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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Honestly most of them aren't even arguing that, they're arguing that Era's toxic. At least that's been my take from reading the thread.
The post I quoted specifically was trying to talk about how censoring people on a privately owned website like era was perfectly comparable to government's imprisoning people for free speech, is more or less what I was referring to. Feels like were on the precipice of that argument being brought up and I wanted to get out in front of it before these clowns try to gaslight the issue with fake definitions of free speech.

I don't know where you lost the thread, but Milo Yamanopolous is the (actual) white supremacist. Jaffe is the guy that says we need to gift him with a special platform.

None of this free speech shit applies to this argument in the slightest anyways. Private companies are under no legal or moral obligation to provide every human being with a platform to say whatever they want.
Then they come back with "I mean free speech in principle not the legal definition". Like its too easy to predict this song and dance with them because weve seen it way too many times.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
I mean I agree that ERA sucks at having actual nuanced conversations on anything more complicated than a Marvel movie... but that kind of goes for anywhere on the internet. The way forums and message boards are structured isnt really conductive for a back and forth argument.
I think this is a good point the internet has destroyed nuisance and even with my problems with the reliance on buzz words, you can't really say most people here don't mean well
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,032
I just dont get why he gives a shit what some rando on ERA thinks. This isnt GAF circa 2008 where every insider and dev had an account on it, thats reddit and Twitter now. Like it can only hurt him to talk about this anymore than it already has.

It's the classic small hands problem.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,207
Dark Space
That's an oversimplification and you know it.

For example remember the force awakens shitstormy and the fortnite dances debates?
What qualifies as hate was decided too long ago for me to entertain Jaffe's question. Sorry.

You can't claim to think critically and pretend you don't know or there is room for debate there.
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,356
Parts Unknown
No, I don't agree with that. Government and video game forum are all consist of people, it's not pathetic to compare the two. Like I mentioned Singapore is banning hate and racist speech and they also ban some speech that's not those. That's not oppressive in my view. If they decided to be strict with speech then there will be some casualties where they might have legit things to say but get banned.

Is Jaffe a clown? Maybe.
Is he a white supremacist? It's a strong phrase that I personally would be very careful and have done my due diligence before I'd call someone that.
Should Jaffe deserve a platform? Absolutely. Maybe not here but elsewhere he does.
Are you seriously comparing a government that is actively censoring free speech and squashing the rights of it's citizens to getting banned from a forum because they both consist of people?
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Yup, it feels like there are some people on Era's gaming side doesn't understand why so many people won't stand for anymore of this tired bullshit arguments coming from people that wants to get you killed/deported/enslaved. EtcetEra deal with this bullshit constantly because of the more natural political discussion over there.

Let's be honest, most of them do understand because they agree with what those assholes are saying. It's just that if they actually say what they feel they would get (rightfully) banned so instead they try to act dumb about it.
 

Euron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,773
If Jaffe can agree that

1. The Alt Right is bad
2. Milo preaches hate

Then there shouldn't be a debate. Hate festers and spreads like a disease and causes other people to act in awful ways. Milo and people like him should be shut down because what they offer is not a perspective but instead a virus. Jaffe claims that we should be open to other perspectives but has he considered that people like Milo are entirely unopen to other perspectives themselves? They use the "other perspectives" dog whistle to preach their hate without backlash. Since they refuse to play by conventional rules on civility and offer nonsensical hate disguised as opinion, the best course of action is to cut them off entirely.

Jaffe, the belief that people like Milo deserve a platform is ultimately ignorant. If you want to take that as a personal attack, that's your opinion and that seems to have been what caused you to make the video. But ultimately what has caused you to be attacked is an overall awful argument that ignores many important factors. That doesn't define you as a person unless you allow it to do so. So if you want to die on the hill of this ignorant belief then be my guest but be ready for backlash.

Edit: I should also point out what Hate Speech is since apparently you're questioning why we should dictate it. Milo and people like him are strongly against Transgender and Muslim people. The people in these groups are human beings despite Milo trying to dehumanize them and insulting them is a cruel act that should have no place in any discourse.
 
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Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,460
True! Though I think private services sticking with their policies of what they deem as hate speech is what "deplatformed" him, not angry mobs. My general point is the concept of what's toxic might start to get blurry over time and its used as a blunt force tool to oppose anything someone doesn't like. We currently have the benefit of Alex Jones and Milo being blatant pieces of human garbage. I see the concept of deplatforming eventually turning on its creators though. edit: and this isn't an alt. I've posted on neogaf for 11+ years and I'm old and more of a lurker than a talker the past few years.
Services like twitter only stuck with their policies because enough noise was being made that it began to hurt their bottom line. These people and many like them were on the services spewing garbage for years and it's only when the "mob" got loud enough that they act. Until then, they're literally profitting off of these people so they do nothing because corporations by their nature do not care about morality or people, they only care about money
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I mean I agree that ERA sucks at having actual nuanced conversations on anything more complicated than a Marvel movie... but that kind of goes for anywhere on the internet. The way forums and message boards are structured isnt really conductive for a back and forth argument.
I'd love to get examples of what discussions you deem to be this way here. Please elaborate and provide examples.
 

Deleted member 16025

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,506
A lot of you need to take a deep breath and get over this silly shit. He pretty clearly states he doesn't like Milo but he thinks that turd should be able to speak his mind. There are a ton of normal, decent people who agree with that and them being wrong doesn't make them bad people.

It's a complicated issue and not one you're going to settle by screaming insults over the internet. There are definitely cases where that kind of reaction is warranted, but this ain't it.
 

tutomos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,612
ResetERA is not a government.
Governments exist protect the rights of citizens, including not censoring it's citizens. This is, as you said, a strong American value.
ResetERA is private property. They can kick you off for what ever reason they want, much like I can kick you out of my house if I don't want you in my house. The ability to own private property and do with it as you please is also a strong American value.

ResetERA doesn't exist to protect your rights, it's an internet forum. A government does. They are not the same thing. Please actually read my posts if you're going to respond to them.

ResetERA doesn't have to protect my rights, 100%. But can it respect my point of views? I already said in my original post I don't have a problem with how a person or community governs themselves. I don't have a problem if I'm kicked out here when I don't adhere to the rules here. That's totally fair to me.

I can absolutely make the comparison and you can also make your LAMO comment. Fair game.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
A lot of you need to take a deep breath and get over this silly shit. He pretty clearly states he doesn't like Milo but he thinks that turd should be able to speak his mind. There are a ton of normal, decent people who agree with that and them being wrong doesn't make them bad people.

It's a complicated issue and not one you're going to settle by screaming insults over the internet. There are definitely cases where that kind of reaction is warranted, but this ain't it.
He wants to allow racists and bigots to be able to freely speak and radicalize / recruit a fan base. Fuck that
 
Feb 13, 2018
3,844
Japan
The post I quoted specifically was trying to talk about how censoring people on a privately owned website like era was perfectly comparable to government's imprisoning people for free speech, is more or less what I was referring to. Feels like were on the precipice of that argument being brought up and I wanted to get out in front of it before these clowns try to gaslight the issue with fake definitions of free speech.
Oh, right, I getcha. The thread feels like it's split into two topics. (Both of which I think should be had for the record)
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
A lot of you need to take a deep breath and get over this silly shit. He pretty clearly states he doesn't like Milo but he thinks that turd should be able to speak his mind. There are a ton of normal, decent people who agree with that and them being wrong doesn't make them bad people.

It's a complicated issue and not one you're going to settle by screaming insults over the internet. There are definitely cases where that kind of reaction is warranted, but this ain't it.
No he thinks he should be given a platform to speak his mind. At least understand the argument before coming in here and telling people they need to get over this.

Oh, right, I getcha. The thread feels like it's split into two topics. (Both of which I think should be had for the record)
I'm all for getting these peeps on record haha!
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Whether he's right or wrong can any of you recognize how big of bullies you are. This place is so toxic and the posters causing the toxicity believe they're the moral standard. It's so sickening. Leave the man alone for fucks sake.

There are many similar posts skimming this thread. I have to say I'm sort of bewildered by this stance.

Are people hyperbolic about their opinions on here? Of course, it's the Internet.
Are some posts uncalled for and unfair? Of course, it's the Internet.

The difference I find with reactions like this one is the man is putting his opinion out there. And apparently criticizing said opinion with facts about deplatforming is a form of bullying? Seriously I am so incredibly bewildered by responses such as these. The man made a couple of good games, that doesn't mean he shouldn't have his opinion questioned. Otherwise what is the point of putting his opinion out there? I thought it was to learn and understand new things. Not talk at people and get upset when people said you're enabling these alt-right toolbags with your own rhetoric.

A lot of you need to take a deep breath and get over this silly shit. He pretty clearly states he doesn't like Milo but he thinks that turd should be able to speak his mind. There are a ton of normal, decent people who agree with that and them being wrong doesn't make them bad people.

It's a complicated issue and not one you're going to settle by screaming insults over the internet. There are definitely cases where that kind of reaction is warranted, but this ain't it.

Another similar post. If he doesn't want to learn and understand more about how other people feel about a topic, why bother putting it on social media? I truly do not understand posts like these. Usually what makes people bad is not only the inability to self-reflect but to take responsibility and own up to mistakes. Giving people like Milo platforms is a mistake. There is a ton of evidence of how effective deplatforming is. I don't care how many normal people agree with that (I'm not sure how you've even quantified this anyway). Normal people elected Donald Trump. They don't get a pass.
 

galv

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,048
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
LOL can someone even point to when this forum does any of that? Do the mods have a secret site when they patch updates and this shit goes on where we don't know about it?
Era: "Are we the baddies?"
I've been wondering what has sparked that doxxing narrative. There were some details posted in the CD Projekt Twitter thread (by members), but those were also removed by the moderation really fast. So I don't know. I assume the person is someone who doesn't like how progressive this place is and how shit gets called out here. So they make shit up, I've seen similar claims in other instances too. Possible it's someone permbanned and salty about it.
You mean the thing Jaffe started doing before anyone else? Yeah people are going to call him names when he started it himself. News at 11
Nah, many people here jumped on him way before he commented the thread. Calling him alt-right, I think that's bit worse than being called a moron.
 
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Slime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,971
This whole thing boils down to the fact that being tolerant of intolerance is fucking stupid, and calls to do so are almost always done in bad faith.
 

tutomos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,612
Are you seriously comparing a government that is actively censoring free speech and squashing the rights of it's citizens to getting banned from a forum because they both consist of people?

Your personal pov on what kind of country Singapore is has no bearing on why I made the comparison.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,426
A lot of you need to take a deep breath and get over this silly shit. He pretty clearly states he doesn't like Milo but he thinks that turd should be able to speak his mind. There are a ton of normal, decent people who agree with that and them being wrong doesn't make them bad people.

It's a complicated issue and not one you're going to settle by screaming insults over the internet. There are definitely cases where that kind of reaction is warranted, but this ain't it.

i'm pretty sure those "normal people" rescinded his invitation to CPAC
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
A lot of you need to take a deep breath and get over this silly shit. He pretty clearly states he doesn't like Milo but he thinks that turd should be able to speak his mind. There are a ton of normal, decent people who agree with that and them being wrong doesn't make them bad people.

It's a complicated issue and not one you're going to settle by screaming insults over the internet. There are definitely cases where that kind of reaction is warranted, but this ain't it.
Nobody arguing that Milo can't speak his mind. Milo can speak his mind and people can an have responded in kind. Jaffe's issue is that he mistakenly believes there's a societal breakdown of critical thinking because people have already decided they don't want to listened to Milo. Jaffe developed this response by making the justified hate against Milo some sort of inherent cultural issue. It's disingenuous nonsense and the common rhetoric of people who think that debate is more valuable than anything esle.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,761
lol i went and searched for this now

it's here:



jaffe starts whining about bosman and wario64 (lol) at 17:52

and shu comes in and at 42:22 defends kyle like a fucking boss

the way KF responds is kinda shameful. they enthusiastically go along with calling kyle a troll when they're speaking with jaffe, then when shu ia coming on to defend him they try to change the topic as quickly as possible. it's kinda funny to see. i guess they were really hurt by kyle's "i think they're less than kinda funny" quip that one time


holy moly this is my first time seeing this. Hilarious
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
This guy is a mystery to me. Wants free speech for a pedophile Nazi but tells us we should stop criticizing him, for calling him out on that? Amazing.
Jaffe is 40-50 years old and has his feelings hurt over that? Does he ever admit he's wrong or is having a shitty opinion suddenly protected by 'the American constitution'?

@Jaffe, in case you read this: as a German I can assure you that giving right wings, racists and nationalists a platform to spew their hateful shit is not a good idea. That's why hate speech is banned by law nowadays in many countries and that's good for democracy. Democracy doesn't mean you have to respect anti-democratic ideas. Calling far right ideology a valid opinion is quite an impressive thing to do. Instead of wasting your energy by defending scum, you could take a stance against hateful right-wing ideology, doesn't that sound fair? Calling Era alt-left only shows how incredibly immature you are. You wanna die on this hill because you can't take criticism? Can you even grasp why you're being criticized here? I doubt it.
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
I thought he was given a platform, and he did what he did with it. What exactly is the problem? That decent society didn't continue to excuse and amplify his obviously harmful use of that platform?
 

Vishmarx

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,043
Yeah... Reset era is as toxic as Gamergate, breaitbart, r the donald and more... we should aks if we are the baddies. /s

I couldnt care less what you ask yourself and who youd like to compare with or how you choose to isolate the meaning of toxity.
Majority of the prominent posters here are under the illusion that you can't be shitty people if you preach a few good values on. the internet.

.
Also, pretty sure r the donald isnt a gaming forum but if thats your benchmark to make yourself feel better about era then sure.

Either way this discussion leads nowhere.
Feel free to call me a coward, ive already said my piece of jaffe and have no reason to engage any further.
Sorry for any derailment i may have caused.
 
Feb 16, 2018
1,561
Ugh fuck off Jaffe, stop defending nazis it's not a good hill to die on. Nobody is owed a platform for their bullshit.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
I thought he was given a platform, and he did what he did with it. What exactly is the problem? That decent society didn't continue to excuse and amplify his obviously harmful use of that platform?
It genuinely feels like people like Jaffe "weren't around" when everyone decided Milo was a scumbag and is for some reason just now not even totally caught up with everyone else.
 

Brokenrobot

Member
Jul 12, 2018
295
lol David, buddy seems like you have too much time on your hands and it's fucking with your head a little bit. You should get a job keep yourself occupied it will stop your brain from turning to pudding. (Not a job in video games though, obviously. )
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
who could have expected this from david jaffe

david "hillary could do more harm than trump" jaffe:
coqmmu-viaaayq0ywstw.jpg

(read from bottom up)

david "I fundamentally agree with a lot of the things that a number of the people who claim to support Gamergate agree with" jaffe

david "new [gaming] hardware is like new pussy" jaffe

david "women should use guns so they don't get raped" jaffe

or david "Wait, what are you saying? I didn't catch that cause I was distracted by the pussy on your face" (directed at female gaffer) jaffe
Christ, its all there, hes a silent alt righter.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,032
A lot of people speak without realizing that the people they're talking to are listening. They speak to take their thoughts out in the air and put them into open space, where they can admire them. So when they someone responds to their that we need to give people a platform to talk about why pedophilia is good or women should just be quiet about this sexual harassment thing because I'm tired or listening to it or I think racism to white people is actually worse than racism to non-white people or whatever with a "that's kind of fucked up dude", it registers as an attack. They were just saying words; how were they to know that people were waiting in the wings to reply to them?
 
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