Dark Side of the Ring - The Last Days of Owen Hart (Must watch for anyone)

[LakeEarth]

I remember finding out about this while switching to the scrambled PPV, which I was switching to occasionally to get a sense of what was happening in the matches. I could barely understand what was happening until I caught JR announcing to the audience that Owen had died and just couldn't process it.

I always wonder if he could've maybe survived if he didn't hit the post. If he just landed flat on the mat, if the ring was shifted over a few feet, then maybe he would've had a chance. I shouldn't even think about such things.

 

[Violence Jack]

There are two Vinces to blame here, VKM is not the one that insisted Owen came down the cable

Fuck them both

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I can't really blame Russo. Harnesses had been used in the past with no issue and he wasn't in charge of the procedure being used for it. Vince McMahon was the one who couldn't be bothered to spend 1% of his millions to find a professional to ensure that Owen wouldn't have to be on the end a rig that was never meant to support the weight of a human being then make the wrestlers finish the show with Owen's blood on the mat where he died.

 

[Professor Beef]

Not a fan of Vince Russo but he had nothing to do with rigging the harness. When he pitched that Owen was going to descend from the rafters he had no reason to believe it was going to go any differently than when the WCW boomers pitched the same thing for sting

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With that logic, neither did McMahon.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

With that logic, neither did McMahon.

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Nah McMahon was ultimately in charge of hiring the guy who did the rigging, so he holds some responsibility. Blaming Russo is like blaming Hollywood screenwriters for accidents that happen on set. Their job is just to think of cool ideas, it's up to other people to make those ideas happen or say "we can't do this safely, maybe we should rethink it"

 

[Bakercat]

I always think of Roddy Piper shooting on Russo and blaming him for Owen's death. Haven't watched the episode yet, but will do so this weekend.

 

[metalfearsolid]

I don't know Russo just thinks of shit and tries to see if stuff works for his own satisfaction. Just look at the Brawl for All episode.

The Owen episode itself says that wrestling was going away from superhero-centric characters to wrestlers showing off their own personality. Yet they give him this Blue Blazer gimmick?

Maybe it was just to humiliate him for being Bret's brother after the Montreal Screwjob even years later.

 

[RealCanadianBro]

That was rough to watch. My god. Just to echo others in here, fuck Vince and the WWE.

 

[Professor Beef]

I don't know Russo just thinks of shit and tries to see if stuff works for his own satisfaction. Just look at the Brawl for All episode.

The Owen episode itself says that wrestling was going away from superhero-centric characters to wrestlers showing off their own personality. Yet they give him this Blue Blazer gimmick?

Maybe it was just to humiliate him for being Bret's brother after the Montreal Screwjob even years later.

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It's because "wrestleguy who is good at wrestling" wasn't popular during the attitude era. Even Steve Blackman, a legitimate weight-lifter and martial artist, needed gimmicks to get over. Mark Henry was an actual strongman, but he didn't start getting popular until he joined Nation of Domination.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

The Owen episode itself says that wrestling was going away from superhero-centric characters to wrestlers showing off their own personality. Yet they give him this Blue Blazer gimmick?

Maybe it was just to humiliate him for being Bret's brother after the Montreal Screwjob even years later.

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In her book, Martha suggests the idea was basically to mock Owen. Owen was vocal about not wanting to be part of any lurid storylines, going out of his way to kill that affair storyline, so they put him back in the Blue Blazer get-up and made him an 80s wrestling hero, to the point that his catchphrase incorporated the old Hogan "say your prayers and eat your vitamins" thing. The entire character was about this guy being goofy and annoying and all of his promos were designed to mock the idea of that sort of hero as patently ridiculous. The idea being that it was intended as a message, this goody-two-shoes attitude you're giving is annoying to us so we're going to give you that as a ring gimmick and play it for laughs about how annoying it is.

If that doesn't sound like a familiar story, I might suggest listening to The Revival on Talk is Jericho talking about the stupid gimmick they were offered by WWE just before they finally got their release semi-recently.

 

[Deleted member 29660]

In her book, Martha suggests the idea was basically to mock Owen. Owen was vocal about not wanting to be part of any lurid storylines, going out of his way to kill that affair storyline, so they put him back in the Blue Blazer get-up and made him an 80s wrestling hero, to the point that his catchphrase incorporated the old Hogan "say your prayers and eat your vitamins" thing. The entire character was about this guy being goofy and annoying and all of his promos were designed to mock the idea of that sort of hero as patently ridiculous. The idea being that it was intended as a message, this goody-two-shoes attitude you're giving is annoying to us so we're going to give you that as a ring gimmick and play it for laughs about how annoying it is.

If that doesn't sound like a familiar story, I might suggest listening to The Revival on Talk is Jericho talking about the stupid gimmick they were offered by WWE just before they finally got their release semi-recently.

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That's definitely the case he was being punished and mocked as a warning to others to not balk at potential storylines as Owen had done. What's crazy is after the screw job Owen was red hot as a babyface, fans were entirely behind him. He was being labeled the sole survivor and the black heart, he could have been pushed as someone trying to bring vengeance down on McMahon and that appeared to be what they were doing at first but nope.

 

[LakeEarth]

That's definitely the case he was being punished and mocked as a warning to others to not balk at potential storylines as Owen had done. What's crazy is after the screw job Owen was red hot as a babyface, fans were entirely behind him. He was being labeled the sole survivor and the black heart, he could have been pushed as someone trying to bring vengeance down on McMahon and that appeared to be what they were doing at first but nope.

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The natural progression of the storyline would've been a feud with HBK, but of course HBK probably put a stop to that immediately.

 

[Striker]

That's definitely the case he was being punished and mocked as a warning to others to not balk at potential storylines as Owen had done. What's crazy is after the screw job Owen was red hot as a babyface, fans were entirely behind him. He was being labeled the sole survivor and the black heart, he could have been pushed as someone trying to bring vengeance down on McMahon and that appeared to be what they were doing at first but nope.

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Feels like they were headed to an Owen-Shawn feud but was nixed late. Shawn claims in an interview Vince changed it, but it was probably Shawn who felt like Owen was beneath him. Triple H got the call instead and they used Owen to put him over. Remember, around the same time the New Age Outlaws were beating up The Road Warriors. Basically, a bunch of more Kliq bullshit.

metalfearsolid - Owen rejected an affair storyline with Debra and Jarrett. They used this as an opportunity to use him as a joke character, hence Blue Blazer.

 

[metalfearsolid]

Ah yes I remember now that was mentioned in episode as well.

 

[Deleted member 29660]

This only recently popped, bound to be a must listen.

 

[djplaeskool]

I just finished watching the Benoit episodes an hour ago.
I don't know if I'm ready for this right now...

 

[Brandino]

I don't have anything to add about the documentary, haven't seen it yet. However, my cousin was at this show. It haunted him for awhile

 

[Locus]

I haven't watched wrestling in 15+ years but i have had a look at this series as i was big into wrestling at the time(and was watching live) and this last episode was trying to smear the wwe.

Vince and Kevin made the right decision to continue the show, this is show business and the show must go on especially in the climate that they were in at the time(monday night wars). If this happened to the rock or stone cold then yeah stop the show but owen hart never drew a dime. The show and the wwe never missed a beat during and after this. sorry to say but that the harsh truth. Bottom line is everything. Owen hart was lost in the shuffle and didnt have the personality to stand out in the edgy environment. Work rate means nothing, Drawing means everything(at least it did when i last watched).

Martha and her kid have done well to recover from this. Bad situation all round.

 

[Deleted member 37011]

It's sad knowing Owen wanted out of wrestling. Heard stories he wanted to be teacher or a firefighter.

 

[Foot]

I haven't watched wrestling in 15+ years but i have had a look at this series as i was big into wrestling at the time(and was watching live) and this last episode was trying to smear the wwe.

Vince and Kevin made the right decision to continue the show, this is show business and the show must go on especially in the climate that they were in at the time(monday night wars). If this happened to the rock or stone cold then yeah stop the show but owen hart never drew a dime. The show and the wwe never missed a beat during and after this. sorry to say but that the harsh truth. Bottom line is everything. Owen hart was lost in the shuffle and didnt have the personality to stand out in the edgy environment. Work rate means nothing, Drawing means everything(at least it did when i last watched).

Martha and her kid have done well to recover from this. Bad situation all round.

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Jesus Christ, get a load of this guy.

 

[Professor Beef]

If this happened to the rock or stone cold then yeah stop the show but owen hart never drew a dime.

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You're talking about someone's death here, what in the actual fuck am I reading.

 

[Big-E]

I haven't watched wrestling in 15+ years but i have had a look at this series as i was big into wrestling at the time(and was watching live) and this last episode was trying to smear the wwe.

Vince and Kevin made the right decision to continue the show, this is show business and the show must go on especially in the climate that they were in at the time(monday night wars). If this happened to the rock or stone cold then yeah stop the show but owen hart never drew a dime. The show and the wwe never missed a beat during and after this. sorry to say but that the harsh truth. Bottom line is everything. Owen hart was lost in the shuffle and didnt have the personality to stand out in the edgy environment. Work rate means nothing, Drawing means everything(at least it did when i last watched).

Martha and her kid have done well to recover from this. Bad situation all round.

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No you stop the show. A man just died. They needed to do a proper investigation. It is incredibly callous to think that because money is important that it trumps all things. You have Cornette and JR on the show, two of the most pro wrestling culture and showbusiness people you can have, any they say the same thing.

 

[bonch00ski]

I haven't watched wrestling in 15+ years but i have had a look at this series as i was big into wrestling at the time(and was watching live) and this last episode was trying to smear the wwe.

Vince and Kevin made the right decision to continue the show, this is show business and the show must go on especially in the climate that they were in at the time(monday night wars). If this happened to the rock or stone cold then yeah stop the show but owen hart never drew a dime. The show and the wwe never missed a beat during and after this. sorry to say but that the harsh truth. Bottom line is everything. Owen hart was lost in the shuffle and didnt have the personality to stand out in the edgy environment. Work rate means nothing, Drawing means everything(at least it did when i last watched).

Martha and her kid have done well to recover from this. Bad situation all round.

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And the winner of "dumbest take of the day" goes to.....

 

[Locus]

No you stop the show. A man just died. They needed to do a proper investigation. It is incredibly callous to think that because money is important that it trumps all things. You have Cornette and JR on the show, two of the most pro wrestling culture and showbusiness people you can have, any they say the same thing.

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In the business environment that they were in - yes it does. Well the 3 most important guys at the time, Vince McMahon, Vince russo and Kevin dunn all thought otherwise and were proven right. Vince Mamahon from the screwjob onwards till about 2001 was spot on in nearly everything he did.

Owen wasnt a big enough star to stop a show for. Its sad but thats the reality. He never drew a dime.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Haven't got round to watching this yet but heard great (or terrible depending on your outlook) things about it.

One thing that did rub me the wrong way was this tweet from JR.

It just kind of feels like his matter of fact way of saying never is really shitty. Like he is such a professional that even though someone died on the show, he wouldn't even consider stopping.

It doesn't help that many of the replies are people praising him for being such a professional. The fact the show went on as if someone didn't just die should have resulted in criminal charges against Mcmahon.

I don't know, maybe its meant to be read in a remorseful way and I'm reading it wrong but the fact he isn't any more explicit about that makes me think he is too gutless to say anything bad about Mcmahon and that situation.

 

[Big-E]

In the business environment that they were in - yes it does. Well the 3 most important guys at the time, Vince McMahon, Vince russo and Kevin dunn all thought otherwise and were proven right. Vince Mamahon from the screwjob onwards till about 2001 was spot on in nearly everything he did.

Owen wasnt a big enough star to stop a show for. Its sad but thats the reality. He never drew a dime.

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Drawing doesn't matter. There is no logic to what you are saying. A MAN DIED IN THE RING. His blood was still on the mat. You make it sound like this PPV was the be all end all event that won Vince the Monday Night Wars. Are you insane? Do you really think that showing the respect to Owen, to his wife, to his children, to the other wrestlers and fans in attendance was a thing that would sink the company? What the fuck does the screwjob even matter in this?

 

[bonch00ski]

In the business environment that they were in - yes it does. Well the 3 most important guys at the time, Vince McMahon, Vince russo and Kevin dunn all thought otherwise and were proven right. Vince Mamahon from the screwjob onwards till about 2001 was spot on in nearly everything he did.

Owen wasnt a big enough star to stop a show for. Its sad but thats the reality. He never drew a dime.

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dude just stop

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

In the business environment that they were in - yes it does. Well the 3 most important guys at the time, Vince McMahon, Vince russo and Kevin dunn all thought otherwise and were proven right. Vince Mamahon from the screwjob onwards till about 2001 was spot on in nearly everything he did.

Owen wasnt a big enough star to stop a show for. Its sad but thats the reality. He never drew a dime.

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Congratulations on lacking any ounce of empathy and for being a heartless selfish piece of trash

 

[Locus]

Drawing doesn't matter. There is no logic to what you are saying. A MAN DIED IN THE RING. His blood was still on the mat. You make it sound like this PPV was the be all end all event that won Vince the Monday Night Wars. Are you insane? Do you really think that showing the respect to Owen, to his wife, to his children, to the other wrestlers and fans in attendance was a thing that would sink the company? What the fuck does the screwjob even matter in this?

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Vince was showing respect to the fans by continuing. I and my friends at the time were glad he did. The show/business never missed a beat at all

And drawing is everything bro with any issues in the wrestling business. If this happened to the rock would the show have been stopped? Exactly.

 

[Nairume]

this is show business and the show must go on

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The ring was actually damaged from the fall. That alone should have been reason enough to stop the show in order to keep other performers from getting injured if you are going to overlook the tackiness of continuing something after somebody fucking fell to their death in front of the entire audience.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Vince was showing respect to the fans by continuing. I and my friends at the time were glad he did. The show/business never missed a beat at all

And drawing is everything bro with any issues in the wrestling business. If this happened to the rock would the show have been stopped? Exactly.

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You're just digging a hole and going even further. You're being so incredibly heartless

 

[Big-E]

Vince was showing respect to the fans by continuing. I and my friends at the time were glad he did. The show/business never missed a beat at all

And drawing is everything bro with any issues in the wrestling business. If this happened to the rock would the show have been stopped? Exactly.

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You think your logic extends to a top draw that they would have stopped? Really? Your argument is that making money is more important and no one is above the business. You just used the Screwjob as an example of the genius of Vince and that is something where it was shown that the business is above all. Your take is trash. And guess what, business wise, it cost Vince at least 18 million dollars for deliberately getting in the way of this and fucking this up so I doubt you can say that this decision actually made financial sense given that they most likely would not have lost 18 + million dollars.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Imagine being such a low piece of shit that you applaud someone like Vince for his actions after forcing a man to do a stunt he never wanted to do and dying.

 

[Locus]

You're just digging a hole and going even further. You're being so incredibly heartless

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Argee to disagree then.

Vince was proven right imo. Vince has always been ruthless. From the start when he crushed the territories . It is what it is. He marches on. A guy like owen hart wasnt going to stop him.

 

[bonch00ski]

Vince was showing respect to the fans by continuing. I and my friends at the time were glad he did. The show/business never missed a beat at all

And drawing is everything bro with any issues in the wrestling business. If this happened to the rock would the show have been stopped? Exactly.

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Yeah you're clearly in troll mode here at this point.

 

[Tendo]

Vince was showing respect to the fans by continuing. I and my friends at the time were glad he did. The show/business never missed a beat at all

And drawing is everything bro with any issues in the wrestling business. If this happened to the rock would the show have been stopped? Exactly.

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When did Russo get an ERA account?

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Argee to disagree then.

Vince was proven right imo. Vince has always been ruthless. From the start when he crushed the territories . It is what it is. He marches on. A guy like owen hart wasnt going to stop him.

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Vince failed upwards and he's done so much heinous shit. I can not believe anyone defends him in 2020

 

[Nairume]

Argee to disagree then.

Vince was proven right imo. Vince has always been ruthless. From the start when he crushed the territories . It is what it is. He marches on. A guy like owen hart wasnt going to stop him.

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I'd ask you how much Vince is paying you to astroturf here, but that would require him to actually compensate people.

 

[Professor Fate]

He never drew a dime.

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You keep saying this, like it's actually what matters. Good lord.

 

[XaviConcept]

until I watched this documentary I never realised they worked around the blood and a divot as the ring floor had broken.

its sick.

and what front row fan would stay, having witnessed a violent death happen just a few feet away?

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If I recall, the blood was from something/someone else

Not like it matters cause visually people made the connection, even if unrelated, but still

 

[Locus]

You think your logic extends to a top draw that they would have stopped? Really? Your argument is that making money is more important and no one is above the business. You just used the Screwjob as an example of the genius of Vince and that is something where it was shown that the business is above all. Your take is trash. And guess what, business wise, it cost Vince at least 18 million dollars for deliberately getting in the way of this and fucking this up so I doubt you can say that this decision actually made financial sense given that they most likely would not have lost 18 + million dollars.

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By the time the settlement happened Vince was rolling in it , as his proven draws like the rock and stone cold, made him and his company insanely wealthy. Trust me the wwf didnt feel it one inch buddy.

And listen its screwed up that this shit happened. Its legitablly tragic and she should have got a much bigger settlement but it is what it is.

 

[Big-E]

Argee to disagree then.

Vince was proven right imo. Vince has always been ruthless. From the start when he crushed the territories . It is what it is. He marches on. A guy like owen hart wasnt going to stop him.

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Your take that Vince is right is just dumb. Show me how refusing to stop this pay per view won him the Monday Night Wars. Like Jesus Christ, this was a fucking In Your House show practically. I don't know what to tell you if you point to Over the Edge continuing after Owen died as the defining moment that sent WWF over the edge against WCW. I can entertain saying Vince is a genius. But your argument that continuing on is this definitive moment in the formation of the dominance of the WWF is fucking lunacy. Vince coughed up 18+ million to Martha and whatever legal fees fighting this thing. Vince lost money in this.

By the time the settlement happened Vince was rolling in it , as his proven draws like the rock and stone cold, made him and his company insanely wealthy. Trust me the wwf didnt feel it one inch buddy.

And listen its screwed up that this shit happened. Its legitablly tragic and she should have got a much bigger settlement but it is what it is.

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You keep mentioning the Rock and Stone Cold and that is irrelevant. This pay per view didn't send them over. This pay per view is not some defining moment to the victory of Vince McMahon. You are putting an insane amount of importance over Vince's decision like he won the war on that night deciding to have the show go on. Nothing about that decision had anything to do with winning WCW. Do you think people and fans thought that we have to respect the WWF now because they continued on with the show after Owen died?

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Imagine being such a low piece of shit that you applaud someone like Vince for his actions after forcing a man to do a stunt he never wanted to do and dying.

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WWE fans sadly rush to defend Vince on this issue, got into arguments online before and every time it's some bullshit defence of the show must go on.

I even brought up about how if a football player died on the pitch the match would stop and they would rush in to say this has happened and just continued to worship Vince.

God I fucking hate Mcmahon, he has helped create a whole mass of people that will defend any horrific action in the name of what's good for wrestling.

 

[Locus]

I'd ask you how much Vince is paying you to astroturf here, but that would require him to actually compensate people.

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All i know is Vince was fire during this point and was making great move after great move.

When did Russo get an ERA account?

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Russo Was also spot on during this whole thing. He tried to actually make owen interesting by giving him ideas for characters but owen shot them down as he has no charisma and wad dull as dishwater. True to form for a guy that couldn't draw in the most profitable era ever.

 

[Locus]

Vince failed upwards and he's done so much heinous shit. I can not believe anyone defends him in 2020

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Havent kept with him in the last decade plus but during that period he was nearly flawless. WWF was mainstream. I lived it.

 

[Nairume]

All i know is Vince was fire during this point and was making great move after great move.

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Fucking christ, not everything is about business and money.

A man died doing a stunt that he shouldn't have been made to do. His death broke the fucking ring and made it dangerous for wrestlers to even continue safely working, not to mention the trauma seeing that caused to people. Stop the fucking match. Eat the cost of refunding the event. Be a fucking human being.

But the overall lesson of this season of Dark Side of the Ring is that Vince is incapable of doing that.

Havent kept with him in the last decade plus but during that period he was nearly flawless. WWF was mainstream. I lived it.

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For somebody who "lived it" but hasn't "kept up with it", you sure are showing your ass a lot by trying to defend something you badly misremember what happened at the time and have very little genuine understanding of what it's been like since.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Havent kept with him in the last decade plus but during that period he was nearly flawless. WWF was mainstream. I lived it.

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Wrestling was mainstream not because of Vince but because of WCW

Vince didn't kill WCW, Time Warner and Bischoff killed WCW

You're a fucking dork who is trolling by downplaying the tragic death of a wrestler who was forced into something he didn't want.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

At this point, I think season 3 should be entirely focused on Vince.

Easily enough horrible content out there to do it and if there is any justice it will bring extra attention to what a disgusting piece of shit the man is.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

If I recall, the blood was from something/someone else

Not like it matters cause visually people made the connection, even if unrelated, but still

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Nope. Owen's blood.

There was a fake blood spot used in the preshow and one of the stains was from that, but some of the blood is in fact Owen's. It's confirmed in the police report.

 

[Big-E]

Havent kept with him in the last decade plus but during that period he was nearly flawless. WWF was mainstream. I lived it.

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We all lived it. Business decisions don't excuse someone from being a piece of shit. Divorce yourself from the carny bullshit. You still haven't shown how this decision was a reason why WWF won against WCW. Brawl for All was pushed by Vince, was he flawless there too? You can mark for Vince the character all you want but look past the carny bullshit and evaluate the person Vince McMahon on his decisions as a person.

 

[Dbltap]

Argee to disagree then.

Vince was proven right imo. Vince has always been ruthless. From the start when he crushed the territories . It is what it is. He marches on. A guy like owen hart wasnt going to stop him.

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Please leave this thread. It's obvious what you're trying to do. I don't appreciate it, nor do the other members.