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Thorakai

Thorakai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,233
I think Cypress Hill has a lot of explaining to do then.

I haven't listened to them before, but I am taking a listen to their tracks and games don't really represent Spanglish like that, and that's my whole issue. Cypress Hill switches between English and Spanish seamlessly multiple times within a sentence/verse, other times do single-word Spanish inserts in a verse, or other times cycle between a few verses in Spanish and others in English. There are songs where its all English only too. There is a lot of variety on display here that isn't in games. I actually think having the writer try to write a poem or rap in Spanglish could be a good test to see how equipped a writer might be to write dialogue haha.

Not sure if you played it and not sure if it's a better implementation, but in Miles Morales, Miles' mom was doing the opposite where she would mostly speak in Spanish when talking with him and sprinkle English words here and there iirc.

I haven't yet, but a lot of people in this thread have mentioned the game. I am very much looking forward to it, but I played the original Spider-Man + DLC like very shortly before Miles Morales release so I'm taking a break from that gameplay style before diving-in. From what I've seen on YouTube the Spanglish there sounds great to me. Someone from Insomniac posted in this thread as well confirming a lot of work was put in to make it authentic and I've seen that same sentiment in their dev walkthroughs and interviews. That is what I really hope all devs would be doing.

Speaking of NY, I look forward to see what Brass Lion Entertainment whips up in Corner Wolves, a game played from the perspective of Jacinte, a young Afro-Latina character, in mid-'90s Harlem.

Thanks for sharing this! Sounds like an interesting project. Will be on the lookout for more info on it when its shared.
 
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LordBaztion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
Lima Perú
I understand its cartoonish and very likely represents wrongly that demographics but I kinda like it, it's funny. I guess if they want to a seroius game, they should avoid it.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
As a native Spanish speaker, I sometimes mix English words when I'm speaking. And many other people do. Of course, it also needs to sound natural. Which isn't the case in the examples OP posted. Writers, if you want to mix Spanish words, at least do it right.

The whole discussion around the word "Latinx" always reminds me of this video:

It's rather curious how most of the people trying to push this term live in the USA. From my point of view, the biggest problem with the way this word is used is the huge influence USA has over the world. Give it some time and all the people from LATAM will be put in the same bag and referred to as "Latinx" and that sucks, because we are all vastly different when it comes to our cultures and languages. Hell, USA already imposed the term "Latino" on us and it's already impossible to change that. I don't think our way of speaking has to be bound to your linguistic approaches and your increasingly fixation on words.
Personally, I hate the word Latinx. Progressive here are already pushing that gendered nouns end with '-e' for being more inclusive to non-binary people. Latine. Amigue. Elle.
 
Jun 24, 2021
1,637
I've seen the x used in written text outside of white academy since years and years ago here in Chile (Todxs, Nosotrxs, etc).
I'll admit I've seen those examples too in written form but the problem with those is they may sort of work when written down but, pray tell, how do you pronounce those out loud? This is an honest question because I don't know, in my mind I just read Todos, Nosotros, because I literally cannot say "Todecks" or "Todequis". And I'm not even going to get into the whole ableism problem when you realize that those words would completely fuck up text to speech aids.
 
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Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
I'll admit I've seen those examples too in written form but the problem with those is they may sort of work when written down but, pray tell, how do you pronounce those out loud? This is an honest question because I don't know, in my mind I just read Todos, Nosotros, because I literatura cannot say "Todecks" or "Todequis". And I'm not even going to get into the whole ableism problem when you realize that those words would completely fuck up text to speech aids.

Yep, that's a valid concern and I really get it. It's not much of a problem for me personally, I kinda just mute the word when I'm reading it in my head but I rather use Todes or Nosotres than Todxs or Nosotrxs. I just don't look at it as some white thing being pushed in our local throats, because it isn't coming from them. But in the US may be the case so, I understand
 

kyo2004

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,580
Bogotá D.C.
For my PoV, the problem is the context and the setup.

1. If the story is written from the perspective of a Latin American just landing on a foreign country (and assuming that person/character has a decent knowlegde of that country language), it's understandable that their dialogue could combine some words from their mother language (though is always too formulaic and cliche).

2. If is from the perspective of a Latin American with high fluency on the foreign language, there's NO need to sprinkle spanish words to make the point of the characterization. Just our accent when we speak something should be sufficient to get the idea.

3. If a story has a setup on a Latin American country (real or fictional), and most of their characters are latin americans, it's absurd to try to slap a foreign language as the main language and then, use some words in spanish to justiify their inclusion (Basically a mini rant on Far Cry 6).

---

On the Latinx discussion, the sole fact that the -e suffix isn't present in the title of the thread is a lost cause and a example on how little the opinion is valued from someone from a South America or Latin American country.
 

BrandoBoySP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,177
As you said, it's 3% but in the US

The biggest issue with both "Latinx" and the Spanglish topic is that latin america is such a diverse concept that any broad statement about how much acceptable it is or not will probably be wrong.

I've seen the x used in written text outside of white academy since years and years ago here in Chile (Todxs, Nosotrxs, etc). A lot of people hate it here, but then you need to start asking if they hate it because it's hard to use it in spoken spanish (a valid concern imo), or because it's gender neutral. The use of the "e" is starting to be used more broadly (Todes, Nosotres, etc.), and it gets a lot - and I mean A LOT - of pushback because it's a "profanity of language" and "we already have gender neutral, just use the o"

So when some people here say that the latinx it's just a white thing, I am baffled. Then it hits me, that's probably the case for Latino Americanos, as in, Latines that live in the US.

So that research shouldn't really be drilled into everyone's mind because that just alienates latines from the rest of the world because of an American thing.

Thank you. It feels like discussion of "Latinx" ends up conflating "white people made it up" (which is false), "don't you dare use it for latine people unless they say to," "you're colonizing our language," how LatAm people both inside and outside of the USA would react to it, and the actual criticisms of the term itself, making it nearly impossible to actually discuss the dang thing.

Like, there are so many different nuances here. Not every LatAm person speaks Spanish (from people whose parents/ancestors immigrated to the USA and didn't teach them the language to areas where Spanish isn't the primary language), which is a point against "it's hard to say." At the same time, it CAN be difficult to say for people who speak Spanish natively, and we can't deny how widespread Spanish is for us.

For those of us that don't speak Spanish or have a hard time with it, especially if we grew up outside of a Latin American or even South American country, "it's hard to say" comes across to me less like "let's find something that works internationally" and more like "shut up, we don't need this." And then we get into the small percentage of people polled that do use it--of course it would be a small percentage. Most people fall into the gender binary! Unless you're someone that's in a queer space, feminist space, or are otherwise in-the-know about "Latinx"/"Latine"/etc., it's only natural to use the gendered version.

And then all of that is before we even get into the pushback against gender-neutral terms, the existence of homophobia, the existence of transphobia, etc.

It's interesting that you say it seems like it's mostly USA-based LatAm people refer to it as something that white people created! I was under the impression that, regardless of news headlines and such using it, it came primarily from Latinx/Latine people here in the States.

Personally, I find it frustrating when people actively tell others not to use "Latinx" to refer to LatAm people as a whole. As you said, it's meant to be a gender-neutral term--not just a term for people who don't fit within the gender binary, but also a way to refer to groups of LatAm people as a whole without defaulting to "Latino" if there's even just a single man in the group. I've switched over to "Latine" myself, but I view it kind of like I do "queer," though the history is vastly different. It's an umbrella term that not everyone has to like, and if someone doesn't want to be referred to with it, that's totally fine... but trying to make it off-limits as an umbrella term itself is not, imo.
 

Gloomz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,402
Do you do it when speaking to someone you know doesn't speak anything but English?

The issue is the tendency to portray us Latin Americans as incapable of forming a sentence without splicing Spanish into it no matter who we're speaking with or the context.

Yeah, but it depends who it is.

I'm Italian by the way, not sure if that's relevant.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
Thank you. It feels like discussion of "Latinx" ends up conflating "white people made it up" (which is false), "don't you dare use it for latine people unless they say to," "you're colonizing our language," how LatAm people both inside and outside of the USA would react to it, and the actual criticisms of the term itself, making it nearly impossible to actually discuss the dang thing.

Like, there are so many different nuances here. Not every LatAm person speaks Spanish (from people whose parents/ancestors immigrated to the USA and didn't teach them the language to areas where Spanish isn't the primary language), which is a point against "it's hard to say." At the same time, it CAN be difficult to say for people who speak Spanish natively, and we can't deny how widespread Spanish is for us.

For those of us that don't speak Spanish or have a hard time with it, especially if we grew up outside of a Latin American or even South American country, "it's hard to say" comes across to me less like "let's find something that works internationally" and more like "shut up, we don't need this." And then we get into the small percentage of people polled that do use it--of course it would be a small percentage. Most people fall into the gender binary! Unless you're someone that's in a queer space, feminist space, or are otherwise in-the-know about "Latinx"/"Latine"/etc., it's only natural to use the gendered version.

And then all of that is before we even get into the pushback against gender-neutral terms, the existence of homophobia, the existence of transphobia, etc.

It's interesting that you say it seems like it's mostly USA-based LatAm people refer to it as something that white people created! I was under the impression that, regardless of news headlines and such using it, it came primarily from Latinx/Latine people here in the States.

Personally, I find it frustrating when people actively tell others not to use "Latinx" to refer to LatAm people as a whole. As you said, it's meant to be a gender-neutral term--not just a term for people who don't fit within the gender binary, but also a way to refer to groups of LatAm people as a whole without defaulting to "Latino" if there's even just a single man in the group. I've switched over to "Latine" myself, but I view it kind of like I do "queer," though the history is vastly different. It's an umbrella term that not everyone has to like, and if someone doesn't want to be referred to with it, that's totally fine... but trying to make it off-limits as an umbrella term itself is not, imo.
It's not really "colonising our language", but it is shoehorning an English word into the vocabulary of a population that mostly can't pronounce it. In the end this is a pointless discussion because love it or hate it, "latinx" is barely a thing in the US and it's definitely not going become a thing outside of the US. We're talking about a population that struggles with words like Netflix or Google. It'd be like trying to make English speakers as a whole say "karaoke" the way it sounds in its original language. 100% not happening.
 

KartuneDX

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
2,381
It's not really "colonising our language", but it is shoehorning an English word into the vocabulary of a population that mostly can't pronounce it. In the end this is a pointless discussion because love it or hate it, "latinx" is barely a thing in the US and it's definitely not going become a thing outside of the US. We're talking about a population that struggles with words like Netflix or Google. It'd be like trying to make English speakers as a whole say "karaoke" the way it sounds in its original language. 100% not happening.

The amount of times Ive heard "latin-equis" in reference to Latinx lol
 

Hesdry

Member
Oct 28, 2017
417
Brasil
My biggest issue with the Spanish language is how gendered it is, so I am heavily in favor of updating the language to be more gender neutral. In other words, I think our language should evolve, even if it comes from English.

My congratulations, this was one of the most colonized and elistist things I've ever heard.
 
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Jun 24, 2021
1,637
My biggest issue with the Spanish language is how gendered it is, so I am heavily in favor of updating the language to be more gender neutral.
It'll be an uphill battle but some are trying to work out something that works inside the rules of the Spanish language which, small detail, does not include Latinx
I think our language should evolve, even if it comes from English.
And you just threw in the towel before you began the fight. My monolingual coworkers (and mom) have a hard time pronouncing "Google" but sure, let's make them say "ellx" and "abogadx".
 
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deliquate

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Feb 25, 2021
2,253
Another thing that totally bugs me about this bad writing habit--not as a native Spanish speaker but as a native English speaker who's spent several years abroad in places where I struggle to communicate--the book/game writers usually replace words in a way that's meant to be understandable to the viewer and completely unrelated to the realities of trying to communicate in a foreign language.

It's so clearly for flavor. A highly artificial flavor. Like you have Spanish speakers saying, "Si" instead of "Yes" and French speakers saying, "Oui," instead of "Yes," and, from personal experience, I learn 'Yes' and 'No' in a foreign language pretty quickly and then stick to them, because you remember the words that you repeat all the time so it's easy to find and use the right word.

I'm most likely to resort to English when I don't know the equivalent in the ambient language--i.e., it'll be a specific or uncommon word I'm looking for, something that I haven't learned yet. It's usually useless to speak it aloud in English, because nobody will understand, and I'd do it out of frustration.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,215
As a native Spanish speaker, I sometimes mix English words when I'm speaking. And many other people do. Of course, it also needs to sound natural. Which isn't the case in the examples OP posted. Writers, if you want to mix Spanish words, at least do it right.


Personally, I hate the word Latinx. Progressive here are already pushing that gendered nouns end with '-e' for being more inclusive to non-binary people. Latine. Amigue. Elle.
I like this better than x.
 
Jun 24, 2021
1,637
I just thought about a great example of something that SHOULD have had code switching but it didn't.

Remember "24" the tv show? In season 3 the bad guys were Mexican drug lords and the few words they spoke in Spanish were soooooo bad. One of them was called Hector but his very Mexican brother would pronounce it "jector" instead of how you'd do it in Spanish where the "H" is silent (eh-ctor). I clearly remember a scene where these brothers were both in Mexico surrounded by Mexicans and they'd keep speaking English to themselves. If there was a scene where code switching should've happened was then!
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
It'll be an uphill battle but some are trying to work out something that works inside the rules of the Spanish language which, small detail, does not include Latinx

And you just threw in the towel before you began the fight. My monolingual coworkers have a hard time pronouncing "Google" but sure, let's make them say "ellx" and "abogadx".
El ele equis
Aboga de equis

See, this is why the X doesn't work in Spanish. X is a consonant, not a vowel. It is better elle or abogade... Well, abogade still sounds weird, although better than abogadx. Damn, I love my language, but at the same time I hate it.
 
Jun 24, 2021
1,637
El ele equis
Aboga de equis

See, this is why the X doesn't work in Spanish. X is a consonant, not a vowel. It is better elle or abogade... Well, abogade still sounds weird, although better than abogadx. Damn, I love my language, but at the same time I hate it.
Now try converting abogadx and ellx to plural. Have fun trying to pronounce "abogadxs".
 

Neophy

Member
Dec 6, 2018
109
Well, I'm a Latino and I'm fine with, I like it actually. However I'm up for improvements.
 

Hesdry

Member
Oct 28, 2017
417
Brasil
Besides the fact that it is elitist and colonized, in Spanish and Portuguese it is not possible to speak "Latinx" and people with dyslexia cannot even read. Not to mention that it hinders reading software for people with vision problems. LatinE is much more inclusive and easy.
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,359
TBH the first time I saw "Latinx" I thought it was some kind of porn thing due to the whole "X rated" thing, the fetishisation of Latin American women and knowing enough about Spanish to know Latinx couldn't be a Spanish word. For the time being I'll happily sit back, shut up and let Latin American people decide what they want to be called.

I sometimes use Scots or Scottish-English words when speaking to Australian friends and family, much to their confusion, but that's because I didn't realise they weren't common words in English. It's a totally different circumstance. When speaking Japanese, the only time I've slipped in English words is because I haven't known the Japanese word so I've consciously decided to try my luck with the English word. It has never been a "oops just slipping foreign word in by accident or because I never learned a super common word like 'friend' or 'yes'" kind of thing.

While code switching is a real phenomenon, it's circumstantial and happens for a reason. I always found characters slipping Spanish words in to be endearing, but "making a character cute by seasoning their English with Spanish" isn't a great reason. I can see how that might be frustrating or insulting to Latin American people. I've never really considered how weird it was for fictional characters to do this. Thanks for the food for thought.
 

Cipher Peon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,801
It'll be an uphill battle but some are trying to work out something that works inside the rules of the Spanish language which, small detail, does not include Latinx

And you just threw in the towel before you began the fight. My monolingual coworkers (and mom) have a hard time pronouncing "Google" but sure, let's make them say "ellx" and "abogadx".
I respect that and you're absolutely right, of course! I am always in favor for more inclusivity.

I agree that trying to convince my parents to adopt a more gender neutral Spanish would be impossible, which is one of the reasons I haven't told them that I am nonbinary. I don't really know what best to do, just know my own preferences haha
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
It's not really "colonising our language", but it is shoehorning an English word into the vocabulary of a population that mostly can't pronounce it. In the end this is a pointless discussion because love it or hate it, "latinx" is barely a thing in the US and it's definitely not going become a thing outside of the US. We're talking about a population that struggles with words like Netflix or Google. It'd be like trying to make English speakers as a whole say "karaoke" the way it sounds in its original language. 100% not happening.

As I said, I've read it used here in Chile since years ago, and not from academia or white or any US thing. Latines from outside the US can come up with these ideas in our own, you know. Most of the people who were looking for a gender neutral term are probably shifting to using the "e" instead of the "x" because of the vocal implementation being hard. But I would love to end this us/anglo centric pov that everything has to be a thing coming from there instead of different countries evolving their/our own language.

Because of the same, it would be great to hear a wider variety of latines in games and media with different ways of speaking english or spanglish.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
As I said, I've read it used here in Chile since years ago, and not from academia or white or any US thing. Latines from outside the US can come up with these ideas in our own, you know. Most of the people who were looking for a gender neutral term are probably shifting to using the "e" instead of the "x" because of the vocal implementation being hard. But I would love to end this us/anglo centric pov that everything has to be a thing coming from there instead of different countries evolving their/our own language.

Because of the same, it would be great to hear a wider variety of latines in games and media with different ways of speaking english or spanglish.
I'm strictly talking about latinx and not latine, which is a word that works in Spanish.

Now, as someone from Chile, would you say the percentage of Chileans who use latinx rivals America's 3%?
 
Jun 24, 2021
1,637

That's the first time in my life I've heard the phrase "Viva México!" said in a thick Japanese accent.

This is going to sound weird but Ramón is a very rare type of representation of Mexico. He is a white, blonde, blue eyed Mexican, which they exist. They're a minority of course but the do exist and not only because their parents are foreigners or they themselves immigrated, there's white blonde Mexicans who've been here for generations so it's also nice to see.

When it comes to Hollywood movies/tv and Japanese media if it's a Mexican 99% of the time they'll be brown, and that's fine, most ppl look like that, but Mexico is a diverse country too (we have Asians, blacks, and other minorities too but not as many as the US).

Now if only we could have more Mexicans in fighting games who's fighting style is something else besides Lucha Libre. You'd think that's the only martial art we know about.
I'm strictly talking about latinx and not latine, which is a word that works in Spanish.

Now, as someone from Chile, would you say the percentage of Chileans who use latinx rivals America's 3%?
I'll honestly be surprised if that number is anywhere close to 0.5% in any Latin American country. Hell, probably not even 0.2%.
 
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Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
I'm strictly talking about latinx and not latine, which is a word that works in Spanish.

Now, as someone from Chile, would you say the percentage of Chileans who use latinx rivals America's 3%?

I would say that it doesn't matter. Using the "x" has been used in written words for a long time but it's being replaced by the "e", which is what I was refering to. Both are still a very early way of speaking in an evolving language that has no gender neutral and has been trying to come up with one.

If people really want to take percentage of use to figure out a correct one, then the only correct one is "o/a", thus, "Latino/Latina". But that sucks for non-binary folks. So it would be great if we also stop the % nonsense and let latines from all over the world evolve our own language.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
I would say that it doesn't matter. Using the "x" has been used in written words for a long time but it's being replaced by the "e", which is what I was refering to. Both are still a very early way of speaking in an evolving language that has no gender neutral and has been trying to come up with one.

If people really want to take percentage of use to figure out a correct one, then the only correct one is "o/a", thus, "Latino/Latina". But that sucks for non-binary folks. So it would be great if we also stop the % nonsense and let latines from all over the world evolve our own language.
We are not disagreeing at all. I just think an unpronounceable word is even less likely to become widespread, it works against what you want it to achieve. Again, latine is a much more elegant solution.
 

BrandoBoySP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,177
It's not really "colonising our language", but it is shoehorning an English word into the vocabulary of a population that mostly can't pronounce it. In the end this is a pointless discussion because love it or hate it, "latinx" is barely a thing in the US and it's definitely not going become a thing outside of the US. We're talking about a population that struggles with words like Netflix or Google. It'd be like trying to make English speakers as a whole say "karaoke" the way it sounds in its original language. 100% not happening.

I wouldn't say it's pointless considering it's a genuine point of concern for LatAm non-binary people, trans people, and anyone else who would like to see a gender-neutral term, but yeah, I think "Latine" probably works better as a whole for the purposes of Spanish-native speakers, for English-native speakers, and for all the other LatAm languages and dialects.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
I wouldn't say it's pointless considering it's a genuine point of concern for LatAm non-binary people, trans people, and anyone else who would like to see a gender-neutral term, but yeah, I think "Latine" probably works better as a whole for the purposes of Spanish-native speakers, for English-native speakers, and for all the other LatAm languages and dialects.
I've said it before but I have nothing against "latine" which works perfectly in Spanish.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,372
Edit: I'm editing to add a note that some posters have pointed out that Motoi's specific use of Spanish might be purposeful as a means to characterize them as a type of show-off. I'm holding off on condemning the character itself until full release of the game, but keeping the links as an example of the type of Spanglish that seem to dominate media.

Motoi is portrayed in the game as a pretentious self-described globetrotter who frequently uses foreign words - not just Spanish, but also French, Italian and German - to make himself look smarter. It's a repeating joke throughout the game that his frequent use of random foreign words and his overall attitude of self-importance and cheesiness leads to even his team mates being often unable to understand him. He is not portrayed in-game as someone of foreign/Spanish descent (don't know if there's any material outside of the game that portrays him as such).
 

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,614
Motoi is portrayed in the game as a pretentious self-described globetrotter who frequently uses foreign words - not just Spanish, but also French, Italian and German - to make himself look smarter. It's a repeating joke throughout the game that his frequent use of random foreign words and his overall attitude of self-importance and cheesiness leads to even his team mates being often unable to understand him. He is not portrayed in-game as someone of foreign/Spanish descent (don't know if there's any material outside of the game that portrays him as such).


He actually specifically says he is "as Japanese as curry rice," so I doubt he has any foreign descent. I just get the impression he's supposed to be like... A reverse weeb who likes to sprinkle these words in conversation because he thinks it's cool lol.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
20,757
game writing can be stereotypical and bad. I wonder, what did everyone here think of the writing for the brothers in LiS2, or Manny in TLOU2? Language switching can definitely be better in games, since I didn't learn Spanish until recently, I assuming I'm missing some of the most glaring offenses.

tho stuff like DG where characters are just repeating the same thing in two languages is obvious and should really only be used once, if at all.

edit: removed part of my original post. It's not my place to engage in this dialogue as I don't have any agency in the discussion.
 
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Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
26,770
Florida
I find it really awkward. I grew up with Mexican families and they never used it, so I always found it strange. My best friend is Cuban and has never done this as well, but does the opposite: when talking to his parents in Spanish, he will randomly throw out English words, words I know for a fact have Spanish versions, just for emphasis.
 

CosmicElement

Member
Oct 27, 2017
726
Depends on the context. I have many friends that speak 'Spanglish' or a mix of English and their own primary/secondary languages. If it's portrayed in a respectful manner and not as parody or racist then it's fine.
 

¡Hip Hop!

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,837
I live in SoCal, so this is pretty common thing in a lot of conversations w/my Mexican and South American friends/coworkers (in a more natural way, not like the World Ends with You bullshit, lol). I think it would be less authentic to get rid of it altogether. It's just a matter of doing it naturally.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
So, Forza Horizon 5 is maybe the latest culprit? It sounds like parody and inauthentic. They exclusively choose words that non-speakers would understand intuitively, like "fantástico" and "Español"

I know that some Mexicans do use "Spanglish" but in my experience it isn't like this. It sounds like pandering to white people and turning Mexicans into caricatures to give a more exotic feel
 

raketenrolf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,205
Germany
So, Forza Horizon 5 is maybe the latest culprit? It sounds like parody and inauthentic. They exclusively choose words that non-speakers would understand intuitively, like "fantástico" and "Español"

I know that some Mexicans do use "Spanglish" but in my experience it isn't like this. It sounds like pandering to white people and turning Mexicans into caricatures to give a more exotic feel
I am not mexican but it's annoying and sounds cringey when they constantly talk like this.

Would skip all the cutscenes and dialogue if I could.
 

Mortal Mario

Member
Apr 15, 2019
763
UK
So, Forza Horizon 5 is maybe the latest culprit? It sounds like parody and inauthentic. They exclusively choose words that non-speakers would understand intuitively, like "fantástico" and "Español"

I know that some Mexicans do use "Spanglish" but in my experience it isn't like this. It sounds like pandering to white people and turning Mexicans into caricatures to give a more exotic feel

Didn't they hire Lalo Alcaraz to be their cultural consultant? I remember seeing an interview on one of the pre-release things in which he spoke about going over the whole script and making changes. He seemed happy with it, but I'm from the UK like the production team so I have no idea how authentic any of it is. Not a fan of the dialogue in general in the games.
 

Vinx

Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,412
Didn't they hire Lalo Alcaraz to be their cultural consultant? I remember seeing an interview on one of the pre-release things in which he spoke about going over the whole script and making changes. He seemed happy with it, but I'm from the UK like the production team so I have no idea how authentic any of it is. Not a fan of the dialogue in general in the games.
They did

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/10/22/authentically-celebrating-culture-of-mexico-forza-horizon-5/

"I'm a cultural consultant that can advise you on whether something is authentic or not, but then I can pitch alternatives on the spot," said Alcaraz. "I can do it in the voice of the character because I'm also a writer. And that's actually my favorite part."

So, even when they get a Mexican consultant for authentic story and characters people still accuse them of being inauthentic.
 

trashbandit

Member
Dec 19, 2019
3,910
I am convinced that any writer that does this has never actually interacted with Hispanic people for any length of time.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,363
I figured this kind of thing was fairly common for all languages in English media, not just Spanish
 

norealmx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
722
Seattle, WA
They did

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/10/22/authentically-celebrating-culture-of-mexico-forza-horizon-5/

"I'm a cultural consultant that can advise you on whether something is authentic or not, but then I can pitch alternatives on the spot," said Alcaraz. "I can do it in the voice of the character because I'm also a writer. And that's actually my favorite part."

So, even when they get a Mexican consultant for authentic story and characters people still accuse them of being inauthentic.
Every review from Mexican sources complains how utterly ridiculous it sounds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
They did

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/10/22/authentically-celebrating-culture-of-mexico-forza-horizon-5/

"I'm a cultural consultant that can advise you on whether something is authentic or not, but then I can pitch alternatives on the spot," said Alcaraz. "I can do it in the voice of the character because I'm also a writer. And that's actually my favorite part."

So, even when they get a Mexican consultant for authentic story and characters people still accuse them of being inauthentic.
Argument from authority fallacy, no? I'm sure he did a lot of good, but that doesn't mean there wasn't direction from other people that he agreed to.

Every review from Mexican sources complains how utterly ridiculous it sounds.
Yeah and a couple of my Mexican friends (born/raised but now live in Canada) are not fans.
 

Zebesian-X

Member
Dec 3, 2018
19,695
They did

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/10/22/authentically-celebrating-culture-of-mexico-forza-horizon-5/

"I'm a cultural consultant that can advise you on whether something is authentic or not, but then I can pitch alternatives on the spot," said Alcaraz. "I can do it in the voice of the character because I'm also a writer. And that's actually my favorite part."

So, even when they get a Mexican consultant for authentic story and characters people still accuse them of being inauthentic.
You'd think if the goal was to recreate a real-life setting that you'd hire some full-time writers from the region to handle the dialogue.

It makes me wonder how involved this consulting role really was, seeing how other people from Mexico are picking up on it
 

Black Mantis

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,106
It's really grating in FH5. Living in Spain, I've met a few Mexicans and whenever I converse with them in English, they never insert Spanish words randomly like that.