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DCEU Era |OT2| Joker's Wild
- Thread starter ody
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If it's any consolation, if BoP keeps up the hot streak going DC has had recently then you'll get to bathe in the salt of all the MCU fanboys. It's already been a rough week for them with Dr. Strange 2 confirmed to be another bland rehash of the Marvel Formula™
I didn't say they were masterpieces. Just misunderstood.
In the OT thread, even today, people keep prattling on about Batman's murderous Punisher-esque vigilantism, without acknowledging how he got there in the first place. In a way, BvS has similarities with Joker and how the films deal with mental disorders. Joker executed it better, but even Joker has a vocal group of detractors. You can read it here on ERA, citing the film as problematic, even though it's trying to say the opposite.
How do you reconcile that interpretation that Snyder isn't a fan of Punisher Batman with his statements at "SnyderCon" about Batman killing, his plans to have WW, Aquaman, and Superman behead Steppenwolf in his JL, and that Batman is still mowing down Parademons with machine guns on the Batmobile in his JL? Genuinely asking not trying to be an ass. To me it's abundantly clear that Snyder doesn't have any problem with his heroes slaughtering down mooks.
This was supposed to be addressed in JL and came directly from Geoff John's mouth. So either it got cut out when they reshot 50% of the film or they just never addressed it.[/QUOTE]
Steppenwolf and his Parademons are trying to conquer Earth and turn it into an uninhabitable wasteland. That's like criticizing Inglourious Basterds for brutally killing Nazis and Hitler.
As for Batman killing and branding criminals, that was before his rehabilitation and subsequent redemption. The film portrays it in the scene with Luthor in prison. He hits the wall instead of Lex.
How the hell are you going to compare bvs with catwoman? Jesus christ man that's just fucking insulting. Bvs is nowhere as bad of a film to any of the films you just listed.
Also, Batman gunning down Parademons with his Batmobile weapons is comic accurate. Mindless alien drones don't count for his "no kill" rule.
...Do you not get the difference between Batman and Inglorious Bastards? The Bastards never had a no kill rule ever. They're soldiers who were always going to kill.
You keep contradicting yourself. Either Snyder intended for BvS to be Batman realizing he fucked up and he needed to stop killing or it's Snyder not getting why Batman killing is a problem since he keeps killing even after BvS. What exactly did Superman "inspire" Batman to do if Batman is just continuing to kill except now we're supposed to cheer him on as he mows down Parademons? Snyder defenders tell me that BvS was not meant to be a celebration of Punisher Batman, but we're supposed to celebrate Batman machine gunning mooks in JL? Wasn't BvS supposed to be about how Batman dehumanizing Superman because he was an alien is wrong? But it's ok to kill Parademons because they're aliens? And shit man Joker has a higher kill count than any Parademons ever will.
I don't ever remember that happening. Batman shot Darkseid as a once in a lifetime exception but I don't remember him casually killing Parademons like it's nothing. Different from the comics but the DCAU Batman specifically refused to use Lex's guns in the DCAU finale.
BvS UE is THE Cape Kino.
No other movie tries to be that deep while being that comic book-y. The rest of KINO like TDK and Joker tiptoe around the edges of a grounded world. BvS doesn't. Yet still treats the material with utmost reverence.
It's the world's most unlikely indie film.
No other movie tries to be that deep while being that comic book-y. The rest of KINO like TDK and Joker tiptoe around the edges of a grounded world. BvS doesn't. Yet still treats the material with utmost reverence.
It's the world's most unlikely indie film.
Huh I'm kinda impressed the film is doing "more hot" with males over females.
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Yeah, Ash and me were saying that this new Batman's Earth would get merged in the mainline DCEU Earth via Flashpoint somehow. None of the characters (except maybe Barry) would even know it happened.
Ah I forgot that about flashpoint. Nobody realizes the differences... that would really make for an interesting trilogy of movies if it affected Batman. Like, how could you go and watch the three Batman movies alone after that. They will have to really execute it perfectly story wise
That's a different argument though. If you're arguing that "realistically" a lot of the people Batman beats up totally die of internal injuries, fair enough. But I'd simply point out that realistically Batman doesn't work at all. His grapple gun would break his fucking arm if he tried to use it in real life. Dragging a 12 year old Robin out to fight crime would force Gordon to arrest him. Batman is a fantasy character. So unless they're explicitly shown as dead, they aren't dead. None of the Arkham thugs die of exposure after Batman breaks their arms and leaves them half naked out in sub zero temps. When he drives 100 mph into thugs in Arkham Knight they get knocked out by a magic shock that miraculously doesn't electrify them.I can't imagine this Parademon went back to work the next day
Huh, I'm pretty sure I'm saying that Batman has killed Parademons before.
And I'm pretty sure that I just pointed out that "real world logic" doesn't apply to Batman. Does Batman explicitly say that Parademon is dead? Because Batman could stab him, shoot him, set him on fire, and drown him in acid and unless it explicitly says that guy is dead he's not dead.
And here's Batman pissed that Superman is killing Parademons.
Not for an R-rated film. And if the critical reception is positive, I could see it go up.
And I'm pretty sure that I just pointed out that "real world logic" doesn't apply to Batman. Does Batman explicitly say that Parademon is dead? Because Batman could stab him, shoot him, set him on fire, and drown him in acid and unless it explicitly says that guy is dead he's not dead.
And here's Batman pissed that Superman is killing Parademons.
to be fair that's an out of canon comic made to show how both Bruce and Clark are on opposite sides of the spectrum
People are probably wary about this turning out like Suicide Squad. If it reviews well I think it will have long legs just like Aquaman. People love HQ.
I'm not contradicting myself. Snyder always had the intent to challenge Batman's no-kill rule, which is what he meant during the q&a, even though he said it in a crass way. Even if Batman doesn't intend to kill, you're living in a dream world if you think the methods he uses to incarcerate the most dangerous people in Gotham is conventional and safe. We're not talking about human traffickers or drug dealers (which he brands.) Joker simply has plot armor. Parademons don't. There's not much more to it.
BvS shows this during the Martha rescue scene. His Batplane is under attack before he can enter the building. He has to incapacitate them or he'll be a shooting target. If he takes too much time, Martha dies. So he decides to shoot them and the guns they are operating. Sometimes the end justifies the means. What is right or wrong, good or bad, isn't always black and white. Batman thinks the life of Martha outweighs the collateral damage he inflicts and possibly killing people. You may disagree with that which is fine. You're just naive.
Ok so Punisher Batman is an acceptable thing and there's nothing wrong with him killing correct? Because the reason I even started talking about this in the first place was that Snyder defenders would often claim that Snyder was actually "deconstructing" Punisher Batman and I wanted to know how "Batman killing in BvS is portrayed as a bad thing" jives with Batman continuing to kill in JL. But you don't have a problem with him killing so it's not a contradiction for you.
...you know that situation isn't real right? And Batman always has a way to nonlethally disarm anyone. That's his thing.
I can't imagine how badly you misread DKR to try to use that book to justify Batman killing lmao.Then you're living in a dream world.
Those aren't rubber bullets he's firing.
Seriously did you even read it?
LOL did you even read what you posted? Batman contradicts himself by saying he will not use guns.I can't imagine how badly you misread DKR to try to use that book to justify Batman killing lmao.
Seriously did you even read it?
Anyway, I didn't say he killed the thug, but he did shoot her with bullets. Even if he did not hit any vital organs, she would still need medical attention. Batman seems more preoccupied with the infant though.
Likewise, he didn't explicitely kill anyone in the warehouse either. The deaths that happen are not directly his fault.
Nah, batman killing parademons is fine. No one actually gives a shit or would give a shit if the movie is executed well. They are spooky looking aliens that fly and there are a ton of them. Big bugs just terrorizing everyone usually during a end of the world situation. Cinematicly those kinds of "goons" are designed to read as expendable to the audience.
Batman using his batmobile to kill humans, sure that's a conversation worth having. Tho for a end of his rope losing his way batman that works too, but still understandable people might be put off by it.
Batman killing parademons is fine and will always be fine.
Like if Disney/feige had control of DC since 2008 and ran that as separate studio, darkseid invading in a movie would have batman kill parademons. It's a unavoidable reality of movie making having batman in a movie with cosmic threats.
You were pretty clearly trying to imply it though. And not directly responsible? So he didn't blow a hole in KGBeast? Not directly his fault my ass, that's like dropping a thug off a skyscraper and saying "I didn't kill him, gravity did".
Maybe, it's a grey area I admit. But from a logical standpoint Batman being ok with killing Parademons but not Joker just makes him look like an even bigger hypocritical asshole than he usually is. Like I said Joker has a higher kill count than any Parademons will ever get.
A more accurate comparison would be if Batman blew a hole in the wall of a skyscraper, and a thug jumped out. That's not on Batman. He shot the tank/hose line on the KGBeast and the dude turned on his flamethrower IIRC, thereby setting himself on fire.
Parademons are bugs. Aliens. I don't know why you keep comparing them to humans like the Joker, no matter his kill count. Nobody gives a fuck about parademons.
It's definitely a challenging part for people writing for batman. If Rob's batman ends up in a world ending movie with parademons, I'm pretty sure they'll either just trust the audience to realize batman has different rules for humans than mass produced alien bug goons. Or have some throw away dialogue to explain it.
Just feels unavoidable to me if batman is included in that scale of a movie.
How is this any different than TDKR? If anything, Batman doesn't shoot KGBeast directly; he shot a hole in the gas tank. KGBeast could have put the torch out but he didn't. In TDKR, you can see the splatter on the wall in the panel without any audible reaction from the thug. Batman in both situations used a gun. Human lives may or may not have been ended.
Either way, it's incredibly hypocritical to think killing is not okay but using severe violence is fine. "Oh no killing is the line he should absolutely not cross!"
"Oh. Crippling a law enforcer is fine."
Man c'mon. BvS is no where near the levels of bad that encompassed Daredevil and Catwoman. There's just no way in the world.
I won't defend Sucker Punch though.
First, nobody gives a single shit about a parademon. Not nobody. The same way nobody cared about the aliens who invaded NYC in Avengers. Nobody cared and they were right for not doing so. Batman mowing down Parademons? Sure, ok.
As for "Punisher Batman"... I didn't hate it. Snyder presented a jaded, mean, grizzled Bruce who doesn't give one fuck. And now he's obsessed with Superman and says "fuck it, I gotta kill him". Alfred calls him on his shit and he just brushes off the brutality. It's obviously a nod to TDK and provides a reason for the titular fight, but it just wasn't executed very well. All in all though, it's just a different interpretation of Batman. I'm used to it with the comics. And I'm used to him killing or indirectly killing folks in movies for 30 years now. One of the reasons I want to see the Snydercut of JL is to see how he planned to address his actions in BvS.
Anyway, the stuff listed above is why I consider BvS an Elseworlds movie that asks cool questions and has interesting themes. It helps that it's beautifully shot and the score is a joy to hear, even if overbearing in some scenes. But, ultimately, it wasn't the right film to launch a cinematic universe. I still like it though.... and watch it (or used to anyway) often.
And let's be honest here. If Batfleck really wanted to outright murder people, he would. And be efficient at it. The warehouse scene would be a lot shorter.
Birds of Prey has a modest budget right?
So in WB's eyes I'm certain itll be a other home run.
So in WB's eyes I'm certain itll be a other home run.
Original reports were between $75 to $85 million (including California tax credits). Reshoots may have added another $5-10 million since then. For comarison, Shazam! was their lowest-budgeted movie at between $80 and $100 million.
Should make a profit easily.
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