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Achtung

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,035
My wife runs an infant daycare out of our home. In no way is it a scam to charge a full day no matter how many hours your child is there.

We have limited slots for kids allowed by the county.... if you only pay half the rate that's money we can not make up. We are more reasonable with weeks we are off which parents appreciate but it is not like I have a Bentley in the driveway... we are not getting rich off this.
 

Possum Armada

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,630
Greenville, SC
I had my five month old son in a $140 a week daycare but it was a disaster. Moved him to a nicer $300 a week daycare and the results have been amazing. Hate spending so much money on childcare (more than both cars and our mortgage) but it is worth it.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,331
A single child care worker is usually limited between 5-8 kids depending on age and location... Assuming that they have zero operational costs at $23/day, the child care worker is earning $115-$184 a day, before expenses. So they're earning $2300-3680/month, reduce that value by 20-30% after operational costs. How exactly is that a scam?

I'd rather make sure the people taking care of my child aren't bordering upon poverty and can provide the best care possible. We pay around $1200/month for 3 days a week, it's worth every cent.
 

Allforce

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
My wife runs an infant daycare out of our home. In no way is it a scam to charge a full day no matter how many hours your child is there.

We have limited slots for kids allowed by the county.... if you only pay half the rate that's money we can not make up. We are more reasonable with weeks we are off which parents appreciate but it is not like I have a Bentley in the driveway... we are not getting rich off this.

Curious what the operational costs are for running it out of your home. Like how many kids are there? How many employees? What does insurance cost?

I just ask because we know a woman who does it out of her house and it's a NICE income per month just doing the napkin math (and she was definitely living well). 250 a week x 4 weeks x 6 kids is 6K a month before you get into any expenses which is why I am curious what there is that eats into it.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,828
Curious what the operational costs are for running it out of your home. Like how many kids are there? How many employees? What does insurance cost?

I just ask because we know a woman who does it out of her house and it's a NICE income per month just doing the napkin math (and she was definitely living well). 250 a week x 4 weeks x 6 kids is 6K a month before you get into any expenses which is why I am curious what there is that eats into it.

$72k a year before taxes and expenses isn't a ton of money.
 

Dankir

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,513
Daycare in Quebec is cheap as 7 dollars a day and is based on your income. Wife and I are at the top end, so it would be at least $25 a day for us once we have kids.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,228
So glad that Denmark socialized day care works amazingly. 300$ for a whole month with a team of educated professionals. If there is a complaint here is that children stay in day care for too long like from 7 or 8 am to 4-5 pm.
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
Daycare would break us if we put my son in it. Luckily for us, our family rotates watching him for us. It can be stressful getting coverage for him at times, but if we didn't do this we would be broke constantly.
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
Daycare is free here in Brazil, depending on the city you live it can be pretty decent, my niece goes there everyday all day and it's free and Ok, private costs about the same as the minimum wage.
 

joecanada

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
Canada
I see why a huge chunk of the US works paycheck to paycheck. Think its $10 a day here in Canada but those cheaper slots are fairly limited or something.
No way it's varied by province. Only a few have daycare 10/day. BC is just piloting it now and the going rate before it hits is 1000 plus per month.
However divide what you pay by hour and then consider you need qualified ECE staff and infant toddler educators and many staff have child and youth degrees. They're vastly underpaid and it could be much worse I wouldn't do it for less than 2k per month per child . You're getting professional child development services .

However on the flip side there's hundreds of investigations per year at these places (per region obv) so.... picking for regular joe public is almost impossible you gotta watch them like a hawk too
 

Allforce

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
$72k a year before taxes and expenses isn't a ton of money.

Guess it depends where you live then. That's way more than I fucking make and I still could buy a 3 bedroom house back when I was 22 making 10 bucks an hour.

That's why I wanted to hear from the guy who owns a daycare what his expenses are. Utility costs? Cleaning services? Food? The woman we know still made parents send food for their kids every day so I don't know how common that is in daycare. There can't be THAT much overhead but maybe I'm missing something like "tranquilizers" that are through the roof in cost....

We never sent our kids through daycare since I work from home full time so I never had to price this shit out.
 

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,645
After factoring in our government funded childcare subsidy, we pay $173 Australian a fortnight. (our son goes three days a week).

That works out at about 124 US a fortnight or $20USD a day. Happy with that considering how enriching it is and good for his socialisation. It's a high quality place that delivers a proper play-based learning curriculum.

I think this might just be another case of America Sucks: The Thread.
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,296
Found a lady online about 150 for 3 days a week and my mom does 2 days. Very flexible lady and offers evening babysitting.

It's no joke though
 

joecanada

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
Canada
Guess it depends where you live then. That's way more than I fucking make and I still could buy a 3 bedroom house back when I was 22 making 10 bucks an hour.

That's why I wanted to hear from the guy who owns a daycare what his expenses are. Utility costs? Cleaning services? Food? The woman we know still made parents send food for their kids every day so I don't know how common that is in daycare. There can't be THAT much overhead but maybe I'm missing something like "tranquilizers" that are through the roof in cost....

We never sent our kids through daycare since I work from home full time so I never had to price this shit out.
Most daycares need tons of supplies from toys to playground equipment 5k or more... and regulated daycares your house entire house must be spotless and damage free. Then it's sheer man hours you need policies ,staff if you want over a certain number of kids , you must get all registration info, have safety plans , programming, etc.
However if you were smart you'd also write alot off as business expense .

Most people work on this shit like any business all day every day
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,993
Guess it depends where you live then. That's way more than I fucking make and I still could buy a 3 bedroom house back when I was 22 making 10 bucks an hour.

That's why I wanted to hear from the guy who owns a daycare what his expenses are. Utility costs? Cleaning services? Food? The woman we know still made parents send food for their kids every day so I don't know how common that is in daycare. There can't be THAT much overhead but maybe I'm missing something like "tranquilizers" that are through the roof in cost....

We never sent our kids through daycare since I work from home full time so I never had to price this shit out.
You're talking about someone who is self-employed, which means they may have higher taxes because they aren't paying the taxes the employer usually pays. I'm sure there are drawing supplies and other misc costs, whatever it takes to provide activities to keep the kids busy. That's a decent income you're talking about there, but it's not far above the median income at all, and that assumes the person is using their own home and doesn't have a boss.
 

Edward

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,112
I feel your pain, but I understand it from their perspective. People are only allowed to watch a certain amount of kids and they have to pay the staff the same amount whether they watch one kid or eight. Not to mention licensing, insurance costs, meals, entertainment, and administration. I've talked with the owners of our kids' daycare, and they don't make near as much as you'd think.

And I pay almost $2k per month in daycare for my two kids. But I wouldn't have it any other way. The socialization and learning they can get from a good daycare environment is fantastic.
Yeah, we pay out the ass but they learn, play, interact/be social. There isn't a cheaper alternative that gives my kids as much as the place they are at now. I would rather them be out and and interact and learn than be sitting in the living room playing on an ipad while i work from some some days a week.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
I don't know how young people with kids make it now days. At my job, they deduct 50 per check for insurance if you are single. But if you have family/kids it's like 250. Throw in hundreds per week if you for daycare, how are you supposed to pay bills?
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,262
I'm much older than a lot of ERA and already raised 3 kids (two of whom have their own kids now) and I do find it kinda sad that families are much smaller and atomic now. We had the help of both sets of grandparents when we were raising our kids, and my wife spends about 6 months of the year with our daughters helping them raise theirs, and we are even considering moving to be closer to our oldest daughter if she has a second baby. When I was growing up our family was 8 kids big and the oldest took on a lot of responsibility and we had a ton of family around, but each generation is more spread out and less able to rely on other family.

Anyways in a more concrete fashion I'd say maybe try thinking outside the box for child care. Regular daycare places are expensive because there are a lot of regulations, inspections, training, safety equipment etc they have to pass. Its not at all the same thing but I know an older lady in our neighborhood who takes care of two kids of a single working mom and she only charges $20/day to the mom, the 3 of them come over to my house daily to hangout, watch TV, eat, play with our dog, etc because she's my wifes friend and a really nice and amazing lady. If you can reach out to friends and neighbors maybe you can find a retired couple or something that wouldn't mind some light babysitting for a much lower price. I know some skeptics are gonna say "but what about abuse!", but imo we've gone way too far in the extreme of worrying about that kind of thing. It really does take a village to raise kids and there is nothing wrong with more adults helping raise kids.
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,601
yup, you get a bulk discount and they can only have X number of spots legally, so your partial weeks mean they need others to have partial weeks too, or have empty spots they aren't getting paid for.

We pay $900 a month for our son's preschool, and $700 a month for our baby's daycare (and she's only there 3 days a week).
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,017
Yea it's wild. In other countries the grandparents watch the kids while the parents work.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
Went from $120 a week to $110 a week when my daughter turned 3. Not much savings and i can wait till she goes to school.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
I can confirm this isn't a problem exclusive to the US. In Scotland I pay ÂŁ800 a month in nursery fees and this is including getting government contributions towards it. He starts school in August....can't wait.
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,460
San Francisco
Daycare in the Bay Area-like all other costs was insane. I'm glad my daughter is in grade school now.

I just looked up the day care online and it looks for like 5 days a week, for the month it's
$1,195.00 - that can't be right, I remember it being much more.

My wife works at probably the cheapest daycare in SF because it is a co-op. Parents rates are based on their income and also the amount of hours they volunteer at the daycare themselves. Using parents as daycare help is... not as good as one may think.

Also daycare is expensive because the adult to kid ratio has to be higher than any other type of school.
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,638
I worked daycare at the local Boy's and Girl's club where we charged on a sliding scale. The local Y did the same.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
In Finland, more you get salary more you pay (290€ for month is cap. None pays more than this for one kid). And if you have low income or none, you don't pay at all.

If your kid is sick for many days you don't have to pay from those days. If your kid isn't there full days, you pay less. More kids you have, less you pay per kid
 

Morzak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
319
We are starting daycare for our 7 month old daughter this week we will be paying around 800$ if i did the conversion correctly, that is for 2 days and only because the local fovernment subsidizes healthcare, full price would have been nearly 1400$. Wages here are high but still a full week in a daycare without subsidies for would run you over 2500$ . But yeah good daycare is expensive, since you need a lot of decentyl educated people to care for the children, I still think it would be important to subsidize it more especially since there is still a lot of issues with keeping women in the workforce fulltime.

I will be working 80% and my wife 60%, for her as a teacher that isn't that big of a deal and she would be able to get back to100 % without much issues if she wants to. I have an employer that is very understanding and flexible and allows 80% and there are more and more employers that seem to be ok with it.

I think at most 3 kids below 18 months per 1 person and at most 6 kids per person, max group size is I think 12 ( if there are no kids below 2 18 months else I think its max 10 and at most 2 -3 kids below 18 months.
 
Here, OP. I'll make you feel better.

My husband and I live in the UK. He's a dual citizen, but I'm American and our oldest daughter (almost 3yrs) is Australian. We have no family here, so no help. I did stay at home for kid #1 until she was 1.5, and for the current baby, but kid #2 just turned 1, so I'm putting both in nursery 3 full days a week so I can go back to work part-time. Just 3 days.

Our bill for 2 children, 3 days/week:

ÂŁ638 per kid per month
ÂŁ638 x 2 = ÂŁ1276/month = ~$1642/month
ÂŁ15,312 x 12 = ~ $19,706 a year for part-time day care

And, as a VISA holder, we are not eligible for the 15hrs of free childcare that every 3 year old here is entitled to. Yay.
 

Donos

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,530
My wife works at probably the cheapest daycare in SF because it is a co-op. Parents rates are based on their income and also the amount of hours they volunteer at the daycare themselves. Using parents as daycare help is... not as good as one may think.

Also daycare is expensive because the adult to kid ratio has to be higher than any other type of school.

Wtf, some parents i know from the kindergarden are totally dumb and/or insane. I would not want them to oversee my children at all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,202
Daycare is certainly expensive though it's not that expensive here. About 500$ a month, and that's if you live in places where it's expensive. Then you get child support from the state which covers about half of it, and the rate lowers about 30 percent when they turn 3 (so does the child support however). Futhermore you get a 30-50 percent discount for every child after the first.

It's also considered healthy for the kids to stay in daycare and I'm not sure how you would do it if both parents have a job otherwise (unless you're incredibly lucky that someone can somehow just stay with them all day). The people running the daycare also usually have a 3 year long education and their salary is paid by the state.

This is in europe though. (but I'd assume this varies a lot depending on where in europe)
 
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MattXIII

Member
Oct 28, 2017
396
My wife's work provides free daycare. We tried it but found our 8 month son got sick a lot from the other kids.

So we decided to get a live-in nanny, plus a second nanny that comes to the house and relieves the first nanny two or three times a week. Can't have a burnt-out childcarer.

Total cost is about $700 month. This works well for us.
 
My wife's work provides free daycare. We tried it but found our 8 month son got sick a lot from the other kids.

So we decided to get a live-in nanny, plus a second nanny that comes to the house and relieves the first nanny two or three times a week. Can't have a burnt-out childcarer.

Total cost is about $700 month. This works well for us.

$700/month for two nannies, one of which even lives there? Where do you live exactly?
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,265
No, if you use the Dependent Care FSA, you don't get to claim the credit, at least not on the same expenses. This is not a deduction on having kids, I'm taking strictly childcare. The credit is a little different, though, and in most cases if your income is high enough that you can pay that much, it's worth it to take the FSA:

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/12/fsa.asp






You're more paying to keep the spot. Otherwise you could just drop it and come back in after the vacation. In most places where costs are that high, there's enough of a waitlist that that's enough of a threat.
This is confusing me. I've read the link a couple times. This part is especially confusing:

You may have both a dependent care FSA and be eligible to claim the credit but not for the same expenses. You can choose either vehicle to claim the tax benefit of an expense depending on which gives you the largest tax break.

So I can have both, but maybe there's a maximum dollar amount that can be either put in the FSA or claimed as a credit but it fills both buckets simultaneously? My wife and I have one kid, so according to this the maximum credit is $3k. Does that mean once I put at least $3,000 in my DFSA my credit of $3k is also "filled" but I don't get to claim it?

It mentions "same expenses" and I'm wondering, is that a type of expense or dollars? If it's dollars, I'm going to have $20k of childcare expenses AFTER using the $5k I put in my dependent care FSA. Shouldn't the $20k in expenses be "other" expenses.

I might have to go to a CPA this year.
 

Johnny956

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,930
We paid almost 17k last year for our daughter in daycare costs. I can't wait until kindergarten. We have another kid coming in July so of course we'll be paying close to 30k in year in daycare costs. We get 3k back in taxes from those costs and we'll get 6k total with two kids but it's definitely a decent portion of our money
 
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Johnny956

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,930
This is confusing me. I've read the link a couple times. This part is especially confusing:



So I can have both, but maybe there's a maximum dollar amount that can be either put in the FSA or claimed as a credit but it fills both buckets simultaneously? My wife and I have one kid, so according to this the maximum credit is $3k. Does that mean once I put at least $3,000 in my DFSA my credit of $3k is also "filled" but I don't get to claim it?

It mentions "same expenses" and I'm wondering, is that a type of expense or dollars? If it's dollars, I'm going to have $20k of childcare expenses AFTER using the $5k I put in my dependent care FSA. Shouldn't the $20k in expenses be "other" expenses.

I might have to go to a CPA this year.


I'm on mobile but there is a specific form from the IRS that basically has you subtract your FSA from the credit so it's one or the other or a combination of the two but it doesn't stack

Edit: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2441.pdf
 
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sooperkool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
I don't have kids, but theoretically daycare is only a good value proposition if what it cost is less than one parent staying home, right? So at the end of the day, you still have more money than if one of the parents became a stay-at-home dad/mom. So at the end of the day you're still coming out "ahead", financially, vs. the alternative.

Yep, the wife stayed home with the kids because we would have lost money if she'd worked at the time.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,183
This is confusing me. I've read the link a couple times. This part is especially confusing:



So I can have both, but maybe there's a maximum dollar amount that can be either put in the FSA or claimed as a credit but it fills both buckets simultaneously? My wife and I have one kid, so according to this the maximum credit is $3k. Does that mean once I put at least $3,000 in my DFSA my credit of $3k is also "filled" but I don't get to claim it?

It mentions "same expenses" and I'm wondering, is that a type of expense or dollars? If it's dollars, I'm going to have $20k of childcare expenses AFTER using the $5k I put in my dependent care FSA. Shouldn't the $20k in expenses be "other" expenses.

I might have to go to a CPA this year.

Aren't tax laws awesome?

Johnny956 is right, it doesn't stack. With one kid, your max credit is 3k, which is below the 5k you've already put in the FSA. If you had two kids, your maximum would be 6k so you would have an extra 1k over the 5k you've already put in the FSA that you qualifies for the credit, but remember the percentage credit for that 1000 drops as your income goes up (I think it's like 20% if you make over 43k, so 200 bucks of tax credit) , so the benefits are less. I was mainly saying if you forgot to put money in your Dependent Care FSA at the beginning of the year you can still get a tax credit.

Also, Turbotax and probably other tax programs do a decent job of walking you through this. If you had to file without software by yourself it would be a nightmare, though.
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
I have two sons. 7 and 4. So we are effectively out of the woods.

My brother is paying $1500 a month for his infant daughter. It's nuts. You should not have to make $120k+ per year to afford childcare.

Millennials need to vote.


Curious what the operational costs are for running it out of your home. Like how many kids are there? How many employees? What does insurance cost?

I just ask because we know a woman who does it out of her house and it's a NICE income per month just doing the napkin math (and she was definitely living well). 250 a week x 4 weeks x 6 kids is 6K a month before you get into any expenses which is why I am curious what there is that eats into it.

$72K per year is nothing to brag about. Certainly not "scam" territory.
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,638
Isn't this usually older kids for after school care? Or are there some boys and girls clubs and Ys that run infant daycare and preschools?
I don't know about this. I'm pretty sure some Y's run younger children daycare. I worked with kids aged 7-12. It was after school but separate from the regular club, we offered more structure than provided in the normal club which essentially just let the kids run wild.

My point being that you might be able to find something more affordable if you look a bit. Non-profits are a good place to start.
 

Johnny956

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,930
Guess it depends where you live then. That's way more than I fucking make and I still could buy a 3 bedroom house back when I was 22 making 10 bucks an hour.

That's why I wanted to hear from the guy who owns a daycare what his expenses are. Utility costs? Cleaning services? Food? The woman we know still made parents send food for their kids every day so I don't know how common that is in daycare. There can't be THAT much overhead but maybe I'm missing something like "tranquilizers" that are through the roof in cost....

We never sent our kids through daycare since I work from home full time so I never had to price this shit out.

The daycare I sent my kid to, providers does breakfast/snack/lunch to the kids I'd imagine costs creep up very quickly especially with insurance
 

Dali

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,184
Scam implies there isn't any value in what you are giving money for. I'm glad you recognize all you are doing is whining OP. Excuse my bluntness but if you really thought it was a scam you'd stop using daycare. Oh wait... you can't because you're paying for a valuable and necessary (in your case) service.