, Fanto or Fran at this point so I'm not going to pursue those sort of lines.
Mao responds like this:So if I'm understanding this, your reads right now are:
Fanto
Fran
me
=scum
(If I'm wrong here, let me know, because that's sure how it reads.)
You are not understanding that correctly at all. A common trend with me it appears. Is it gonna be a running theme with you this game that I constantly have to tell you to stop putting words in my mouth? My position is that I would not be opposed to voting all three of you if a good reason for it surfaced and people were so inclined to vote that way. Nothing you all have done today is an alignment tell, so I wouldn't mind voting players that I have, at best a neutral lean on. That whole sentiment was just me saying there are no players I lean town.
Yeesh, that's pretty defensive, and definitely trying to toss some implied suspicion at Monkey for like, nothing really?Not particularly a fan of Monkey here making posts implying that the reading comprehension required to understand my thoughts needs to be absurdly high.
I read it the same way, and then he just kind of makes it like it's this thing that Monkey is trying to make him seem bad, probably because she's Scum! Like, ok, so if I had been around and able to quote you immediately, I would have probably asked the same thing.I'm not a fan of Mao's interactions with Monkey most recently, I also read that post as saying that he would prefer seeing me, Monkey, or Fran up for the vote but lamenting that others wouldn't go there.
It is both limited and unusual - very not a traditional cop. It's a take I've never seen before, which again, is why I was reticent to speculate on scum powers on d1. I also had no idea how it would play out. But to answer this and both Gorlak's question about future usefulness, because of the way my power is limited, a full reveal could very well impact flow of the game and I'm not willing to do that. I dunno what else to say about it there. You'll see why I did it this way when I flip and it no longer matters, but all I can do is play the best I can with what I have.I feel kinda weird about Dr. Monkey opening today with their red-check moment one.
Sure, they opened it with the caveats of "lets not be too hasty with this info", but it's still something that colors the conversation of the day from the get-go.
I'm not sure if this is consistant with Dr's play, but I'd probably want to sit on that info for a bit before dropping it into the conversation, see if people say stuff that makes them slip up or gives something away.
Especially if Dr's ability can be used again (tho I do recognise they said it was limited to some degree)
in regard to this point, it becomes less complicated if one of them are scum because that just means one is lyingif Dr. Monkey or Maol is scum then this becomes less complicated and less likely that scum just shot the moon
And now that I have the time to expand on this some more and not much else is going on, I will!What I did do was stare at the vote tool for a bit this morning and just try to pick out where the Scum votes probably were.
My list right now of suspicious voters is:
Kalor
Kits
Kopite
However, they are probably not all Scum.
The other suspicious parties I would say are:
One of Fran and Monkey, because I don't think they are together if one of them is Scum.
Fandorin, but less likely if Monkey is Scum.
Possibly Mao, but again, probably not with Monkey.
I'll dive into things more when I get home. For now, don't trust Monkey, watch her closely, she might be Scum.
I can't tell for sure though because trying to get a read on Kalor's poker face is basically a meme in this community now. Congrats Kalor, welcome to the meme club!I've been busy since the game started but I should be more active today.
Vote: turmoil7
Reading through, Turmoil has felt a bit distant in some of their posts. It may just be because it's day 1 but it feels like acting rather than genuine town play.
I wanted to have a vote down, and I decided to vote Fat4All because of his relatively little contribution to the game. I don't think he's the only one but Im happy to leave my vote there. And while he's apparently not Blarglike he's done an excellent impression so far with all the fluff posting.
I'm also quoting this post because "butt'o'clock" made me laugh then and made me laugh again just now when reading back lol.Top two candidates for lunch are Gorlak and Turmoil. There's pushing the game and then there's weird hangups over things and both folks are the latter trying to look like the former. With that, I'mma head to bed because it's butt'o'clock in the morning. Probably won't be awake before day end.
that would kind of assume they knew you had an ability that could target othersI guess there could have been a target on me to fuck up my results and that might be more likely than a modifier on me. I kinda wanna draw a chart to see possible permutations.
Eh, we've had some misdirect/redirect/disruption roles before that were town, or at least one-off abilities given to town, so I wouldn't immediately jump to it being a scum thing but I do agree this is the least likely scenario regardless.that would kind of assume they knew you had an ability that could target others
i doubt scum would gain that sort of insight before being able to use any abilities on their own
if your ability was misdirected, it would've had to of been out of luck, or a hunch (which is just luck you call ahead of time)
Maol said he's not a miller and that's the kind of thing most folks would want to claim early anyway.In my last bastard game I was a cop and I targeted someone who's ability was to come up as a red check despite not being scum if targeted by a cop. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but it's important to keep in mind anyway.
Ah, I missed this. Thanks for bringing that up!Maol said he's not a miller and that's the kind of thing most folks would want to claim early anyway.
And I believe you said you were targeted so that's a third mafian with a power?
You do too so same question to you. And I know you addressed this in posts I'm getting to below but do you really think if I'm scum I'm partnered with Meatwad and openly redirect in the way that's been proposed and then follow up with some wild gambit that will only get me killed d3 and cause any connections I have to be scrutinized further? In this scenario you've drawn up, I'm making wild, open risks that will almost certainly be caught, all to ostensibly save Meatwad. I mean, I like Meatie and all but that's unlikely at best. Really think that through for a second: do I, in this game, openly throw everything to protect Meatwad? Especially it's likely you would campaign for Meatwad to be killed right after me in this scenario?Maolfunction You seem to be set on monkey = scum. Who is she partnered with?
Nah, you tried to make a big fuzz out of nothing with at minimum two town players.
I did. There's a difference between you not liking my answer and me not answering (and you not liking my play choices doesn't automatically make me scum, either). Here's what I said:You didn't answer my question about him though. What did you think of his EoD play there.
do you think he was a good choice as a candidate, which your post made him be
I find Maolfunction cagey in general. He doesn't seem to directly answer a lot of questions and things like "my flip would be useful for town" can be offered straightforward or as manipulation. It's why I chose him from my limited pool of targets. Had I been free to choose anyone, he wouldn't have been my choice.
Answered above. As for the other, I think this is actually a really good example of the disconnect between us. It's another instance in which I've said two things and you've fixated on one rather than both. Yes, I would like to keep being useful, as I have an information role. I don't really know why I need to justify that. But the other thing I said, which you didn't bring into this post, is that the full reveal of my role (the weird twist on it) could impact the flow of the game in negative ways, which I want to avoid.Dr. Monkey I think I need to hear more about why you chose Mao. You fear to not be ever useful again... in a 15 person game, after you claim to have a red check. How much more useful do you expect to be?
I am here for the next like two hours or so before I go to bed and am happy to discuss anything with anyone btw.
Doesn't have to be about this red check business, anything else.
Are those suspicious voters in any particular order? I agree on Kalor's vote which felt very safe and off note coming from the previous disconnected posts from him, but I'm fine with Kopite and Kitsu's votes.And now that I have the time to expand on this some more and not much else is going on, I will!
Kalor's vote stuck out to me as being a pretty sneaky one on Turmoil:
I can't tell for sure though because trying to get a read on Kalor's poker face is basically a meme in this community now. Congrats Kalor, welcome to the meme club!
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Kopite's vote also stuck out to me as being a pretty safe vote that didn't require him to take a stance on Turmoil or anyone else up for the vote at the time. The only vote on Fat was Ket's joke vote at the time. His reasoning given for it below:
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Then we have Kits, who put down a very early vote on Gorlak and specifically said she was fine with keeping it there, but she also gave Turmoil a shoutout.
I'm also quoting this post because "butt'o'clock" made me laugh then and made me laugh again just now when reading back lol.
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For the others, I will try to be a bit more simplified just to keep this post from being too huge!
Fran and Monkey are the "paranoia tells me they can't both be Town, but they also can't both be Scum" suspicions.
I wasn't a fan of Fando's vote for Meatwad, and even though he clarified above that he was busy for EoD and would have moved elsewhere, it still looked like a suspicious vote to me.
And then, well, I've already talked about Mao now today, so I can refer you all to my previous post.
Yeah, as much as I don't think Monkey would do this as Scum, if Mao were to flip as Town, it would happen. Anytime I've seen a red check turn up false around here, the person who gave it to the room got lunched the next day. Maybe Monkey could buy herself an extra day, but she would be gone eventually without a doubt.I think Maol is the only one considering that Monkey wouldn't be lynched if he flipped town due to meta and her "safety nets", but I strongly disagree. I think even another red check from another player wouldn't be enough to delay her lynch if that happened.
Yes! I'm still getting used to it, but it was pretty similar to Civ 5 right away, and I really like a lot of the new additions and how some things have been switched up.
I have a couple of weird feelings about some of the posts today so I'm interested in what you think about responses and reactions.I am here for the next like two hours or so before I go to bed and am happy to discuss anything with anyone btw.
Doesn't have to be about this red check business, anything else. I gave some thoughts above on other players, I can maybe try to get a full read list started here too I guess, but I am looking for interactions too if anyone is here. :)
Fran already questioned this, but I'll go further: why are you supposing that the "hated modifier" you got and whatever hit Gorlak are scum powers?OK, so one mafia targeted me, that's one player accounted for. Is there a scum role out there that would alter Monkey's check on me if another player targeted her? How lucky for scum that that role hit a player with investigative capabilities. And I believe you said you were targeted so that's a third mafian with a power? If a mafian can control the results of another player, that sounds pretty powerful. I'm starting to believe there's only 3 mafians in this game if that's all true.
And as I just said, yeah, it's hard for me to wrap my head around both Fran and Monkey being scum since it's all so unnecessarily risky if they are. If Monkey is scum tho, Meatwad's most likely scum, I agree with that completely.
Anytime I've seen a red check turn up false around here, the person who gave it to the room got lunched the next day.
Fanto is pretty liberal and free with votes, and regularly vocalizes it. With other people, I might be a lil' suspicious of the vote. Not so much with Fanto.Also I don't think I can let this vote slide, Fanto. It came late in the day and there's no reasoning attached to it. And you didn't seem to lean scum on me earlier in the day, so I'd really like to know what you were doing here.
If it matters, I'll just re-state that I had 0 read on Meatwad and that my vote shouldn't be read into. Monkey, Fanto, and Gorlak all then came out one way or the other against a Meatwad lunch.And do you thin Monkey stepped in to protect Meatwad by convincing people like VA to not vote Meatwad? Is that the tangible link you're drawing from Fran and Dr Monkey and Meatwad?
No particular order, other than where their name was on the vote tool lol.Are those suspicious voters in any particular order? I agree on Kalor's vote which felt very safe and off note coming from the previous disconnected posts from him, but I'm fine with Kopite and Kitsu's votes.
And also, can you be more specific on what you didn't like on my vote? I know you're overall suspicious of me already, but I can't do much with "wasn't a fan". It is the fact I didn't move it or the vote itself?
It was just not aligned with how I was viewing things, so it was naturally suspicious to me.I'm caught up right now.
Really wanted to see a vote from VA at this point to actually have a read on him.
Trying to consider other wagons, but between turmoil and Meat I'd stay here.
Maol is just as collected (and weird) as I expected - I think I might have accustomed to his playstyle.
because he said he gained the Hated modifier and while I don't know if that's true,
and monkey makes threeFran already questioned this, but I'll go further: why are you supposing that the "hated modifier" you got and whatever hit Gorlak are scum powers?
with or without the Hatred modifier being the truth or a lie, i don't really see any other outcome of today other than a Maol lynch
the claim of Dr.'s role could've been misdirected or whathaveyou, but there's just as likely the chance it wasn't touched at all
Gorlak and Mao had a strange connection early on that I can't quite put into words.I have a couple of weird feelings about some of the posts today so I'm interested in what you think about responses and reactions.
OK, so one mafia targeted me, that's one player accounted for. Is there a scum role out there that would alter Monkey's check on me if another player targeted her? How lucky for scum that that role hit a player with investigative capabilities. And I believe you said you were targeted so that's a third mafian with a power? If a mafian can control the results of another player, that sounds pretty powerful. I'm starting to believe there's only 3 mafians in this game if that's all true.
And as I just said, yeah, it's hard for me to wrap my head around both Fran and Monkey being scum since it's all so unnecessarily risky if they are. If Monkey is scum tho, Meatwad's most likely scum, I agree with that completely.
mentioning knowing who it was apparently and "giving them a chance to claim" which is like, are we just all ignoring that line?
Absolutely true. So here's where I am on it (and then I gotta step away for a bit):If only we could have an easy way to prove that.....
And he could be hated and still be scum. It wouldn't be the first time in this community I think.
Yeah, and again I absolutely want someone to explain why I would so obviously bodyblock Meatwad in a way that would get me and then him killed because that's all that comes from this scenario.Oh, and also I had to read this post like 5 times and I'm still not sure how Mao is so certain about all of these night actions and stuff? Like, why are all of these Scum powers??