-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Deadline: WB was prepared to move on to Matrix 4 without the Wachowskis. WB still wants a fifth movie and for Lana to return.
- Thread starter ContractHolder
- Start date
- News Entertainment
Using the Nemesis System that Monolith has, imagine the orcs are agents or programs coming after you. Every time you kill them they learn and "re-write" themselves to hunt you down more effectively.
I mean have you seen red notice? Can't get any more trashy than that film.
I wouldn't mind another one however I need more entertainment than Resurrections which I think just wasn't very good beyond the story distilled to make it sound better than it was told and shown. I think someone else could do it better but you always risk falling into pale imitations, competent empty vessels or callbacks and suddenly you're the Matrix version of the Terminator franchise.
Tbh he was looking a little long in the tooth in this movie. And looked quite frankly bored in the first half of the movie.
Also the terminator franchise should have ended with T2 they were never going to top that. Each film has failed to understand what made the original and then T2 work so well. I've always said if they wanted to reboot Terminator they should strip it down to it's original sci fi horror roots.
Plus other Matrix media have shown we can have other stories that don't have to explicitly involve Neo
But I guess with the ending of this movie they could have a clean break.
I will have no slander against the Fifth element.
I love everything about it but the ending :(. It's such a fun movie.
Yeah, they went meta and pretty much made it clear in movie what was going on. It shouldn't have been made imo. The parts of the movie that actually were the sequel seemed like a high budget WB show.
They 'peaked' by making one of the best Hollywood films of the past 30 years. Trying to live up to the original Matrix was always a fool's errand.
Trying to give it to some other creative to make a "fresh take" will only result in a pale imitation of the original film, minus the trans allegory that's integral to the series as a whole. A net loss and a catastrophic waste of time, money and energy.
The GF made me and to keep her happy you do what you gotta do.
I liked the new matrix but it's crazy WB wants another one, not just with how it ended but like isn't it doing awful in the box office? it's gotta be doing numbers on max or something.
Their last few movies were Jupiter Ascending, Cloud Atlas, Speed Racer. (And Resurrections if we're only talking about Lana)... they "peaked" as in their latest output is far more indicative and what we're going to get than say Bound or the original Matrix.
By fresh take, I'm not asking for a reboot or imitation of the first. That's probably the worst case scenario, which is why I said I don't trust WB because that's very much the route they would/will take. However, if Lana (obviously WB would have to sign off on it) handed off The Matrix's next film to an a new voice that she trusts and believes in, someone that isn't interested in a pale imitation or ripping out the trans allegory?
I'd be more okay if WB just let the franchise rest but they probably keep looking at potential dollars and going, yeah we're running this into the ground.
Last edited:
Wouldn't the horrendous box office suggest that the franchise has already been run into the ground? The film is set to loose $100 million+ depending on just how big the budget was.
The fact that it released day and date on HBO Max makes that a more complicated discussion though, even though the box office result was clearly terrible.
The original article mentions despite the critical/fan reaction and box office numbers WB is still interested in a 5th Matrix. So it seems like they want another one.
Honestly, let the IP die
People are not going to be happy either way
People either don't want the Wachowskis back, or they don't want any more mainline entries without them. The films have been performing worse and worse in the box office, and in word of mouth with each passing entry. Just let it die. The draw for general audiences is gone, the optics of dropping the Wachowskis would be bad (ESPECIALLY considering WB continues filling JKR's pockets). Lets just keep it moving.
People are not going to be happy either way
People either don't want the Wachowskis back, or they don't want any more mainline entries without them. The films have been performing worse and worse in the box office, and in word of mouth with each passing entry. Just let it die. The draw for general audiences is gone, the optics of dropping the Wachowskis would be bad (ESPECIALLY considering WB continues filling JKR's pockets). Lets just keep it moving.
Big old piece of context folks
The "We are ready for Matrix 5 with Lana"' comment, came from a interview with WB's CEO... That came out in October prior to the movie's reception or Box Office results
WarnerMedia Toppers Bullish On ‘Dune’ Sequel & More ‘Sopranos’ & ‘Matrix’ Despite Muted Box Office Results In HBO Max Day/Date Experiment
WarnerMedia Bullish On Sequels Of 'Dune,' 'Sopranos,' 'Matrix' despite muted box office results from disruptive day/date HBO Max Modeldeadline.com
"Fresh takes" often suck ass, more often then they're not good anyway. People love the hype the idea of a "fresh take", but most "fresh takes" end up being poor to mediocre.
For every Creed and Batman Begins, there are many more "reboots" or "new take on existing IP" that are among this pile:
Alien Resurrection, Alien Covenant (yes Scott directed, but it's written by a new younger screenwriter with a "fresh new take"), Ghostbusters 2016, Terminator 3, Terminator Genisys, Terminator Salvation, Terminator: Dark Fate (lol see the pattern here?), Total Recall, Robocop 2014, The Mummy (Tom Cruise), Transporter Refueled, Fantastic 4, Amazing Spider-Man, Hellboy, Conan the Barbarian, Charlie's Angels 2019, Fantastic Beasts IP, Men In Black: International, Point Break, Pan 2015, The Lone Ranger, Nightmare on Elm Street, etc. etc. etc.
I mean even Star Wars ... most of the Star Wars community either hated one of TLJ or TROS or both and TFA has retroactively also fallen a lot due to "memberries syndrome".
🤷♀️
Prior to this film, all their work has been together. Lilly has directed two episodes of a tv show, but it would be hard to judge her off of that giving how television production usually works.
Only a select few people ever go on to create multiple legendary films, and most people never make one. So by that metric, they've been very successful. But then again, we never talk about most directors either, mostly just the elites or especially notable ones.
Regrettably, the Wachowskis have had not risen especially high since the Matrix. Sense8 was their best reviewed thing since The Matrix, but they were oscillating between "decent" and "poor" reviews for their feature films over that period. V for Vendetta in '06 is the last time they had a film that made it's money back at the box office.
It is in many ways fascinating to see somebody strike gold and then fail to replicate a fraction of that success again. Richard Kelly is probably an even more pure example of that where Donnie Darko was this unexpected cult hit on video and critics really loved it then [farting noises]. For the Wachowski's, if you took a snap shot in 2000 you'd probably assume they were going to have this absolutely monstrous career ahead of them, since the one-two punch of Bound and The Matrix was very impressive.
I'm reading The Man Who Heard Voices right now (book about the production of Lady in the Water) and holy SHIT the man had a fucking ego. He fully bought into his own hype.
I feel like most people gravitated towards the "peaked" part of my statement but what you said was what I was trying to say.
Resurrections was incredible, but it was also such a thorough dismantling of everything The Matrix ever was or could be that there really isn't any way to move forward. It broke the thing down to its core and then set that core free to fly away (literally). You can feel Lana Wachowski salting the Earth with every creative choice.
It was bold, messy, powerful, angry and beautiful but it was absolutely the end. The final coda on The Matrix as an idea in the cultural landscape. A soft epilogue. If there is an upside to the disappointing box office, it's that it may force WB to leave it alone.
That said, if they must continue it - HBO Max series starring Bugs and her crew, executive produced by both Wachowski sisters.
It was bold, messy, powerful, angry and beautiful but it was absolutely the end. The final coda on The Matrix as an idea in the cultural landscape. A soft epilogue. If there is an upside to the disappointing box office, it's that it may force WB to leave it alone.
That said, if they must continue it - HBO Max series starring Bugs and her crew, executive produced by both Wachowski sisters.
Red Notice looks like an Oscar winner compared to this last Matrix movie.
I keep seeing this same take over and over again, but what has stopped all those great directors you seem to imply are out there waiting for a chance to make a groundbreaking action move from making an groundbreaking action movie? Why haven't they done it outside this franchise? It's not like the next groundbreaking action movie needs to be a The Matrix movie.
They had over 20 years to top the original The Matrix. Why haven't them?
And although it's pretty much not intentional, the urge to take the biggest representation of trans media available out of trans hands is starting to rub me the wrong way.
User banned (permanent): Transphobic concern trolling. Account in junior phase
A question for the folks that "claim" The Matrix as trans media - did you value the movie as much when it was made by 2 brothers years before they transitioned and revealed that it was a trans allegory? And on what merits did you enjoy the movie before you decided it was just window dressing for the Wachowski sisters' personal journeys?
Your being insulting. And the original movie actually was a major part of why I tried (got beat up and scurried back into the closet) to come out 20 years ago. And your misgendering them to boot.
It doesn't need to be claimed as trans media, it is trans media. It was always made by two trans women too, to be clear. I'm not sure where the "before you decided it was just window dressing for [their] personal journeys" comes from, especially in that tone. The trans elements of the film, especially the first and the most recent one, are part and parcel of the experience. There's no window dressing, and people have dived into why Resurrections is as successful in its exploration of grief and overcoming loss as it is anything trans related. Similarly the original when viewed through the lens of being trans is just moving the prism. It doesn't devalue the other elements present, it emphasises them.
To your broader point though, I valued the movie a lot though 'as much' is a bit of a misnomer because obviously that value is emphasised with the perspective I now have both on it and myself. The themes of the original were poignant before I had the language to understand why, and obviously made more interesting by now having it and a shared experience.
I remember in 2012 when we annexed and won exclusive fandom rights to The Matrix. Cis libertarians, cyberpunk fans, and gamers were all forbidden from watching ever again.
E: oh and the religious too. I forgot it used to be looked at as a Jesus allegory before we queered it up.
Regardless if I got it at the time or not, The Matrix only exists because of the Trans experience of their directors. We can not, and we must not, disassociate these movies from their makers experience in the world, especially when there is so little trans experiences being reflected in mainstream art and cinema.
And yes. I did value it highly despite my ignorance. I only value it higher now.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...s-matrix-series-transgender-allegory-n1235927
Honestly, this whole post feels incredibly disingenuous, or at least extremely ignorant of the trans experience.
EDIT:
Oh, was that what they meant... so the post is really just full-blown being shitty?
Last edited:
Claim in scare quotes, only referring to the Wachowskis in masculine terms, I'm not giving any benefit of the doubt.
They did. At one point in time that were two The Matrix movies being developed. But WB went with Lana's version, thank Jaysus.
What are you even trying to "ask" here? What's the insinuation?
Please, fill us in. I'm sure it'll be totally normal and not transphobic at all.
I just hope whatever they do with it is good. I liked Bugs, for instance. Stories about rebels constantly on the edge of getting zeroed by machines are cool - the Animatrix was great. Next story doesn't have to be about Neo.
And if Lana doesn't direct, I hope she remains a consultant. And that an LGBT voice remains at the top of the creative pyramid, whether it is a Wachowski or someone else. Maybe multiple voices. Because that's definitely part of the Matrix's legacy.
And if Lana doesn't direct, I hope she remains a consultant. And that an LGBT voice remains at the top of the creative pyramid, whether it is a Wachowski or someone else. Maybe multiple voices. Because that's definitely part of the Matrix's legacy.
As much as I agree with the fact that Matrix has some trans elements, saying that Matrix only existed exist because of it is completely false, even Lana said that she didn't know how much of her transness was in the writing of it.
I am gonna be perfectly honest I never got any trans elements from the first movie back then when I saw it. Only until the comments by the Wachowskis made it more obvious. Then again back then I can't remember ever coming into contact with any trans media or trans people around me. Not having internet till I was 14 or 15 and smart phones not even existing yet added to the problem of discovering lgbtq+ communities and educating myself on them.