Dark Souls games should have an easy mode

[Garlador]

Time for some blasphemy.

I hacked Dark Souls 1 to give me pretty much unlimited health.

I enjoyed the game more on that 2nd playthrough than the first. The "right" way was still there, but my hacked playthrough was really enjoyable and the game was still loads of fun to adventure through.

Bring on the easy mode, I say.

 

[Deleted member 11008]

I don't think the Souls games need difficulty option, I just have played Demon's Souls last year, but I feel than certain classes (their stats, but most important, their equipment) can help you a lot in the early game more than the others.

For example, I was a temple knight at first, but I screw it at the Soul's managament so I started a new game with a mage. I have to say it was easier this time thanks to both my past experience and the fact magic is very powerful.

 

[Tecnniqe]

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How dare you ruin Bloodborne with such options which would let more people have a better time playing the game.
HOW YOU DARE!

Seems like a easy mode UI fix which won't affect anyone not wanting it. No problem.

 

[Uno Venova]

Other games are much better about finding where to go, so thankfully I don't have to deal with that bullshit.

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Conversely, I think the souls game do such a great job with level design, breadcrumbs, and enemy placement, that, even with no waypoint, figuring out where to go is a complete non-issue.

 

[Suicide King]

I guess, it's just in my experience, for a game like this, summoning is so close to an invincibility mode there's no need to feel gated at all. The few times I've done it, the help made it so easy, that I regretted it because I did pretty much nothing.

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Only for boss fights, though. I mean accessibility mode as in "let people with disabilites enjoy the world, lore and pacing without feeling frustrated". I know there are great stories about elderly people playing them, but if there was an actual easy mode, instead of an easy mode according to experienced players, it would be completely optional.

Although people can just use Cheat Engine and make the game easier by themselves, which also works.

 

[okayfrog]

I'm 5 hours in the same zone, undead burg, can't get past because there is a dragon who kills me everytime. Also there is a fat guy under the tower pretty scary.

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Heh, I remember I got to the third boss (at least, I think it's the third boss for most) and struggled at it for three hours. It felt really damn good to get past it.

I would suggest you keep struggling until you beat the next boss. If you don't feel any catharsis from beating it, stop playing.

 

[Poppy]

i think easy mode in dark souls is just poise and shields

easy mode in demons souls is magic

bloodborne easy mode is just keep the saw cleaver lol

 

[Deleted member 13506]

The easy mode already exists: It's called co-op. If you're lost, struggling with a boss or just generally want to clown around without taking things as seriously as you would solo, then summon some buddies and it'll solve pretty much all your problems. It completely breaks the balance of the game, but it's there as an option if you need it.

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Finding buddies is the hard mode for me. I'm glad this easy mode isn't mandatory.

 

[AlanOC91]

Permit me to disagree. Dark Souls is not just what you define it as. Dark Souls -- to me -- is a challenging game built around struggling over and over again, fighting crazy difficult bosses, and eventually reaching the credits. That's what I get out of the game.

Others play through using summons and have a great time breezing through with friends. Others spend hundreds of hours in PVP. Some, like OP, may just want to get some cool weapons and admire the presentation.

And, again, it doesn't affect you at all.

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Dark Souls initial burst of appraisal was because of its singular difficulty and how it drifted away form that "norm" at the time of its release, which was games hand holding you through everything and games being too easy.

Dark Souls wouldn't have been nearly as praised if it had an included easy mode.

The game is what it is because of its set difficulty. You can use the game to make it easier by using things like summons instead of using difficulty modes to change background values you never see. That completely takes away from the core of what is Dark Souls. It just makes it not Dark Souls to be honest.

 

[Uno Venova]

"5 minutes of dev work"

 

[motherless]

Why are people so adamant on not having an easy mode? If you don't want it easier, then play on normal? Why are so many of you against having people being able to enjoy the atmosphere and scenery without having to play against frustration?

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I really don't know. Easy mode for some might be hard for others. As is, the regular game is easy for some and too hard for some. More options does not impact others. So what if somebody just wants to cake walk through the game, they are not forcing that experience on somebody who prefers it to be more challenging.

 

[Sephzilla]

How dare you ruin Bloodborne with such options which would let more people have a better time playing the game.
HOW YOU DARE!

Seems like a easy mode UI fix which won't affect anyone not wanting it. No problem.

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A huge part of what goes into this games is not having everything spelled out for you and making you explore and discover things on your own. A UI """"fix"""" like this would take away from the game in a big way

 

[Deleted member 14377]

When I started Dark Souls 1 I got stuck on the Undead Parish before the Tauros Demon for ten hours. Ten long hours. Then Suddenly like magic it clicked and I really started enjoying myself and beating the Tauros Demon for the first time was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done. I just feel like if people put in the time they'll eventually begin to get better and enjoy it. If you don't feel like putting the time in I really can't fault you for that. I was in a similar position as you OP but I think if you power though it you'll really enjoy yourself. At the same time if you don't that's fine too don't worry about it the game just isn't for you and that's ok.

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Exactly. It's hard to explain and I get it doesn't "click" for everyone. Because like some have said, the game just might not be for you. Everyone's first Souls experience is usually the most difficult and the longest to beat. The game teaches you through repetition. Not to mention there are so many builds and ways to go throughout the game, some bosses and enemies aren't structured to go down to a certain build easy etc;. I believe the difficulty is so much fun to me and I would love to go back being blind to so many of the tricks of the series and just relearn it all.

I'm sure my first Dark Souls run was something like 100+ hours. Subsequent are less than half that. It's like a fighting game, which I LOVE but I can't for the life of me get better at them. I've accepted that fighting games aren't for me because I don't care enough like I do about the Souls series, to understand the mechanics to the extent where I am good at it. Fighting games aren't for me. There are other ways of enjoying them though, same with souls. And maybe that second hand knowledge might help some of these people. Watch a bit of a more informative lets play, like some of ENB's older stuff and some weird mechanics will be explained.

 

[KingLear]

These games get easier as you progress your character more. If you're having a hard time early in the game consider picking a class with more health and heavier armor.

If you're dying to the first encounter it's because you're missing something else.

Spoiler: First boss

Of you're talking about the fat demon just outside of your cell you have to run past him the first time, not fight.

The lack of a map is less problematic as you go on with the addition of teleportation between bonfires.

 

[Ferrio]

Conversely, I think the souls game do such a great job with level design, breadcrumbs, and enemy placement, that, even with no waypoint, figuring out where to go is a complete non-issue.

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Yep, the game shows players where they need to go without pointing it out directly. People forget how to read what the game is telling you to do when it's not directly pointed out.

 

[KLoWn]

I'm 5 hours in the same zone, undead burg, can't get past because there is a dragon who kills me everytime. Also there is a fat guy under the tower pretty scary.

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You can run down some stairs on the bridge where the dragon is, and then go under him.

Explore, die, and explore some more, and if you meet an enemy that kills you over and over, you keep coming back until you've learned his pattern and can kill him. That's the name of the game. The game will automatically get easier when you've done this enough times.

 

[Lashley]

Isn't the whole point/appeal of the games the fact that they're difficult?

 

[Leafhopper]

Why are people so adamant on not having an easy mode? If you don't want it easier, then play on normal? Why are so many of you against having people being able to enjoy the atmosphere and scenery without having to play against frustration?

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Because an easy mode in this game would just be invincibility at a certain point without just having a glowing arrow telling you where to go and invisible walls that didn't allow you to fall off of anything.

I am mostly exaggerating but, I think making the game easier, whatever that maybe, making enemies less aggressive and giving you more health still wouldn't fix problems with people getting lost or falling to their death. I think having difficulty modes after a certain point is just making a different game with the amount of complaints people that have with the series.

 

[Res]

These games aren't for everyone. I'd argue that co-op is easy mode, not that there is anything wrong with that

 

[blonded]

I agree that the series would probably be better off without an easy mode but on the other hand the overly zealous gatekeeping of some fans feels really weird

 

[Sephzilla]

A huge aspect of the Souls games is exploring, experimenting, and learning. If you do these things you should very quickly learn that the Soulsborne games already have all of the tools to make the game significantly easier built right in.

 

[kayos90]

I think one thing people aren't really fully grasping the idea of adding an easy mode being a bad thing is it takes development hours and time. If the devs are spending time creating an easy mode, it's not going to be a something hacked together. It would be an experience that the devs want to portray to the player. If they feel that it's not representative of the product that they want to sell then they're not going to do it, chances are. Not only that but if they are adding an easy mode, chances are they have to balance it or redo the mode altogether to make sure it truly is easy or fits into the mold of what they define to be "easy." At this point then you have the devs fumbling with two modes and there might be a compromise made that would adversely affect either modes in a negative fashion. The naysayers on the thread fear this most likely which is why they are adamantly against the idea of adding an easy mode. I'm in this boat as well. Sometimes a game isn't for me. Sometimes it's an entire genre. Not everything has to be for everyone. It's simply possible. The best games in my opinion are the ones that tries to do something and fans create a big deal out of it. Build it and they will come. Don't focus test the shit out of it.

 

[motherless]

Dark Souls initial burst of appraisal was because of its singular difficulty and how it drifted away form that "norm" at the time of its release, which was games hand holding you through everything and games being too easy.

Dark Souls wouldn't have been nearly as praised if it had an included easy mode.

The game is what it is because of its set difficulty. You can use the game to make it easier by using things like summons instead of using difficulty modes to change background values you never see. That completely takes away from the core of what is Dark Souls. It just makes it not Dark Souls to be honest.

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You really have no way of know if it would have been received better or worse for a lot of people for having an easy mode. An easy mode would have made it more accessible to a larger fan base due to people not getting into that simply find it too difficult to be enjoyable.

 

[Oneiros]

Conversely, I think the souls game do such a great job with level design, breadcrumbs, and enemy placement, that, even with no waypoint, figuring out where to go is a complete non-issue.

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Good for you.

 

[ReBirFh]

I don't see the problem of having an easier mode. Enemies could have 75% of their HP and miss one of their moves or do them slower and as a trade-off the player can't acess the final area or can't fight the last few bosses like some old Super Nintendo/Genesis games used to do. This way the player would be able to become familiar with the gameplay and locations but would need to play properly to be able to have the full experience.

I tried DS1 but the resolution sucked on PC and everything seemed too obtuse, I was having fun trying to one up the enemies but the item management and their purpose put me off the game.

Reading walkthrough, wikis, watching videos or similar suff are a lot more prejudicial to the experience and a lot of the GODS here do that.

 

[signal]

How dare you ruin Bloodborne with such options which would let more people have a better time playing the game.
HOW YOU DARE!

Seems like a easy mode UI fix which won't affect anyone not wanting it. No problem.

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You actually think the game should have something like that UI? lol

 

[Eumi]

TBF, you could probably get away with changing 1 single stat (x2 health gain on level up) and it would probably satisfy most people looking for an easier game. Disable online in that mode and call it a day. 5 minutes of dev work.

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Altering the damage/health system of the game would make areas like the graveyard skeletons break. If the skeletons only do half the damage or the player can take double the hits, then new players may actually be able to make decent progress there, instead of the intended effect of realising these things are way too strong and looking for an alternate route.

The OP has admitted they're stuck on the dragon. The dragon that is supposed to discourage the player from going that way by one shotting them. Had they been playing an easy mode with nerfed damage or extra health they probably could have walked past that dragon and sequence broke the game without even realising it.

The difficulty of these games is as much an aspect of how they function as the geometry and mechanics are. Altering it would outright break parts of these games.

 

[Ebullientprism]

What would an easy mode even entail?

- More damage done against mobs?
- More health?
- Less damage?

Those things are already done by leveling up correctly.

You still then have to deal with traps and the general layout of the levels.

Are they going to change based on the difficulty? Are traps that are there now going to be gone in easy mode?

What about attack strings or animations or the speed of the attacks? Are they going to change to give more leeway to people? What about i frames from rolling? Is that going to be changed?


Online is a thing that people like

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Easy mode -

Disable invasions.
Set Summons to other easy mode players only.
Set enemy damage to player at 25%.
Set player damage to enemies at 150%.

There. Done.

LMAO @ traps, puzzles and "general layout", its not a platformer mate. Zelda has harder version of those things and people never complain about those.

And actually, I am pretty sure some mods already exist for the PC version that tweak those specific settings. So your series is already ruined and you dont even know it. ;)

 

[Uno Venova]

Yep, the game shows players where they need to go without pointing it out directly. People forget how to read what the game is telling you to do when it's not directly pointed out anymore.

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For a time AAA games we're so intent on telling the player exactly where to go at all times I guess some got too used to that. If you have any memory at all Souls games should be no problem.

Good for you.

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:)

 

[Sygma]

First let me say that I finished Bloodborne and I love it but I couldn't get into the series because I'm pretty bad at games, like terrible. I beated the game with a friend doing coop because he's a "souls veteran". I really apreciate what he did but I feel like he rushed the game and I didn't do nothing at all.

At first I bought Bloodborne alone and I couldn't find any guide (in the game) explaining the regain system, how things works, etc... I find discovering these things pretty boring and It's not difficult, It's just tedious.

Now I'm playing Dark Souls 1 and I don't know what to do, there is no map at all and you should memorize the path, wish there was a map, at least as an option... I'm dying a lot. Just beat the first boss (tutorial) and I don't know where to go now.

I'm not saying that the game should be excessive hand-holding, but atleast with more options more people would give a try.

Now I'm bored with the game, I'm not getting fun of dying over and over.

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It's a serie designed for those who enjoy these things. And to tell you the truth not a single soulsborne game is hard enough for you not to progress in them

At the very base they re still rpgs and enemies don't scale when you re leveling up. My first souls game was bloodborne and when it was really hardcore for me I simply took the time and leveled up. Figured out farming routes, tried doing them by using as few vials as possible and when I reached bosses I usually murdered them straight. Did Amelia first try, died once on the witch of hemlick, think I died 3 times on the shadow of yarnham and after that I did dark beast pearl on the first try

Like seriously, just level up

 

[Aniki]

There are a lot of different reasons why people love the Souls games. Some do it for the exploration, for the characters, the lore, the boss fights, the multiplayer aspects or they just want to be challenged. Of course there are people that like it because of mix of these reasons or all of them. That's why i have no problem if an easy mode is being offered. People enjoy these games because of different reasons.

I could understand if some fans are afraid that such a mode would attract a new range of customers and they fear From Software might focus on their needs first before, considering their more hardcore oriented clientel. I would also be annoyed, if that were to happen. But i don't have any reason to assume that, for now at least.

 

[karmitt]

My wife recently saw me playing Bloodborne, and never have I seen her so enthralled in a game's setting. Had she the skill and patience, she might spend more time in that world than I could possibly imagine, but for now she's left just watching (and considering I'm likely not going to return to the game, even that option is ruled out).

I understand that the game is supposed to be hard, cruel, etc. It accomplishes that amazingly well, but why can't there be an "easy mode" for those that just want to appreciate everything about the game and it's world except the challenge. There's so much morbid and grotesque beauty across the franchise - enemy designs, architecture, sound design, the whole lot. It's just a shame that these worlds, worlds whose respective aesthetic are virtually unchallenged, are deemed only suitable for the most dedicated of gamers to enjoy.

 

[Boiled Goose]

No.

See Mark Brown's video.

Difficulty is intrinsic to it's themes and design.

 

[Swanlee]

Yep I felt the same way about cuphead. Why do some people want games to not even have the OPTION of having an easier mode?

People could certainly play the harder modes and just ignore the easier mode lile most other games have.

 

[TreeMePls]

No.

See Mark Brown's video.

Difficulty is intrinsic to it's themes and design.

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And this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM2dDF4B9a4

 

[RalchAC]

I'm a stubborn person. What I like the most about Bloodborne and the Souls games is the exploration. I feel, when exploring, the game hits the perfect balance. It's a tense experience, with the traps and enemies hiding, new types of enemies that can screw you and lots of interesting stuff to discover (whether it's items, shortcuts, alternative paths and more). The relative scarcity of bonfires makes exploration more thrilling because you don't want to die.

Then I get to a boss fight, and my ass is kicked a bunch of times, and I'm too stubborn to ask for help because I want to defeat that boss by myself. Which isn't a problem, unless the game doesn't allow me to explore other areas until I beat said boss, which then becomes a problem to me since I loved being able to juggle between worlds in Demon's Souls whenever I was blocked.

With that said, I think the game already has an easy boss for what actually matters: boss fights. And that's summoning other players. I'd say the actual levels aren't that hard. Yeah, they want you to pay attention to things, but most enemies actually die in a few hits and you aren't overwhelmed by their numbers that often. Adding an easy mode would remove what makes the exploration so thrilling, I think.

 

[Emka]

"5 minutes of dev work"

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"simple tweaks"

 

[Deleted member 8408]

"5 minutes of dev work"

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People don't understand that "options" need to be implemented, balanced and tested as well.

If it were so simple or there was enough demand then there would be these "easy mode" mods for the pc versions.

 

[KillLaCam]

Maybe if you don't get trophies /achievements in easy mode. Since it won't really be achieving anything

 

[AlanOC91]

To those saying what's the harm. Let me explain part of the beauty of Dark Souls.

Fighting Ornstein and Smough for hours, thinking they are the hardest bosses you've ever faced in a video game. Thinking you'll never ever beat it. Thinking it's absolutely impossible.

But you do end up beating it. And my god does it feel good. It's a massive rush and a feeling that only the Dark Souls games can bring.

I guarantee you that this feeling would be hugely diminished with the introduction of difficulty modes. You could try best them for an hour and then lower the difficulty and beat them. Would it feel the same? God no. I played through Dantes Inferno and loved it. It was also a hard game but the last boss stumped me and I turned the difficulty down for him and beat him. I'm still annoyed at myself for doing that.

You'd completely take away form the Dark Souls experience by introducing these things. Dark Souls was designed to be hard. It's supposed to be hard in purpose! That's how it just is. It's all part of the experience.

 

[Ferrs]

At this point just do it, so all the people that pretend to like Souls but feels it too hard (some without even trying the game) plays their easy mode, say how boring it is and leave , hopefully also stopping to name calling the whole fanbase.

 

[stat84]

Nope i think there should only be one diffculty(with the exception of that covenant in DS2) so that everyone can experience the game they way the developers wanted to.If someone finds that too difficult and can't finish the game then no problem just quit the game.

 

[Tecnniqe]

A huge part of what goes into this games is not having everything spelled out for you and making you explore and discover things on your own. A UI """"fix"""" like this would take away from the game in a big way

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I wouldn't play like this, but who am I to tell other how they should experience something if it means it gets bigger and more people involved which might make more people play the "right" (LOL) way in the future? It's the same as allowing coop and turning off invasions which is some heresy too, because if someone don't want or like the exact experience as others they should be banished or not allowed to use all but 1 feature.

Others can fuck off trying to dictate how I play games I purchase, which is why I buy them on PC. If I want easy mode, I can edit and scale HP/DMG, if I want no weight limitation, easy, turn it off, if I want it harder, I can scale that too.

Options are good, ways to tweak the game are good, they add to prolonged lifetime and investment of players.

Protectionism is bad.

 

[okayfrog]

Easy mode -

Disable invasions.
Set Summons to other easy mode players only.
Set enemy damage to player at 25%.
Set player damage to enemies at 150%.

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I would also limit the souls lost upon death by like 50%.

 

[Noroi_Kisaragi]

In theory: Yes, Souls games could technically have an easy mode
In practice: No, they won't.

Miyazaki is slowly making the games more accessible every entry.

It seems to me his philosophy forward is:
*Souls style games - Accessible (respecs, NG+ whenever you want, etc.)
*Bloodborne style games - Hardcore (no respecs, forced NG+, etc.)

but easy mode is off the table for any accessibility features. miyazaki is a self-admitted mascochist, so if you don't like masochistic gameplay, the souls games really aren't for you. The gameplay of Souls is supposed to evoke classic difficulty from the NES/SNES days, to add an easy mode completely destroys that aspect of the game. So yeah, hard pass on easy mode.

 

[AlanOC91]

You really have no way of know if it would have been received better or worse for a lot of people for having an easy mode. An easy mode would have made it more accessible to a larger fan base due to people not getting into that simply find it too difficult to be enjoyable.

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See my other post. I've explained myself better in it :)

 

[signal]

Yep I felt the same way about cuphead. Why do some people want games to not even have the OPTION of having an easier mode?

People could certainly play the harder modes and just ignore the easier mode lile most other games have.

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Why do people act like game developers, in 2018, are not aware of what difficulty levels are, and purposely chose not to include them for their own reasons?

 

[Dogui]

Time for some blasphemy.

I hacked Dark Souls 1 to give me pretty much unlimited health.

I enjoyed the game more on that 2nd playthrough than the first. The "right" way was still there, but my hacked playthrough was really enjoyable and the game was still loads of fun to adventure through.

Bring on the easy mode, I say.

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That's ok assuming you didn't actually invaded people's games.

 

[Tickling]

There is a place for difficult games just like there is a place for walking simulators. However people can't complain about them having niche(ish) markets as they appeal to smaller markets. IMO I can see a souls like having an easy mode but not all of them.

 

[Leafhopper]

Yep I felt the same way about cuphead. Why do some people want games to not even have the OPTION of having an easier mode?

People could certainly play the harder modes and just ignore the easier mode lile most other games have.

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Because the developer intended to make the game hard so they made it hard. You take it or leave it. I don't know why that's so hard for some people to accept. Games that I am not good enough at, like super hard 2D platformers now a days, I don't play them because they aren't for me.