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Oct 26, 2017
3,201
Belarus
We are constantly examining how the growth of Steam affects new titles and what it means for developers. Usually, our own internal questions mirror those of many in the development community.
One of our goals is to be a platform where great games can realize success. So a natural place to start this analysis was to ask: Are more games finding success? Of course, "success" is different for each developer, so we looked at several different benchmarks of success in this analysis.

Regardless of how we defined success, though, we found that an increasing number of games were achieving it.
unknown.png

We were encouraged by the results above - there are more hits than ever these days, and it looks like our decision to open the platform helped that happen. But we also wanted to study how releases across the distribution – such as the median release, the 25th percentile release, and the 75th percentile release – were doing. (The 'median release' is the game that half the releases did better than and half the releases did worse than. You could also call it the '50th percentile release.')
unknown.png

Here's a summary of what we found:
  • Over the years, there's been a continuous increase in the number of games achieving success on Steam. We'll dig into this in the first section below.
  • Earnings prospects for most - but not all - games improved in 2019. We'll dig into this in the second section below.

More at the link:
steamcommunity.com

Steam :: Steamworks Development :: Data Deep Dive: How are new releases on Steam performing?

We are constantly examining how the growth of Steam affects new titles and what it means for developers. Usually, our own internal questions mirror those of many in the development community. In an effort to share some of our findings, we've put together the following post on how new releases...
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Hey remember when a bunch of people who had no idea what they were talking about promoted a nonsense idea about some kind of "indiepocalypse"?

Where did that idea even come from anyway?

What a dangerous, misinformed, and given how history has played out, deeply suspicious notion that was.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,584
Seattle, WA
We at Ars got this info ahead of time and picked through what Valve did and did *not* disclose. Our analysis in full, courtesy of Kyle Orland:

arstechnica.com

Ars analysis: ~80% of Steam games earn under $5K in first two weeks

Valve offers a peek behind the sales curtain, telling an incomplete and mixed story.

Valve's selective view of the data leaves out a huge mass of games that make less than $5,000 in their first two weeks on Steam's virtual shelves. An Ars analysis finds those titles have made up the vast majority of Steam releases for the last five years.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,085
Pakistan
Give us the sale numbers you fucking cowards! These graphs fucking bore me and don't get into the nitty and gritty how each new and hot games ACTUALLY perform on steam which people here are mostly interested in.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Give us the sale numbers you fucking cowards! These graphs fucking bore me and don't get into the nitty and gritty how each new and hot games ACTUALLY perform on steam which people here are mostly interested in.
They likely do not have permission from the developers and publishers to release that data.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
We at Ars got this info ahead of time and picked through what Valve did and did *not* disclose. Our analysis in full, courtesy of Kyle Orland:

arstechnica.com

Ars analysis: ~80% of Steam games earn under $5K in first two weeks

Valve offers a peek behind the sales curtain, telling an incomplete and mixed story.

Worth noting though is what those games actually look like. There are a ton of games that look like one person made it in a couple of hours batons out on steam. That doesn't contribute a meaningful data point to the conversation.

Just browsing through the completely unfiltered list of new releases, there is a lot of stuff that uses default unity assets and stuff like that.

store.steampowered.com

Feed The Horsebear on Steam

Two snowmen jump with a potato plate from a platform to another. The snowmen have to take potatoes to horsebear.

I don't mean any ill will towards these games, I hope the developers get an audience, but most people likely aren't aware of the nature of the hundreds of games releasing monthly and saying 80% of releases don't even make $5000 is potentially misleading without mentioning the potential appeal and price point of games.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,085
Pakistan
They likely do not have permission from the developers and publishers to release that data.
I still remember a few years ago they said that they'll have a similar tool akin to steam spy, release and yet they never did that all these years later. I really think and believe that the GDPR update's other purpose was to fuck up steam spy's accuracy and making all the profile settings private.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Worth noting though is what those games actually look like. There are a ton of games that look like one person made it in a couple of hours batons out on steam. That doesn't contribute a meaningful data point to the conversation.
There are also games that are not well marketed or just don't have any mass market appeal. Prior to greenlight and Steam direct, these types of games were just not allowed on Steam, they still existed.
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
It looks like the revisions in Steam's recommendation algorithms in the past year have been broadly successful in spreading the wealth better for new releases. I did always think the "indiepocalypse" narrative was dubious, since it was based pretty much entirely on indie developers seeing Steam as a silver bullet, and then finding out that "game not available on Steam" wasn't the sole reason why their games failed commercially, and so they sought out alternative explainations why (with everyone generally converging on "the algorithm is burying my game", hence the last year of algorithm tweaks).
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,584
Seattle, WA
Worth noting though is what those games actually look like. There are a ton of games that look like one person made it in a couple of hours batons out on steam. That doesn't contribute a meaningful data point to the conversation.

Absolutely. And Valve doesn't meaningfully distinguish those, which makes it tough for anyone else picking through the data to do the same. We may do a follow-up piece about how products like shovelware and trading card bait do or don't figure into their "official" stats dump.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
Absolutely. And Valve doesn't meaningfully distinguish those, which makes it tough for anyone else picking through the data to do the same. We may do a follow-up piece about how products like shovelware and trading card bait do or don't figure into their "official" stats dump.
Wouldnt trading card bait be already over since the introduction of limitations of games that can have trading cards? (which I assume include a minimum "earnings" barrier)
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,572
Give us the sale numbers you fucking cowards! These graphs fucking bore me and don't get into the nitty and gritty how each new and hot games ACTUALLY perform on steam which people here are mostly interested in.

Since last year i think developers and publishers are free to release numbers. Valve doesn't have that permission.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
Hey remember when a bunch of people who had no idea what they were talking about promoted a nonsense idea about some kind of "indiepocalypse"?

Where did that idea even come from anyway?

What a dangerous, misinformed, and given how history has played out, deeply suspicious notion that was.

If the idea was that indies would take over, that's silly.
If the idea was that indies would progressively shed as their games didn't sell. Then that's true. Happens all the time when people give up on their dreams.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
If the idea was that indies would take over, that's silly.
If the idea was that indies would progressively shed as their games didn't sell. Then that's true. Happens all the time when people give up on their dreams.
The idea was that steam is flooded and indie devs can't find success on Steam any more.

There are more indie devs finding success on Steam than ever before.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
The idea was that steam is flooded and indie devs can't find success on Steam any more.

There are more indie devs finding success on Steam than ever before.

Well, there are a lot more games on Steam. So that's good for the indies that find that success but that also does mean that some are drowned out, and perhaps in greater number just given the volume. Good, even great games that no one has even heard of sell next to nothing. And yeah, some of those devs just give up and focus full time on paid work in their main field :/
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Well, there are a lot more games on Steam. So that's good for the indies that find that success but that also does mean that some are drowned out, and perhaps in greater number just given the volume. Good, even great games that no one has even heard of sell next to nothing. And yeah, some of those devs just give up and focus full time on paid work in their main field :/
Whereas in the past these games would have just been rejected from Steam entirely. Which was obviously a worse outcome than at least having a chance.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,572
Well, there are a lot more games on Steam. So that's good for the indies that find that success but that also does mean that some are drowned out, and perhaps in greater number just given the volume. Good, even great games that no one has even heard of sell next to nothing. And yeah, some of those devs just give up and focus full time on paid work in their main field :/

Maybe samred can ask some indie developers who released game exclusively on Epic Store how they did (excluding Epics money, just sales). After all Epic was really loud about Epis Store being better for indie devs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
Maybe samred can ask some indie developers who released game exclusively on Epic Store how they did (excluding Epics money, just sales). After all Epic was really loud about Epis Store being better for indie devs.

Yeah I'd be curious to hear about that too as well as Switch. Slightly related, from what I've been told, Nintendo Switch has been feast for famine. That storefront is a fucking nightmare and they just don't have a good curation process. I guess Wii U was actually pretty good given how limited and content stared the audience was.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
I still remember a few years ago they said that they'll have a similar tool akin to steam spy, release and yet they never did that all these years later. I really think and believe that the GDPR update's other purpose was to fuck up steam spy's accuracy and making all the profile settings private.
SteamSpy is run by a guy working for Epic so it's kinda understandable
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Hey remember when a bunch of people who had no idea what they were talking about promoted a nonsense idea about some kind of "indiepocalypse"?

Where did that idea even come from anyway?

What a dangerous, misinformed, and given how history has played out, deeply suspicious notion that was.

@samred's comment seems to come to a different conclusion. What's your take on that?
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
Yeah I'd be curious to hear about that too as well as Switch. Slightly related, from what I've been told, Nintendo Switch has been feast for famine. That storefront is a fucking nightmare and they just don't have a good curation process. I guess Wii U was actually pretty good given how limited and content stared the audience was.
Switch had the usual gold-rush that happens once a new console launchs and the library is bare and the hardcore audience (the most likely to buy a console at launch) wants to play with their new tool. That also happened with PS4 and XBOne. The main thing is that once the library starts to fill up, the competition is much harsher and sales decrease a fuck ton.
The eShop is somewhat the worse shop of all the main ones on discoverability too lmao.

Only repeating was I was told but it was a prolonged and confusing system that also added stigma to greenlight games. Once again, just saying what I heard from a number of devs.
Eh, there was no "greenlight mark" once the game launched on Steam. The main problem was that it transformed getting into the store into a popularity contest which was stupid. that was the main complain from devs (aka, making it somewhat more annoying to get into Steam).
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,572
Yeah I'd be curious to hear about that too as well as Switch. Slightly related, from what I've been told, Nintendo Switch has been feast for famine. That storefront is a fucking nightmare and they just don't have a good curation process. I guess Wii U was actually pretty good given how limited and content stared the audience was.

There was article about that last year i think, developers are actually selling games for pennies just to get visibility. it is fact that Steam is most advanced digital store to this date and that includes discoverability.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Only repeating was I was told but it was a prolonged and confusing system that also added stigma to greenlight games. Once again, just saying what I heard from a number of devs.
Certainly a handful of developers who were benefiting from the preexisting system that excluded many devs wanted to pull the ladder up behind them. That doesn't give an accurate impression of entire market as a whole. Try asking some developers who were excluded from Steam previously, but are now making a living from selling their games on Steam.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,085
Pakistan
Just because he hadn't announced it doesn't mean Valve didn't know about it.
But that's pure speculation on my part, nothing substantial
But lets be fucking honest.. valve doesn't care about EGS or trying to take action against devs or pubs who release games on steam or publish store pages only to not release their games on steam but a whole year later by making it exclusive to EGS.

They're literally sitting on their asses with the whole EGS thing and let it pass through which really gives me the impression that they just... don't care.
 

Gush

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,096
Well, there are a lot more games on Steam. So that's good for the indies that find that success but that also does mean that some are drowned out, and perhaps in greater number just given the volume. Good, even great games that no one has even heard of sell next to nothing. And yeah, some of those devs just give up and focus full time on paid work in their main field :/

While that's unfortunately a side-effect of the sheer volume of releases on steam, it's hard to think of an alternative that would be more beneficial to indie games at large. Curated storefronts, for instance, can be beneficial if you get the golden ticket but all those who don't are left in the cold due to their binary nature.

I think overall Valve has made the right decisions when it comes to this stuff, and I think the "Indiepocalypse" was always a misunderstanding. Indies were never dying, the wider pool of releases simply redistributed the revenue across a wider pool of developers. The main group hollering about it were those who found big success among smaller competition and couldn't see the forest for the trees when competition got bigger and broader.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
Eh, there was no "greenlight mark" once the game launched on Steam. The main problem was that it transformed getting into the store into a popularity contest which was stupid. that was the main complain from devs (aka, making it somewhat more annoying to get into Steam).

Bingo. And for some people it made it extremely easy to use their available networks to push through. For others they had to beg and beg and beg on social media. It was just awful.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,472
I'm honestly surprised that in general games are doing better.

Only because there's about what...5-10 games releasing daily on average? It's insane.

I mean, I'm happy for the devs! But it's still surprising.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,436
But lets be fucking honest.. valve doesn't care about EGS or trying to take action against devs or pubs who release games on steam or publish store pages only to not release their games on steam but a whole year later by making it exclusive to EGS.

They're literally sitting on their asses with the whole EGS thing and let it pass through which really gives me the impression that they just... don't care.
I suspect they did care about SteamSpy, since not only was it an underhanded move by a competitor to do market research, but I'd imagine it made a lot of developers uncomfortable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
But lets be fucking honest.. valve doesn't care about EGS or trying to take action against devs or pubs who release games on steam or publish store pages only to not release their games on steam but a whole year later by making it exclusive to EGS.

They're literally sitting on their asses with the whole EGS thing and let it pass through which really gives me the impression that they just... don't care.
EA just came back to Steam
Microsoft puts all their games on Steam
Whether that's because Valve is doing something, we don't know. They aren't punishing devs for skipping Steam because they just don't care enough. Metro not being on Steam means shit-all for Valve.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
Certainly a handful of developers who were benefiting from the preexisting system that excluded many devs wanted to pull the ladder up behind them. That doesn't give an accurate impression of entire market as a whole. Try asking some developers who were excluded from Steam previously, but are now making a living from selling their games on Steam.

I believe you may be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am not in any way defending the old greenlight system. It sucked balls and many developers had their careers brought full stop because they didn't get in. Greenlight ruined careers. Thankfully Itch was around for the others.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,674
USA USA USA
even though greenlight was awful it was still better than what was before it

just like direct has issues, but its still better than greenlight

and keep in mind what part of this most of their competitors are still at
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,572
But lets be fucking honest.. valve doesn't care about EGS or trying to take action against devs or pubs who release games on steam or publish store pages only to not release their games on steam but a whole year later by making it exclusive to EGS.

They're literally sitting on their asses with the whole EGS thing and let it pass through which really gives me the impression that they just... don't care.

Not really, read interview with Gabe from EDGE magazine. It caused them some headaches but they aare fine with competition and they are competing by doing other things because Valve will never start paying developers for exclusivity or similar things.

Steam main advantage are features. And i will point to you how Valve did nothing in past month or so and ended up in news almost every single week. They did that by just having one simple feature, Concurrent Users and Players counter.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
EA just came back to Steam
Microsoft puts all their games on Steam
Whether that's because Valve is doing something, we don't know. They aren't punishing devs for skipping Steam because they just don't care enough. Metro not being on Steam means shit-all for Valve.
and games are not really selling very well on EGS anyway
playtracker.net

Here's how much the biggest Epic Store exclusives of 2019 sold - PlayTracker Insight

Sales estimates for the top Epic Store games, using data from the XBOX API and figures disclosed by Epic and publishers

Titles like Hades sold more units on Steam in one month than they did in one year of EGS exclusivity.


I believe you may be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am not in any way defending the old greenlight system. It sucked balls and many developers had their careers brought full stop because they didn't get in. Greenlight ruined careers. Thankfully Itch was around for the others.
I understand what you are saying, I am disagreeing with you. There's no evidence that greenlight, a change that was a massive shift towards democratising distribution, destroyed careers. It did the exact opposite.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,584
Seattle, WA
Maybe samred can ask some indie developers who released game exclusively on Epic Store how they did (excluding Epics money, just sales). After all Epic was really loud about Epis Store being better for indie devs.

My DMs are open here and elsewhere. Go to samred on Twitter to find my Telegram contact info, as well. Devs don't necessarily love disclosing their sales figures, even privately, but we'll take whatever data game makers want to offer for the sake of more market transparency in our reports. Thanks.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,085
Pakistan
EA just came back to Steam
Microsoft puts all their games on Steam
Whether that's because Valve is doing something, we don't know. They aren't punishing devs for skipping Steam because they just don't care enough. Metro not being on Steam means shit-all for Valve.
Thats not the point. The point is.. they're not punishing devs/pubs for circumventing the ToS or even violating it.

The actual truth is.. they're in bed with the pubs and will take action when most of em bitch to them and start taking out features from steam. Region locking is one such thing they enforced.

They really don't force the issue until their hand is forced itself by the courts lol like the introduction of refunds for example.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
Bingo. And for some people it made it extremely easy to use their available networks to push through. For others they had to beg and beg and beg on social media. It was just awful.

From other post
I believe you may be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am not in any way defending the old greenlight system. It sucked balls and many developers had their careers brought full stop because they didn't get in. Greenlight ruined careers. Thankfully Itch was around for the others.
I think it was better than what was before, but the popularity contest was bad. Direct is better in all ways (although it needs some better control of some content). Also, it is hard to ruin careers when they wouldnt have gotten into Steam before (hence, Greenlight expanding the amount of games that could get in). Also, Desura was there too at the time...

Not really, read interview with Gabe from EDGE magazine. It caused them some headaches but they aare fine with competition and they are competing by doing other things because Valve will never start paying developers for exclusivity or similar things.

Steam main advantage are features. And i will point to you how Valve did nothing in past month or so and ended up in news almost every single week. They did that by just having one simple feature, Concurrent Users and Players counter.
The headache was mostly related to Epic attacking them. Otherwise it was more about "Kay".
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
I think overall Valve has made the right decisions when it comes to this stuff, and I think the "Indiepocalypse" was always a misunderstanding. Indies were never dying, the wider pool of releases simply redistributed the revenue across a wider pool of developers. The main group hollering about it were those who found big success among smaller competition and couldn't see the forest for the trees when competition got bigger and broader.

Yeah I really think there needs to be a clear distinction in what the problems are. Greenlight was always questionable and bad. But opening the floodgates created new problems. Personally, I prefer the way it is now because it actually gives more games a chance. But in terms of discoverability, it's still fucked.