DBZ's original ending was terrible

[SilverX]

To sum it up, Goku was like "Bye everyone, I am going to spend who knows how many years training Uub and I'll visit from time to time! See yah!"

I get the meaning of it, Goku wanting an earthling to take his place and with all the potential Uub had it seemed like he was his successor, but there are so many aspects that make it idiotic.

1. Goku and Vegeta were still around, with no signs of being unable to take on any threats

2. Gohan, Trunks, and Goten were perfectly able bodied to be trained even before Uub (and well they are half "earthling" and actually born on the planet)

3. There were no potential threats, with it even being the longest period of peace since DB started.

The way that Goku went all in on Uub (when lets face it, he didn't have to live with him) and what felt like him abandoning everyone else, including his granddaughter Pan who was only a toddler, just felt like a misfire for a meaningful end to the series. It felt like a solution in search of a problem since everyone was still around and there was a new generation of fighters (hell even Pan was on her way to being one) already there.

 

[Weiss]

Why would Goku ever abandon his family in order to train someone to be his sparring partner?

 

[Zalman]

What makes you think he's going to stay with Uub for several years?

 

[Jebusman]

I think Toriyama gave an interview saying he didn't come up with an ending until he was writing the final chapter of the manga. So if it seems sort of abrupt/odd, it's because he was just fucking done and wrote an ending to reflect that.

Edit: Also every interview he's even given has a tone of "i'm sort of mad this thing was a success" about it. Dude wanted to make fun, light-hearted adventure series, and the fanbase just wanted action/battles.

The Great Saiyaman arc was literally because he decided he was going to end it and no longer gave a fuck about what the fans thought. I imagine by the time he actually had to write that last chapter, he thought to just throw some shit in there to make sure it was over.

 

[Ultra]

It could of been better, yeah. I always thought that the original series Dragon Ball was better anyway. If Z should of ended anywhere it's with Frieza or Cell, pretty much everything had been wrapped up by that point.

 

[Lagamorph]

Hopefully Super means that the ending of Z will be retconned, it was a really duff ending.

 

[Moara]

Hopefully Super means that the ending of Z will be retconned, it was a really duff ending.

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They seem super scared of going anywhere near the end of Z, with Goten and Trunks forever staying toddlers. I'll be surprised if they touch on it at all.

 

[Weiss]

Hopefully Super means that the ending of Z will be retconned, it was a really duff ending.

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It's been retconned insofar that more Dragon Ball material means the timeskip from Buu will gradually get larger, but I don't think it'll ever be outright removed.

 

[Westbahnhof]

From what I've read, Toriyama didn't want to draw the vast majority of the series and can't remember loads of his own named characters at this point, because his heart wasn't in it anymore WAY before the ending.
Of course a story the author stopped caring about will turn out like that.

 

[jwk94]

Uub definitely needed to be trained. Goku knew that was kid buy reincarnated. Better to train him and make sure that things go right this time than have this kid become the next big bad.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

Of course the ending sucked because the real ending was the Cell saga.

 

[Mewzard]

They seem super scared of going anywhere near the end of Z, with Goten and Trunks forever staying toddlers. I'll be surprised if they touch on it at all.

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A reminder that where Super is right now, it's been six years since the end of the fight with Majin Buu. That fight was in Age 774, Bra was born in Age 780.

So Goten would be 13 and Trunks 14 right now.

 

[Wari Oman]

Hopefully Super means that the ending of Z will be retconned, it was a really duff ending.

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It's Super.

It can only get worse.

 

[Weiss]

Of course the ending sucked because the real ending was the Cell saga.

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Why would you end on the worst part of all of Dragon Ball?

 

[anariel]

can't remember loads of his own named characters at this point

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Poor Launch

Forever stuck in who knows where

Still crushing on Tien

 

[Deleted member 12352]

Was there any real reason Goku couldn't have just brought Uub to live with him and his family? I mean, then even Gohan and Goten could have helped train him too, surely? Uub was just a kid ffs.

But nope, Goku gotta be Goku and abandon his own family at every possible opportunity like the asshole he is.

 

[RockmanBN]

A reminder that where Super is right now, it's been six years since the end of the fight with Majin Buu. That fight was in Age 774, Bra was born in Age 780.

So Goten would be 13 and Trunks 14 right now.

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Trunks at 14 for both Future of Trunks and Super

 

[Tamanon]

It was fine in reinforcing the theme that no other characters you care about matter except Goku.

 

[SilverX]

Why would Goku ever abandon his family in order to train someone to be his sparring partner?

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I don't know, I didn't write it lol. But he wasn't just a sparring partner, he was meant to be Goku's successor and the next protector of earth. He also apparently thought in order to be his master he had to spend every waking moment with him from there on.

What makes you think he's going to stay with Uub for several years?

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Because he said he would, that he didn't even know how long it would take at that. And Uub was just a child too so of course it was going to take a long time for him to be readied as the earth's next protector. Why Goku had to break away from everyone else to do this? That just made no sense.

I think Toriyama gave an interview saying he didn't come up with an ending until he was writing the final chapter of the manga. So if it seems sort of abrupt/odd, it's because he was just fucking done and wrote an ending to reflect that.

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I believe he wanted to do something that would make Goku "go away" and bid farewell to the character, in a sense (like Goku dying with Cell did that previously). But going off to live with Uub when the reverse would make as much sense, Uub living with Chichi, Goten, and him, or Goku just using instant transmission to train him and get back to being with his family when the sessions were over. Nothing sat right about the explanation.

 

[Astral]

GT is shit but it had the superior ending.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

It's nonsense but would also fit with pre-Saiyan arrival DB, tbh. Goku is a doofus and does what he wants just to fight.

Why would you end on the worst part of all of Dragon Ball?

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He did? I dunno why Cell gets all the hate when the most bullshit, padding and plot nonsense happens in the Buu arc.

 

[Weiss]

I don't know, I didn't write it lol. But he wasn't just a sparring partner, he was meant to be Goku's successor and the next protector of earth. He also apparently thought in order to be his master he had to spend every waking moment with him from there on.



Because he said he would, that he didn't even know how long it would take at that. And Uub was just a child too so of course it was going to take a long time for him to be readied as the earth's next protector. Why Goku had to break away from everyone else to do this? That just made no sense.



I believe he wanted to do something that would make Goku "go away" and bid farewell to the character, in a sense (like Goku dying with Cell did that previously). But going off to live with Uub when the reverse would make as much sense, Uub living with Chichi, Goten, and him, or Goku just using instant transmission to train him and get back to being with his family when the sessions were over. Nothing sat right about the explanation.

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The joke is that Goku does this all the time because he is (intentionally written as) an asshole sometimes. He wants to train Uub to be strong enough to face him because Goku's life resolves around the thrill of the next fight.

It's nonsense but would also fit with pre-Saiyan arrival DB, tbh. Goku is a doofus and does what he wants just to fight.


He did? I dunno why Cell gets all the hate when the most bullshit, padding and plot nonsense happens in the Buu arc.

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Buu Saga was better than both Freeza and Cell Sagas.

It's Dragon Ball in its natural element; an evil plan that could be easily dealt with made magnitudes worse by the ineptitude of our dumb yokel protagonists.

 

[Many]

Yeah I agree, it was bad

 

[Zalman]

Sorry, but nothing in the story indicates that he's "abandoning his family" or "going away for years". Fans have made this up as an extension of the "Goku is bad father" meme. He could have returned and had Uub practice with some of the others. He knows Instant Transmission.

Yes, he's doing it because he loves fighting, but he's also preparing for the inevitable next threat. Also, I think some people forget that Goten and Trunks have no interest in fighting at the end of Z. You could argue *that* was a bad writing decision, but that's another point entirely.

Personally I thought it was a clever ending. Throughout the story Goku has been the student, but at the end he becomes the master to pass on his teachings.

 

[Ciao]

Perfect ending, Goku still being Goku, he cares only about having a strong opponent, so he goes with Uub to make sure he's super strong and can have fun fighting him someday. No need for more.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Buu Saga was better than both Freeza and Cell Sagas.

It's Dragon Ball in its natural element; an evil plan that could be easily dealt with made magnitudes worse by the ineptitude of our dumb yokel protagonists.

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Cell had that in spades. It was also shorter and at least somewhat more interesting with actual growth of both power and characters, as opposed to just random asspulls of power and "oh btw I can do this SS3 thing lulz" level of buffoonery. Buu keeps absorbing people. Time to escalate the fight! Buu absorbs again. Time to escalate the fight! Hey we trapped him in the ROSAT! Oops, Buu just got mad enough to yell a hole in space/time to get out. WTF?

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

To sum it up, Goku was like "Bye everyone, I am going to spend who knows how many years training Uub and I'll visit from time to time! See yah!"

I get the meaning of it, Goku wanting an earthling to take his place and with all the potential Uub had it seemed like he was his successor, but there are so many aspects that make it idiotic.

1. Goku and Vegeta were still around, with no signs of being unable to take on any threats

2. Gohan, Trunks, and Goten were perfectly able bodied to be trained even before Uub (and well they are half "earthling" and actually born on the planet)

3. There were no potential threats, with it even being the longest period of peace since DB started.

The way that Goku went all in on Uub (when lets face it, he didn't have to live with him) and what felt like him abandoning everyone else, including his granddaughter Pan who was only a toddler, just felt like a misfire for a meaningful end to the series. It felt like a solution in search of a problem since everyone was still around and there was a new generation of fighters (hell even Pan was on her way to being one) already there.

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For what's it's worth Neko Majin Z had Goku show up hanging with his family and Uub.

 

[Weiss]

Cell had that in spades. It was also shorter and at least somewhat more interesting with actual growth of both power and characters, as opposed to just random asspulls of power and "oh btw I can do this SS3 thing lulz" level of buffoonery. Buu keeps absorbing people. Time to escalate the fight! Buu absorbs again. Time to escalate the fight! Hey we trapped him in the ROSAT! Oops, Buu just got mad enough to yell a hole in space/time to get out. WTF?

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I don't know how to tell you this but Dragon Ball runs on buffoonery. That's why Buu is the ideal villain because he's just some dumb git with ultimate power and the heroes beat him by making friends.

 

[skeezx]

it got to a point where there was virtually no way to cap off DBZ other than by simply ending it

ending was okay enough i guess i never had issue with it (though Buu saga was kind of a clunker note to end on)

 

[Lord Vatek]

The beginning of the Buu saga was a more natural progression of Gohan's development than the Cell saga ever was.

Honestly, Toriyama should have ended it after they came back from killing Buu and ditch the time skip. End on a promise of future adventures.

 

[Zalman]

The beginning of the Buu saga was a more natural progression of Gohan's development than the Cell saga ever was.

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The brutal truth no one wants to admit.

 

[Älg]

12 year old me was perfectly satisfied with the ending, does anything else really matter?

 

[MoosetheMark]

Maybe it's because I read the manga all the way through from chapter 1 of Dragon Ball, but I thought it brought things full circle in a nice way, IE a special young boy with a lot of heart takes his first steps into a bigger world and finds new friends to train him along the way.

 

[Soda]

Honestly, the GT ending was better than the DBZ ending. I say this as someone that preferred DBZ pretty strongly compared to GT, overall.

 

[NediarPT88]

I thought it was fine back then and still do. Goku just likes to train and fight, and he had a opportunity of having some fun training Uub so he took it. Fits the character.

 

[SilverX]

Uub definitely needed to be trained. Goku knew that was kid buy reincarnated. Better to train him and make sure that things go right this time than have this kid become the next big bad.

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No one is saying he didn't need to be trained, but there was definitely a better way to go about it that gave a better feeling to the fans at the end.

The joke is that Goku does this all the time because he is (intentionally written as) an asshole sometimes. He wants to train Uub to be strong enough to face him because Goku's life resolves around the thrill of the next fight.

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Sure, it fits into his character since he prioritizes training above all, but as the ending to the series? It was completely off especially with the meaning it was aiming for. As I mentioned before, Goku sacrificing his life with Cell and choosing to stay dead felt noble in a sense and actually felt like an ending.

Sorry, but nothing in the story indicates that he's "abandoning his family" or "going away for years". Fans have made this up as an extension of the "Goku is bad father" meme. He could have returned and had Uub practice with some of the others. He knows Instant Transmission.

Yes, he's doing it because he loves fighting, but he's also preparing for the inevitable next threat. Also, I think some people forget that Goten and Trunks have no interest in fighting at the end of Z. You could argue *that* was a bad writing decision, but that's another point entirely.

Personally I thought it was a clever ending. Throughout the story Goku has been the student, but at the end he becomes the master to pass on his teachings.

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Everything says he did. He says his goodbyes to everyone and even goes off to Uub's village to be his master and train him. It was meant to be a "farewell" to the character and even GT acknowledges this as how its written to continue from that note.

For what's it's worth Neko Majin Z had Goku show up hanging with his family and Uub.

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I saw that as more of wanting to get everyone the could in for the cameos, but I'm not saying Goku never saw anyone again after Uub. Just that he kicked them to the curb for the most part.

12 year old me was perfectly satisfied with the ending, does anything else really matter?

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A 12 year old wouldn't know a good ending

 

[KtotheRoc]

Toriyama isn't a great writer.

 

[404LinkNotFound]

I thought it was fine back then and still do. Goku just likes to train and fight, and he had a opportunity of having some fun training Uub so he took it. Fits the character.

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Yup
and it has "The adventure continues" open-ended vibe as well which fits the series

 

[ArchedThunder]

Vegeta says he thinks Goku is lying and that him training Uub has nothing to do with protecting Earth, the implication being that Goku is simply excited to have another powerful person to fight. Super adds to this by having Dende request that Goku train Uub.
Goku also tells his family he'll visit them, so it's not like he abandoned them.

 

[AlexBasch]

Cell saga ending is where DBZ ended for me and nobody can convince me otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

Yes, it sucked.

Thank goodness for GT, which provided the best ending Dragon Ball could have.

 

[Älg]

A 12 year old wouldn't know a good ending

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My point was that DB is decidedly a kids story, and that it is futile to criticize or analyze it using logic that only an adult is capable of.

 

[Zalman]

I guess I'll give up. Too much misinformation about Dragon Ball, Goku's character in particular, is constantly being spread on the internet. Nothing indicates he abandons his family, but believe what you want.

Thank goodness for GT, which provided the best ending Dragon Ball could have.

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Shame about the rest of the series.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I guess I'll give up. Too much misinformation about Dragon Ball, Goku's character in particular, is constantly being spread on the internet. Nothing indicates he abandons his family, but believe what you want.


Shame about the rest of the series.

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Goku straight up tells his family he'll visit them even.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I don't know how to tell you this but Dragon Ball runs on buffoonery. That's why Buu is the ideal villain because he's just some dumb git with ultimate power and the heroes beat him by making friends.

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That doesn't make Buu any less convoluted, ridiculous or overly long though. The whole thing, from the end of the tournament to dropping the bomb on him then "oh right we still have a wish!" to be able to push harder was just bad. I recently went through the entire series again by buying each of the steelbook releases and my harshness on it subsided slightly while it was going until it reminded me of why I hate the arc to begin with. Between having read through the manga what feels like forever ago to this, you can tell Toriyama's heart wasn't in it anymore.

He should have just done a new series of The Great Saiyaman and gone with it wholesale. But Jump and Toei are gonna Jump and Toei.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

It's nonsense but would also fit with pre-Saiyan arrival DB, tbh. Goku is a doofus and does what he wants just to fight.


He did? I dunno why Cell gets all the hate when the most bullshit, padding and plot nonsense happens in the Buu arc.

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It's because it's cool now to trash the Cell Saga, as if the Saiyan and especially Freeza sagas didn't suffer from the same ass pulls, dragged on fights, power creeps, lacking character progression, etc.

The real answer is that people who don't like Gohan didn't like Toriyama bringing to fruition what was always underlying in DBZ since it's first arc. Also, the final fight being a complete subversion to what fans were used to (struggle vs. a complete and overwhelming beat down) up until Cell's revival is also what gets flack.

 

[RochHoch]

Goku wanted to train a successor, so what? It's not like he can't teleport home and see his friends at any time, we're not given any reason to believe that he didn't regularly visit

The ending is fine, way better than GT's

 

[Rampage]

Why would you end on the worst part of all of Dragon Ball?

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Because the Cell arc was the passing of the torch to Gohan. They should have let him stop at the end of Freeza where he wanted.

Buu and beyond was fans not letting go, and editors forcing Toriayami to churned out endless fights with no narrative purpose.

 

[Weiss]

Because the Cell arc was the passing of the torch to Gohan. They should have let him stop at the end of Freeza where he wanted.

Buu and beyond was fans not letting go, and editors forcing Toriayami to churned out endless fights with no narrative purpose.

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He didn't want to stop at Freeza, that's a common misconception. It was the Cell arc with all the constant mandates where his editor dicked him around for like two years straight. Buu was Toriyama doing what he wanted (ie: Dragon Ball in its purest state as a screwball comedy).

 

[NeonZ]

Because the Cell arc was the passing of the torch to Gohan. They should have let him stop at the end of Freeza where he wanted.

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There is no indication Toriyama ever actually planned to end the series with Freeza though. It's just the point where he had used most story set up done since the 23rd Budokai and Saiyan Saga, but even then there was one left (Gohan's hidden potential). There are no statements from Toriyama suggesting it was ever meant to be an ending.