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ThankDougie

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,630
Buffalo
There is an easy mode. It's called magic. That's whats cool about the game, the difficulty can be scaled by choice of weapons.

I was going to say something like this, only add Shields to the mix, which I'm sure other people have said. There is a kind of "easy mode" in the game and you can find out about it by looking stuff up on Youtube. That said, if there were a tutorial or a "recommended first timer" character setup, that might help. Only problem is that "easy" means different things for different people, and what I mean is that different kinds of approaches to Dark Souls are going to be harder or easier depending on the player. Magic makes stuff pretty simple, but so does playing with a giant two-handed sword after a little practice.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Why are people so adamant on not having an easy mode? If you don't want it easier, then play on normal? Why are so many of you against having people being able to enjoy the atmosphere and scenery without having to play against frustration?

Dark Souls 1 has the most options for easy mode of any game in the series really. You can level up every single piece of armor if you're struggling until you're basically a tank. You can call in co-op to help. Those options are the easy mode. What people are asking for, if they want it made even easier beyond that, is to remove the spirit of the game. People object to that.

The gameplay of the game is its difficulty and challenge. It's a part of that atmosphere, it's a part of the world, it's a part of the narrative. If you remove the difficulty of these games entirely, you are removing every element of its identity.
 

Suicide King

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
Also, let's just remember that we are talking about $60 digital toys, basically. Nothing but entertainment made by an industry focused on making money. And if more people want to buy a game and explore without having to feel frustrated, reading wikis or summoning to progress, I defend the idea that they should be able to.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,300
These are games that are essentially about the player creating their own coping mechanisms, either through abusing the class system, the physics, animation cycles, decoding the math behind things, writing down secrets, etc., so i feel strongly about them being as difficult as they are. The only real thing i have to say is that, more than that there are games that aren't for some people (which i personally think is a cop out), is that people are free to build their own experiences of games. Having a hard, long time with a game is a valid experience too. Modding the game is too. Someone has probably made an infinite life mod or something like that, haven't they?
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,573
Add an easier mode that doesn't give achievements, and keeps it purely single player only. Maybe even add some more restrictions so there's no confusion as the what the "real" game
mode is. What's the harm in that? How is that any more offensive than people summoning which, according to some, make the game a joke anyway?

I feel like if certain concessions like these were made like that so people who otherwise would not buy the game actually do, the arguments against such an implementation are very weak to me and come down to solely wanting to maintain some perception of elitism.
 

Uno Venova

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
I wouldn't play like this, but who am I to tell other how they should experience something if it means it gets bigger and more people involved which might make more people play the "right" (LOL) way in the future? It's the same as allowing coop and turning off invasions which is some heresy too, because if someone don't want or like the exact experience as others they should be banished or not allowed to use all but 1 feature.

Others can fuck off trying to dictate how I play games I purchase, which is why I buy them on PC. If I want easy mode, I can edit and scale HP/DMG, if I want no weight limitation, easy, turn it off, if I want it harder, I can scale that too.

Options are good, ways to tweak the game are good, they add to prolonged lifetime and investment of players.

Protectionism is bad.
I don't know what protectionism is, but who is 'dictating' how you play games?
Add an easier mode that doesn't give achievements, and keeps it purely single player only. Maybe even add some more restrictions so there's no confusion as the what the "real" game
mode is. What's the harm in that? How is that any more offensive than people summoning which, according to some, make the game a joke anyway?

I feel like if certain concessions like these were made like that so people who otherwise would not buy the game actually do, the arguments against such an implementation are very weak to me and come down to solely wanting to maintain some perception of elitism.
This is what confuses me, summoning already makes the game a joke in most cases, so what is even the point in asking the developers who aren't interested for another mode?
 

joecanada

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
Canada
should movies have a subtitles /audio tracks explaining what's happening on screen and have all the names of every characters above the head in case i forget them?



you won't be having fun in a easy mode dark souls. the challenge is the focal point. when you're endgame go back to the first area and mow down enemies with one hit while they do virtually zero damage to you, and tell me it's fun

I love doing that and many old school rpg fans also love grinding for op characters. I had a friend who had a final fantasy 1 party that could OHK the final boss. he played it over and over and loved it. Not everyone enjoys dying over and over or challenge for the sake of challenge, everyone has vastly different goals that can be met by games.

In any event I don't expect the developers to do this but only because this very argument has become the identity of the games... it's great advertising.
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
At this point just do it, so all the people that pretend to like Souls but feels it too hard really tries the game, say how boring it is and leave it again, hopefully also stopping to name calling all the fanbase.

This right here is the inevtiable outcome.

People will play the game, first try every boss with ease, run past everything looking forward to their questmarker, finish it 12 hours later and go "that's it? That's what's so popular?"

Yep I felt the same way about cuphead. Why do some people want games to not even have the OPTION of having an easier mode?

People could certainly play the harder modes and just ignore the easier mode lile most other games have.

Cuphead has an easy mode
 

yungronny

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
1,349
I don't think every game needs an easy mode. Relentless difficulty is pretty much a defining trait of the Souls series and the difficulty/gameplay "loop" is obviously a reflection of what the designers/creators wanted. There are a lot of games that are just too fucking hard for me and that's fine.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,076
Also, let's just remember that we are talking about $60 digital toys, basically. Nothing but entertainment made by an industry focused on making money. And if more people want to buy a game and explore without having to feel frustrated, reading wikis or summoning to progress, I defend the idea that they should be able to.

"It makes more money" is a horrible reason for game design and why we got shit like lootboxes. People don't have to buy it, and just because it's a toy doesn't mean it needs to be for everyone.
 

Zohar127

Member
Oct 27, 2017
171
The sense of confronting and overcoming challenge through perseverance and repetition is an intentional and integral part of the design of dark souls games. "Difficulty" is an arbitrary player option in most games. It's a luxury setting that allows players to tweak the numbers to fit their comfort level. In dark souls the challenge is literally part of the meta game design that is the physical manifestation of the game world's art, lore, and history. It's not meant to be tweaked.

To me it would be no different than asking for guide lines in a Zelda game that tell you exactly where to walk in the dungeons to solve the puzzles, with descriptive text that tells you exactly what items to use and when.

Learning the game systems, the maps, how they interconnect, the enemy behavior and where they spawn, how the combat works, and how weapons should be used is all part of the game and the overwhelming sense of joy and accomplishment when you finally master the systems and beat a tough boss are what this game is all about. Changing that would ruin the experience.

DS games run like clockwork, and because of that, once you learn how the gears are turning, they can be extremely exploitable. The world is reset every time you respawn. The enemies are always in the same place, they always behave the same way, their movesets don't change and they never get cheap shots. Knowing this is one of the most important aspects to improving in DS.

And like others have said, if you don't like it that's fine! Not every game is for everyone. Don't feel forced to continue if you're not having fun.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Difficulty/challenge along with exploration/discovery are core themes in these games.

If you take those things away through easy modes and UI mods then almost everything that creates the appeal of these games is taken away. At that point, what's the point?
 

Gabora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,071
Sao Paulo, Brazil
First let me say that I finished Bloodborne and I love it but I couldn't get into the series because I'm pretty bad at games, like terrible. I beated the game with a friend doing coop because he's a "souls veteran". I really apreciate what he did but I feel like he rushed the game and I didn't do nothing at all.

At first I bought Bloodborne alone and I couldn't find any guide (in the game) explaining the regain system, how things works, etc... I find discovering these things pretty boring and It's not difficult, It's just tedious.

Now I'm playing Dark Souls 1 and I don't know what to do, there is no map at all and you should memorize the path, wish there was a map, at least as an option... I'm dying a lot. Just beat the first boss (tutorial) and I don't know where to go now.

I'm not saying that the game should be excessive hand-holding, but atleast with more options more people would give a try.

Now I'm bored with the game, I'm not getting fun of dying over and over.

A lot of people like to dismiss Dark Souls fans as eletists (look at the "precious" post, a few posts above mine), but here is what worries me as a Dark Souls fan; lets say that From Software answers the cries of hundreds of gamers clamoring for an easy mode, and creates their next game with an easy mode in it. Say that game goes on to sell an extra million units entirely on the back of said easy mode. From sees that and decides that their next game is going to be created around an easy mode with efforts made to balance the game's hard mode later on. That is the worst possible scenario for us! Why? Because there isn't a single game with a decently balanced hard mode, and I'm not exaggerating.

Most developers idea of a hard mode is turning enemies into bullet sponges, or fucking up enemy placement. This isn't fun for us. We only get a handful of hard games every year, whereas there are thousand of simple/easy games being released every year. We don't want to lose what we have just so Dark Souls can accommodate players who can't get used to its style. Some of us end up being harsher than they should in their defense of a series they see as constantly under attack by people who don't want to try hard enough, with many asking "why should we sacrifice this beloved series when those who find it too hard can just play any of the other thousands of games released every year?"

As someone who has been gaming since the 80s, what I'm about to say is by far the most disgusting thing I have ever said but... maybe the series just isn't for you? I mean not every game is meant to be enjoyed by everyone, and I know the Dark Souls series is immensely attractive, but unfortunately part of what makes Dark Souls Dark Souls is the challenging and often unfair game play. I'm just saying it is what it is.

Have you tried looking up maps online? Looking up information on the game? I'm a Dark Souls fan and I don't shy away from using online maps to help me. Make a topic here on ERA and you will get a whole bunch of people to help you. Hell I've beaten every Dark Souls game by shamelessly hiding behind a shield. I don't get the parry system and I don't want to get the parry system lol. I was original not going to play Bloodborne because it shunned my playstyle, I'm a complete turtle and very proud of it, but eventually I got used to it and loved Bloodborne, and I never learned to gun parry, in fact I used the gun once or twice in all my play throughs lol.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
I wouldn't play like this, but who am I to tell other how they should experience something if it means it gets bigger and more people involved which might make more people play the "right" (LOL) way in the future? It's the same as allowing coop and turning off invasions which is some heresy too, because if someone don't want or like the exact experience as others they should be banished or not allowed to use all but 1 feature.

Others can fuck off trying to dictate how I play games I purchase, which is why I buy them on PC. If I want easy mode, I can edit and scale HP/DMG, if I want no weight limitation, easy, turn it off, if I want it harder, I can scale that too.

Options are good, ways to tweak the game are good, they add to prolonged lifetime and investment of players.

Protectionism is bad.
1) I don't think you know what protectionism is

2) So basically your mindset is "fuck what the developers want, imma hack everything"
 

AlanOC91

Owner of YGOPRODeck.com
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
961
Add an easier mode that doesn't give achievements, and keeps it purely single player only. Maybe even add some more restrictions so there's no confusion as the what the "real" game
mode is. What's the harm in that? How is that any more offensive than people summoning which, according to some, make the game a joke anyway?

I feel like if certain concessions like these were made like that so people who otherwise would not buy the game actually do, the arguments against such an implementation are very weak to me and come down to solely wanting to maintain some perception of elitism.

The harm is you aren't giving the player who players the game you've worked on the experience you intended them to have. Dark Souls is all about overcoming insurmountable foes and deadly locations.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,200
I feel like if certain concessions like these were made like that so people who otherwise would not buy the game actually do, the arguments against such an implementation are very weak to me and come down to solely wanting to maintain some perception of elitism.

So you think the From Software has purposely chosen not to include an easy mode after around 6 entries in the series because they want to maintain a perception of elitism amongst their fans? It's not like calls for an "easy mode" are new.
 

Suicide King

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
"It makes more money" is a horrible reason for game design and why we got shit like lootboxes.
I didn't say it needs to happen because it makes more money. I said that I defend the idea of the consumer having more options to interact with interactive entertainment. Especially if it's something that still allows the purists to play the way they want to.
 

Deleted member 24118

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,920
Maybe the Souls games not chasing the trends of dumbing-down is why some of these niche games in niche genres are somehow seeing comparable, if not superior sales to many games in more marketable genres that "appeal to both the casual and the hardcore." Maybe multiplayer games being one of the only areas you can still find challenge is why games like PUBG rocket to the top of the charts while Bethesda and other Western devs have to make videos reaffirming their dedication to singleplayer games despite flagging sales. Maybe appealing to every type of gamer isn't actually possible.

Just a thought.
 

Ardiloso

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,368
Brazil
I'm 5 hours in the same zone, undead burg, can't get past because there is a dragon who kills me everytime. Also there is a fat guy under the tower pretty scary.
Just run to under that bridge then wait for the dragon to fly. After this, go back upstairs and run nonstop to the bonfire at the end. You don't need to fight that dragon if you don't want.
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,666
The following is a general statement, not necessarily related to Dark Souls.

Adding a simple option, or making what looks like a simple design change doesn't always produce the result you'd think by the developers. There used to be a time where open-world games were considered too difficult, archaic, and inaccessible by the mainstream audience. This was because they expected you to traverse its world naturally, without quest markers. You were expected to reason your way through the game as a real character in the world. This was true in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind for example. Then came The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, which was designed with quest markers as the default option to address accessiblity. You could still play without quest markers, but the world wasn't designed for it anymore. Since then just about every single AAA open-world game follows the same terrible design goals, and even if you want to turn off quest markers in the hopes of playing the game naturally, you can't. They could very well design a logically consistent world, with various options for information acquisition without quest markers, and then add the quest markers as an option, but it's far easier for them to do the reverse, which produces very different result. The single design decision of having voiced protagonists in Fallout 4 had a ripple effect throughout all of it.

Now, I don't want to speculate what including a different difficulty mode in Dark Souls could do, but I'd be wary to consider it just an option that's a win/win for everyone.


Sure, I understand. I think morrowind is much better than oblivion. But the issues you bring up are because of bad game design, not because the options are bad.

It's also an example of them designing around the 'easy' and adding options for the 'hard'. Stuff like Forza or Halo for example is designed around Heroic but then they made options to make it even harder or easier.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but if they designed a souls game like normal, and then tweaked some stuff in a seperate mode so that it could be easier for more people to enjoy at least being a part of the experience then that is a positive thing for everyone.
 

-Tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,598
Easy mode -

Disable invasions.
Set Summons to other easy mode players only.
Set enemy damage to player at 25%.
Set player damage to enemies at 150%.

There. Done.

LMAO @ traps, puzzles and "general layout", its not a platformer mate. Zelda has harder version of those things and people never complain about those.

And actually, I am pretty sure some mods already exist for the PC version that tweak those specific settings. So your series is already ruined and you dont even know it. ;)

And people would still get lost and ask for a map or some other nonsense. Play the game or don't play the game, that is all.
 

Ebullientprism

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
I would also limit the souls lost upon death by like 50%.

Yeah that too.

Time for some blasphemy.

I hacked Dark Souls 1 to give me pretty much unlimited health.

I enjoyed the game more on that 2nd playthrough than the first. The "right" way was still there, but my hacked playthrough was really enjoyable and the game was still loads of fun to adventure through.

Bring on the easy mode, I say.

Hey if you had fun thats all that matters. As long as you dont hack online who gives a shit.

Fuck anyone that tells you that you should play it the "right" way.

Hell, I would honestly recommend anyone who finds the series too difficult to look into some PC mods to tweak the difficulty and enjoy it for the visuals, locations and the art style. Its an incredibly beautiful series.
 
Oct 28, 2017
226
Another reason an easy mode wouldn't work is because of the intrinsic nature of the online game, particularly PVP. If an easy mode allowed for better loot rates, less damage received/more damage given, easier bosses etc... Then they'd need to have their own separate online server to match-make with, or they'd have a distinct advantage when playing online. You could of course force the difficulty to return to normal in case of an invasion or such, but I don't think it's a fair or elegant solution and will likely cause more frustration for the host.

Nah, I think the current system works the best and summoning friends/strangers to help you if you're struggling is still the most inspired solution. Also, that Bloodborne image with the checkmarks/map makes me feel queesy. I love Assassins Creed, but I want it as far away from my Souls games as is physically possible.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
There is no difficulty mode in general OP. A lot of the design itself is based around balancing for a single difficulty.

To begin with, its not up to the devs to make every gamer feel special. They make their game balanced around what they want to achieve.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
To those saying what's the harm. Let me explain part of the beauty of Dark Souls.

Fighting Ornstein and Smough for hours, thinking they are the hardest bosses you've ever faced in a video game. Thinking you'll never ever beat it. Thinking it's absolutely impossible.

But you do end up beating it. And my god does it feel good. It's a massive rush and a feeling that only the Dark Souls games can bring.

I guarantee you that this feeling would be hugely diminished with the introduction of difficulty modes. You could try best them for an hour and then lower the difficulty and beat them. Would it feel the same? God no. I played through Dantes Inferno and loved it. It was also a hard game but the last boss stumped me and I turned the difficulty down for him and beat him. I'm still annoyed at myself for doing that.

You'd completely take away form the Dark Souls experience by introducing these things. Dark Souls was designed to be hard. It's supposed to be hard in purpose! That's how it just is. It's all part of the experience.
I fully agree with you. It's a core part of the experience, and ignoring it takes away from that experience.

Having said that, I think it's okay to give the option to NOT have the core experience, as long as the game acknowledges that it is not the intended experience, and is not designed around it. What if someone likes the game for its atmosphere, feeling of exploration and lore, but dislikes the combat? Sure, the combat is the main draw of the series for many people, including me, but if someone wants to enjoy the game for something else, then I don't think it's anathema to include an option that lets that audience enjoy the game. It has nothing to do with me. In the end, it lets more people enjoy the world of Souls games, and gives you more people you can share that enjoyment with. Maybe people could get into the series in easy mode, and if they like it enough then they might want to give it another go in the normal, intended mode.

I'll go back to the Bayonetta easy mode example. Yes, making all the fights winnable by mindless mashing removes the meat of the game. But what if someone doesn't want to learn the combat system, and just wants to have fun watching crazy Bayonetta shit happen on screen without dying all the time? It gives people an option to enjoy the game in a way that is not the core experience, while not taking away from the experience of the people who like to play the game on normal or higher difficulty.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
This right here is the inevtiable outcome.

People will play the game, first try every boss with ease, run past everything looking forward to their questmarker, finish it 12 hours later and go "that's it? That's what's so popular?"

Of course it would happen, it's like making a puzzle game that almost solve itself.

But at this point just make it, I'm tired of people that really have not interest in the game telling me I'm an elitist (or worse) when I try to explain why the difficulty is important for this series, so just experience it by yourself with that easy mode.
 

Zone

Banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
90
My answer to OP is no.

Honestly, I get everyone saying "what's wrong with more options?" but you have to understand that the audience that this game targets is the hardcore kind that want a challenge, so I don't understand why some people don't respect a developers wish. If they wanted to target everyone, then I'm sure there would've been an easier difficulty, but clearly that was not the intention. They created something specific and that's what you get.

Not sure why a lot of people keep bashing everyone that says "maybe it's not your game" when they're right in a sense.

Reading your original post, you mentioned how you're bad at games and that you couldn't get into the series, when those games are known for their difficulty and challenge. You also mentioned that you find discovering things boring and tedious, which of course is one more thing that you do in these sorts of games.

Not every game is meant for everyone. I understand you're frustrated with the game but, maybe it's not for you?
 

Iva Demilcol

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
Iwatodai Dorm
You actually played the game in easy mode OP.

Also, before someone asks, there's a pause function too, but it's called "quit".

By saying those things I'm sure I sound like an asshole but the game was designed that way because the philosophy behind it is that you'll feel satisfaction by beating this obtuse game. You can argue that it's design decisions are flawed but they are intended for certain types of players.
 

99humanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,996
the arguments against such an implementation are very weak to me and come down to solely wanting to maintain some perception of elitism.

I promise you my argument against it is not to maintain a perception of elitism. That's silly.

But it boils down to.. this argument being the same every time, going in circles, since the first game. Many years later and From has still opted to not having an easy mode in these games. So, they obviously agree that their game is better without it. I agree with them.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
Souls games have a certain mystique to them that I think would be damaged by discrete difficulty modes.

That said, there are options built in. Summoning. That's what it's there for. Npc summons can also make fights way easier.
 

Maculo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
320
Madrid, Spain
A good way to deal with these feelings I believe could be to think of soulsborne games as a different genre. Like, I don't enjoy fighting games or truly open world games so I don't play them. Witcher 3 could very well be the Goat of the goats but I don't have any urge to play it. And neither I wished it belonged to a different genre. It is what it is.
And "Soulsborne" games are what they are. The set difficulty is imprinted in their NDA, without it, they would be a different beast.
 

Tecnniqe

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,743
Antarctica
1) I don't think you know what protectionism is

2) So basically your mindset is "fuck what the developers want, imma hack everything"
Clearly in this sense it's about protecting everything 100% and allowing no changes in order for more people to experience something, even if it's not the experience someone set out to give originally.
Experience differs and allowing tweaks may improve others enjoyment, allowing them the enjoyment of said experience which they otherwise wouldn't have had.

And yes, fuck the developers shoehorned vision, if I'm playing a game for the third time, maybe I want to spice it up with 100% more HP and DMG enemies, or the other way around.
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,573
So you think the From Software has purposely chosen not to include an easy mode after around 6 entries in the series because they want to maintain a perception of elitism amongst their fans? It's not like calls for an "easy mode" are new.

No, they have been making the games they way they want. I'm sure they will continue to do so.

To clarify, I feel like that perception exists among those players who would not want the game to have any sort of alternate mode even if concessions were made to make it completely clear it is not the default experience. (e.g. no achievements, maybe fewer bosses, items, etc)
 

datamage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
913
I think one thing people aren't really fully grasping the idea of adding an easy mode being a bad thing is it takes development hours and time. If the devs are spending time creating an easy mode, it's not going to be a something hacked together. It would be an experience that the devs want to portray to the player. If they feel that it's not representative of the product that they want to sell then they're not going to do it, chances are. Not only that but if they are adding an easy mode, chances are they have to balance it or redo the mode altogether to make sure it truly is easy or fits into the mold of what they define to be "easy." At this point then you have the devs fumbling with two modes and there might be a compromise made that would adversely affect either modes in a negative fashion. The naysayers on the thread fear this most likely which is why they are adamantly against the idea of adding an easy mode. I'm in this boat as well. Sometimes a game isn't for me. Sometimes it's an entire genre. Not everything has to be for everyone. It's simply possible. The best games in my opinion are the ones that tries to do something and fans create a big deal out of it. Build it and they will come. Don't focus test the shit out of it.

This lines up with what I was thinking and wanted to say, perfect. I don't want a single minute of dev time wasted in trying to cater to everyone.

What did you people do when you couldn't beat Super Macho Man or Mike Tyson in Punch Out? You kept trying? Right, do the same here. (Though I'm assuming the people complaining about the difficulty of Souls weren't around then.)
 

Leek

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
732
The most valuable tool in the Souls games is knowledge. Once you know what you're doing with bosses and areas, it generally doesn't take a lot of gaming skill to pull it off. I think I spent my first 5 hours in Undead Burg and by the end of the game, it had become my favourite of all time. Now I'm at the point where I can easily rush through any area in minutes, and I'm sure most people who have beaten the game once or twice can as well.
But that doesn't mean go look up a guide to get you through the game. The fun in Dark Souls, at least for me, is acquiring all that knowledge through all my failures and watching it blossom into competent gameplay.

An option in the menu to make the game easier would just take away the magic. Why would the average gamer sit there and die to bosses dozens of times when they can flick a switch and get through it easily?
There's always summon signs if you really need to do that, but even those I feel take away from what makes the game special. The game is very much about the journey, not the destination.

If you're not enjoying what the game's offering, there's no need to force it. The option to stop playing is always there. There are literally thousands of other games, so you don't need to change a single one so you can try and get into it. The people this game was made for are already playing it, and I don't think there's any reason a game that has successfully found such a dedicated fanbase needs to make itself more accessible.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
Multiplayer basically trivializes the games. There can't be an easier mode than enemies and bosses having absolutely no idea how to handle two players at once. One person defends or runs away, the other person freely attacks it in the back.

Any easier and the game would play for you.
 

Otakunofuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,139
User warned: insults, ignoring moderator instructions in OP
I don't think they need an easy mode, but being able to turn off player invasions and adding more optional A.I. summons would go a long way towards helping more people have more fun. Re-programming the die-hard fanbase to not be such douche-tools would help, too.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,579
Bad idea. To those wanting an easy mode: what do you expect out of the Souls games? There are games with flashier combat. Souls games aren't cinematic and narrative driven games. So what is it? Once again, it's not about elitism, it's about feeling tension in a game and feeling an accomplishment for progressing and ultimately beating the game (you don't even unlock stuff once you've beaten those games). An easy mode, for example regular mobs being no threat because of lower damage output, would take that away from the series and leave players on easy mode with a mediocre experience.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Some of the ideas/suggestions in this thread sort of make me feel like some people want to be able to say they beat Dark Souls without actually having to beat Dark Souls, at least in the way the developers intended.

The entire reason the Souls franchise exploded onto the scene in the first place was because they had a very specific vision and didn't deviate from that vision at all to placate to a broader base of potential consumers, and did this during a wave of video games that were placating to as many people as humanly possible. Let the Souls franchise continue dancing with the date that brought it here.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
I disagree. The main motivation lies in overcoming the struggles and find ways to defeat the enemies Wouldn't be the same in easy mode. Also the unforgiving, hopeless and cruel atmosphere of the games would suffer.
 

Manu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,191
Buenos Aires, Argentina
I'll go back to the Bayonetta easy mode example. Yes, making all the fights winnable by mindless mashing removes the meat of the game. But what if someone doesn't want to learn the combat system, and just wants to have fun watching crazy Bayonetta shit happen on screen without dying all the time? It gives people an option to enjoy the game in a way that is not the core experience, while not taking away from the experience of the people who like to play the game on normal or higher difficulty.
Well, by my personal experience, as someone who's terrible at character action games, none of Platinum's games have grabbed me because of this (other than NieR Automata, and that's an RPG). I'm not skilled enough to take advantage of the intricacies of the combat so whenever I beat a P* game I'm like "that was kinda boring."

That's probably what's gonna happen with a Souls Easy Mode. People are going to beat the game doing the bare minimum and they go "that's it? what was so great about that?"
 

RaySpencer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,666
Sure: there being an easy mode is a non issue. The die hard fans can simply ignore it.
But it's pointless in the sense that, there would be no fun in easy mode besides just exploring the world of souls. If you're into that sure. But the gameplay itself would be boring because it would not be exciting or rewarding.

Trust me when I say I didn't get souls. But when it clicks it just does. Plus it can be all overwhelming.. Every souls I have played since demon souls has been progressively easier because you get the mechanics.

Boring for you sure. But now someone who couldn't enjoy it before, would now be able to enjoy it.

You can continue playing and enjoying the game you love, and now someone else can also begin to love a game.
 

Gabora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,071
Sao Paulo, Brazil
I feel like if certain concessions like these were made like that so people who otherwise would not buy the game actually do, the arguments against such an implementation are very weak to me and come down to solely wanting to maintain some perception of elitism.

Then let me ask you this, if the game is too hard why not play something else? Why not go after a game that is tailored to your need instead of saying a game, tailored to someone else's need, should change to fit your needs instead?
 

99humanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,996
I don't think they need an easy mode, but being able to turn off player invasions and adding more optional A.I. summons would go a long way towards helping more people have more fun. Re-programming the die-hard fanbase to not be such douche-tools would help, too.

I see a lot more people here calling the fans douche-tools than fans calling people douche-tools :shrug:
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
Some of the ideas/suggestions in this thread sort of make me feel like some people want to be able to say they beat Dark Souls without actually having to beat Dark Souls, at least in the way the developers intended.

The entire reason the Souls franchise exploded onto the scene in the first place was because they had a very specific vision and didn't deviate from that vision at all to placate to a broader base of potential consumers, and did this during a wave of video games that were placating to as many people as humanly possible. Let the Souls franchise continue dancing with the date that brought it here.

Yup. And now we have the bloodborne franchise to hopefully keep that torch alive.

We've been dealing with this tango for centuries
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Demon's Souls needs an easy mode
Dark Souls needs an easy mode
Dark Souls 2 needs an easy mode
Dark Souls 3 needs an easy mode
Bloodborne needs an easy mode

next year: Bloodborne 2 needs an easy mode
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the circus continues
easy mode won't happen as long as miyazaki is in the director's chair. praise the sun for that