when a child can't play Mario Kart 8 without the accessibility options, we should tell them it's not for them
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Dark Souls games should have an easy mode
- Thread starter Kainé
- Start date
Yeah, but a lot of people are still unsure about trying out these games and free demos would give potential new Souls lovers the chance to finally give them a spin.
An easy mode won't fix that. Neither will getting your friend or strangers to beat the game for you. "Git gud" might sound dismissive, but at least there's faith in that statement that one actually can do better — unlike the defeatist position requiring the developers to alter the game around your ineptitude. There are seven years worth of resources available on Dark Souls 1; just a cursory glance at them would've revealed a way to get past the Hellkite Dragon and taught you to look for alternate routes when faced with (seemingly) impossible-to-overcome obstacles, already making you a better player.
I'm cool with an easy mode, as long as it is entirely separate and doesn't impact how it normally plays.
Honestly an easy mode would probably just be reducing damage to the player and increasing damage to the game's enemies.
Honestly an easy mode would probably just be reducing damage to the player and increasing damage to the game's enemies.
I wouldn't like an easy mode but i'd gladly take a "no bullshit" mode. Dark souls is full of it.
Its not about whether or not people with disabilities exist or not, its that more often than not theyre disingenuous arguments people hide behind because theyre own is weak. more often than not. The unfortunate reality of having a disability is that sometimes there will be things youre just not able to do and thats something youll have to come to terms with. While I am not disabled, my older brother is, he has MS and can barely walk straight or see anything more than 3-4 feet away, or hold things steady. There's a lot hes not able to do and while it sucks that's life. Im not going to demand that all things should exist to cater to his special condition, he's just going to have to find other things that he can do.
The movie comparison is a false equivalency. You can watch a movie and dislike it's execution, but nothing will actually prevent you from watching it. You cannot do this with these games. Nobody is here questioning the narrative or world design, My post got a bit lost in a previous page, but it sums up what I'm talking about:
The games are popular for their difficulty. And making an easy mode would ruin that. What's worse of all is the games are not even that difficult. If you struggle it's because you refuse to even try to learn.
Unless easy mode in Dark Souls means turn based mode, i don't think it would help this case at all.
I can't see how easy mode can happen disabled players in any case tbh.
I'm okay with an "easy mode" option, but I think the player needs to suffer through at least 20 hours before it unlocks. >:)
There are people who are not "lazy" and have other reasons for not being able to play a game
Yeah save any where any time makes game very easy compared to other games where you have to spend 1 hour fighting enemies just to get to a 'safe room'.
This is something I posted back at the old place on a thread where someone wanted an option to skip bosses on every game. I think it still applies here:
A big chunk of the appeal to me in souls games is the inescapable sense of low pressure there is only move forward or stop playing and because of that I feel like I'm being challenged. In addition I never felt the challenge was unreasonable it's tuned in a way where I feel like as long as one is willing to learn one can slowly make satisfying progress. I feel bad to be against this but I feel like there is a ton of choice for gamers that enjoy non challenging experiences while I feel like there would be few left that feel like souls games. The alternative is probably me skipping on the game.
If I think back a similar experience of how easy modes aren't bad and wouldn't change the experience and me not feeling that to be true at all is WoW.
It started in BC and once WotLK hit the whole different difficulties of dungeons were the norm the whole world felt less interesting to me, it's very subjective though.
If I think back a similar experience of how easy modes aren't bad and wouldn't change the experience and me not feeling that to be true at all is WoW.
It started in BC and once WotLK hit the whole different difficulties of dungeons were the norm the whole world felt less interesting to me, it's very subjective though.
That's probably how it would be, but some people don't like having options, I don't want to have an option of an easy way out of something
Just don't play a mage build and you have a no bullshit mode.
lol, just summon help. You don't need an easy mode because help is already coded into the game.
Absolutely! I'm not against the idea of a demo for people not sure if they'd like the games or not, I just don't think that threads like these will disappear if it happens.
Way to dismiss every argument made in this thread that has nothing to do with "e-peen"
Well, that's a problem. As long as it doesn't hurt others, I don't think that there is anything wrong with offering more accessibility options for everyone. Look, I'm not advocating for an entire redesign of the game, which is why I defend the idea of putting a console or a few sliders instead.
Sure.
When I say lazy people i mean the people that are actually lazy and don't want to spend time learning a game.
Garbage post.
There are movies though that require you to be familiar with certain things for you to even begin appreciating them.
Like for example Battleship Potemkin, it's probably going to be a very strange experience watching for a lot of people that can't put it into the right context of where movies were at that time as well as the narrative background it is based on.
Basically my point here I don't think there exist and obligation to create only things that can be appreciated without any effort of the consumer. I think there is strong value in making all kinds of different things even things that challenge a consumer to become a little more active and read up/learn things etc.
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Thank you for your useless hot take and complete lack of reading this thread.
I'm not part of the "git good" crowd. I mean, it makes sense in certain contexts, but not this one. That said, I vehemently disagree with this. It's exclusive difficulty is what makes it what it is. Torturing yourself to get better and better to be able to play these games is part of the experience. I must have spent YEARS playing Dark Souls. It was punishing. But I finally did it. I finally finished it. Now playing Souls games is still a rewarding experience, that I'm able to play with. But Dark Souls also did a lot more for me than simply torturing myself with it
-it made me less ragey a gamer
-more patient with games
-opened up new perspective for other genres of games.
I think for some, they just need to admit that it's not the game for them. "But LZ! You can had many difficulties!" But then it wouldn't have the allure that it does. That wouldn't be fair to the franchise, nor the creators for the specific kind of game they want it to be.
-it made me less ragey a gamer
-more patient with games
-opened up new perspective for other genres of games.
I think for some, they just need to admit that it's not the game for them. "But LZ! You can had many difficulties!" But then it wouldn't have the allure that it does. That wouldn't be fair to the franchise, nor the creators for the specific kind of game they want it to be.
Okay, now let's flip that around.
Someone watches the movie with the gory scenes cut out. They're able to appreciate the cinematography, the acting, the directing in the non-gory scenes. Some of the context is missing, and they are aware of that, but they are still able to appreciate what they were able to see.
Reminds me of Saturday Night Fever. The film was originally released as a rated-R film, full of attempted rape, nudity, cursing, and homophobic/racist slurs. They later released an edited PG version so that more people would be able to experience the John Travolta dancing scenes.
That's up for the developers to decide. If they don't want to add it it's fine, they might want you to experience the game like they think it's meant to be played with the balance they consider it's most appropriate overall. It's also extra work, no matter how small it may be. You can also make the decision of not buying their game.
Personally I'm fine without one.
Personally I'm fine without one.
There are so many games out there that do lore, music and art direction better than the souls games. They also happen to be a lot easier to play as well. If that's what you look for in a game then it's not like you're starved for options.
You can already break the game with certain builds. It's not that difficult to put builds together that become so OP that they trivialise the game. You can also test different builds and play around with things by going back to the starting area after you've levelled up a couple of times.
So I guess that brings me to another point, these games already have "easy mode" in them, it's just up to the player to figure it out and manipulate the systems in their favour.
I think an easy mode could be a simple tweak of mechanics in some cases. I.e. in Bloodborne have blood vials automatically refill after you die instead of having to farm for them/start with a larger estus flask. Lower leveling requirements/weapon costs. Lock specific endings or areas to higher difficulty levels. There are plenty of ways to do it without really diluting what makes Souls games what they are in my opinion.
I don't think it should have an easy mode, but I do believe it could be done and wouldn't ruin the games.
What does rating have to do with telling someone a game isn't for them because they seem not be able to "git gud".
I didn't need to use Mario Kart to make the same point. Thankfully people in the thread are actually giving pointers and suggestions for improvement so one could enjoy and experience the game.
Alright then I'll use Rainbow Six siege(a game with a high skill ceiling, rated M for mature like that means something), newer players even in the casual modes struggle(especially due to matchmaking in casual pairing people indiscriminately in terms of skill). I could tell those players to go to COD or some other game just because they can't figure things out to perform better....or you know....instead of being condescending and dismissive I could try and help them out.
This doesn't need to be some elitists hardcore-only club and the amount of game communities that are like this for one reason or another is crazy.
I didn't need to use Mario Kart to make the same point. Thankfully people in the thread are actually giving pointers and suggestions for improvement so one could enjoy and experience the game.
Alright then I'll use Rainbow Six siege(a game with a high skill ceiling, rated M for mature like that means something), newer players even in the casual modes struggle(especially due to matchmaking in casual pairing people indiscriminately in terms of skill). I could tell those players to go to COD or some other game just because they can't figure things out to perform better....or you know....instead of being condescending and dismissive I could try and help them out.
This doesn't need to be some elitists hardcore-only club and the amount of game communities that are like this for one reason or another is crazy.
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I honestly think people would still have the same issues if they added an easy mode. You have a fuckton of invincibility frames on your rolls, the main combat mechanics are simple as hell, no complicated combos or in-depth cancelling of mechanics, DMC4 this is not. As long as you time your rolls and hit R1 when you have a window, you can beat anything. If you think the game is too hard, as in, the WHOLE game, and not just a particular boss you think should probably be nerfed in a patch or whatever, I fail to see how an easy mode could help. Maybe you can kill a regular enemy in one hit instead of two before upgrading your weapon a couple of times. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My dude. Did you miss my earlier response to you? I would like to hear your thoughts on what I said.
A key selling point of mario kart is that it is accessible to virtually everyone on some level. It always has been. It's one of the least punishing games out there. I don't really understand what you expected to make from the comparison. You might as well have said "Well, Shogi is far too complicated, why can't everyone play it well with little to no effort put in, like Tic-Tac-Toe?".
Ultimately, this, as always, seems to be like where you fall on the question "Does every games need to be playable by everyone to the same extent?".
I don't think they do , and there are such a huge amount of games nowadays that if you don't like what Dark souls does, there are a hundred other games you can play at any given moment that fit your taste better, without gutting dark souls to make it for everybody.
No, it doesn't because I enjoy it the first time around as explained, don't mean they shouldn't let you tweak it the other time around to change it up whichever way you like.
:)
Nah movies and game experiences are different ways of experiencing something. They are not one and the same.
I'm not talking about taking power away from anyone, I'm talking about giving power to the player to improve on the developers experience to their liking, if not the first time around unlock it after the first completion, suddenly you get benefit of both.
The answer is really simple, and it's not yours it's; Play on PC and just mod the game.
On this topic, I feel it's kinda like for RPGs between the more hardcore SaGa games that requires the player to engage into the systems and pay attentions and Final Fantasy which are more YOLO.
You can play FF games without engaging into any of the system and basically playing in the most braindead way, it won't be fun but you can do that.
In SaGa, if you play like that you'll die...permanently.
SaGa are much more fun games because the stakes are so much higher, sometimes things aren't for everyone and shouldn't be.
You can play FF games without engaging into any of the system and basically playing in the most braindead way, it won't be fun but you can do that.
In SaGa, if you play like that you'll die...permanently.
SaGa are much more fun games because the stakes are so much higher, sometimes things aren't for everyone and shouldn't be.
You'd be surprised...
I cannot see a way for Dark Souls to have an easy mode that would solve the "I don't know where to go" problem without them having to build up a bunch of systems they'd rather not have anyone use. Keep in mind that before it became a huge critical and popular hit, this game was just a modest sequel to cult hit on the PS3, from a developer that's done ok over the years but never had a really huge hit like Dark Souls became.
The easy mode for Dark Souls is to read a FAQ, and ask how to make a broken build. It's very easy to make an OP build in Dark Souls 1, and at this point it's extremely well documented game, so finding the optimal path, or even just hints at where to go is very easy.
It's fine to conclude "This game is not for me." It's fine to use a FAQ or to summon a lot of help. But an easy mode in Dark Souls 1 already exists. It's just an unconventional one.
Now, there's a good argument to be made that Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 may actually be tuned hard enough to make an easy mode necessary, especially with how they nerf magic builds, but Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 (and probably 2) are not difficult to beat if one looks up how to min/max their characters.
The easy mode for Dark Souls is to read a FAQ, and ask how to make a broken build. It's very easy to make an OP build in Dark Souls 1, and at this point it's extremely well documented game, so finding the optimal path, or even just hints at where to go is very easy.
It's fine to conclude "This game is not for me." It's fine to use a FAQ or to summon a lot of help. But an easy mode in Dark Souls 1 already exists. It's just an unconventional one.
Now, there's a good argument to be made that Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 may actually be tuned hard enough to make an easy mode necessary, especially with how they nerf magic builds, but Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 (and probably 2) are not difficult to beat if one looks up how to min/max their characters.
....really?
i mean, i get what you're trying to say, but cmon.
Those aren't an easy mode of Finnegans Wake at all. They are summaries of it. Reading the spark-notes of Finnegans Wake is not reading Finnegans Wake. This isn't complicated.
If the OP wishes he can also read summaries of all the souls games. But he seems to want to actually play the games themselves. That's something fundamentally different.
There are some in this thread, and as long as one side of the debate refuses to even acknowledge that the other side has anything to actually say it won't go anywhere.
There's a discussion to be had, but presuming that everyone who disagrees with you is not only wrong, but a mean idiot jerk isn't conducive to anything productive.
At which point I say: did you really want to watch the movie, or did you just want to watch John Travolta dancing? You can do that on Youtube.*
*I know Youtube wasn't around back then, but you know. Point still stands.
I dont see how. He used to skateboard and ride bikes, im not going to demand that all skateboards and bikes now autobalance so he doesnt fall over when he wants to ride them or move on command. Because its not realistic.
I dont think there is an issue with adding accesability, but when it comes to special needs, one persons needs may vary wildly from someone elses and when you try to accomodate everyone, then yeah some of the inherent design will have to change. Either that or the individual has to come to terms that somr things may now be out of their grasp.