I played the campaign over the weekend and would have happily played another 20 hours of the story. For me, the issue is the post-game. It's bland, the rewards and loot are meh, and there's no sense of excitement or discovery.
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Death of a Game: Marvel's Avengers
- Thread starter Shard Shinjuku
- Start date
This game is so dead that a new character apparently just released and no one is talking about it. The slight increase in players on Steam is likely due to this new character, but those numbers will plummet again once folks finish that content. The game is dead. Time to admit it.
Except there is still more content coming, and we don't know what the current player base is on consoles. I don't understand the fascination on this forum with wanting things to die because they aren't for you.
Is there any reason to believe the player base on consoles would be radically different than what we see on Steam? And yes, there's more content coming, but we just had content. Look at the Steam numbers. It looks like it topped out around 2500 players when that content released and now it's back down to less than 800 with a 24 hour peak of 1100.
What are the biggest superheroes left to be added that could actually move the needle? Looking at the leaked list I don't see any characters that would have a huge impact. Black Panther may do a little. Maybe Doctor Strange. But I don't see anything for most people to get excited for. And you still have the core issues with the gameplay loop. That isn't going to be changed.
I'm happy if you're enjoying the game and continue to play it, but I'm being realistic.
I think it's more like if the game is focused around long term support and the game's popularity is pretty much gone a lot of people are gonna be skeptical in jumping in because that support may not continue.
I still like the game. So there. Neener neener.
As long as they keep adding DLC characters that are as fun to play as like Kate Bishop, with compelling stories, like Kate Bishop's, I'll keep coming back.
Things that will greatly improve this game:
As long as they keep adding DLC characters that are as fun to play as like Kate Bishop, with compelling stories, like Kate Bishop's, I'll keep coming back.
Things that will greatly improve this game:
- More villains (Maestro appears to be next—cool)
- Cross-play (fill up those multiplayer rooms)
- PS5/XSX/S versions (it already runs buttery smooth and loads fast, but what else can new gen add?)
- Wakanda (new locations, more variety)
- Spider-man, Black Panther, Hawkeye, etc... (the more characters there are to choose from, the easier it'll be to form parties)
Yeah, this is god-tier bad design for a loot game. Their excuse was insincere and it was done to sell skins.
What type of end-game content, specifically, could be added to make it more fun?
Ultimately it's all about punching/shooting things, so what scenarios can they come up with? Perhaps some more goal-specific modes i.e. could they borrow modes from something like Battlefield and do something with them? Just thinking about that, having some heros flying around battling in the air whilst some are on the ground pushing forward objectives actually sounds quite fun, I'd probably play that!
Ultimately it's all about punching/shooting things, so what scenarios can they come up with? Perhaps some more goal-specific modes i.e. could they borrow modes from something like Battlefield and do something with them? Just thinking about that, having some heros flying around battling in the air whilst some are on the ground pushing forward objectives actually sounds quite fun, I'd probably play that!
- A different crafting/upgrade system. Having to waste resources just to get your power level up even if its not gear you want is bad, especially since once your level is up you still get the base-level gear.
- Enemy scaling - Make loot drop more freely of a high level, but with this basically make endless scaling mobs which increase the likelihood of better gear.
- More collaborative and team-based encounters. This game thrives in its synergies. More incentive to play as a group as well.
- More bosses. This is a Marvel game, I'm sure there are a few folks from the universe that could be brought in. Just a few.
They should have licensed the actors, made a big action game, and released it near Endgame. That might not have the "people still playing it months later" tail but it would have the "people still buying it months later" tail. That's what I think most people wanted. I know I've wanted it forever.
Copying Destiny would have worked had they actually copied Destiny properly. The initial play felt like maybe they did and I was getting all geared up for the post-campaign fun, then it just kind of stopped being fun for a while and I stopped playing. Plus Genshin Impact came out.
I got it free from Verizon and still enjoyed my time with it, but it felt kind of anemic. If the PS5 version actually sees the light of day I'll jump back on then and play the stuff I've missed since launch. I will support the game by word of mouth, but not without mentioning its caveats in the same breath.
Kate's gear is pretty awesome. Even if one or two are glitched (4 perks on Hawkette's Edge, one being hidden, and the Blink Cloak seeming too good to be true), her gear is transformative for different types of builds. So if they keep going in this direction that's good. We don't even have her mega hive exotics yet.
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Not related.
Earlier I mentioned that a map currently in the game might be the thing they would use for Wakanda, but I was mistaken. It looks like the "Cloning Lab" endgame missions that I'm thinking about. I remember seeing a area like the below image used in a clip where they talked about it.
---------------------------
Not related.
Earlier I mentioned that a map currently in the game might be the thing they would use for Wakanda, but I was mistaken. It looks like the "Cloning Lab" endgame missions that I'm thinking about. I remember seeing a area like the below image used in a clip where they talked about it.
No, they don't want to pay those actors for likeness rights for a game they're not even in that has nothing to do with the MCU. This thing was expensive enough as it is.
The combat is the primary reason I played as much as I did. The heroes are fun to play as and the main campaign is solid, but that's really it. The loot is never ever exciting. I played like 60+ hours of the game and never once was I excited when I got an exotic or anything else in this game, because the loot is uninteresting and doesn't have perks that change up the gameplay in unique enough ways like exotic gear in Destiny for example does.
The mission design is probably the worst aspect of the game though. They take the same handful of AIM Labs and repeat them ad nauseum for nearly every single mission type and mode until you just want to rip your hair out of your head because of how many times you've run through them. Then the mission objectives also are never unique. They're always the same few variations over and over again. They use cloning as an excuse for you to fight clones of Taskmaster and Abomination countless times because there aren't enough bosses in the game for you to fight. It's ridiculous.
Even Kate Bishop's missions are the same way, albeit slightly more interesting because of the story beats. I'll cut them some slack on that because most of her arc was likely developed alongside the rest of the game, but the point is the game desperately needs mission/environment/objective variety. They need to just kill off the AIM story arc asap and move onto something new because it simply isn't interesting.
When Wakanda / Black Panther comes out, I'm honestly expecting it to be set in AIM Labs too because I don't have much faith in Crystal Dynamics to make unique environments and missions for this game anymore. Take any of the War Zones (the semi-open world areas) and plop them into another non-Marvel game and you wouldn't even know the difference. You've got your generic city, forest, snowy tundra, and desert/cliff areas. They're so bland and devoid of any creativity that they're more or less blank slates that any dev could use for their own game. When you have the Marvel license at your fingertips and tons of environments/worlds to choose from, it just blows my mind that this was the best they could come up with. It's so lifeless and sterile. Such a frustrating game because it has some potential buried under all of the mess, but I don't know if it'll ever get there.
The mission design is probably the worst aspect of the game though. They take the same handful of AIM Labs and repeat them ad nauseum for nearly every single mission type and mode until you just want to rip your hair out of your head because of how many times you've run through them. Then the mission objectives also are never unique. They're always the same few variations over and over again. They use cloning as an excuse for you to fight clones of Taskmaster and Abomination countless times because there aren't enough bosses in the game for you to fight. It's ridiculous.
Even Kate Bishop's missions are the same way, albeit slightly more interesting because of the story beats. I'll cut them some slack on that because most of her arc was likely developed alongside the rest of the game, but the point is the game desperately needs mission/environment/objective variety. They need to just kill off the AIM story arc asap and move onto something new because it simply isn't interesting.
When Wakanda / Black Panther comes out, I'm honestly expecting it to be set in AIM Labs too because I don't have much faith in Crystal Dynamics to make unique environments and missions for this game anymore. Take any of the War Zones (the semi-open world areas) and plop them into another non-Marvel game and you wouldn't even know the difference. You've got your generic city, forest, snowy tundra, and desert/cliff areas. They're so bland and devoid of any creativity that they're more or less blank slates that any dev could use for their own game. When you have the Marvel license at your fingertips and tons of environments/worlds to choose from, it just blows my mind that this was the best they could come up with. It's so lifeless and sterile. Such a frustrating game because it has some potential buried under all of the mess, but I don't know if it'll ever get there.
Not gonna lie, I still sometimes think about getting this game, but then realize that I wouldn't get Spider-Man so I don't. Crossplay is something this game sorely needed. Outriders is looking sick at least.
It was probably a Marvel Entertainment mandate to have actor likeness. The game was in development whilst Ike Perlmutter had creative oversight with everything non-Marvel Studios.
In today's update they added new loot, seeing as they capped enemies to 150 I'm guessing future content will up the power level as new loot come around, maybe with endgame stuff. As long as they continue to update the game I won't really care how many people are playing on PC. I still play Warframe and I only ever play it solo as well. I see For Honor is even still getting content (love it, so good), and The Crew 2.
Dead as in active player count in any given time on Steam? I guess I see this point.
Dead as in active player count in any given time on Steam? I guess I see this point.
It is, regardless of steam numbers.
It's too early, please understand
I do think it's too early. I generally like the Death of a Game series, but it really should be for titles in the ground, not on their last legs.
damn.
It's too early, please understand
These are Battleborn numbers.
Ya'll remember Battleborn??? Feels like a lifetime ago.
It's probably too early to call the game "dead," especially since the Christmas sales season and Black Friday discounts will bring in a whole wave of new users. That said, it is hard to imagine what changes (if any) could really turn this game's fortune around.
Launching at the same time that Fornite premiered a Marvel-centric update was also incredibly stupid, but I guess they couldn't exactly ask Epic to delay and they couldn't have pushed Avengers into 2021.
I'd like to know what idiot decided that the first major DLC drop should be a character that isn't even in the Marvel movies and is just a variant of Hawkeye (one of the least interesting/exciting Avengers). It's like having the first DLC for Gran Turismo be a package of KIA cars.
Launching at the same time that Fornite premiered a Marvel-centric update was also incredibly stupid, but I guess they couldn't exactly ask Epic to delay and they couldn't have pushed Avengers into 2021.
Avengers seems like a weird game where if it was marketed as "Campaign + some extra bonus modes" it would be seen as a good to great game, but because it's seen as a "Underwhelming Loot Game with a surprisingly decent Campaign", there's a bunch of posts about how dead it is and how it needs to have new content every single month in order to be relevant or else it's doomed. When I would see people talking about how great the Resident Evil Merecenaries modes always were, that's basically kind of how I see all the repetitive missions. It's fun to shoot things in RE4 and RE5, so extra bonus modes that let you do more of that and give me a score/rating/XP are fine with me. I basically feel the same way about Avengers, haha.
For me personally, the game is great because I basically see it as the former, and since I love the core gameplay so much, the repetitive mission content, while obviously noticeable, doesn't really bother me.
I suppose it makes sense from an economic perspective, Square probably wants this to be "Destiny, but a Beat Em' Up", so that people are playing it for 5+ years and spending money on it and having co-op sessions every day and raking in money. And if I recall correctly, the marketing campaign kind of set those expectations. But for me it's like...mostly fine as is, and anything new content that happens is a nice bonus? *shrug*
For me personally, the game is great because I basically see it as the former, and since I love the core gameplay so much, the repetitive mission content, while obviously noticeable, doesn't really bother me.
I suppose it makes sense from an economic perspective, Square probably wants this to be "Destiny, but a Beat Em' Up", so that people are playing it for 5+ years and spending money on it and having co-op sessions every day and raking in money. And if I recall correctly, the marketing campaign kind of set those expectations. But for me it's like...mostly fine as is, and anything new content that happens is a nice bonus? *shrug*
Well, I had some expectations over the title, but considering that on my country, the price of it on PC was like 90 USD with the current currency, I decided to let it go and see how the things turned in the end.
IMO, most of the subjectiveness of the game discussed of the video (Kamala Khan as protagonist instead of any of the other well-known Avengers, mechanics hidden behind QTE, models of characters and so on), none of them removes the weight of the real problems of the game: How bad and repetitve the combat is, how the core of the game which was supposed to be an rpg is faulty, how draconic the monetization of this game is and how NO ONE WANTED A FUCKING GAAS.
Well, being fair, I don't know if someone else wanted a Game as a Service, but I certainly didn't.
When I think in Avengers, I generally think on Captain America, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk, with some extra characters on the pocket. When I think in Square-Enix, I generally think on RPGs with great visuals and a half-decent story telling and world-building. When I think in Crystal Dynamics, I generally think on good action games when directioned in the right way.
Can I see some of it on Marvel's Avengers? No, definitelly, only a bunch of unfinished ideas, mistaken scopes, pretentions and uncontrolled greed. I mean, it's obvious that they wanted to release expansions for the game in the future adding characters like Wolverine and villains like Doom or Thanos in way that Destiny did with TTK.
In an ideal world, Marvel's Avengers would have been a mix of Injustice, Soul Reaver, Ace Combat, Hulk: Ultimate Destruction and Bayonetta. Now it's just a wasted potential.
IMO, most of the subjectiveness of the game discussed of the video (Kamala Khan as protagonist instead of any of the other well-known Avengers, mechanics hidden behind QTE, models of characters and so on), none of them removes the weight of the real problems of the game: How bad and repetitve the combat is, how the core of the game which was supposed to be an rpg is faulty, how draconic the monetization of this game is and how NO ONE WANTED A FUCKING GAAS.
Well, being fair, I don't know if someone else wanted a Game as a Service, but I certainly didn't.
When I think in Avengers, I generally think on Captain America, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk, with some extra characters on the pocket. When I think in Square-Enix, I generally think on RPGs with great visuals and a half-decent story telling and world-building. When I think in Crystal Dynamics, I generally think on good action games when directioned in the right way.
Can I see some of it on Marvel's Avengers? No, definitelly, only a bunch of unfinished ideas, mistaken scopes, pretentions and uncontrolled greed. I mean, it's obvious that they wanted to release expansions for the game in the future adding characters like Wolverine and villains like Doom or Thanos in way that Destiny did with TTK.
In an ideal world, Marvel's Avengers would have been a mix of Injustice, Soul Reaver, Ace Combat, Hulk: Ultimate Destruction and Bayonetta. Now it's just a wasted potential.
I never understood the addition of Kate Bishop, she seems like such an anomaly of a character. We're bot getting any other Young Avengers so why bother adding her?
I came back for Kate, did the story content and then uninstalled the game. Couple days later I reinstalled the game and started leveling Thor. I really like playing as Thor and will be taking him to max.
I wouldn't call the game dead. I always get players in matchmaking (very rare to get a whole squad though). The endgame is non existent. Avengers Initiative is the MP mode, but Mega Hives are single player only.
Whomever is making or made the decisions on content release is incompetent. Game can make a comeback with continuous, consistent content releases, I think/hope.
I wouldn't call the game dead. I always get players in matchmaking (very rare to get a whole squad though). The endgame is non existent. Avengers Initiative is the MP mode, but Mega Hives are single player only.
Whomever is making or made the decisions on content release is incompetent. Game can make a comeback with continuous, consistent content releases, I think/hope.
Combat is one of the game's true strong points.
I definitely did. Million of people love and engage daily with these kids of ongoing games. Since dropping Destiny I've been looking for something to fill that void and hav ebeen constantly let down by The Division, Anthem, Warframe and Avengers.
I remember hearing the same kind of thing about battlefield V post release.
Not the same studio, not the same publisher, so hopefully not the same result.
I dunno, I think MP shooters are very different. Losing that launch momentum/community is lethal in that space. GaaS genre I feel isn't that punishing if you can come back with content and needed changes.
Kate is one of the best characters in the game. Maybe the devs just liked her. It's also a good way to introduce her to a wider audience ahead of her MCU push.
Pull the breaks, MCU don't need more advetisement, all of those products are a gold mine in itself.
The game:
• Does not want to associate with MCU
• Failing and crumbling before our eyes
• Doesn't even have main Avengers
Pumping Black Panther or Spiderman should be their main priority. Grab Wolverine as a sexy exotic option since the game was so obviously tried to NOT be the MCU adaptation. The game cannot afford to slot infamous heroes first, needs to prioritize the most desirable/popular first.
Also, from the content variety standpoint. Do you really need 2 archers back-to-back?
It comes down to how much work they put in the game moving forward. The game has a pretty solid foundation so adding more content should alleviate most of its issues, but it's up to the producers.
While I agree with this 100%, it's also kind of the consequences of their own marketing. They focused so much on selling it as "a new Destiny" that we had to wait for reports from reviewers to know that you can in fact play through the campaign without grinding online missions. If they sold it as a AAA 12 hour long cinematic single player campaign with a multiplayer component, Era would likely be kinder to it.
Yeah, that's not it, seeing as the game already runs at 60fps on the PS5, through BC.
They need new content, but the launch was such a mess that they had to fix the game, before releasing new content.
A tale as old as time, when it comes to GaaS games.
From what the devs were talking, by now, the game should've received 3 heroes and at least one more raid, or something like that.
And all they got was Kate Bishop. Which, altough I hear she is very fun to play, is a very lackluster name, considering all the heroes they have available.
And worse, because her story is tied to Hawkeye, the next hero is... Hawkeye.
So, players got two months of no content, and then 2 archers back-to-back. You hate to see it...
Black Panther should've probably been out by now, but the delays pushed him back. All this stuff is story driven and planned far in advance. If Kate's DLC released when it was supposed to, it wouldn't be such an issue.
Also, the game wants to associate with the MCU so hard that it's feels like early Agents of Shield most of the time.
Same :/ Exclusive characters were fun when everyone gets a different one, like Soul Calibur II. This "pay the same, get less" kind of exclusivity sucks.
I like how he says it's not so RPG-ish and it's more of an action game. I'd be down for a Marvel themed DMC-lite I guess, but I need more characters and a deep discount.
Got the game anyway during BF for €25, but you lot not instilling a lot of hope hahah!
Not that I care about end game stuff anyway, I'm more in it for campaign and trying out the various characters they add over time. Should be half decent by the time I try it out (next gen upgrade )
Not that I care about end game stuff anyway, I'm more in it for campaign and trying out the various characters they add over time. Should be half decent by the time I try it out (next gen upgrade )