• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,357
Austria
I'm trying to understand what exactly people are annoyed about. So far nobody has said, 'this and this is missing and it sucks.'

Just because I'm disagreeing with you I get a sarcastic reply? Why can't you just tell me in a quick few points? I don't feel I've antagonised anyone here :/
Sorry :(
All the information is out there and I think even in this thread. People are just tired repeating it nonstop. There are far more problems to the whole EGS thing than just the launcher too. Like the exclusivity deal and how they are handled. How Tim Sweeney is often a very hypocritical person flip-flopping his arguments to whatever helps harming Valve (and only Valve...) It's a long list.

What Valve does or not is irrelevant to my point.
Your point was about Valve and Steam, how is it nor relevant.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
If epic wanted to be just as petty they would call him on his bluff and not only offer it on EGS, but offer it for free. It's for charity right?
Offering it for free would cut into their sales on other sites, even if Epic give millions to a charity in the dev's name for the free game slot. It would also screw over other stores with the game since it's fairly new, that's if other stores expect the game to generate money for them also.

The free games are usually pretty old and have slowed down in sales, like PS+, or Xbox's game pass thing for games that aren't Microsoft.
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
Then tell me why a lot of games on steam are steam exclusive? I cant until seem to think of any other reason.

To be honest, i have no desire to even talk with a person that has NO KNOWLEDGE about the history of PC gaming whatsover, so before you start running your mouth fuzzy about how steam had no competition, here's an incomplete list of decade old launcher/stores you could read up on first.

Steam
Direct2Drive
GamersGate
EA Store
GFWL
GoodOldGames
Impulse
GreenManGaming
Battle.net 2.0
Desura

And for those wondering, GreenManGaming and GamersGate indeed used to have their own launcher.

The missing features just don't seem strong enough to get angered over someone tying down to exclusivity. There's nothing that's integral to how I play games that's missing. I'm not trolling or saying that epic are amazing or anything. I just don't get why the reaction is so strong.

You do you, but maybe there is something up with those feature if even Epics own leading employees implicitly admitet that they would'nt have considered buying a game

Sergey Galyonkin: "I would never buy a videogame without cloud saves!"
*launches store without cloud saves*

544211052745981962.png
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,906
Is it as sad and embarrassing as putting someone on the spot in public saying charities only get money if they cave to you
Like putting someone into a spot telling them you'll only sell their game if they cave to you?

Your constant trolling used to be funnier.
 

MajesticSoup

Banned
Feb 22, 2019
1,935
I love how people like to ignore important facts like giving your game away free near launch (even if it the money is going to charity) devalues it in the eyes of consumers. There was a reason a lot of devs were freaking out over the discounts during the EGS sale (some even removing their games from the store entirely until it was over).
You're right they wouldn't do it. Which would prove what a whole lot of nothing their offer to charity was.
Cant touch those steam sales.
 

Ananasas

Member
Jul 11, 2018
1,740
To be honest, i have no desire to even talk with a person that has NO KNOWLEDGE about the history of PC gaming whatsover, so before you start running your mouth fuzzy about how steam had no competition, here's an incomplete list of decade old launcher/stores you could read up on first.

Steam
Direct2Drive
GamersGate
EA Store
GFWL
GoodOldGames
Impulse
GreenManGaming
Battle.net 2.0
Desura

And for those wondering, GreenManGaming and GamersGate indeed used to have their own launcher.



You do you, but maybe there is something up with those feature if even Epics own leading employees implicitly admitet that they would'nt have considered buying a game
Well I only play pc games for 15 years so maybe I don't know shit what I am talking thx for pointing it out.
 

Dogenzaka

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 20, 2019
803
Whoever does the marketing for Unfold Games should get a raise. This Epic Games beef they have has surely done well for getting their game's name out there.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,298
People complaining about the developer using charity for advertising must hate game show celebrity specials.

(I do too, because they're actively exploitative of specific charities instead of only somewhat exploitative of some undefined concept of 'charity')
 

MajesticSoup

Banned
Feb 22, 2019
1,935
Offering it for free would cut into their sales on other sites, even if Epic give millions to a charity in the dev's name for the free game slot. It would also screw over other stores with the game since it's fairly new, that's if other stores expect the game to generate money for them also.

The free games are usually pretty old and have slowed down in sales, like PS+, or Xbox's game pass thing for games that aren't Microsoft.
That was kind of the point. Call them on their bluff.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
Whoever does the marketing for Unfold Games should get a raise. This Epic Games beef they have has surely done well for getting their game's name out there.
It's one guy I believe, He's doing a great job with it.
Well I only play pc games for 15 years so maybe I don't know shit what I am talking thx for pointing it out.
I'm glad you admit it, now read some of the other posts and start learning for next time you will know more.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,646
I'm trying to understand what exactly people are annoyed about. So far nobody has said, 'this and this is missing and it sucks.'

Just because I'm disagreeing with you I get a sarcastic reply? Why can't you just tell me in a quick few points? I don't feel I've antagonised anyone here :/
because honestly, everyone is pretty sick of listing these out ad nauseam, the keyword I was pointing out was "I" in your last post. Shit that doesn't matter to you can certainly be a big deal to others.

Such as:
Guaranteed DRM Free (GOG)
Universal Controller Support (This one is huge to me, after years of fucking with DS4Windows, SCPToolkit, or that shady DS3 app I forgot the name that turned into malware after a few updates. With Steam I no longer have to care at all about it, just boot game and shit works)
Communities (Steam certainly has an issue with hateful communities, but having a directly accessible forum for every game has been absurdly helpful for especially japanese games with bad ports. Most recently kill la kill If. It'll crash out if you try and run it with laptop with multiple GPUs. 2 seconds to find my answer of forcing the dedicated GPUs thanks to communities)
Achievements (For some reason people like these)
Big Picture Mode (Steam, It can be wonky, but I use it all the time and love it when gaming on my TV instead of at my desk)

There are loads more features that people care about, but im not going to keep going, because the real reason people care so much is that Epic is throwing money at removing options while providing 0 benefit back to the consumer. This is the real crux of everyone's issue. We get nothing out of epic's deals. Even if their store was up to par we've still gained nothing from the things they are doing. Lose choice, gain nothing.
 

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
18,008
I'm trying to understand what exactly people are annoyed about. So far nobody has said, 'this and this is missing and it sucks.'

Just because I'm disagreeing with you I get a sarcastic reply? Why can't you just tell me in a quick few points? I don't feel I've antagonised anyone here :/
Oh, but it's been said. Many times. In the respective EGS topics. People tend to get tired of repeating themselves.

However, for the sake of argument, my personal gripes are lack of support for regional currency (CAD)-- making the games overpriced; lack of features like user forums (because I'm not interested in using 3rd party sites like Discord or Reddit for technical support) and achievement (more minor annoyance, but still feels dumb not to have them, when all competing versions of the game do);

And, most importantly, lack of pricing competition via key resellers. Steam ecosystem includes multiple competing stores like GMG, Fanatical and Humble that bend over backwards to give me best prices on games. EGS does their best to clamp down on this. Keeping prices universally high is the sign of the very "monopoly" Sweeney claims to be fighting against.
 

Evaansan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
111
What is your point, then? Serious question. I'm not sure if you understand that no one cares about exclusivity of 1st-party games, or exclusivity that isn't enforced by the 1st party.
So you don't have a point then. Valve aren't stopping those games being anywhere else. Take it up with their publisher.

My point is that there are indeed games exclusive to Steam. I don't care about the war between the Steam and EGS store, i don't buy my games from either of them.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
301
You're right they wouldn't do it. Which would prove what a whole lot of nothing their offer to charity was.
Cant touch those steam sales.

So...you're basically saying that unless someone is willing to put themselves in the poorhouse for charity, they shouldn't even consider using charity for PR. Got it!

I just love the spin on this. No matter what this developer says or does, he's an automatic scumbag because he's not towing the line when it comes to Epic.
 

BayonettasBuddy

Lead Producer at Cold Symmetry
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
233
Loads of replies here. Genuinely was asking. For me regional pricing and keys seem huge. I get that maybe some of the other features aren't as important to me as they are to others. Sorry for derailing the thread. 😁
 

MajesticSoup

Banned
Feb 22, 2019
1,935
So...you're basically saying that unless someone is willing to put themselves in the poorhouse for charity, they shouldn't even consider using charity for PR. Got it!

I just love the spin on this. No matter what this developer says or does, he's an automatic scumbag because he's not towing the line when it comes to Epic.
Its already been said in this thread that the developer would not lose much since they expect nearly all of their sales from Steam. If they wanted to donate to charity, offer up steam sales. Empty gestures need to be called out.
If epic wants to be equally petty, they can offer the game for free. The developer wont of course, for obvious reasons.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
301
Its already been said in this thread that the developer would not lose much since they expect most of the sales from Steam. If they wanted to donate to charity, offer up steam sales. Empty gestures need to be called out.
If epic wants to be equally petty, they can offer the game for free. The developer wont of course, for obvious reasons.

And for reasons that are wholly understandable and nobody should hold against him. I just never thought it possible that a little indie dev giving a billionaire a bit of sass would be considered punching down, but here we are...
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
Its already been said in this thread that the developer would not lose much since they expect nearly all of their sales from Steam. If they wanted to donate to charity, offer up steam sales. Empty gestures need to be called out.
If epic wants to be equally petty, they can offer the game for free. The developer wont of course, for obvious reasons.

Ok, let's take this one step at a time. The developer offered donating to charity as an incentive for Epic to stop its anti-developer policy of only accepting games that are exclusive to EGS. In the hypothetical scenario that Epic takes up the developer on his offer, the only person with the authority to set the game's price would be the developer. Epic would not be able to distribute the game for free unless the developer agreed to it.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
And for reasons that are wholly understandable and nobody should hold against him. I just never thought it possible that a little indie dev giving a billionaire a bit of sass would be considered punching down, but here we are...

Some people seem to support contradictory views than they profess in many other situations when it comes to Tim Sweeney and EGS's practices. It's curious really.... very curious.
 

ramoisdead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,583
My point is that there are indeed games exclusive to Steam. I don't care about the war between the Steam and EGS store, i don't buy my games from either of them.

So you don't shop at any of those stores...so why are you persisting on something you don't know about when other users who have shopped on Steam and quite possibly shopped on EGS so they have the experience are saying how things operate??
 
Jun 7, 2018
1,505
This is what we've been told on that subject.

There should not be such a crippling limitation, and it's the sort of thing that I would dismiss as ridiculous if it didn't come from such a direct source.

Thanks for that. Even with such a direct source I'm close to dismissing it as ridiculous. If the process is manual, I can get there are certain limitations, but if it is only one at a time, then surely they can afford the 3 or 4 full-time employees it would take to have someone putting games up manually 24/7.

I mean, even then it sounds ridiculous... What exactly is it that takes the time?!
Please, please don't let it be uploading, I don't think I could cope with something making that little sense!
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
Valve had 10years+ start and there was no competition, thats the only reason it sits at the top of all stores and the only reason most games are exclusive to steam.
Not like epic themselves left pc gaming because .....piracy. Its not like Microsoft has been floundering in the pc market for decades.
Yes, and to me all of this anger and rage still seems rather pointless. It shouldn't be that much of a big deal to gamers that we go into death threats territory, but here we are.

Gamers suffer a slight inconvenience and devs can develop their games without worrying whether they are able pay their bills once the game is done.

It's hard to empathize with the anti-egs crowd.
Again your generalizing here. The vast majority of pc era including Devs have been trying to explain why the success of
a company employing monopolistic strategies could and should be cause for concern . Especially if said company isn't providing an overall positive effect for Indies but is simply ensuring that games that were going to find success are even more successful. especially if said store is years behind in terms of features and service.

Let me make this absolutely clear, there is no law which says every developer is entitled to customers money. And no store is entitled to customers because it provides a heavily caveated service which may or may not save the pc games scene because the CEO claims so. Developers can accept money from epic and I can respect that, but when they break prior commitments verbal or otherwise or join a store which is persived as a threat to the structure and model of the pc market place to replace it with a pseudo console esq third party exsclusivity mad dash then customers are again within their rights to voice concern and even to push back on such practices.

This is why it's always frustrating when console gamers constantly come in and go" I don't get it, why are you guys so salty" why it's so frustrating to be disingenuously included with gamers who'll happily harrass and send threats to developers when given the slightest excuse.
 

Evaansan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
111
So you don't shop at any of those stores...so why are you persisting on something you don't know about when other users who have shopped on Steam and quite possibly shopped on EGS so they have the experience are saying how things operate??

When have i ever talked about how they lead their business ? I was just responding to someone implying there weren't any exclusives on Steam.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Not every developer can do this. They would need to be without obligations that would make the epic offer too good (financially irresponsible) to refuse. And they would need some big cojones.

But damn, you come out with gobs of great PR and your dignity lol. Also, being able to keep your word to your customers. The older set might remember when that used to mean something.

Aside from that, it's fascinating what a hit that egs good guy narrative takes when one one little public figure stands up to it. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that once epic comes up with a reply to this, you'll have some influential voices clamping away at their keyboards to boost it. If epic ignores it, they'll have to settle for "indie dev invokes charity, hates charity." Keep in mind, we already tried "criticizing epic is tantamount to harassment" so obviously, we're going hard for epic.
 

voOsh

Member
Apr 5, 2018
1,665
Valve had 10years+ start and there was no competition, thats the only reason it sits at the top of all stores and the only reason most games are exclusive to steam.

Absolutely false. There have been dozens of competitors that have tried to take on Steam over the years. Steam has never once forced a game to be exclusive to Steam. Consumers CHOOSE to buy their games on Steam. Publishers CHOOSE to sell their games on Steam.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
México
Funny thing, this also goes for those upset about the developer's tweet, somehow trying to paint a gesture to donate money to charity as some evil scheme.

It's an empty gesture for publicity. There is nothing noble in it, and no one profits but the dev from the attention. If the dev donated to charity and carpet bombed the net with the news of his donation, well, at least in that case a charity got some needed funds.
 

BrutalInsane

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,080
But damn, you come out with gobs of great PR and your dignity lol. Also, being able to keep your word to your customers. The older set might remember when that used to mean something.

I had enough respect for the guy learning that he's a composer that went out on his own to learn coding and almost singlehandedly created the game himself. What he's doing now is just the cherry on top.

Fuck Epic.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
It's an empty gesture for publicity. There is nothing noble in it, and no one profits but the dev from the attention. If the dev donated to charity and carpet bombed the net with the news of his donation, well, at least in that case a charity got some needed funds.
It's an empty gesture which if accepted could potentially result in a charity getting more money. The developer gets to reach a new audience and Epic get to contribute to both a developer and a charity as insentive. And if not, it shows Epics hypocritical position in wanting Indies to succeed only if it suits them. I'm not fussed where money comes from or why it's there when it comes to charities so yea this may well be a pr move but...... So what?

Not to mention that what makes this especially funny is that Tim once offered valve a similar gotcha option and I think the Dev is playing on that.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,582
Devs being essentially forced to take a lower cut than necessary.
Yeah, I don't think there's a universal cut that is simply ideal for everyone. Generally, I don't have an opinion one way or the other since it shouldn't have an impact on me as a consumer, but the only thing I can say with certainty is that it's a two-way street; the developer's cut is just as important and serves as an incentive to make the best game possible, while the store's cut serves as an incentive to make the platform appealing to both consumers and developers. If you remove that incentive you'll undoubtedly end up with a less desirable platform, which ultimately affects consumers and developers alike.

Historically, I think Valve has shown that they do a lot with the cut they're working with, since we've seen improvements on a regular basis. I mean, do you think we would see things such as Steam Proton, Steam Input, Steam Forums, trading or just general improvements to Steam Reviews to accommodate for review bombing and such if Valve took 12%? Because the funny thing is, the one store that takes 12% has no plans for any of that. They've even stated as much that community forums or reviews won't happen, and there's no indication of any significant features being ready for launch anytime soon. It's not very convincing if their idea is to show the world how feasible a 12% cut is.

The Trump comparison stuff and attempting to demonize Sweeney is fairly disconcerting to me to be honest

We don't need to race to those kind of extremes to make our points, you don't have to immediately compare this situation to a racist President
I think this originated from a few months back, when Tim openly congratulated THQ Nordic on their recent success not long after the 8chan controversy. And I gotta say, being that tone-deaf certainly reeks of the same level of narcissism; but I do agree that it's for the best to criticize Tim's statements on their own merits instead.
 
Last edited:

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
México
It's an empty gesture which if accepted could potentially result in a charity getting more money. The developer gets to reach a new audience and Epic get to contribute to both a developer and a charity as insentive. And if not, it shows Epics hypocritical position in wanting Indies to succeed only if it suits them. I'm not fussed where money comes from or why it's there when it comes to charities so yea this may well be a pr move but...... So what?

So you agree that he is weaponizing charity? As you said if Epic does not agree, they get burned publicly.

If charity was his priority, he would negotiate this directly instead of publicly. Or he could donate a % from what he makes on Steam and skip the spectacle.

Edit: It's so cheap to be able to say "well I wanted to donate to charity, but Epic did not accept, so I wont".
 
Jun 25, 2019
58
It's an empty gesture for publicity. There is nothing noble in it, and no one profits but the dev from the attention. If the dev donated to charity and carpet bombed the net with the news of his donation, well, at least in that case a charity got some needed funds.
Nobody profits from money donated to charity? (possibly subtantial amounts too) what?
Do EGS defenders have to sink this low to defend good ol Tim?
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
I dont want you on my store if you go on steam, blegh. How petty does that sound? Like a 4 year old type of thing
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
So you agree that he is weaponizing charity? As you said if Epic does not agree, they get burned publicly.

If charity was his priority, he would negotiate this directly instead of publicly. Or he could donate a % from what he makes on Steam and skip the spectacle.
Yes its weaponized, similarly to how Epic publicly weaponizes the success and fragility of indies to further their position as saviours of pc gaming.

A public display like this may be distasteful to some but inorder to address Epic's hypocrisy it was absolutely necessary.As I've alluded to the charity was never his priority but if it does end up getting money because of it.....so what? Unless you want to argue that because his intentions weren't pure, any revenue generated and shared is null and void?
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
México
Yes its weaponized, similarly to how Epic publicly weaponizes the success and fragility of indies to further their position as saviours of pc gaming.

A public display like this may be distasteful to some but inorder to address Epic's hypocrisy it was absolutely necessary.As I've alluded to the charity was never his priority but if it does end up getting money because of it.....so what? Unless you want to argue that because his intentions werent pure his any revinue generated and shared is null and void?


You know there is a difference between offering devs a good deal and weaponizing charity. Don't pretend it's the same. But I guess if it's about hurting Epic, anything goes, right?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.