Days Gone Lead: "Don’t Complain if There’s no Sequel if you Didn’t Buy it Full Price", "Metacritic Score Is Everything to Sony"

[CorpseLight]

I'm not really a fan of AAA game developers that work for these mega companies like Sony telling me to "buy the fucking game at full price and don't wait for a sale". Its incredibly tone deaf and aggressive towards consumers.

Just what the hell is going on with camp Sony lately.

 

[Glio]

The problem with metacritic is that it has a bias in favor of certain genres, just as there is a bias in the cinema.

That causes Sony to also have that bias.

 

[litebrite]

To be fair to Sony, the bar has been set really high by other Playstation studios in Metacritic scores and launch sales that anything less can feel dramatically worse than what it actually is.

 

[DieH@rd]

Days gone 2 with a different director

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The potential of that franchise is limited now, when half of the customers were not satisfied with the game. Plus, development team is not clicking completely, and budgets for nextgen titles are very high.

New IP is the better choice. They could even go back to Syphon Filter, and give us another tactical 3rd person action game that will slot in into the place that MGS franchise vacated.

 

[Nola]

what else should they take into account to greenlit a project, other than sales and reception?
Twitch views?

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Maybe like HBO that had a similar metric despite an obvious shift in the way people consumed their products as the DVR, On Demand and DVD era was blowing up, still stuck in the past, using only first run views and to a lesser extent awards, to judge success.

Sony should get with the 21st century and understand that a lot of products don't all have the same life cycles and public consumption/perception patterns and if you aren't adaptable and take that into account you risk inadvertently killing off product lines that are actually more successful than your rigid metrics are able to understand and it also risks damaging brand loyalty long-term.

It seems very shortsighted, if true, to only be considering such a narrow and focused set of metrics to judge success when so many games these days find life and loyalty after launch.

 

[Orion117]

A costly AAA game with long dev cycle, mediocre review, fan reception and initial sales with its lead fired after 6 days because his management style wasnt working doesnt get a sequel greenlit.

Its amazing how much mileage gaming media has extracted out of this complete non story.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

My thinking is that buying a pricy game around launch is an easier proposition for people who don't buy many games in general. Not enthusiasts but those who get like a few games a year. The big mainstream players rather than the enthusiasts. That's why I expect mass-marketability to be a bigger influence on which AAA gets made than if people like us on this board buy a AAA game at launch. They need to buy it as well on day one. That doesn't necessary refute what he's saying, but if a game doesn't have enough of an appeal to a large enough audience, that seems like a misjudged/misbudgeted/mismarketed game to me rather than the fault of the consumer.

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They would have data to tell them that. We would never know. If you are asking me considering consoles generally have an attach rate of 6-10 games, I would find it unlikely that mass market players buy more full price games than enthusiasts. Enthusiasts likely spend more on gaming as a whole and buy more full price titles.

Like I said though, a AAA game is going to rely primarily on mainstream consumption just because of how expensive a product it is to make. It isn't like Days Gone is a niche genre. It's a fucking zombie apocalyse game lol.

 

[Graven]

Knack had a sequel.

Just saying...

 

[Euron]

His logic's pretty consistent: I couldn't care less about a sequel and not only didn't I buy it at $60, I still haven't downloaded it on PS+

Okay in all seriousness maybe I'll check it out but I'm so burnt out on the zombie/post-apocalyptic genre unless it's something special like TLOU2.

 

[RailWays]

No, I'm not going to buy every gaming title at full price and frankly that's an unreasonable expectation to determine an IPs potential for sequels, even from a big corporation like Sony who frequently puts their titles on sale.

Knack had a sequel.

Just saying...

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Yep, clearly shows that other factors go into play when deciding what gets sequels

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Don't make a zombie game in a zombie game saturated market and maybe I would have bit, and maybe reviews would have been better?

 

[ThreepQuest64]

Okay then, won't complain.

On a more serious note: don't put everything in a sale a few months after release, release games in better states and release more original and less formulaic games and I'll buy full price.

Why should I pay full price and HOPE the game gets updated to a state I'm satisfied with?

 

[Izanagi89]

Big launches, good reviews and award shows. All good ammunition for the sales department.

Sony has been trying to turn console gaming into the television and film industry. When you look at their budgets amd the type of games they make it's easy to see why.

I still find it a little gross but it's better than outright trying to copy a company like Nintendo. That company still has it's innocence compared to Sony which does not.

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Violent Sony
Illegal Microsoft
Innocent Nintendo

We Metal Gear now

 

[Deleted member 5086]

Big launches, good reviews and award shows. All good ammunition for the sales department.

Sony has been trying to turn console gaming into the television and film industry. When you look at their budgets amd the type of games they make it's easy to see why.

I still find it a little gross but it's better than outright trying to copy a company like Nintendo. That company still has it's innocence compared to Sony which does not.

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Yeah, can we not pretend that multi billion dollar corporations who perpetuate slave labour and have engaged in bigotry are "innocent"? Thanks.

In case you missed it, this thread has been pinned for several months:

Our gaming hardware is linked to slave labour, concentration camps and genocide. Here's what to do about it.

[Update Q4 2022] Since this thread and petition was started, there have been three significant updates to this situation: 1. Nintendo responded and directly commented on this situation at a shareholder meeting: Source (Q9). Furukawa's comments here deny the findings of the ASPI report...

www.resetera.com

 

[Echo]

@all the people thinking "fuck metacritic" is a weird/bad take...

I mean, i think for those of us who like to go outside the blockbuster titles it's not such a strange stance... Plenty of gems fly under the radar or get shit on by mainstream reviewers that can't, won't, or don't appreciate anything outside of "the usual." A good example of this would be NieR for sure. But the game built a cult-following and more for anyone who put in the effort. Heck, most NieR reviewers failed to even realize the game continued past Ending A.

 

[Karlinel]

Knack had a sequel.

Just saying...

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Knack was different (not necessarily good), not a trend chaser.

 

[Ada]

we might be seeing Days Gone all over again with Returnal, another full priced new ip AAA.

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For sure, that game looks worse than DG. £70 asking price for that tier of game is guaranteed failure.

 

[Kill3r7]

Spicy. I can count the number of games I've bought full-price at launch over the past ten years on one hand though. It's just too expensive. More so now that €79.99 is becoming a thing. For me, €40 is already in the territory where I'll think long and hard about whether I need to play it right now, and that's already 50% off by new standards. There's just no way I'll shell that much out for a single game, even for my favorite series. I think it's an easier sell for the mainstream audience that buys one to at most three games a year, rather than those who buy one or more a month. So I imagine how marketable it is to that group likely has much more of a bearing on which games get approved than whether I pick a game up at launch. Expensive AAA games need lots of sales, and I don't think an enthusiast like myself is part of a large enough subset of the overall audience to make a significant difference.

I'm also happy to support games, but I don't really get on with the reasoning that I need to do it in such and such time frame "or else." I'm not an investor, I'm not on a board making the calls, and there are no guarantees about more content or a sequel either way.

It's always sad to see a beloved game or series fizzle out though. F-Zero has been in the discourse lately and that's a series I feel strongly about. It's unfortunate. But I think a new game that's appropriately scaled could still be viable. That's probably easier to scale down than a game with the sandbox design of Days Gone, however.

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To be fair, regardless of whether you or I buy games day 1 is irrelevant since millions of others do so. The new price hike doesn't seem to hinder sales day 1. So price might not the issue we like to make it out to be, unless you are unsure about the game.

 

[Julius Novachrono]

Yeah fuck 80 euro games. Fuck right off. I'm buying exclusively used or super low-priced during sales

 

[Chamon]

I bought the special edition on day one and I actually enjoyed the game, even got the platinum.

But I think it is not the best game Sony has released, and I think that the studio can do something better. So I can understand why a sequel is not in the works, specially if it didn't bring much money home.

Also I'm not very interested in a sequel either.

 

[LifeLine]

Unlike other companies, Sony's success has always been tied to the game's metascore. Makes sense why they value it so much.

 

[Rosebud]

Btw, Jaffe is really milking this Days Gone thing lol

And if I recal correctly he didn't even liked it

 

[Dragon1893]

This particular game was actually a bit of a mess at launch, so the people who waited actually got the better experience while also getting it cheaper. DG really isn't a great example of a game that should be bought at launch.
Also, it was a new IP so people tend to be less willing to risk unless the reviews are fantastic, and they were far from it.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Sounds like the guy is frustrated.
But yeah, a lot of people probably got this game on deep discount. I did. Sony notices this, of course.

 

[Twstr709]

Knack had a sequel.

Just saying...

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Seems like Sony is learning from that mistake.

 

[Amir Mirzaee]

Here's a question for the majority of the people who posted in the last four pages:
Do you know if you're going to like a movie when you're buying the ticket?

You watch a trailer, you read the reviews, you're a fan of the director, the studio or many other factors.
The fact that you didn't like it after you're outta the theater doesn't give you the right to ask for your money back.

And for games, it's exactly the same. You watch the trailers, watch the gameplays, some streams of it, read the reviews and then decide to buy the game. It's not the developer's fault you don't know what you want. This doesn't give you the right to download it illegally and then buy it if you've liked it.

Also, regarding the reviews, I specifically don't mean looking at the scores; you've got to READ the reviews. Like, Civilization is a 90-plus game on Metacritic, but would you look at that and say to yourself, as an action-adventure cinematic fan that 'yeah, that's a fantastic game, I have to play that'?

On the topic at hand, Days Gone wasn't anything interesting since its inception. Super angry biker dude lost his wife and wants revenge by killing zombies? The number of times Garvin mentioned Sons of Anarchy in this interview should be enough for some to completely write it off. I played some of it, definitely didn't buy it on launch, and the game even gets worse than that initial premise. Secondary characters were horribly written, there wasn't enough new gameplay mechanics for a game that long to keep people engaged and excited for new things to be introduced, and ultimately, it just wasn't anything special. Yeah, sure it wasn't a bad game, it can keep you engaged for a dozen hours if that's what you're looking for.

Garvin says in the interview that he really believes racism would be something big in a post-apocalyptic world, but at the same time he didn't want it in his game. He wanted like the safest game ever. White biker protagonist kills zombies for like forty hours. Yeah man, you made the most un-interesting game in recent years; Mechanics and systems we've seen and used for years, typical zombie setting, and the safest and soulless characters ever. What did you expect?

 

[SoulsHunt]

Actually, no.

 

[TooBusyLookinGud]

Firstly, create a better game so you can earn a high meta score so people we can feel confident in your product.

Secondly, if your game is a buggy snore fest then I'm passing on it ;not just at full price either.

He's right. People wait for a game to be on sale, or buy it in second hand, or don't even buy it, then complain.

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This makes no sense. People are spending their hard earned money regardless and not everyone has the money to spend freely. Of course I can still complain about my Honda is if I buy it used.

 

[metal]

What a shit take.

 

[abady-25]

Knack had a sequel.

Just saying...

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that was from old management
i doubt if jim was control at that time i sure we will not see knack 2 , gravity rush 2 and the last guardian

 

[Varixio]

Maybe make a better game? :) (I bought it at launch but don't agree at all about shaming people for not buying it at launch)

 

[Deleted member 5491]

I mean... sure?
But it was a new IP, so how are people supposed to know?
All the pre-release material wasn't really interesting to look at.
Reviews were meh.
And it is Sony, as the publisher who lowered the price not that long after release.

You can't blame the customer on this one.

P.S.: Many don't have the money to buy ever game at full price at launch.

 

[Carn]

Yep, clearly shows that other factors go into play when deciding what gets sequels

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Knack had a sequel.

Just saying...

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Well, I can imagine Knack 2 costing only a fraction of a big budget AAA open world game; which probably made it easier to greenlight.

 

[Wabba]

I am so glad that they dont make another Days Gone. The game had a lot of potential and Sony Bend has showed that they have talent, but put that talent in another franchise.

I cant understand how anybody wants to play more of Deacons story. The characters where really forgettable and not very likable.

 

[FeenixRisen]

Big launches, good reviews and award shows. All good ammunition for the sales department.

Sony has been trying to turn console gaming into the television and film industry. When you look at their budgets amd the type of games they make it's easy to see why.

I still find it a little gross but it's better than outright trying to copy a company like Nintendo. That company still has it's innocence compared to Sony which does not.

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A multi billion dollar company having innocence. I've officially heard everything and I browse Twitter daily

 

[FGLS1992]

Thank you, GamePass, for being an evolution of an outdated system that asks us to spend so much money on hype and paid critics to secure success for multimillion dollar companies.

 

[Matush]

Why is it controversial that revenue/profit and critical reception a game generates are important to a company that regularly drops $100m on bringing said game to market?

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Yeah, this is business 101. Not sure what's wrong with that.

Regarding his second comment, I can do whatever I want with my money. I bought Days Gone brand new on Black Friday sale for 20€ and sold it right after finishing it for the same amount. If market allows it, I'm sure as hell gonna save money if I have no desire to keep the game.

I've enjoyed DG for what it was, but let's not create narrative that it was critical darling or GotY material.

 

[Kalor]

I mean, not everyone can afford games at full price. And it's obviously hard to know if you'll like it until afterwards. The entire notion of "If you love the game, buy it at full price" is just ridiculous. It was also a new IP from a team that didn't much pedigree for larger projects so it's even more of an unknown.

 

[Joni]

Unlike other companies, Sony's success has always been tied to the game's metascore. Makes sense why they value it so much.

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Not even just Sony. Remember how Obsidian didn't get bonuses for Fallout New Vegas because it only scored an 84. It is common industry practice.

 

[Deleted member 9241]

Ironic that the best version of the game was given away by sony for free.

 

[Leandras]

Really weird argument for a game that released in a rough state. The fact that it became a hit after release is a testament to the team's dedication but you cant expect customers to pay full price for a broken product in the hopes that you'd actually fix it. What happened to Days Gone is the exception when it comes to salvaging a game post launch. Not the norm.

 

[Boogolo]

Got to agree with Matt Piscatella on this. The blame is squarely on the shoulders of those who let the game come out in the mess it did. And this is from someone who bought a physical copy on launch and sold it for a small loss a day later after 3 blue screens of death in the first hour or two

 

[HgS]

While I understand why developers might be frustrated I have a hard time feeling too much sympathy for the sentiment.

The price of a game is up about 50% for me from where it was a decade ago. Games look cheap if you live in a high cost of living area or have a really high income/unusually low commitments, which seems to be the case for lots of game devs. But my wife and I are both gamers, both make more than the average household income (individually) for our area and a new game is about 1/3rd the cost of a mortgage payment for us or half a car loan payment. We're probably the only house on our street that has the disposable income to buy games regularly now.

 

[Carn]

On the topic at hand, Days Gone wasn't anything interesting since its inception. Super angry biker dude lost his wife and wants revenge by killing zombies? The number of times Garvin mentioned Sons of Anarchy in this interview should be enough for some to completely write it off. I played some of it, definitely didn't buy it on launch, and the game even gets worse than that initial premise. Secondary characters were horribly written, there wasn't enough new gameplay mechanics for a game that long to keep people engaged and excited for new things to be introduced, and ultimately, it just wasn't anything special. Yeah, sure it wasn't a bad game, it can keep you engaged for a dozen hours if that's what you're looking for.

Garvin says in the interview that he really believes racism would be something big in a post-apocalyptic world, but at the same time he didn't want it in his game. He wanted like the safest game ever. White biker protagonist kills zombies for like forty hours. Yeah man, you made the most un-interesting game in recent years; Mechanics and systems we've seen and used for years, typical zombie setting, and the safest and soulless characters ever. What did you expect?

Click to shrink...

This is pretty much how I feel about it. In the end, it's pretty much a 7/10 game, with the writing maybe even being a 6/10. It's far from a "bad" game and it really has its moments but it never became more than the sum of its parts.

 

[Nola]

Unlike other companies, Sony's success has always been tied to the game's metascore. Makes sense why they value it so much.

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No, it really doesn't.

And the fact you didn't accompany this assertion with a qualification backs that up.

 

[Yopis]

Exactly people and companies talk about sales. But how many at full price.

 

[Izanagi89]

I am so glad that they dont make another Days Gone. The game had a lot of potential and Sony Bend has showed that they have talent, but put that talent in another franchise.

I cant understand how anybody wants to play more of Deacons story. The characters where really forgettable and not very likable.

Click to shrink...

Well maybe not Deacon's story but the "secret" ending made me really excited for how they could expand on the universe and story. It could've lead to an interesting sequel, whether Deacon was in it or not.

 

[RROCKMAN]

Metacritic needs to go. Period. And people are here saying lol make a better game, when metacritic was never the end all be all for game quality. Similar to how rotten tomatoes shouldn't be the end all be all to movie quality either.


But of course it's never Sony in the wrong here. Nope nosiree. Sony is always right about what needs to be made and what doesn't. Keep up the good work Era.

 

[Deleted member 7148]

The problem with Days Gone that I noticed is that most people I know were just simply burnt out on zombie games at its release. The industry floods the market with zombie titles and zombie fatigue is real.

I bought the game at launch and only put maybe 2 hours into it before I gave up due to some mechanics I wasn't a fan of. However, I remember hearing comments like "ah not another zombie game" a lot during its marketing run.

 

[FacelessSamurai]

And this is why services like Game Pass make sense, because critical success and sales is less important for a single game when so many users are paying monthly for a service.