I honestly believe sometimes when people say it, they do believe men should pay but think it sounds bad to say it. It's a different way of saying the same thing.
Why? What is the reason men should be paying for dates?
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Dating Apps suck... for women
- Thread starter Deleted member 9306
- Start date
So you pay for everyone when you have the idea to go somewhere with your friends?
Your observations are most likely true, and many of them are true in the reverse situation as well. The basicness of profiles was unbearable when I was online dating.
Sometimes, yes? Especially if it's something that I like but they don't necessarily like.
But going somewhere with friends is not the same occasion of trying to impress and entertain someone, you know that.
Twin Peaks was pretty much a national obsession for the very short time that it was on the air. It was making it to magazine covers and being discussed extensively. There were tie-in books and novelizations. Twin Peaks was parodied on The Simpsons and Darkwing Duck. It arguably had more pop culture impact then that it did now.
So I am a black man who dates mostly black women on dating Apps. I am an extrovert who loves smart, nerdy introverts. So here are my response to your concerns. Keep in mind I am not a saint when it comes to dating, but I am gainfully employed, an admitted nerd, single (though that might change with this current woman that I am dating) No children, and relatively well-liked by most people (aka good hygiene, funny, handsome enough, etc)
(I'm not just looking for sex) I am usually not just looking for sex either......initially. However, that's because I appreciate the intimacy of sex with a partner I am attracted too. I am looking for physical attraction and expressions of that attraction. There is no timeline but a lack of physical attraction will lead to an end of the relationship. Women are usually surprised how quickly I ask them out after we chat, but I tell them from the start I am not looking for a text buddy. I am not a 100% sapiosexual (though I can't date a dumb woman). I feel like that is how it is with most men if they are honest. After they get to a certain level of dating someone, you want to pleasure of a physical relationship. Now does that mean sex early? No. but I am looking for signs of mutual sexual attraction early in the relationship.
(The flipping fetishization I get is unacceptable and annoying.) That is definitely weirdo shit and you should not accept it. Now is someone says "I love dark skin girls because they are beautiful!") or something like that sure. I told this current girl I loved her intelligence but it is not a fetish just a preference. If he says some dumb shit like "Dark girls do what light skin girls won't do)...... get the hell away from that weirdo you deserve better!
(Quality of dates.) That comes with experience and income. Not to say you should date older guys, but when I was 24 I was transitioning from college dating (aka Netflix/DVD and snuggle, leading to Netflix/DVD and chill) to now I have to take a date to a decent restaurant and talk. I hate to say it but its not fair to think a guy at 24 knows what is up. Usually, at that age, people have no cash, and if you do have a job that pays well you are working your ass off to get promoted to a better paying/stable job. Meaning you haven't assessed and adjusted to the new requirements of dating. At that age, I use to take women to a rinky dick bar where the bartender would literally light the bar on fire and pretend he was Harry Potter...... It was stupid, but the drinks were cheap, and it was interesting enough to give me a topic to talk about. I would actually suggest inviting guys to meet you in a neighborhood that has good places to eat and then forcing them to take you to not an expensive restaurant but a good one. Maybe be really cool and say "hey let me get the first round" or "this place has good appetizers, I'll get a round of wings for us" and then see if they offer to pay their shares like drinks or an entree. If they say no it cost you 15 bucks to realize the guy isn't what you are looking for.
(Age of men.) I recently met this really great woman 6 years younger than me (She's 29 I'm 35). We're early in the relationship but I like her enough I'm putting in actual effort to hopefully make it last. She is a black girl magic candidate and I appreciate her for it, she on the flip side never dated anyone as old as me. The saying is guys mature slower than women and maybe it is true. God knows the stories she told me of her prior dates has me freaking out cause those other guys were idiots and assholes...... but I know when I was there age I was an idiot, an asshole, and broke to boot..... Hell, when I was their age I probably would have gone after an entirely different type of woman because I didn't know what I wanted in a relationship at that age. I'm not saying date older, I'm saying cut guys a break. It takes a lot of self-assessment to know what you want at 21-24 and most guys don't even begin to think like that until 27-30.
(Attraction in general/Basicness of men) Most people..... hell damn near everyone is basic. It is true. All of our hobbies are seen as basic to people who don't share that interest. Just see if he likes you enough to not call your interest basic and then bothers to learn about the things that make you tick. I am literally learning about this woman I'm dating because I feel she is worth the effort. I don't always do that, hell I hardly do. So based on your OP I don't think you need a guy to jump into the conversation as much as they are willing to catch up. The quote about "by Odin, by Amaterasu, by Anansi, by the powers of Greyskull" to me screams you need to find a guy willing to learn that, because the guys who get that reference at your age are still focused on video games or probably getting ready to go to grad school, or dating their current girl because they haven't come to terms they have to move on from Netflix and chill to dating. Find a guy who is so into you he is willing to be less "basic" to impress you.
(Guys liking me, then I'll like them back, then they won't respond.) It goes both ways. Hinge is really good for black people dating, better for black men than black women. A lot of women make the first move on that app. I used OkCupid and the Eharmony (which is a mess app but I digress) occasionally I have liked a woman and didn't get a response (I tend to use "let me ask a question, and compliment" openers). You got to deal with it. No short cuts, keep meeting people and hitting that like button. You got to put the work in yourself, I don't know if anyone really knows what they want until they know exactly what they don't want. So learn what you don't want and then go for the opposite of that.
So the theme of this is dating is all about finding someone worth the effort of actually caring about, who in turn thinks you are worth the same (or maybe even more) effort. Give the guys in your age group a chance, also don't put to much pressure on yourself to meet someone. Focus on self-improvement for 6 months and focus on what you have learned about yourself and what you want from dating. Then come back and be selective in your pursuit of that.
That's my advice. I hope it helps
(I'm not just looking for sex) I am usually not just looking for sex either......initially. However, that's because I appreciate the intimacy of sex with a partner I am attracted too. I am looking for physical attraction and expressions of that attraction. There is no timeline but a lack of physical attraction will lead to an end of the relationship. Women are usually surprised how quickly I ask them out after we chat, but I tell them from the start I am not looking for a text buddy. I am not a 100% sapiosexual (though I can't date a dumb woman). I feel like that is how it is with most men if they are honest. After they get to a certain level of dating someone, you want to pleasure of a physical relationship. Now does that mean sex early? No. but I am looking for signs of mutual sexual attraction early in the relationship.
(The flipping fetishization I get is unacceptable and annoying.) That is definitely weirdo shit and you should not accept it. Now is someone says "I love dark skin girls because they are beautiful!") or something like that sure. I told this current girl I loved her intelligence but it is not a fetish just a preference. If he says some dumb shit like "Dark girls do what light skin girls won't do)...... get the hell away from that weirdo you deserve better!
(Quality of dates.) That comes with experience and income. Not to say you should date older guys, but when I was 24 I was transitioning from college dating (aka Netflix/DVD and snuggle, leading to Netflix/DVD and chill) to now I have to take a date to a decent restaurant and talk. I hate to say it but its not fair to think a guy at 24 knows what is up. Usually, at that age, people have no cash, and if you do have a job that pays well you are working your ass off to get promoted to a better paying/stable job. Meaning you haven't assessed and adjusted to the new requirements of dating. At that age, I use to take women to a rinky dick bar where the bartender would literally light the bar on fire and pretend he was Harry Potter...... It was stupid, but the drinks were cheap, and it was interesting enough to give me a topic to talk about. I would actually suggest inviting guys to meet you in a neighborhood that has good places to eat and then forcing them to take you to not an expensive restaurant but a good one. Maybe be really cool and say "hey let me get the first round" or "this place has good appetizers, I'll get a round of wings for us" and then see if they offer to pay their shares like drinks or an entree. If they say no it cost you 15 bucks to realize the guy isn't what you are looking for.
(Age of men.) I recently met this really great woman 6 years younger than me (She's 29 I'm 35). We're early in the relationship but I like her enough I'm putting in actual effort to hopefully make it last. She is a black girl magic candidate and I appreciate her for it, she on the flip side never dated anyone as old as me. The saying is guys mature slower than women and maybe it is true. God knows the stories she told me of her prior dates has me freaking out cause those other guys were idiots and assholes...... but I know when I was there age I was an idiot, an asshole, and broke to boot..... Hell, when I was their age I probably would have gone after an entirely different type of woman because I didn't know what I wanted in a relationship at that age. I'm not saying date older, I'm saying cut guys a break. It takes a lot of self-assessment to know what you want at 21-24 and most guys don't even begin to think like that until 27-30.
(Attraction in general/Basicness of men) Most people..... hell damn near everyone is basic. It is true. All of our hobbies are seen as basic to people who don't share that interest. Just see if he likes you enough to not call your interest basic and then bothers to learn about the things that make you tick. I am literally learning about this woman I'm dating because I feel she is worth the effort. I don't always do that, hell I hardly do. So based on your OP I don't think you need a guy to jump into the conversation as much as they are willing to catch up. The quote about "by Odin, by Amaterasu, by Anansi, by the powers of Greyskull" to me screams you need to find a guy willing to learn that, because the guys who get that reference at your age are still focused on video games or probably getting ready to go to grad school, or dating their current girl because they haven't come to terms they have to move on from Netflix and chill to dating. Find a guy who is so into you he is willing to be less "basic" to impress you.
(Guys liking me, then I'll like them back, then they won't respond.) It goes both ways. Hinge is really good for black people dating, better for black men than black women. A lot of women make the first move on that app. I used OkCupid and the Eharmony (which is a mess app but I digress) occasionally I have liked a woman and didn't get a response (I tend to use "let me ask a question, and compliment" openers). You got to deal with it. No short cuts, keep meeting people and hitting that like button. You got to put the work in yourself, I don't know if anyone really knows what they want until they know exactly what they don't want. So learn what you don't want and then go for the opposite of that.
So the theme of this is dating is all about finding someone worth the effort of actually caring about, who in turn thinks you are worth the same (or maybe even more) effort. Give the guys in your age group a chance, also don't put to much pressure on yourself to meet someone. Focus on self-improvement for 6 months and focus on what you have learned about yourself and what you want from dating. Then come back and be selective in your pursuit of that.
That's my advice. I hope it helps
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A girl always impress me if she expects me to pay the bill. Not in a good way.
Back when I used dating apps, people who wrote "Not looking for hookups" weren't seen as people who didn't want to hookup. In fact, most of my hookups had that in their profile. Don't think that is a deterrent for men wanting to smash 'cause for those who do well on the apps, that line has never been an issue.
Since you said "it's just general manners that if you invite someone to go with you somewhere, you don't ask them to pay. " I assumed you meant every situation. But we're in a thread about dating so I might have overreached a bit. Still, it's not general manners, it's just a set of manners that you happen to believe in. Inviting someone somewhere doesn't mean you have to pay for it, nor that they should expect you to.
Hmm, are you trying paid or freemium dating apps? I went the paid route this time around and it helped with more of what I was looking for (looking more for a serious relationship, professional/career oriented). Also the "a lot of profiles come across as boring" shouldn't be an excuse to write people off - some people are poor at expressing themselves on their dating profile or social media. Besides, do you want to already know everything about a person before you actually go out? It's a lot more fun if there's a little mystery and you slowly learn more interesting tidbits about the other person as you date. I met my girlfriend on Match and her profile was pretty bare bones, I emailed her because she was cute and lived close by, turns out we totally clicked in person and are coming up on our 2 year anniversary....
And yes there are plenty of women who have their own generic profiles ("I love the beach, the yankees, dive bars, and binge watching the Office" / "I'm fluent in sarcasm"). Doesn't mean I wrote them off, since some of them were a lot more interesting in person.
I don't think a 26 year old man dating a 21 year old woman is that weird. Coffee/tea is a nice first date, or drinks at a bar... informal, good way to get to know someone without any commitment/expectation. What would your ideal first date be?
Finally, a lot of what I play are certainly 'niche' video games (like, some super obscure stuff your average RE poster won't even know - see avatar) but I don't think I've ever mentioned anything specific, just general "video games" or "retro games" on my profile. Seems like a strange expectation.
At least for me, online dating was a big numbers game. Take some chances and don't be afraid to send some emails out every now and then. Good luck!
And yes there are plenty of women who have their own generic profiles ("I love the beach, the yankees, dive bars, and binge watching the Office" / "I'm fluent in sarcasm"). Doesn't mean I wrote them off, since some of them were a lot more interesting in person.
I don't think a 26 year old man dating a 21 year old woman is that weird. Coffee/tea is a nice first date, or drinks at a bar... informal, good way to get to know someone without any commitment/expectation. What would your ideal first date be?
Finally, a lot of what I play are certainly 'niche' video games (like, some super obscure stuff your average RE poster won't even know - see avatar) but I don't think I've ever mentioned anything specific, just general "video games" or "retro games" on my profile. Seems like a strange expectation.
At least for me, online dating was a big numbers game. Take some chances and don't be afraid to send some emails out every now and then. Good luck!
You kind of seem like you have a chip on your shoulder. Have fun with it and eventually you might be successful but it's like you're looking for reasons to not date. I've had experiences with women who actively look for the smallest thing to focus on that may turn them off, so that they can move on to the next person in their queue as quickly as possible. Regarding basic people, that's most of us. You're just looking for people that like the same basic things that you do. If they don't then of course you're not going to be a good match.
In what way is it easier to be a man, especially a man of colour, than being a women on dating apps? Like it's a completely different thing. Whereas most men don't get any matches for months on end. Women have to choose the one they like the most out of a pool of men. Wonder why sone made that comparison.
I share your sentiments about the fetishization tho. It's awful what you must have to listen to.
I share your sentiments about the fetishization tho. It's awful what you must have to listen to.
"I love hiking."
No, you don't. Every guy wants to take me out for coffee and sit down somewhere. I love a good trail walk though. I've had multiple men
1. forget or never think to bring water,
2. dress in the warmest clothes for hiking, and
3. almost completely pass out 30 minutes in. It's not like we're scaling the Rockies here, but my god if you aren't up for it don't kill yourself to save face.
And stop flipping me off in your profile. They should rename these apps to "Fuck You, But U Fuck Me Please?"
No, you don't. Every guy wants to take me out for coffee and sit down somewhere. I love a good trail walk though. I've had multiple men
1. forget or never think to bring water,
2. dress in the warmest clothes for hiking, and
3. almost completely pass out 30 minutes in. It's not like we're scaling the Rockies here, but my god if you aren't up for it don't kill yourself to save face.
And stop flipping me off in your profile. They should rename these apps to "Fuck You, But U Fuck Me Please?"
try hinge. also 'not into hookups' can mean that you just don't want one night stands but you're still into having sex earlier rather than later. you might want to be more descriptive.
try hinge. it unlocks most of the stuff people pay for in other apps right away.
try hinge. it unlocks most of the stuff people pay for in other apps right away.
i mean, there's a lot to complain about, but they're as popular as they are because they're kind of awesome.
Relationships should be a 50/50 thing. If a woman doesn't at least make an offer at the second date then that is a red flag.
Probably said a million times but for the first date thing there's no point in expecting much, since people don't want to waste their time (and money) on a first date with someone who in the end isn't their type at all. It's just an excuse to meet in person in a context that isn't random. It's not meant to be amazing, it's just meeting someone. There's no reason at all for a first date to be anything serious; first dates used to be the result of people knowing each other, such as schoolmates, friends of friends, colleagues, etc., finally agreeing to go on a date. Now it's a few texts leading to a date, you don't KNOW each other AT ALL yet, so try to keep some perspective here. It's not about "the date", "the thing we did which was different than what people usually do" or whatever, it's just about meeting one another for real. A real first date would come later.
Paying for a date to impress them is kinda lame imo. If I want to pay for a date it's really just because I'm feeling generous. Basically because I want to, not because of a dating rule.
I like dating to be 50/50. The same with relationships. I don't want to be going on dates to entertain a girl, by which I mean, I hate going on dates feeling like I have to prove myself to someone. I want to go out and have a mutually enjoyable experience. So any entertaining and impressing is going both ways. I think if anything could be pointed out to help OP's experience, it is to expect to be catered to less and do some catering to yourself.
User Banned (1 Week): Hostility; Prior Bans for Similar Behavior
I like how OP tries to hide their nasty personality by using funny gifs, probably should have been a sign that you're being shitty when you couldn't actually list your hangups without constantly insisting you're not being shitty.
Your tone and experiences sound like the typical jaded Millenial/Gen Z that indulges in too much cynical, misanthropic social media and entertainment and thus can't take anything in good faith. Hope it works out for you, entertaining read at least.
Your tone and experiences sound like the typical jaded Millenial/Gen Z that indulges in too much cynical, misanthropic social media and entertainment and thus can't take anything in good faith. Hope it works out for you, entertaining read at least.
Also what's with the whole I don't pursue men? Rules have changed girl, dating is now first come first served. Don't tie your self worth to your ability to get dudes to chase you. If you feel like a guy is interesting it's fine to show interest as well rather than just expecting it.
This seems like a bit of a shame, you find it annoying when a guy doesn't send the first message but you won't do it yourself.
User banned (1 month): hostility, mansplaining towards another member, previously banned for similar
Online dating is just shitty in general, but if you think it's that bad for a woman you'd have written a book on what it's like being a man. The deck is heavily stacked in your favor.
Yeah, from reading the OP she seems generally awful.
Not only that but people go on coffee dates as the first date because it can be quick and painless if there is no chemistry, or you can spend hours getting to know each other. There is nothing worse than being locked in to a long ass first date when you know 5 secs in that it won't go anywhere.
Yeah, from reading the OP she seems generally awful.
Not only that but people go on coffee dates as the first date because it can be quick and painless if there is no chemistry, or you can spend hours getting to know each other. There is nothing worse than being locked in to a long ass first date when you know 5 secs in that it won't go anywhere.
Coffee dates are basically pre-dates. They're casual and non-threatening for both parties, which means they're a great way to size each other up before committing to anything more significant.
Also, the best possible outcome where paying for food/drinks on a date is concerned is where you have to fight with your date over who pays. I'll always move to pay for us both before my date can pay (on a first date), but I'm always secretly disappointing if they don't put up any kind of resistance.
Also, the best possible outcome where paying for food/drinks on a date is concerned is where you have to fight with your date over who pays. I'll always move to pay for us both before my date can pay (on a first date), but I'm always secretly disappointing if they don't put up any kind of resistance.
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Men and women have different sets of issues to contend with when dating (which can further be splintered into age, race, body type, sexual preference etc) and a whole bunch of shared ones. It's tough for everyone. Try not to let bad experiences tarnish your opinion of other people in general!
Racial fetishization and pushy men are legitimate grievances, and I'm sorry that you have to put up with that shit. That said, the rest of your post seems a bit silly.
Honest question: what do you have to offer to any potential partner? You're weirdly focused on what potential dates can do for you and all of the things that they do wrong. How are people supposed to know that you don't like coffee or tea dates? We aren't mind-readers! If you don't want to go out for coffee or tea, suggest something else. What makes you so interesting, as opposed to the "basic" men who like video games, anime, or Netflix? Judging from your post history, you like video games and anime, so I don't get this disdain for people that share common interests (granted, it's a different story if they're substituting hobbies for an actual personality).
If you want to be picky, that's your prerogative. However, you better have something that sets you apart from the myriad other women on dating apps. Dating is a two-way street—put in some effort of your own instead of expecting others to carry the weight.
Honest question: what do you have to offer to any potential partner? You're weirdly focused on what potential dates can do for you and all of the things that they do wrong. How are people supposed to know that you don't like coffee or tea dates? We aren't mind-readers! If you don't want to go out for coffee or tea, suggest something else. What makes you so interesting, as opposed to the "basic" men who like video games, anime, or Netflix? Judging from your post history, you like video games and anime, so I don't get this disdain for people that share common interests (granted, it's a different story if they're substituting hobbies for an actual personality).
If you want to be picky, that's your prerogative. However, you better have something that sets you apart from the myriad other women on dating apps. Dating is a two-way street—put in some effort of your own instead of expecting others to carry the weight.
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Coffee is the most sensible choice. Maybe going for drinks or a light lunch at the very most. I'm not gonna ball out on a stranger.
I totally get most of those complaints, and I'm a guy! It even makes it hard for normal guys looking for something "real" just trying to get a girl to talk on say plenty of fish is almost impossible because they get tons of hookup requests or dick pics a day.
This is the elephant in the room that people don't want to address.
It's an antiquated and, quite frankly, sexist mindset to maintain that men are responsible for approaching in dating.
I somehow glossed over the "I don't pursue men" thing in my initial read of the OP which makes it a lot harder to empathize with OP now. They come off as hypocritical like you point out but also when you apply "I don't pursue men" to the rest of what they say, they come off has arrogant. OP seems to say they are really interesting (Brazilian jujitsu) but these men are so basic and not interesting, also most of them are not attractive enough for her. She is rarely satisfied with the dates they take her on but will never suggest anything else and she expects them to pay for her because as a woman she shouldn't be expected to.
OP comes off as wanting to be pursued and catered too without putting in the effort while complaining the whole way. It's a bad attitude in general, but as a woman that attitude is probably just making it harder than it has to be. You're gonna look like the "Princess" type, OP. Most guys don't want to date women who think like that.
Many years ago, a friend and I made fake profiles on OKCupid. She made an account as a man and I made an account as a woman. I didn't ever actually reply to messages or anything but so many of the messages I got were so fucking unbelievably disgusting. I later edited the profile to say I was mostly interested in other women and had little interest in men and still got tons of gross messages. I then later edited the profile with a bunch of rules for who is allowed to message (like a restriction on people over a certain age) and what not to say in messages (I also screenshoted one particular message and posted a link to the screenshot on the profile) and I PLASTERED "DO NOT MESSAGE UNLESS YOU READ ALL THESE RULES" all over the profile and it didn't slow down the gross messages in the slightest.
You'd be surprised how many women still stubbornly insist that it's a man's "job" to do all of the pursuing.
I mean, I kind of get it. It's a position of power and advantage that I'd be hesitant to relinquish too if conventional etiquette said the opposite sex must come to me.
I've always wondered how the dynamics would change if the script were flipped and it became the expectation for women to shoot the shots instead. Would they get as desperate/dejected/gross/angry as men seem to if they were the ones sending hundreds of unanswered DMs?
I always did 50/50 and my dates would go out of their way to specify going dutch with the bill. Then I had a few where they got pissed that I was splitting it, so from then on I assumed I was covering everything, but if they didn't offer then I'd usually not bother asking them on a second date.
I remember reading in article where a website setup an account on OkCupid with a picture of a really good looking woman. And they pretty much pretended to say the worst kind of shit to every guy that messaged and the guy would just laugh it off and keep messaging.
If I ever pick up a dating app, I'll be sure to avoid these pitfalls. They sound like pretty common mistakes people are making between this thread and the other thread.
Hang in there, my sister. I met a couple this past weekend while scuba diving that were down here (So Florida) to get married and they met on Tinder. It can happen. Just keep batting away the flies.
Hang in there, my sister. I met a couple this past weekend while scuba diving that were down here (So Florida) to get married and they met on Tinder. It can happen. Just keep batting away the flies.
Yo why people so thirsty
I'm not an online dating expert but the whole why u so basic? thing always sounds super weird to me.
Personally I'd probably be more hesitant to try and meet a person who has bunch of weird shit on their profile that I know I'll never be able/have the time to be/ want to be part of. On the other hand if I know we both like watching movies then that's something more...tangible?
Also people have jobs, who even has time and energy to be an interesting person after 7pm lol
Personally I'd probably be more hesitant to try and meet a person who has bunch of weird shit on their profile that I know I'll never be able/have the time to be/ want to be part of. On the other hand if I know we both like watching movies then that's something more...tangible?
Also people have jobs, who even has time and energy to be an interesting person after 7pm lol
I feel basically the opposite. If they don't have anything out of the ordinary on their profile, and their photos don't have anything special in them either - I don't feel inclined at all to text something.
I make video games by day, but I am an aspiring woodworker and chef by night. Might not be interesting to all, but I find it quite intriguing.