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Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
I still like what I saw and I take different and daring above sequel 7 to generic action game. Most importantly, I will reserve judgement until I have played a good portion of the game. People just love to dunk on this game. It's probably a natural counter-reaction to the Kojima-hype beforehand.

This here is some bad animation.
I doubt this is how it's supposed to look like. Looks like the animations glitched there.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,150
Indonesia
I asked myself this exact same question when watching. I remember Kojima in an interview recently saying that he hopes to connect millions of people together at launch. I get the feeling that the game at launch will be something completely different to say 6 months down the line. After all, everyone is exploring this desolate and unknown world together for the first time. The more we become familiar with it as a community, the more the 'magic' goes away, I suppose, with more manmade structures like bridges being built making traversal safer.
Wow, so people who jumped in later are basically getting a vastly different gameplay experience then? Arguably worse, even.

I doubt this is how it's supposed to look like. Looks like the animations glitched there.
Janks in a Kojima game? He's still human after all. :P
 

DaveB

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,513
New Hampshire, USA
The summary from PlayStation Access confirms this will be a hard pass for me. I don't sip the Kojima Kool-Aid, I'm not a Reedus (or any of the other celebs) fanboy, and this honestly sounds like a chore to play. I'm generally done with open world sandbox games in general, so it already had an uphill battle winning me over.

The main thing that stood out to me is having to put down gear to regain mobility in a fight. How many times have simple health or ammo pickups fell through or got stuck in the level geometry in games over the years? I would be afraid of putting something valuable down - maybe even a key item - and not being able to regain it.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
I asked myself this exact same question when watching. I remember Kojima in an interview recently saying that he hopes to connect millions of people together at launch. I get the feeling that the game at launch will be something completely different to say 6 months down the line. After all, everyone is exploring this desolate and unknown world together for the first time. The more we become familiar with it as a community, the more the 'magic' goes away, I suppose, with more manmade structures like bridges being built making traversal safer and the world more 'known'.
This is pretty much my only but big concern here. But I suspect the devs must've thought about this too and built in some counter-measures (maybe all that stuff has a rather limited lifetime due to timefall or something like that).

Anyway, I suppose this is one of those games that's best experienced near launch due to the unknown.
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,605
Wow, so people who jumped in later are basically getting a vastly different gameplay experience then? Arguably worse, even.
Obviously nothing is certain yet, but here's the direct quote from Kojima for context

Hideo Kojima said:
I'm going to let you down, but I cannot say anything at the moment. All I can say is that it is an open world in which the players will quickly find out that the approach is different. It's going to be a hard task and you must reconnect a fractured society and split up humans, you do this with a character who has nothing to do with superheroes. Sam is just by himself and must survive, he has no special power. The more you play, the more you will notice that he isn't the only one in this situation. At launch, there will probably be millions of people who will play and you will be CONNECTED to them USING SOMETHING…

There's this sense of mystery that has pervaded the game ever since announcement, but it'll quickly be lost as the game releases and everyone becomes familiar with things such as the world, story, entities etc and talk to each other about it on internet forums and the like. I can't imagine the experience being the same especially when a big part of the game is exploring the world together with other couriers despite never actually being there physically.

This is pretty much my only but big concern here. But I suspect the devs must've thought about this too and built in some counter-measures (maybe all that stuff has a rather limited lifetime due to timefall or something like that).

Anyway, I suppose this is one of those games that's best experienced near launch due to the unknown.
Yeah. I just want people to understand that I'm not claiming anything definitive. This is still a big unknown but Kojima's comment about millions of people being connected at launch has me intrigued, what happens after launch though? What about 6 months down the line? I wonder how frequent things like bikes and manmade structures like rest stations and bridges from other players will show up. I'd imagine they have a system to keep it limited as having a bunch of them littered around once people have inhabited the game world doesn't seem great at all. It does give off that vibe that you aren't alone but at the same time, I'd imagine it'd make the game's challenge a lot easier, especially having rest stations and bikes around everywhere. Maybe this kind of thing is tied to difficulty? The harder the difficulty, the less likely you're going to run into these stuff thus making the game a bit harder?
 
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Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Yeah. I just want people to understand that I'm not claiming anything definitive. This is still a big unknown but Kojima's comment about millions of people being connected at launch has me intrigued, what happens after launch though? What about 6 months down the line?
I'm pretty sure you won't be connected to millions of players at the same time. It'll be shards or clusters (what is it called again?) of players like in the Souls games. So the density of interactions will stay they same (therefore no dozens of bridges across the same river). Only the number of automatically grouped players with whom you could potentially be connected with will vary.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,279
This game looks amazing. I can't believe how close to my dream story driven game it appears to be. There are loads of mechanics in this game.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,150
Indonesia
So I've watched the video from start to finish, but skipped some boring parts. Probably 30 minutes out of 48 minutes watched. My main takeaway is that it's a totally interesting game and I can finally see what Kojima is saying by making something completely new, because it is. I also finally understand the Social Strand system from this video, it's definitely interesting and a new kind of gameplay.

I have one big question though. Is there a lore explaining why there's no creature at all in the vast and lush open world landscape? I don't think the environment is toxic because Sam doesn't need to wear some protective gear.
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,710
Not watching it but loving the fact people like what they saw.

I'm not a Kojima fan and I was sceptical before, but I do have to say it looks indeed pretty cool from what I saw. Seems you will be going on a massive adventure, crossing a post-apocalyptic, alien/hell creature infested US. Yeah, there is a lot of walking, but there's also a lot of other activities and exhilarating combat against humans and really scary creatures. That boss battle (I think that was just a regular enemy actually) was amazing.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Some combat:

GkUhHy1.gif
Looks like Hitman might have some competition in the "satisfying briefcase throw" department
 

More Butter

Banned
Jun 12, 2018
1,890
Graphics are fantastic. Not sure it looks fun at all but it sure is pretty. Animations look fantastic. I will end up getting it cause it has ladders probably.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
Not sure if this is what I want, but it does confirm that this game is exactly what I thought it was.

While it's hard for me to tell how satisfying it will be moment-to-moment, I like how just about everything you do feeds back into the traversal. Because of the game's insane dedication to modeling carried gear, choices about how much you bring and the tools you have will impact what you can do in the world and how you can approach encounters. For example, the raider camp in the demo seemed loaded with special resources, but your ability to claim those resources is limited by your ability to carry them off. Similarly, your ability to deal with BTs depends a lot on your equipment. There's lots of room for people to make different choices about their gear, and to have those choices push them towards different routes and methods of traversal. Additionally, the more an area gets mapped and built up by other players, the easier it will be for people to travel with light gear, allowing them to more easily pick up sidequests or attack caches of supplies.

Where I'm more uncertain comes down to how engaging the traversal actually feels (though there are certainly lots of points of interaction) and how the game's long-term progression works. It's one thing to explore through uncharted territory, but quite another to retread your steps through well-worn ground to build things up and farm likes. I'm also curious how destructively players will be allowed to behave regarding the creations of others, considering this demo already showed that players could pick up ladders placed by others, preventing them from being shared.
 

banshee150

Banned
Apr 3, 2019
1,386
While it looks amazing, the game seems like an absolute chore to play and i dont see myself enjoying it. Will wait for reviews.
 

Bulby

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,035
Berlin
I cant deny that It looks intruiging and beautiful (and way better than I gave it credit for after gamescon).

But theres still a very lifeless weird vibe that MGSV gave me. And I dont mean an empty game world.

Im more interested now than I was before but I wont be buying blind day 1.
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
The complaints of 'it looks empty' does not make any sense. The purpose of the game is to actually rebuild stuff in that landscape with other people online.

Its like saying you dont like mario maker before the levels gets build lol.
It's a really silly stupid complaint we've seen happen with BotW as well. It's missing the point. But i'm sure this game will turn around that complaint for lots of people
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,605
I'm pretty sure you won't be connected to millions of players at the same time. It'll be shards or clusters (what is it called again?) of players like in the Souls games. So the density of interactions will stay they same (therefore no dozens of bridges across the same river). Only the number of automatically grouped players with whom you could potentially be connected with will vary.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think what I and Kojima meant by the millions of players comment though is that we'd all be playing Death Stranding at the same time. Not necessarily connected together through online play, but we'll all have that shared experience, and that feeds into internet discussions, theorycrafting etc. I feel that kind of thing would be lost if you were to play way later down the line.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,271
It may sounds strange saying this, but it looks pretty much as I expected (that's a good thing). They already alluded to most things in previous footage and I already had a very good idea of what to expect, this footage just confirms it. It doesn't quite look like a new genre or anything, but it looks very interesting and I can't wait to see what kind of stuff there is to find in the world.
 

Team_Feisar

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,352
So, this is me talking out of my Ass:

I think he is going for something like a real-time rebuilding of society that is dynamically influenced by stuff the players build and share in the world.
I think if certain things survive the rain is tied to their purpose, small tools/vehicles will probably always vanish after a few rains, larger structures might survive if they get enough usage (likes). That´s how i think the like-System is integrated, its something like a "live-voting" about which user generated structures become permanent parts of the shared gameworld.
If its tied to usage (I think we saw the likes being automatically given when crossing the bridge for example), it actually becomes a community effort to develop the world area by area.
That´s also why he said the game is most dynamic at launch when a lot of players do a lot of stuff and things change constantly because almost nothing survives initially. I also think they will randomly place "fake-user-generated" short-term-stuff (tools, Vehicles, etc.) in the world to not make the game harder for players who join the game later in its lifecycle.

Also: Death Stranding |OT| Nor Mans´ Sky
 
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pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,654
The Milky Way
Because animation is part of the whole "it looks beautiful". A game like this, which focuses on immersion and uncanny valley characters should have good animation to help with that immersion. If they look realistic but don't move realistically then that breaks the immersion. Why do you think these companies spend so much money on mo-cap?
I'm not saying it's irrelevant, just that it's not the only factor or the most important. RDR2 had amazing animation but the controls broke any immersion that created. And if actual immersion is of such focus then obviously a first person view would be used anyway.

The animation in DS is just fine. It was never going to be ND tier.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,271
Where I'm more uncertain comes down to how engaging the traversal actually feels (though there are certainly lots of points of interaction) and how the game's long-term progression works. It's one thing to explore through uncharted territory, but quite another to retread your steps through well-worn ground to build things up and farm likes.

Not sure what farming 'likes' (since I haven't watched the demo lol) is but, yeah, this is one of my worries. I love the idea of an open world game that's simultaneously 'linear' but it's unclear whether this will actually be that or whether it will require you to keep going in circles and retreading prior ground. Final Fantasy XV promised a 'road trip' atmosphere but, once you got to the main city, it shows that you're actually just in a giant circular map where you'll have to drive the same roads a whole bunch of times.
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,605
So, this is me talking out of my Ass:

I think he is going for something like a real-time rebuilding of society that is dynamically influenced by stuff the players build and share in the world.
I think if the stuff survives the rain is tied to its purpose, small things/vehicles will probably vanish, larger structures might survive if they get enough usage (likes). That´s how i think the like-System is integrated, its something like a "live-voting" about which user generated structures become permanent parts of the shared gameworld.
If its tied to usage (I think we saw the likes being automatically given when crossing the bridge for example), it actually becomes a community effort to develop the world area by area.
That´s also why he said the game is most dynamic at launch when a lot of players do a lot of stuff and things change constantly because almost nothing survives initially. I also think they will randomly place "fake-user-generated" short-term-stuff (tools, Vehicles, etc.) in the world to not make the game harder for players who join the game later in its lifecycle.

Also: Death Stranding |OT| Nor Mans´ Sky
That's actually kinda dope, not gonna lie. The like system presumably has some sort of value attached to it and I think this would make a lot of sense though I feel it might have a deeper meaning too, possibly connected to the story and the Chiral Network.
 

Artorias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,087
How's the world look compared to something like BotW? I don't want to watch the video, rather not spoil myself too much.

I'm worried the short dev time has impacted the density of the world the most.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
I'm not a Kojima fan and I was sceptical before, but I do have to say it looks indeed pretty cool from what I saw. Seems you will be going on a massive adventure, crossing a post-apocalyptic, alien/hell creature infested US. Yeah, there is a lot of walking, but there's also a lot of other activities and exhilarating combat against humans and really scary creatures. That boss battle (I think that was just a regular enemy actually) was amazing.

So good to hear, esp the boss battle bit.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
Was such an impressive demo. I think I'm finally sold on what Kojima is going for. I don't know if everything he's doing is going to be successful, and I'm certain it will have lots of luls, but it's certainly deep, impressive, unique, stunning and really different to other AAA games. The degree of systemic elements is really impressive. In a way it's like some cinematic take on a shared world traversal game, a pseudo online Kojima take on BotW almost.
After reading this, i've Decided to not watch. Day 1.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
I am watching this and I think this could be a fun relaxing game as it looks here? Like, you just want to look at pretty stuff and maybe here some water falls and things.

But I do not like that blinking effect the game has - as someone who stares at screens all the time sees single frame pacing problems, it hits my eyes very hard and makes the game look incofherent.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think what I and Kojima meant by the millions of players comment though is that we'd all be playing Death Stranding at the same time. Not necessarily connected together through online play, but we'll all have that shared experience, and that feeds into internet discussions, theorycrafting etc. I feel that kind of thing would be lost if you were to play way later down the line.
Yup. I imagine this will be similar to playing Demon's Souls at release. (DaS was my entry point to the series and exploring all its mysteries at launch together with other players was a fantastic experience).
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,605
But I do not like that blinking effect the game has - as someone who stares at screens all the time sees single frame pacing problems, it hits my eyes very hard and makes the game look incofherent.
I think this is just something Kojima added in post, it shows up in the trailers too as a sort of transition between scenes.

This is just a dumb theory of mine, but the blink is clearly from the BB. If you take a look at the end of the clip, you can see Sam winking directly to us. I think Kojima's trying to push that Player = BB angle.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
So, this is me talking out of my Ass:

I think he is going for something like a real-time rebuilding of society that is dynamically influenced by stuff the players build and share in the world.
I think if the stuff survives the rain is tied to its purpose, small things/vehicles will probably always vanish after a few rains, larger structures might survive if they get enough usage (likes). That´s how i think the like-System is integrated, its something like a "live-voting" about which user generated structures become permanent parts of the shared gameworld.
If its tied to usage (I think we saw the likes being automatically given when crossing the bridge for example), it actually becomes a community effort to develop the world area by area.
That´s also why he said the game is most dynamic at launch when a lot of players do a lot of stuff and things change constantly because almost nothing survives initially. I also think they will randomly place "fake-user-generated" short-term-stuff (tools, Vehicles, etc.) in the world to not make the game harder for players who join the game later in its lifecycle.

Also: Death Stranding |OT| Nor Mans´ Sky
I want this!
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
How's the world look compared to something like BotW? I don't want to watch the video, rather not spoil myself too much.

I'm worried the short dev time has impacted the density of the world the most.
BotW for it being called empty is filled with points of interests. I dont think thats what DS is going for. It's more of getting over the obstacles from point a to b
 

Gero

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,207
The gameplay looks really unique and now i finally understand the "social" part of the game. Looks pretty chill and drop dead gorgeous. I also like the world and the characters so far and the cinematics are top notch aswell as the music. Cant wait
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,605
Is there an explanation why the US doesn't look like the US? :p
A cataclysmic event called the Death Stranding happened 10 years ago causing explosions to occur in major cities around the US, completely reshaping the landscape and introducing otherwordly creatures called BTs that consume humans. It also introduced this special rain called "Timefall" that accelerates the progress of time of all life that comes in contact with it except Sam, who is immune to it. Humans found out that by consuming cryptobiotes daily, you can avoid the effects of it.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
I'm not saying it's irrelevant, just that it's not the only factor or the most important. RDR2 had amazing animation but the controls broke any immersion that created. And if actual immersion is of such focus then obviously a first person view would be used anyway.

Which is why it's a whole package. You are criticizing RDR2 for part of that package (the controls) so why can't people criticize the animations?