Death Stranding Mafia |OT| Bridge the Divides in Society (Via Murder)

[Fanto]

I guess the biggest thing that sticks out to me is Turmoil trying to make Monkey x Fran a thing. I certainly don't see anything fake about their discussions. So it does seem a bit forced on Turmoil's part. But that's the best I got now. I don't really excel at the early game

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Agreed, and I'm still hoping we can get more than what we've gotten from Turmoil so far, he's made a relatively high number of posts but they don't have a whole lot of substance to them, just quick thoughts that aren't really accompanied by many explanations.

Monkey: I've been gaslighted by Scum! Monkey before (MafiaEra especially) so I'm a bit wary of her after I really struck her attention early on and she didn't bother addressing my answer to it. I was kinda waiting for her read on me to assess this properly, but nothing so far. Not voting here yet but not cutting her a slack with a easy town lean at this point.

Fran: Lean town as his usual picky self. Really hard to pick up if scum early on, but gets progressively easier to read to me. Don't think I'd vote here today.

Fandorin: Damn, "struggling to contribute" is kinda harsh lol.

Gorlak: Didn't mind the numbers / powers discussion and don't think he got "defensive" over his points like some pointed out, but thinking about it now I dislike how nothing else came from him after this.

turmoil: Not really ringing any alarms to me - the fact he continues throwing out underdeveloped reads and hot takes despite being under heat on D1 doesn't really smell like scum to me.

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I spend every night phase in every game that I play with Monkey convincing myself that she's Scum, and then after she makes like one post on the next day, I throw it all out and give her a Town read lol.

Agreed on Fran, the times I've seen him as Scum, I always had him as a Town read early on but within a few phases I would have the realization that he's actually Scum.

Gorlak has a busy schedule from what I remember playing with him in Brexit 2, he's around when he can be, so I'm not too surprised we didn't hear from him again since then.

That's the thing that I mentioned earlier with Turmoil yeah, it feels too obvious which is obviously what Scum would want to avoid early on, but his behavior is giving us a talking point at least, and I would like to hear more fleshed out thoughts from him.

 

[Kopite]

I've seen a few people ( Fran, Fando and Maol) so far somewhat repeating the same points to me on what I said about avoiding lunching good town players early. It's stroking my paranoia and at best I think it's padding to hit the min 10 post count and at worst it's busywork for scum to blend it. Let me reclarify it. If and only if at day end we have 2 lunch candidates for flimsy reasons, lets say Monkey because she didn't reply to Fando's posts and Fat4All because he hasn't been much help, I think we should lunch the latter. Not worth going about on anymore.

 

[Kopite]

I'm here, but just watching the thread. Nothing being talked about is really striking me as anything worth commenting on. Most of the discussion has fallen into either meta behavior or people commenting on things that I've read earlier on that I don't feel I need to comment on.

D1 is always a toss up to me, and it's difficult to latch onto any discussion in a meaningful way since so much of D1 discussion is either forced or guesswork unless a player specifically makes a move early on, which hasn't happened.

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I feel the same way but I recall you made a very out there play in LiS I think to avoid this, maybe it was an early vote or claim or something. Is there a reason why you haven't tried the same here?

 

[Kopite]

Is this trauma from when those bastards voted you, Kate Marsh, out of the game on D1 in LiS? I'll never forgive them!

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[turmoil7]

Nothing has fancied my eyes yet but monkey and Fran

It should be noted than Kopite considered voting for doggo good

Has maol taken any stance so far?

I think I would have more to talk about if people voted a little more, things seems pretty stale and it's the same handful who are moving their votes around the place

vote: maolfunction

 

[turmoil7]

Let's play protect/investigate/kill

Ketkat/kalor/monkey

 

[Maolfunction]

I feel the same way but I recall you made a very out there play in LiS I think to avoid this, maybe it was an early vote or claim or something. Is there a reason why you haven't tried the same here?

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That play was motivated by the role I had. I wouldn't do something quite so brash typically unless I felt the play would be good for both town and my role. Everything I did during that game early on was stuff that I felt was very scummy, but no one bit on it. I don't want to play scummy intentionally just to spur activity without a way to explain it later on in the game. I also don't want to needlessly distract all of town's attention for the day unless I have a good reason for it.

 

[Fanto]

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I have the other half of this gif!

I think I would have more to talk about if people voted a little more

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I didn't want to have to be the guy who's always saying "Why aren't you people voting yet?" but yes, why aren't you people voting yet? Voting is fun, you get to use the highlight tags! That's fun! And since it's D1 you get to throw out some random whatever to go along with it, votes don't need to be serious, you don't need to be 100% sure of yourself. It's just D1, let's have some fun!

 

[Maolfunction]

Nothing has fancied my eyes yet but monkey and Fran

It should be noted than Kopite considered voting for doggo good

Has maol taken any stance so far?

I think I would have more to talk about if people voted a little more, things seems pretty stale and it's the same handful who are moving their votes around the place

vote: maolfunction

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Taking a stance barely 24 hours into the game would seem a bit excitable. I'm not that sort of player.

If you all want to see some votes, I'll throw in a random vote though.

Vote: Ketkat

 

[Fanto]

That play was motivated by the role I had. I wouldn't do something quite so brash typically unless I felt the play would be good for both town and my role. Everything I did during that game early on was stuff that I felt was very scummy, but no one bit on it. I don't want to play scummy intentionally just to spur activity without a way to explain it later on in the game. I also don't want to needlessly distract all of town's attention for the day unless I have a good reason for it.

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I don't think any of the gambits people went for in LiS ended up working, so don't feel bad, it was a great way to play that role.

Spoiler

I still hate you for finally using the role at like 2AM my time when I forgot to give both Pirate Bae and the modchat my pre-typed posts for it lol. Still, it was great, and I loved it.

 

[Maolfunction]

I don't think any of the gambits people went for in LiS ended up working, so don't feel bad, it was a great way to play that role.

Spoiler

I still hate you for finally using the role at like 2AM my time when I forgot to give both Pirate Bae and the modchat my pre-typed posts for it lol. Still, it was great, and I loved it.

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Yeah, my timezone does not quite gel with yours, lol. Sorry bout that, I would have enjoyed your pre typed posts in the game thread.

 

[Fandorin]

Let's play protect/investigate/kill

Ketkat/kalor/monkey

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Good call.
Kitsu/Fantomas/Monkey

 

[Meatwad]

Fantomas is absolutely right, This is no time to be squeamish

Vote: turmoil7

Oh yeah that felt good

 

[Fran]

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This is your second triple post. Are you secretly LP?

Let's play protect/investigate/kill

Ketkat/kalor/monkey

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Fanto/Fando/Turmoil

 

[Fanto]

Let's play protect/investigate/kill

Ketkat/kalor/monkey

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Ketkat/Monkey/Turmoil probably, maybe swap you with Kalor though depending on how things go for the rest of the day.

Good call.
Kitsu/Fantomas/Monkey

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Protect Kits? Any specific reason? I can rarely, if ever, get a firm read on her this early.

Fantomas is absolutely right, This is no time to be squeamish

Vote: turmoil7

Oh yeah that felt good

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That's what I'm talkin about!

 

[Fanto]

I can rarely, if ever, get a firm read on her this early.

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And by "firm read" I mean, in the context of D1 lol.

 

[turmoil7]

Taking a stance barely 24 hours into the game would seem a bit excitable. I'm not that sort of player.

If you all want to see some votes, I'll throw in a random vote though.

Vote: Ketkat

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I don't think it could be phrased in any more non committal way

So do you think she is scum?

 

[Fandorin]

Ketkat/Monkey/Turmoil probably, maybe swap you with Kalor though depending on how things go for the rest of the day.

Protect Kits? Any specific reason? I can rarely, if ever, get a firm read on her this early.

That's what I'm talkin about!

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Middle range poster that would give zero clues if flipped as town, which would make her an ideal target for the N1 kill at a game like this with not much activity.

 

[Fanto]

Middle range poster that would give zero clues if flipped as town, which would make her an ideal target for the N1 kill at a game like this with not much activity.

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Ah, thinking like Scum, I see. That's exactly what we did in Conspiracy when we killed Zipped on N1, the low-info kill.

 

[Maolfunction]

I don't think it could be phrased in any more non committal way

So do you think she is scum?

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It's random.

Of course it's non commital, I let random.org do the work for me. I don't think anyone is scum this early in the game, what you think a random vote indicates?

Did you miss the point literally a sentence above where I said making a stance just over 24 hours into the game is a bit excitable?

 

[turmoil7]

It's random.

Of course it's non commital, I let random.org do the work for me. I don't think anyone is scum this early in the game, what you think a random vote indicates?

Did you miss the point literally a sentence above where I said making a stance just over 24 hours into the game is a bit excitable?

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So you don't have any insight on any player and will just rng your way through the game, got it

 

[Dr. Monkey]

I don't think I've ever had so many people want to kill me d1. That's pretty interesting in and of itself. It's double interesting when one of them is turmoil, who is so slippery here that he may well be dipped in oil, but I'll get to that. These two first:

I'm not a particularly good player, but how much can you do on d1 that doesn't seem like busywork anyway

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Asking questions and following up on things is good d1 play, generally. Looking for connections without making something out of nothing. Generating content without noise. Voting before the last five minutes of the day.

Monkey: I've been gaslighted by Scum! Monkey before (MafiaEra especially) so I'm a bit wary of her after I really struck her attention early on and she didn't bother addressing my answer to it. I was kinda waiting for her read on me to assess this properly, but nothing so far. Not voting here yet but not cutting her a slack with a easy town lean at this point.

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Come down how you want, but bigger fish to fry than your awkward phrasing presented themselves, my dude.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

It's random.

Of course it's non commital, I let random.org do the work for me. I don't think anyone is scum this early in the game, what you think a random vote indicates?

Did you miss the point literally a sentence above where I said making a stance just over 24 hours into the game is a bit excitable?

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The way things have gone so far in this game, I don't think it's excitable at all. And "just over 24 hours into the game" is more than halfway through the phase, too.

But let's flip it: what's the point of a random vote when you announce it's a random vote? There's no pressure accompanying it. Unless someone follows you for weird reasons (which is doubtful when you say it's a random vote), it's not likely to start a train, and I struggle to see why anyone would vote for Ketkat here.

 

[Fanto]

I don't think I've ever had so many people want to kill me d1.

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I was going to comment on this, but mainly just to say "Why kill her when you could investigate her, get a red check, and just sit there smugly knowing that she's not Town!"

 

[Maolfunction]

So you don't have any insight on any player and will just rng your way through the game, got it

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You've got it.

I'm not as gifted as you are at deducing player alignments on D1.

 

[Maolfunction]

The way things have gone so far in this game, I don't think it's excitable at all. And "just over 24 hours into the game" is more than halfway through the phase, too.

But let's flip it: what's the point of a random vote when you announce it's a random vote? There's no pressure accompanying it. Unless someone follows you for weird reasons (which is doubtful when you say it's a random vote), it's not likely to start a train, and I struggle to see why anyone would vote for Ketkat here.

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It's a vote and it generates discussion. Obviously. Two people have keyed on it already.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

I was going to comment on this, but mainly just to say "Why kill her when you could investigate her, get a red check, and just sit there smugly knowing that she's not Town!"

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I mean, yes, from an outside standpoint, I think this is a pretty decent approach. Maybe we play p/i/k differently than these folks, but d1, I'm for sure not outright killing anyone who's gonna generate reads and readable content; I'd investigate first.

But from where I sit, knowing what I know (and knowing my own town v scum meta), I'm pretty amused. I'm not trying to start shit; Fando himself mentions that and should know the difference. But I can also understand why Fando in particular would be wary of me, so I'd be more inclined to read that more kindly. turmoil has been doing nothing but trying to start (baseless) shit, though.

Anyway, bigger post from earlier stuff incoming. But I think my own p/i/k would be:

protect Ketkat (gut feeling here)
investigate Gorlak
kill Maolfunction

 

[Fat4all]

ive never been a big fan of day ones, always seemed like a lot of pressure to have to build up arguments over such little tangible info

but if i dont then how are people suppose to get reads on me as well

Are you seriously saying that it's important that we discuss scum numbers during D1?

Really?

It must be the most useless discussion we can have D1 after No Lynch.

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in spirit i agree with you, but i don't really see it as a padding comment and more of an aside comment to Dr

i feel like a more blatant padding comment would be trying to start a conversation about how many scum players could exist early one, which would be fairly pointless day one talk

 

[Dr. Monkey]

It's a vote and it generates discussion. Obviously. Two people have keyed on it already.

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I think that's less keying in on the vote and more ????? generally.

Because the vote itself?

 

[Fat4all]

It's a vote and it generates discussion. Obviously. Two people have keyed on it already.

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they keyed in on it, sure, but it wont really go anywhere

not that a day one pressure vote is all that scary, but it could get things rolling in a direction if enough pressure builds before the day ends

 

[Maolfunction]

I think that's less keying in on the vote and more ????? generally.

Because the vote itself?

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I wouldn't say any vote anybody has down at the moment is any different than

Feel free to change my mind.

 

[Fanto]

My hottest take at the moment is that Turmoil and Fandorin are Scum together. Fando has been playing some defense for Turmoil and gives me a "How do you do, fellow Town?" kind of vibe that I was somewhat getting from him in HvV2, while Turmoil gives off an illusion of high activity but it's actually pretty surface level stuff and he hasn't been giving many convincing arguments to go along with his opinions so far, and like Monkey has said, he's being slippery and avoiding a decent number of questions.

I also don't think Turmoil actually believes what he is saying here, because Mao has clearly just been talking about D1:

So you don't have any insight on any player and will just rng your way through the game, got it

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[turmoil7]

You've got it.

I'm not as gifted as you are at deducing player alignments on D1.

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I'm glad we agree

 

[Fat4all]

Feel free to change my mind.

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[Maolfunction]

My hottest take at the moment is that Turmoil and Fandorin are Scum together. Fando has been playing some defense for Turmoil and gives me a "How do you do, fellow Town?" kind of vibe that I was somewhat getting from him in HvV2, while Turmoil gives off an illusion of high activity but it's actually pretty surface level stuff and he hasn't been giving many convincing arguments to go along with his opinions so far, and like Monkey has said, he's being slippery and avoiding a decent number of questions.

I also don't think Turmoil actually believes what he is saying here, because Mao has clearly just been talking about D1:

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Turmoil may also be attempting to get a rise out of me, not sure why, but yeah I can't imagine he actually thinks I'm gonna rng my way through the game. (Would be an interesting strategy though 🤔)

 

[Fanto]

I wouldn't say any vote anybody has down at the moment is any different than

Feel free to change my mind.

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Yes but the difference is that the other votes are at least accompanied with something and not just saying that you went to Random.org for it. You haven't even given your own thoughts on Ketkat, you literally just picked her name out of a hat, so there's not much to discuss.

If you said "I don't buy it, I think Ketkat is being a sneaky Scum!" and then voted for her, but still RNG'd it, then there would be things to discuss with it at least.

 

[Natiko]

==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start

turmoil7 (3 votes)
Gorlak - #108
Fantomas - #187
Meatwad - #213

Fat4all (1 votes)
turmoil7 - #130 #205
Ketkat - #169

Gorlak (1 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #109
Fantomas - #168 #187

Ketkat (1 votes)
Maolfunction - #209

Maolfunction (1 votes)
turmoil7 - #205

Meatwad (0 votes)
Fantomas - #123 #168

Kopite (0 votes)
turmoil7 - #50 #82

Fran (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #80 #109

Dr. Monkey (0 votes)
Fantomas - #52 #123

Not voting: Fat4all, Kopite, Fran, Vincent Alexander, malus, Kalor, Fandorin, Dr. Monkey

Post Counts:
Fantomas: 35 turmoil7: 23 Dr. Monkey: 21 Fandorin: 21 Kitsunelaine: 14 Fran: 12 Fat4all: 10 Kopite: 10 Maolfunction: 10 Gorlak: 8 Vincent Alexander: 7 Ketkat: 6 Meatwad: 5 malus: 4 Kalor: 2

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

 

[Fat4all]

If you said "I don't buy it, I think Ketkat is being a sneaky Scum!" and then voted for her, but still RNG'd it, then there would be things to discuss with it at least.

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but thats lying

only scums lie

 

[Fanto]

but thats lying

only scums lie

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[Fanto]

I suppose we are technically discussing Mao's decision to RNG his vote here though, which in and of itself is a thing to discuss even if it doesn't involve the vote really, but kind of does, but moreso his choice, opinion, and behavior.

Interesting...

 

[Meatwad]

It's random.

Of course it's non commital, I let random.org do the work for me. I don't think anyone is scum this early in the game, what you think a random vote indicates?

Did you miss the point literally a sentence above where I said making a stance just over 24 hours into the game is a bit excitable?

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You don't have to be convinced anybody is scum this early on, but do you at least have some leans? Anything about anybody that stands out to you so far? Eeven if you feel a suspicion you have is super weak, it's still better than letting random.org decide your vote imo

 

[Maolfunction]

Yes but the difference is that the other votes are at least accompanied with something and not just saying that you went to Random.org for it. You haven't even given your own thoughts on Ketkat, you literally just picked her name out of a hat, so there's not much to discuss.

If you said "I don't buy it, I think Ketkat is being a sneaky Scum!" and then voted for her, but still RNG'd it, then there would be things to discuss with it at least.

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They're accompanied by either scum trying to act natural or townies doing their best guess work based on either meta or grasping at straws in some posts.

There's not anything substantial happening in the votes. D1 stuff is only useful to look at after people flip scum and people can look back and see what the D1 interactions were.

Any interaction at that point is useful, be it built on a vote generated by an algorithm or someone's fancy guesswork. I know I'm not flipping scum, I'm not particularly interested in trying to force myself to find something that isn't there to appear more townie.

 

[Maolfunction]

I suppose we are technically discussing Mao's decision to RNG his vote here though, which in and of itself is a thing to discuss even if it doesn't involve the vote really, but kind of does, but moreso his choice, opinion, and behavior.

Interesting...

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Fucking nothing, indeed.

 

[Maolfunction]

You don't have to be convinced anybody is scum this early on, but do you at least have some leans? Anything about anybody that stands out to you so far? Eeven if you feel a suspicion you have is super weak, it's still better than letting random.org decide your vote imo

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My lean is turmoil could produce a tunnel on me very easily. I don't have a lean on any player's alignment yet.

I do think there's a few players seeing a chance to interact with the thread finally though.

 

[Fanto]

There's not anything substantial happening in the votes. D1 stuff is only useful to look at after people flip scum and people can look back and see what the D1 interactions were.

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Aha, but in order to get some good interactions like that, we need to have some votes. I assume you will eventually move your RNG vote to somewhere else by EoD, correct? Because if you just sit on the sidelines for the whole day, you aren't really contributing towards this eventual goal, correct?

 

[Dr. Monkey]

So I know Gorlak is on the other side of the world but it felt really abrupt when he exited the thread and I don't want this stuff to get left behind. I don't really have a read on him yet - the kneejerk reaction he had was actually pretty NAI, I think - but I do think this stuff needs to be addressed.

While this may be true, I've also won every game in which I lynched turmoil #truthfacts

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Overall, this remark feels more like a joke than a serious remark from me, and the follow up about how turmoil was town both times is what I'm more interested in because I'm really not sure how to read it. It's somewhat brazen if Gorlak is scum here. I keep typing and deleting here because I'm really not sure what to say. If Gorlak is joking, all this is nothing, and that's possible. But it's weird. Not overtly bad weird, just weird-weird. If jokey, I want to read it as town, if that makes sense?

Anyway, where he explains is also where he turns into the game speculation and I think maybe that's what stuck out to me. The pairing feels potentially like a purposeful deflection. I felt more strongly about this before turmoil started slip-sliding around, though (but everything after is still notable).

He was town both times, one time I won as scum (Mini 4) and one time as town (Brexit 2).

Fantomas No, Brexit 2 was my last game, but spec chats probably taught us a thing about one another.

Since some of you are here, do you all mind to do the numbers dance early, so we are done with it?
15 players, role madness, bastardly
We got either 3 scum with good powers or 4 weak scum.
1 neutral is possible, not with 4 scum though

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As a reminder, this is how I responded - note that I don't mention numbers (and later clarified that I wasn't talking about numbers); my objection is on speculating on scum power capability.

We have absolutely nothing to base scum powers on outside of our own role PMs and even that's a really weak comparison because some may have stronger powers and some weaker. This is the the most baseless base speculation in a game described like this one.

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And Gorlak really did not like being questioned on this (and I wasn't the only one):

Dr. Monkey you know damn well that games were lost because scum numbers were underestimated. 20% vs 26.6% scum. These are different worlds with different implications. What's your problem here? How's any of this baseless?

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I addressed that in my post as well. I don't think you're serious here as that relative comparison of 3 Vs 4 member team holds up regardless of our info.

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The "I don't think you're serious here" really sticks out to me - because again, I have no comment on numbers. Yes, underestimating scum numbers has bitten us before but no one's arguing that. It feels like a nudge toward narrative creation. I can't be serious or not about that since I never talked about it, but it's a push toward "Monkey is trying to deflect" when I'm all saying is we don't know anything about scum powers.

Except for scum, of course, they do.

Anyway, I look forward to Gorlak's return and getting a better handle on all this.

 

[Maolfunction]

Aha, but in order to get some good interactions like that, we need to have some votes. I assume you will eventually move your RNG vote to somewhere else by EoD, correct? Because if you just sit on the sidelines for the whole day, you aren't really contributing towards this eventual goal, correct?

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Correct.

A random vote is something different. It produces conversation pretty easily because it's not based on anything, it creates dissent from players who think it's weird and potentially suspicious because it's different and that sort of discussion ping pongs to other things that might be more substantial; probably not, but it makes D1 a bit more interesting at the very least without doing anything brash.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

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Can we just ban this asshole from appearing in our games?

Not you, fatdog, you are beloved.

 

[Fat4all]

I kinda assumed Gorlak's posts were more of an aside at you Dr. Monkey, that people ran with a bit too hard, but I didn't really notice that both times they were quick to actually try and use numbers with both their posts, maybe they were trying to start that kind of conversation early in earnest?

i haven't been reading all that many mafia games recently so i wouldn't know for sure

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Correct.

A random vote is something different. It produces conversation pretty easily because it's not based on anything, it creates dissent from players who think it's weird and potentially suspicious because it's different and that sort of discussion ping pongs to other things that might be more substantial; probably not, but it makes D1 a bit more interesting at the very least without doing anything brash.

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But it's noise about how blah blah blah d1 is useless rng votes conversation for the sake of conversation which literally helps no one except possibly scum since it distracts from anything actually useful, which is why this is the last thing I'm gonna say about it. It's lazy at best and anti-town at worst. And here, worse yet, your internal logic throughout these posts is inconsistent because you're saying d1 votes only matter later... and rng votes just create noise that interferes with analysis of "real" votes.