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Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
The invasions in Dark Souls weren't designed like a (traditional) PvP encounter, despite some people insisting on play it as such. It's not supposed to be an evenly matched 1v1, or fair in any way. It's just another part of the unforgiving world, and a reminder that you're never truly safe in it.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
Put on the way of blue ring and wait for some blue phantoms to come kill him for you, or at least keep him busy.

I like the invasion system. Every now and then I get killed or have to deal with someone playing really cowardly, but when I kill them it's satisfying enough to have been worth it.
 

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,309
"At the time I didnt realize what hard was. I was mainly a FPS fan and RPG spammer. I played games for the fun and not for the challenge."

UGH CASUAL.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
- They heal at every opportunity You don't?

- They run at the slightest hint of resistence They are on a dissavantage (less HP, less estus, etc...), you can also run to the boss fog gate or invoke more people, or even if your "guards" are killed you can run too and invoke more ppl, you are always on a dominance position.

- They cower behind enemies CONSTANTLY As they said, use seed of giant.

- The lag that most invaders have is breathtakingly bad. They hit me from across the room or I do the same to them. ZERO consistency Yeah lag can be bad, on both sides, not only invaders has lag.

DS3 and DS in general PvP is a lot of fun. It can be quite inbalanced true, but is not just pressing R1, actually most high level players will own you like that.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
Co-op trivializes the game. To balance it out, you open yourself to invasions. You are saying you want only the advantages of online play and not the disadvantages. Either deal with it or play something else.
Frankly who cares if it does as long as it affects PvE? Why not let people have fun as they want to. Not everyone has the time to deal with invasion bullshit.

Why can't OP hop into a game to have fun doing coop with his friend for 30 min without wasting most of his time on BS invasions that he doesn't want?

Why not have PvP as an option? It's the same BS about not having Pause in the game or multiple difficulty modes.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Frankly who cares if it does as long as it affects PvE? Why not let people have fun as they want to. Not everyone has the time to deal with invasion bullshit.

Why can't OP hop into a game to have fun doing coop with his friend for 30 min without wasting most of his time on BS invasions that he doesn't want?

Why not have PvP as an option? It's the same BS about not having Pause in the game or multiple difficulty modes.

Is part of the challenge, instead of more normal enemies thrown at you is a human controlled foe, more unpredictable (or predictable depending of the player). Dark Souls is about the challenge and overcoming that challenge, invasions are another form of challenge the game throws at you.

And you don't really have to deal with it, the game gives you enough tools (blue helpers, seed of giant, you just can run up to the boss, etc...)
 

HDMF76

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,316
Never go Ember in Ringed City. Its pussyhole pvp central, never been invaded by so many coward type players as there.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,055
If an invader is eating shit running away, you can try ignoring them honestly. They'll realize you're not gonna put up with them and have no choice but to fight you. If you're lucky, they'll even lose you. I've been invaded a few times by myself and the invader was just constantly trying to bait me. I just kept playing the level like normal and even reached the boss with no problem. You can also try using a seed. If completely fucks up their strategy.

That said, running and using enemies against you is a viable option. It's how I invade lol. There's no way I'm taking two people on at once. If I find myself losing, I'm gonna run and try to backstab you.
 

Tarextherex

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
311
Turn off online, you don't have to deal with that

You can already get plently of bragging rights and proofs that you have gitten gud by simply beating the game and all the bullshit it throws at you. Now beating the game while occasionnally losing all your souls while fighting nerds with no life that are further in the game? That's just a waste of time, life is too short. Play a real fighting game if you wanna do that instead
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Frankly who cares if it does as long as it affects PvE? Why not let people have fun as they want to. Not everyone has the time to deal with invasion bullshit.

Why can't OP hop into a game to have fun doing coop with his friend for 30 min without wasting most of his time on BS invasions that he doesn't want?

Why not have PvP as an option? It's the same BS about not having Pause in the game or multiple difficulty modes.
The game is not balanced for continuous co-op. The game becomes way easier than the developers want it to be when you have a friend playing through the level with you. Invaders are a way of returning that balance, by making it potentially more difficult for you to get through a level if you have a co-op partner. The developers wanted the game to have a certain level of challenge, this is how they insure that level of challenge despite the player choosing to play in co-op.

I mean, you don't have to like this choice, but you also don't have to play the game. Most people who play the series enjoy the way the online features work.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Also OP if your problem is that invaders run away and won't fight you...you don't have to chase them down. Just continue on with the level and fight them if they show up again.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
The only thing that doesn't make sense for me is their complaint about the invaders behavior.

Exactly, that's the whole point. OP wants people that invade him to behave a certain way, lest he rage quits from the session. He accepts the way the multiplayer is designed, but feels entitled to controlling his foes behavior. It's pretty bizarre.
Dark Souls invasions are garbage game design. No reason to put up with it.

You can always play other games. Most people who play Souls games have nothing against them.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,217
I did all the areas by myself offline first, then when my friend was ready to play I joined him and helped him through. He would have never played DS3 to completion if he didn't have co-op, and he hated invaders like you do. If you get invaded and they run off, just keep playing normally. Always keep an eye out for them though.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
It would be better to just have a mode without invasions. It's nothing but a pain if you don't want PVP. No playing offline is not a compromise because then you can't read the hints which the game was designed to encourage. If you like PVP whatever that's you but there's no reason you should be forced to play into it if you don't want to. I think you should only be forced to be open for PVP if you want to invade other players.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
I played without plus, with only npc bros to summon for bosses.

Only way to play, imo.

tenor.gif
 

Noobcraft

Member
Nov 23, 2017
340
Invader is using tools provided by the game to do their thing. If you have a problem with Invaders, just use the item that makes monsters aggro against them, so you can do your thing.
 

Graciaus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
732
If people legitimately had a battle the invasions are cool. But hiding in the level or just being annoying is lame. Once you are in range you should be locked in. Neither side can heal it is just a duel to the death.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Or I could simply close the game and continue on and take the minimal risk of receiving a penalty for doing so.

The point of this thread was to make sure that i wasn't missing any specific rewards by not tolerating that kind of trollish PvP.
Well now youve come off as the problem here. Don't be that person.

If people legitimately had a battle the invasions are cool. But hiding in the level or just being annoying is lame. Once you are in range you should be locked in. Neither side can heal it is just a duel to the death.
Everyone knows boss kills only count if you do it solo

/s

If you need help summon, just know that means you also open yourself up to invasions. Is a give take. Do you want to risk invasion to have help with a boss or do you want to get better until you dont need the help?
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
I can tell you as an avid player in the PVP, it has always been that bad. Since DS1, since DS2, since DS3's launch. If anything, more players are cooping or actively ganking these days and it's actually a fairly terrible experience for invaders with a lot of factors placed against them. I blame no invader for pulling off the stunts they do. If I come across an invader like that and they just run off, I'll shrug it off and continue playing like I was before. If I run across them again later in the level, they will be dealt with then.

As the world host you have a number of different options in how you can deal with invaders. The primary one being summoning, specifically, the Way of the Blue. The covenant is specifically designed to bring Blue Sentinels and Darkmoon Blades into your world to track down the invader. They usually don't take long to come pouring into your world to help. It's also nice you wear that covenant since the sentinels (like me) need all of the summons they can get since it's the only way they can actively go after invaders. It's the perfect covenant for someone such as yourself.

You can also try going back to bonfires and looking for a coop summon there or use other utilities like the giant seed to turn enemies against invaders, albeit it's a bit nerfed now.

Overall, I get your complaints, but at the same time, as someone who used to invade a lot, I still sympathesize more with invaders. The ultimate solution if you hate it so much is don't ember or go offline. If you're cooping actively with someone you have absolutely nothing to get worked up over with invaders. You have an incredible advantage over them when cooping as most of the time the invader will die when outnumbered. Play through the level and eventually the invader will die. Most of the time it will end that way unless the invader gets lucky.
 
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grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,291
Germany
Not to ember is a disadvantage because if the HP lost and playing offline means no coop and no messages, ghosts.

I like the Bloodborne system much more. Let me decide if I like invasions or not.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Not to ember is a disadvantage because if the HP lost and playing offline means no coop and no messages, ghosts.

I like the Bloodborne system much more. Let me decide if I like invasions or not.

That's the trade off. Embers give you an astronomical amount of bonus health, but the game is perfectly playable without them. You can either risk getting invaded with the bonus health or remain safe without it. It's a give or take. It's probably the best handled invasion system of all of the games in that regard.

BB's system was perhaps the worst because it single handedly killed off all PVP. The game quickly died as a result.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,969
United Kingdom
PvP in the souls games have always been a laughable mess. I'll never understand why people want to do PvP when it feels like playing an FPS game with 400 ping. If you want to do something competitive why not just play a fighter, or something like For Honor? Or an FPS, or some card game, it's weird. If you want to just troll others then fine I guess, but there are much better options for anyone that wants to do anything remotely fair and competitive.

I do enjoy helping others on tough bosses though, I'll give it that.
 

Tecnniqe

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,743
Antarctica
You do you OP, I play them offline most of the time because the PvP is garbo but simply saying "just play offline" wont help you much, as you want the coop experience without the bullshit of hide and seek invaders.

People just get really hot and bothered about Souls games when you wanna play them your way, having fun instead of something something true challenge something.


Who needs fun anyway? Fun is for casuals.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
PvP in the souls games have always been a laughable mess. I'll never understand why people want to do PvP when it feels like playing an FPS game with 400 ping. If you want to do something competitive why not just play a fighter, or something like For Honor? Or an FPS, or some card game, it's weird. If you want to just troll others then fine I guess, but there are much better options for anyone that wants to do anything remotely fair and competitive.

I do enjoy helping others on tough bosses though, I'll give it that.

It's kind of a so bad it's good scenario. I think most sensible players know how bad it is, but there is fun to be had in such a mechanic that is amazing in concept and not too good but serviceable enough in execution.

Still, some players do get way too competitive with it.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
OP, are you serious? Invasions favor the invadee BY FAR in DS3.
This perspective blatantly ignores the fact that people legitimately enjoy griefing other players. The design totally and wholly enables invaders to do this. It also completely ignores the fact that invaders and invadees have completely different goals.

Invaders are supposed to kill the host.

Invadees are supposed to play the game.

Invaders lose nothing when they die.

Invadees lose progress and souls when they die.


Even if an invadee kills the invader, whatever resources they used to do so are no longer available for them, and it might end their outing right there. Succeeding in defeating an invader but being forced to go back to the bonfire isnt exactly a "win" in the capacity you're suggesting.

This isnt even touching on the fact that if it tickles the invaders fancy, they can just camp around enemies and wait for the host to either get bored or put themselves at a disadvantage.
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
Pvp in souls has never interested me. I like playing online for the useful and sometimes funny hints left behind by other players. But I hate being invaded. I've got other shit in the world trying to kill me, I don't need another. So fuck it, play offline.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
Why? Dark Souls games are great, but that doesnt mean they're perfect. Not sure how to respond to your anecdotal perception of the playerbase's reception of invasion mechanics or what that has to do with criticism of it.

They might not be perfect, but the invasions were always praised by the playerbase and reviewers alike, being considered as one of the aspects of the multiplayer experience in these games that make them stand out from other games, and that's been the case since Demon's Souls.

Also, not sure how to engage with a throwaway term like "garbage", and since that doesn't give us much to go on in terms of discussion, I merely replied that you are free to play games which you might not perceive as "garbage".
 

Force_XXI

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,188
I usually just suicide or recklessly attack if I can't when not feeling up for 1v1, losing souls doesn't bother me. If co-op I just play regular and just treat him like another enemy. Not a fan of the pvp in these games.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
They might not be perfect, but the invasions were always praised by the playerbase and reviewers alike, being considered as one of the aspects of the multiplayer experience in these games that make them stand out from other games, and that's been the case since Demon's Souls.

Also, not sure how to engage with a throwaway term like "garbage", and since that doesn't give us much to go on in terms of discussion, I merely replied that you are free to play games which you might not perceive as "garbage".
I didnt say the game was garbage. I made it clear that I thought that the invasion mechanics were badly designed, whether or not I used the term garbage is irrelevant. You're struggling pretty hard with this though.

And dont try to pretend that "you dont have to play the game if you dont like it" isn't a dismissal of criticism.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Is that true?

Can you link me to the patch notes for that? Because if thats true that might be the most bullshit nerf I have seen any any game I have ever played.


EDIT: Nevermind found the notes. I had no idea the seed was useless now. That solidifies my point of view even more. Won't even bother trying to use it now. Straight to close app for me I guess. Any moron with even the SLIGHTEST idea of how to navigate the maps can avoid enemies fro 45secs. That is a stupid nerf. Especially considering how limited the Seeds are. Moronic move by the devs.
It's not fucking useless, it's actually somewhat balanced now. You have to use it strategically.

Two hour seed of a tree of giants encouraged shitty gankers who just waited around with a seed active. I think 45 seconds is a bit short, but I sure as hell prefer it to two fucking hours.

Invasions in Dark Souls 3 are much harder than they were in the other games. There are a number of advantages any co-op squad can have against invaders. Are they trying to run away? Ignore them and just make your way to the boss fog. Are they trying to hide in a group of enemies? Use a seed to force them out. Are they trying to waste your time? Way of the Blue summons more help.

Frankly, Dark Souls 3's invasion system has jaded a lot of invaders into taking every advantage they can. So feel free to do the same.
 
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StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
You do you OP, I play them offline most of the time because the PvP is garbo but simply saying "just play offline" wont help you much, as you want the coop experience without the bullshit of hide and seek invaders.

People just get really hot and bothered about Souls games when you wanna play them your way, having fun instead of something something true challenge something.


Who needs fun anyway? Fun is for casuals.
We need that Jim Sterling series here stat. Getting some serious Duke Amiel du H'ardcore vibes here.

Oh noes, players may elect not to participate in shitty time consuming PvP but want to do co-op? Tha would go against precious developer intent and developers never do any wrong. I mean look at that pristine Souls 1 PC port before Durante, Mass Effect Andromeda and plenty of other puzzling dev decisions.

Player Choice is good. All the current system provides is frustration for folks who don't care for it so they don't/won't buy more Souls games.
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
Nah I'm kinda with OP not gonna play peek-a-boo with people invading me to troll. I'll continue on my way and if they're not interestsing in fighting me then I'll DC.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with doing Battle in the midst of enemies and horse shit, but constantly running away and not actually trying to fight will cause me to disconnect.
 

Deleted member 13628

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,098
Not to ember is a disadvantage because if the HP lost and playing offline means no coop and no messages, ghosts.

I like the Bloodborne system much more. Let me decide if I like invasions or not.
That's why invasions hardly happen in BB. Everyone rushes to kill off the bell maiden.

Which is a damn shame because BB's pvp and combat are far superior and more exciting than any DS game. I remember this battle the host and I had with an invader in Micolash's place. We are all just running through the level, jumping around, slashing at each other nonstop. Pure melee, none of that magic BS you get in DS games. The invader actually won in the end but it was still epic.
 

dicetrain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
813
Invasion is an absolute dog shit "feature" of game design that should be completely optional. I stay offline and thus lose all the online features of the game, many of which are good, just to avoid the incredibly stupid intrusion and annoyance of pure toxicity and trolling bullshit that comes from anonymous humans.

Even then you still get the incredibly stupid AI invasions, but at least it's not people wasting their lives trying to make others miserable for absolutely no reason but "it's Dark Souls" and to them that means hard and hard to them apparently means shitty. Of course, even if you have a respectable fight, PvP in this game is just an idiotic roll fest.

If they took all this out but left the other online aspects, it'd be twice as good of a game.

Co-op trivializes the game. To balance it out, you open yourself to invasions. You are saying you want only the advantages of online play and not the disadvantages. Either deal with it or play something else.
And what does it matter? I don't see any leaderboards, and you could just discount people who turn them off from that. It's not like your playthrough is connected to a ranking system as in MOBAs or something.
 
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R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Cuz the game's online mode has rules that you have to play by?

They're fun as hell and only add into the Souls experience. 40% of my DS2 hours are invading in Dragons Aerie. Transforming into eggs and waiting for peeps to walk by you then suddnely back stab them is one hell of a feeling.

It's just sooo good.

I didn't invade much in DS3 since I think the online isn't as good but still I always want and expect others to invade me. Makes the game more fun.
 

dicetrain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
813
They're fun as hell and only add into the Souls experience.

I didn't invade much in DS3 since I think the online isn't as good but still I always want and expect others to invade me. Makes the game more fun.
This is always the main argument I see. Personal enjoyment and therefore why not force everyone into it even if they hate it? Makes no sense.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Personal enjoyment and therefore why not force everyone into it even if they hate it?

Nobody's forcing you into anything.

If you want to play with no invasions go offline. You want to use co op but don't want to get invaded? Too bad.

No risk, no reward. They already give you plenty of options.
 

dicetrain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
813
Nobody's forcing you into anything.

If you want to play with no invasions go offline. You want to use co op but don't want to get invaded? Too bad.

No risk, no reward. They already give you plenty of options.
"Too bad" is not a valid justification of such a design mentality. Many people will and do disagree with it for many reasons and that is simply not a good enough answer.

There are hundreds of ways you can offset for an extra player that don't involve douchey intrusions. Dozens of other games use all sorts of difficulty scaling mechanics every year.
 
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